Legitimate Controversy Over the Russian-Ukrainian WarSpencer J. Quinn
In times of great stress, allies must focus on what binds them together. Allies will remain allies if what binds them together is more important than what could break them apart. If allies can agree on what these things are, then all else can be dismissed as mere distractions or treated as issues of legitimate controversy. If allies cannot agree on what these things are, then they cease to be allies. For the Dissident Right to continue on its path to political relevance, it would therefore be best for it to codify such in-group/out-group distinctions now that we have entered a time of stress with regards to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
So what do all Dissident Rightists have in common regarding recent events in Ukraine? Certainly not the fervent desire to keep Western boots off the ground. I know such a statement will raise a few eyebrows, so let me rephrase the question: What do all Dissident Rightists and only Dissident Rightists have in common regarding recent events in Ukraine? When put like this, eschewing a hot war between Russia and the West is not the correct answer. People Left, Right, and center also don’t want a hot war. For me to say, “Not one drop of American blood should be shed to save Ukraine” will hardly distinguish me from many of my political enemies on the Left, to say nothing of the millions of normies on the mainstream Right. So, clearly, such a mantra — while certainly correct — will do little to prevent infighting within the Dissident Right. The same could be said about not wanting the conflict to escalate into a third world war, or (God help us) a nuclear one. These concerns go beyond the political and, while perfectly valid, are irrelevant to the question of what binds the Dissident Right together.
A better answer points to our racial identity as white Westerners. Remember the old joke about the Lone Ranger and Tonto, when they found themselves surrounded by hostile Indians? The Lone Ranger says, “Tonto, we are surrounded by hostile Indians!” to which Tonto replies, “Whatchyoo mean ‘we,’ white man?”
Western political elites, who are in thrall to non-whites, are telling white Westerners that we are being surrounded by hordes of hostile Russians. The appropriate response should be, “Whatchyoo mean ‘we’?” Anything else would countenance feeding more white bodies into the meat grinder of an already hot white-on-white war. Contributing to this war in any way is basically a lose-lose proposition for whites everywhere. Recent history alone should demonstrate that there is no “we.” How could there be when the same people who are rattling sabers with onanistic fury are the ones who stole the 2020 election, put the January 6 protestors in gulags, support anti-white Critical Race Theory, encourage non-white mass immigration, and look the other way when Black Lives Matter and antifa set fire to cities? Is there any reason at all to have truck with such people?
This reduces the controversy over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, from a Dissident Right perspective, to the following questions: Was the invasion justified because it aims to save white Eastern Europe from the pernicious influence of a degenerate, anti-white West? Or was the invasion unjustified because it hinders Ukrainian ethnonationalism through internecine white-on-white warfare? Or, to put it a different way, do you see the war as necessary for white interests, and thus best kept limited and brief? Or do you see the war as harmful to white interests and therefore not necessary at all?
This is what I call legitimate controversy. A person could answer yes to any of these questions and still be part of the Dissident Right. We should not punish such differences of opinion with nastiness or ad hominems. Dissidents should not tear each other up over this as long as the dissidents in question are working for the greater good of whites and the civilizations we have created.
As for my take on all this, I have to be very careful, because there is so much I don’t know and events are moving very quickly. What I can offer, however, is a way of thinking about the conflict that has been tested by history and may prove useful.
During the Russian Civil War, which took place between 1917 and 1922, essentially three sides were at odds with each other: Ukrainian nationalists, Russian nationalists, and Soviet internationalists. Of course, it’s not as simple as that, but it’s fairly accurate as far as basic rundowns go. The Ukrainians and Russians saw the Soviets as globalist conquerors; the Ukrainians saw the Russians as imperialist oppressors; the Russians saw the Ukrainians as separatist terrorists; and the Soviets saw both the Russians and Ukrainians as anti-Semitic nativists. It should be no surprise that the Russian Civil War had a death count in the millions.
Fast-forward one century, and you have similar forces at work today, with NATO replacing the Red Army as the internationalist wing of the conflict. Another major difference is that Ukrainian nationalists, as exemplified by the Right-wing Svoboda Party, have expressed interest in joining NATO. In the past decade they’ve also worked to some degree within the NATO-approved Ukrainian government. Since all this is taking place in Russia’s sphere of influence, it makes sense that the globalists and the Ukrainians view Russian imperialism (or nationalism, depending on whom you talk to) as the greater threat.
It should be noted that many Ukrainian nationalists, such as Stepan Bandera, did cooperate with the Germans during the Second World War (and after the Holodomor, who could blame them?). These are the people many Ukrainian nationalists lionize today. So when Vladimir Putin mentions “de-Nazifying” Ukraine, I believe this is what he’s talking about. Still, having had their nationalism effectively squashed throughout the twentieth century and co-opted by globalists in the twenty-first, it’s impossible not to empathize with the plight of Ukrainian nationalists.
On the other hand, given the anti-Russian nature of many Ukrainian nationalists as well as that of NATO itself, Putin has a point when insisting that the entry of Ukraine into NATO threatens Russian security. Most of eastern Ukraine is populated by ethnic Russians, so he is right to be concerned about them as well. But on the other other hand, Putin has suppressed ethnonationalists in his own country, so who knows whose interests he really represents?
The situation is basically a mess. But from a Dissident Right perspective, it seems that the only people here with legitimate interests are the Ukrainian nationalists and the Russians who wish to thwart the encroachment of globalism and which is, ultimately, anti-white. It’s tragic that two such noble goals have to meet head-on like this, but dissidents should not excommunicate each other while arguing over which goal is nobler. They both serve the interests of whites in one way or another, and thus the topic of the Russian-Ukrainian War should be able to encompass a wide range of opinions.
Prior to the invasion, I would have stood against war. But now that it has happened, the best scenario we can hope for, aside from a low death count and a speedy conclusion, would be for the Ukrainian nationalists to work with the Russians to expel NATO while splitting the country in two à la Czechoslovakia. That way, the Ukrainians can get their ethnostate, the Russians can get their security, and the globalists can go to hell.
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I couldn’t agree more 👏👏👏👏👏
All right! Wow, I am dazzled!
Keep the good work, soon you’ll be a happy Tonto among angry mestizos and gangstas heavily armed and motivated by Uncle Ivan, you know classic grievances, no big deal. I’m a sure that they will love your jokes.
No one wants American soldiers in Ukraine, Ukrainians just want American guns to defend their country from the invading “Russians” (as a matter of fact more Chechens, Dagestanies, Ingushetians, Tuvanians, you name it). To defend their country after all nuclear powers guaranteed their integrity and sovereignty. Including US and Russia (that Budapest Memorandum if you mind).
I see, unity by division. Great idea!
C’mon, admit it. You’re a stooge for the author, aren’t you?
So you’re not a twit, but a half-wit.
I enjoyed your article, Spencer. I love the Lone Ranger jokes. The one you told isn’t the only one; there are other funny ones as well.
I have often heard about Putin suppressing White Nationalists (although you used the term “Ethnonationalists”) with no details. So, could you please give a Who, What, Where and How on this? Similarly, although you don’t say it, I often heard that “Putin is just bad” with no details about what he did that was bad. There is an article by a guy that I read on LewRockwell.com named Boyd Cathey who wrote an article which debunks many of the criticisms of Putin. In my opinion, the greatest writer in the 20th century, Aleksander Solzhenitsyn, praised Putin before he died.
Hi Jud. Greg mentions how Putin has imprisoned Russian ethnonationalists in his latest live stream. Here is one source:
CC had an interesting take on this issue 8 years ago as well. The comments are worth reading. Thanks.
Thanks Spencer. I liked both articles but the second article especially presented a lot of information about Russia and Putin that I did not know about.
Lukashenko unleashed Muslim migrants into Poland, certainly with Putin’s approval, which makes them both race traitors
Good article. The right is divided as usual while the left marches along in lockstep.
I don’t think Russia is bad for nationalists anymore. Things have changed in the past 10 years. What do you think Anatoly Karlin’s article titled “Russia’s Nationalist Turn?”
The best take on this is from Anatoly Karlin ( a Russian nationalist ) who wrote Russia’s nationalist turn at Unz review Regathering the Russian lands at substack. He’s been spot on re the conflict and Putin essentially adopting many of the nationalist movement positions over time.
He would be a terrific guest
I’ve heard conflicting accounts of what’s going on, but I feel Russia was more or less forced to halt the expansion of nato to its doorstep, similar to how Putin reacted to the invasion of South Ossetia. I hope the conflict will be fast and decisive, without serious loss of life on either side. From what I’ve read and heard on radio derb, Ukraine has been undergoing a demographic collapse with plummeting birth rate, similar to what Russia experienced prior to the ascent of Putin. I hope Putin will reverse this trend in Ukraine. It’s worth a shot, no pun intended!
Ukrainians, who wouldn’t, simply want to get rid from the Russian yoke and live their lives freed from “Russian” mobsters, killers and spies. Now the bandy midget feels “threatened’, the poor thing. So he is bombing the civilians.
I see you believe this NATO thing.
It is incorrect due to what the Russians did AFTER 1990 and until 1998 in the neighboring countries. What they did in Romania and Yugoslavia. other countries too.
You know what happened in Yugoslavia. You know Yeltsin’s role in that, right?
In Romania the Russian “tourists” and the local agents imposed an USSR friendly govern and started the most gross provocations, generated the worst exodus in the country’s history, pushed the country toward a civil and inter-ethnic war, created an economic chaos and destruction paralleled only by the great plunder after the WW2. By 1998, even their agents in Romania understood that they risk execution or an international tribunal and consequently disappeared or switched sides.
This is why every sane person in Europe and US understood why NATO should extend as far and as fast as possible, the alternative being an atomic weapons Wild Wild East marked by massacres and endemic corruption.
That’s why Ukraine wants NATO and EU. A successful Ukraine is the end for Russian psychopathy and grandeur delusions.
Are you by chance Eastern European?
Yes, and the Russians did the Holodomor.
While it is true that the frontmen-fallmen were pretty much diverse, the muscle was as Russian as can be.
Vsevolod Balitsky – Russian colonist born in Ukraine – Ukraine NKVD (OGPU) chief.
Pavel Postyshev – Russian colonist – responsible party chief in Ukraine.
Vasily Blokhin – Russian – NKVD chief executioner- he executed even kids for stealing a loaf of bread; the most prolific mass killer known – more than 50 000 victims executed.
Mikhail Frinovsky – Russian – chief of the Border Troops and later of Internal Troops for the NKVD (the genocide doesn’t happen by itself).
It is a known fact that soviet Ukrainian units were moved into Russia and Central Asia, while Russian units were moved to Ukraine.
All the first five marshals of USSR were Russians (Tukhachevsky, Budyonny, Voroshilov, Blyukher, and Yegorov). They were leading the soviet army. I don’t think that the plundering of the entire food reserve in Ukraine was done without the Army. Nor I can imagine that Ukrainian conscripts were sent to plunder and shoot their parents.
But who was the “brain”?
Vyacheslav Molotov (Scriabin) – Russian – he oversaw the agricultural collectivisation as premier of the USSR between 19 December 1930 – 6 May 1941.
Valerian Kuibyshev – Russian – Director of Gosplan (State Planning Committee and Deputy Premier of the Soviet Union between 10 November 1930 – May 14, 1934)
Mikhail Vladimirsky – Russian – Chairman of Central Auditing Commission of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union – party disclipline… if you know what I mean. This one had a long fulfilling life.
Utterly shocking to learn that there were some Russians in the security apparatus of a state where they were the overwhelming majority.
Oh dear, not some but an overhelming number. The Russians did the Holodomor. What part you don’t understand.
Russians killed Ukrainians by the millions. The Russians, not some mean extraterestrials.
If you look at Russian histories, for 300 years she was “more or less forced” to build one of the largest empires in history.
Both Russia and Ukraine have terrible demographic problems, which makes a war between them doubly absurd and tragic.
That would be like holding Italy responsible for the Roman Empire at this point.
It is not, not by any measure.
Roman Empire was everything that Russian Empire never was. Roman Empire built roads, castles, villas, bathrooms, even schools, holding the savages away for sometime. Roman Empire was meritocratic. Anyone could become Emperor if he proved his virtue, competence, courage, wisdom. Russian Empire invaded and exterminated its neighbors. After plundering and destroying everything they moved away only to come back when things were getting better. (My country was invaded/occupied by Russia 13 times in the last 300 years. You should ask a Polish – they have an even worse experience).
Italy stopped invading other people long time ago. Mussolini is a a mere outlier in more than 1500 years. Italians brought the Renaissance, and that is enough to forgive a lot. Instead, there are almost no Russian ruler not involved in extremely brutal wars, famines, genocide, savage killings, betrayals. The bigger the Russian ruler the higher the body count.
Italy is simply beautiful, no details needed here. At least you learn something from it. You don’t like, no problem, Italy will not come after you. Russia is like a crazy widow that keeps robbing and killing her husbands, tortures the kids, cheats and get drunk. When every man runs for his life, she feels she is not understood nor loved as she deserves, so everybody has to die (“what is the world good for if there is no place for Russia”). She brags with palaces built not from love but from envy, expensive imitations to inspire fear and heaviness.
The problem is that Russia is fighting the anti-White Nato which seeks to destroy pride in White history and accomplishments, push degeneracy and miscegination on Whites. If by some miracle Ukraine won, they would quickly be absorbed into degenerate Western culture and their sons will be wearing dresses and daughters bearing negro children in a few years. It’s impossible to support the West nowadays.
This is just silly. Poland, Hungary, and the Baltic States are in NATO. They have not been ruined. In fact, they are pushing back against the worst ideas coming from the West.
Your argument is basically, “Hey Ukraine, remember the people who brought you the Gulag and the Holodomor? They’re back to save you from Drag Queen Story Hour.”
It comes off as insulting and entitled. It is repellent to equate what these countries suffered at the hands of Russia in the past to getting our YouTube channels demonetized and our PayPal accounts canceled.
Your argument is basically, “Hey Ukraine, remember the people who brought you the Gulag and the Holodomor? They’re back to save you from Drag Queen Story Hour.”
You are blaming the Russians for that? Lenin was an unholy Tatar-Jew hybrid, Stalin was Georgian. Khrushchev and Brezhnev were both of mixed or unclear Russo-Ukrainian ethnicity. Andropov was the first unambiguous ethnic Russian to rule the USSR, assuming that he wasn’t Jewish (claimed that he was merely adopted by Jews). The original Bolshevik Party was run by Jews and supported by Latvian Riflemen. The Red Army was founded by a Jew. The Cheka was founded by a Pole. The Bolsheviks were the party of Russia’s 1910s equivalent of urbanite bugmen in Petrograd and resentful minorities that hated Russians. Much like the woke types today.
As for the Holodomor, it was order by the above Georgian and carried out mostly by Jews. And it was no different than the genocide of Russians carried out through the same method in the Twenties. The Soviet leaders even gave a huge parcel of land to the Ukrainian SSR in the 20s because they wanted to encourage division among the hated and feared Slavs they had enslaved.
No one suffered more horrors under communism than the Russians themselves. It is sad that many of them have come down with a sort of Stockholm syndrome over the entire thing, but that is rapidly fading among the younger generation, and Putin wants to throw out the Soviet legacy other than WWII. I really wish that the Russians would re-examine WWII, but for them it is a nationalistic and militaristic narrative, not the Jewish victimhood narrative that we are fed in the West.
Stop blaming Russians for the horrors that they were the victims of more than anyone.
Yes, I blame the Russians — and more precisely, the ruling elite and the Russian “system” that creates and propagates them — for the horrors of Communism, for several reasons.
First and foremost, the reason why the USSR’s government was full of non-Russians is that the Russian empire conquered those lands. There were virtually no Jews in the Russian empire, for instance, before the partitions of Poland. Non-Russians enjoyed positions of power over Russians and conquered lands under the Empire, under the USSR, and under the current Russian Federation because that is the way of all imperial systems. To point to powerful Germans and Swedes, Jews and Georgians, Uzbeks and Ukrainians in Russia and say “See, it is not a Russian government” is disingenuous. It is precisely a Russian government, because Russia is an empire, and that’s the kind of government empires have.
Second, Bolshevism was heavy with non-Russians from the start, including Jews, but Russians were still important players from the start, and by the 1930s, Bolshevism became less ethnically Jewish and more ethnically Russian. Solzhenitsyn tells this story Two-Hundred Years Together. In the post-Stalin era, ethnic quotas were actually put in place to reduce massive Jewish overrepresentation in certain institutions. Even though these policies still allowed massive objective Jewish privilege, Jews still felt oppressed and betrayed and started agitating against the system and for emigration. Since Russians were the largest ethnic group in the empire and Moscow was the historical Russian capital, the communist regime took on a specifically ethnic Russian cast.
Third, Putin’s rise to power, the Russian Federation has built and defended monuments to the Red Army and defended Stalin and his crimes. One of Putin’s first acts as President in 2000 was to call a meeting at Stalin’s Dacha at Kuntsevo, sit down at Stalin’s desk, and tell the Russian oligarchs who is boss. Asserting state power over those looters was a good thing. But he could have chosen any number of other role models besides Stalin. You may want to scapegoat Jews and Georgians for the horrors of the USSR, but they were only there because of the Russian imperial system, and Putin now owns that system, including the USSR and its horrors. You might want to claim that Russia has changed since Communism, and, of course, it has in many ways. But Putin insists on continuities, and we can’t blame Russia’s neighbors for taking him at his word.
The bottom line: Russia has always been an empire, and with Empires come multiculturalism and multicultural ruling elites. Ukrainians suffered a lot at the hands of the Russian machine in the past, and they have no reason to think that it has changed. Ukrainians don’t fear or hate ordinary Russians, who are pretty much all victims of the same system. But they definitely hate the Russian system. This is why it is reasonable for Ukrainians and other captive people to want into NATO to keep the Russians out.
The people on the right who attempt to absolve the Russian system by claiming that its crimes under Communism were historical aberrations caused by foreigners, especially Jews, are ignoring the imperial nature of the Russian system before, during, and after the USSR.
@gj: Excuse me, DR.gj. Yes, but were “Russians” per se responsible for the gulag and holodomar, or were the same sort of globalists who now want Ukraine to join NATO? I see Putin’s Russia as a reaction to the communist regime, more akin to Tsarist Russia.
Yes. The Russians are guilty of Gulag and Holodomor. Stalin gave the orders and the Russians were all to happy to oblige.
Take a look at the list of USSR marshalls. How many non Russians do you see there?
What nationality had the soviet soldiers that plundered Ukraine?
What nationality were the NKVD executioners?
Who pulled the trigger so to speak? The Russian people. None other. And it doesn’t seem that they have the slightest moral qualm for it. More than that they say “we killed and tortured you, but your immortal soul is saved, so don’t worry.”. With variants, of course. “We killed you but we saved you from the Turks, or Nazies, or Americans”. More than that. They say “it is not true what you see with your eyes, it is what we are telling to you”.
How crazy is that?
The Russians should stop saving anyone and take a deep look into their own borscht.
@gj: well, ok but if you start listing historical counterfactuals, then you would have to lay the same criticism at the feet of the British empire, the French, and oh just about every European country over a certain size. Germany also took half of Poland. They are all guilty of colonialism and imperialism! And guess what, you now have become a guilt ridden anti white leftist!
So in your logic if the Brits did a genocide (which one?) the Russians are entitled to genocide European peoples (as they did for the last millennia).
So it is you who are disingenuous here.
Ramzan, if your argument is that Russia is to blame because the foot soldiers were mostly Russian, then by the same logic you ought to hate us Western Europeans for white genocide.
You sound exactly the same as the antiwhite decolonisation activists here in Canada, except with Russians instead of white Anglos as your villains. I could sympathise if your anger and hatred was directed at communism, but it is not; it is directed at the Russian Empire and even the modern Russian people.
I could not care less about your petty Eastern European ethnic intraracial squabbles. As an Anglo-Canadian I hear the same sort of whining from nonwhites angry that our Empire won and they lost. After reading your comments I am a lot more sympathetic to the Russians than I was before.
And you make me sick with your perverted logic.
Yes, some people are autohtonous, have their country and culture and are perfectly happy without some imperial invaders to destroy everything in sight every 30 years for the last 300 years.
If you really are a Canadian you are a total disgrace. You are not a GloboHomo, you are a GloboPunk and a GloboPrick.
But I suspect you are a paid Russian troll, with nothing else to do to make his pathetic living. Working is hard for the GloboGopnick.
Either case you are disgusting.
We will fight!
Unfortunately, Ukraine nationalists are pawns in this game. Anything that threatens the USD global reserve currency status is a benefit to all nationalists long term. The only thing backing up globohomo and the USD is military threats. The hysterical reaction from US and allies has nothing to do with Ukraine and everything to do with what happens when Eurasia no longer needs or is forced to trade in USD
Hi Alex. Good take. I agree NATO is using the Ukrainian nationalists as pawns. As I see NATO as the worst of all evils in that part of the world, I hope that the Ukrainian nationalists and the Russians can unite and sort their differences out later. If they had done this a century ago the Soviets might not have won the Russian Civil War. Let’s hope they can learn from their (and our) mistakes.
Anything that threatens the USD global reserve currency status is a benefit to all nationalists long term. The only thing backing up globohomo and the USD is military threats. [Alex]
That’s a tough issue to assess. One has to try to see the totality of individual (or at least sub-group) interests that comprise “society” when contemplating sweeping changes or pronouncements. I’m not sure at all that the rise of alternatives to USD reserve status (USDRS) would redound to the benefit of whites or white nationalists (it might – or might not – help European domestic ethnonationalists). I’d like to see that assertion fleshed out.
I’m pretty certain, however, that the loss of USDRS would be a disaster for Americans, very much including white Americans. USDRS is a huge advantage for us, and one of the only things preventing a very serious national economic crisis in this era of chronic socialist overspending. For a young, healthy, single guy, especially one who is WN, “livin’ lean” in a rural area, maybe such a crisis would be desirable insofar as it might hasten the resolution of the current long-term unsustainable contradictions in all aspects of American life. It would amount to a huge “accelerationist” mechanism.
But for lots of average white Americans with childcare and eldercare responsibilities, or for elderly whites with incomes dependent upon the nation’s general financial health, losing the ‘gift’ of USDRS would make them much poorer. All sorts of taxes would have to be raised as foreign sovereign wealth funds reduce or stop purchasing US Treasury debt as a consequence of that loss’s leading to a huge decline in the perceived safety and thus value of the dollar – or else the Federal budget deficit would have to be closed by politically unpopular (and thus all but impossible) spending cuts, or, more likely, massive inflation (which, again, would disproportionately hurt average white Americans).
These taxes would, as always, mostly get paid by the [disproportionately white, non-Jewish] professional, middle, and working classes, as well as such classes’ no longer employed retirees – not by the [heavily Jewish] super-wealthy or [heavily nonwhite] welfare underclass. Massively raising taxes would also lead to substantial reductions in domestic employment in the private sector (where whites disproportionately work), and GDP growth.
It’s also not clear to me that the only thing backing USDRS is the US military. Again, I’d like this assertion explained to me at greater length. There are many reasons for USDRS, even if it arose in part as a consequence of dominant US military power in the immediate aftermath of WW2. What mainly upholds it today is inertia; the depth of both US trade and US capital markets; and a global sense that the USD is still safer as a store of value [and I speak as a “Ron Paulite”/”hard money gold bug”] than the very few other proposed alternatives.
USDRS is a real benefit to the POC Occupationist Regime, as is mass immigration. But unlike immigration, and pretty much every other policy that benefits the POCOR, USDRS also brings benefits (at least in the short and intermediate terms) to all Americans. WNs should keep their focus on race (where we’ve hardly won any victories, in case anyone has failed to notice), which is our strongest suit (think: legal immigration, the border, BLM terrorism, black crime, affirmative action and special POC quotas, CRT, Chicoms in grad schools and government national security agencies, etc) as well as ideological raison d’etre. Involving ourselves in complicated non-racial (or only indirectly racial) issues, for the ostensible reason of challenging the POCOR more broadly, only divides prowhites (as outside of race per se, we might all have differing interests; I’ve been 100% prowhite for 45 years, but I damn sure want to keep USDRS for as long as possible) and confuses normies, thereby needlessly casting in some associated doubt our otherwise intellectually unassailable policy positions on racial matters.
Our ‘brand’ is racial truth that normiecons won’t speak. We would be shrewd to stick to it.
USDRS is backed on safety against Russia and China.
It’s a terrible terrible development. Russia (and its ethnocentric allies, such as Hungary) were exerting considerable soft power, gaining fans across the decadent West, and actually influencing politics and policy.
Within a week all that progress has washed away, like a bombed bridge across the Dnieper. This conflict has given new energy to the “right side of history” “folx”. Tucker Carlson, Zemmour, Meloni… anyone that once stood up for us has been forced to disavow Russia or defend the indefensible.
The only silver lining I can see is from an accelerationist POV. Global economic collapse forces Western peoples to slide down the hierarchy of needs, cut non essential spending (e.g. CRT/tranny seminars), and circle the wagons.
I’m glad for this website and for my ability to access content like this. We are the only ones with any sense about anything. Everyone else is trying to evade reality.
Yes, being dragged into the binary (!) cartoon visions of the MSM & Co. over this tragic fighting can certainly have the effect of splitting a group already fighting massively uphill, when in reality, none of our opinions are likely to have the slightest effect on the outcome.
We’re very savvy on race realism but not always on political realism.
“Prior to the invasion, I would have stood against war. But now that it has happened, the best scenario we can hope for, aside from a low death count and a speedy conclusion, would be for the Ukrainian nationalists to work with the Russians to expel NATO while splitting the country in two à la Czechoslovakia. That way, the Ukrainians can get their ethnostate, the Russians can get their security, and the globalists can go to hell”.
Philip Giraldi comes to a similar conclusion.
What is happening in Europe and Asia should all come down to a very simple realization about the limits of power: America has no business in risking a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine or with China over Taiwan. The United States has been fighting much of the world for over two decades, impoverishing itself and killing millions in avoidable wars starting with Iraq and Afghanistan. … Worst of all, the bloodshed in Ukraine has all been unnecessary. A little real diplomacy with honest negotiators weighing up real interests could easily have come to acceptable solutions for all parties involved. https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/creating-new-enemies/
This is not a solution this is pure and unadulterated bullshit, straight outta Kremlin.
Hilarious if it wouldn’t be tragic. What makes you believe that after another few years Russia will not attack once again? Russia never respected any treaty (Budapest Memorandum anyone?). What makes you think that Putin or whoever might come after him will suddenly stop sabotaging Ukraine? A treaty with Russia has no value, or the value of some used toilet paper.
What’s interesting is seeing the inversion of political polarities on the issue. Leftist that were against war in Iraq tend to be in favor of action in Ukraine while being pro-war was once the stance of the right many on the right are against fighting in Ukraine. Even crazier is seeing left wing memes with the Soviet hammer and sickle inside the “O” in “GOP.”
Greg’s podcast was a very sobering outlook on what’s going on. It’s easy to get into the grug think of, “let’s root for Putin to pwn the libs” but Putin isn’t really such a good guy either. It’s the whole allying with Stalin against Hitler meme. It will be nice to see globohomo get BTFO’d in the Ukraine, Putin very much alluded to that in one of his speeches, talking about degradation and unnatural things. But we should all be hoping and praying for a peaceful solution as soon as possible. The tragedy is that this could have been avoided. Russia already has four NATO countries on its border, asking that Ukraine not join NATO really isn’t asking for much. Not to mention all the warmongering from Democrats, predominantly Jewish Democrats what with the now debunked Russia collusion conspiracy theory. It’s so cathartic adding “debunked conspiracy theory” to Russia collusion.
There is no question that Russia is going to win this war. The only question is casualties and how long it takes.
I am hoping for a swift and decisive Russian victory. Anyone hoping for the Ukrainians to hold out is hoping for more white deaths.
You are deluded. Russia already lost and is covered in shame. And everybody knows that Putin did it.
There’s a pretty big fog of war going on. “Ghost of Ukraine” if I recall correctly the footage it was based off of was a Ukrainian plane that went down. Snake Island the troops were killed after telling the Russians to f*** off, then it turns out they were captured. I don’t think anyone other than the people on the ground really know what’s going on.
It’s easy to see how Western Europeans and particularly Americans consider Putin to be a “nationalist,” at least superficially. Putin publicly praises his nation, its history and culture. He speaks with disdain about Western decadence and self-flagellation. If this is all you knew about Putin, he would seem like a hard-right nationalist compared to our political leaders. But scratch the surface and you see a man who is anything but a friend to true Russian nationalists.
Greg did an interesting interview with one such Russian nationalist, Denis Nikitin. Nikitin’s assessment of Putin and the Russian state’s treatment of fellow nationalist, Maxim “Tesak” Martsinkevich, was quite eye opening. Here’s the link… https://counter-currents.com/2020/09/counter-currents-radio-podcast-no-291-denis-nikitin/
Prior to the invasion, I would have stood against war. But now that it has happened, the best scenario we can hope for, aside from a low death count and a speedy conclusion, would be for the Ukrainian nationalists to work with the Russians to expel NATO while splitting the country in two à la Czechoslovakia. That way, the Ukrainians can get their ethnostate, the Russians can get their security, and the globalists can go to hell. [SQ]
This is exactly correct. We are white nationalists, concerned above all with the preservation and well-being of the white race itself. Petty Euro-ethnonationalisms can and perhaps should be encouraged (anything which obstructs cosmopolitanism and homogenizing globalism is good), but never if they conflict with the primary goals of racial nationalism. “No More Brother Wars!” has long been our postwar rallying cry. I do not believe in peace between whites per se, as one day (perhaps soon, before the century’s midpoint) there will be a transnational, intraracial civil war between white patriots and white traitors + nonwhite allies (which will also be akin to the European religious wars of the 17th century, both in the psychological intensity and motivations of the whites, and territorial confusion). Anything which weakens the power of white treason now, pre-war, is good. Thus, if Russia were to invade Scandinavia for the sole purpose of extinguishing local race treasonous governments and expelling Third World colonizers, I would hardly object (while of course wishing to minimize collateral casualties among non-traitor whites). But we should absolutely work for peace between non-cosmopolitanist whites, as our small and dwindling race can ill-afford needless butchery of precious white bodies.
Ukraine is now an artificial entity. The former Czechoslovakia (the name itself an imposition on ethnic reality) is the perfect analogy. I/we have seen that Ukraine electoral map showing a far greater degree of ideo-geographic concentration that what we have in Red/Blue State USA. Basically, the Western part of the country is heavily ethnically Ukrainian, and overwhelmingly votes one way, while the East is heavily ethnically Russian, and votes the opposite. Obviously, the path to a durable peace is to divide up the country along these ethno-geographic boundaries. The Eastern portion can either become an independent, Russophile buffer state, or simply be absorbed into Russia.
Western (Real?) Ukraine should not be allowed to join either the EU (which would saddle other EU nations with another poor, Southern European nation with massive corruption and poor public finances; these nations need to adopt German fiscal rectitude, rather than focusing on obtaining German fiscal bailouts), or NATO (which would needlessly inflame Russia, while bringing limited if any benefit to NATO itself).
Our long term white American goal, however, should not be to destroy NATO, which is an excellent security architecture for Europe itself, which must become more unified militarily so as to have the force structure in place to resist ever-increasing demographic assaults from Africa and the Middle East across this century (without unity, those little European nations – and they’re all comparatively little – will be gobbled up one by one by Third World poverty-hordes). Rather, what we white patriot Americans want is for the lazy and pathetic Europeans to start spending a lot more on defense (as well as to recover their old racial pride and patriotism – though the defense spending increases would be good even if the Europeans remain for now, as with Americans, mostly racially brainwashed: existing military equipment managed by wokesters could easily be used by patriots, and sustained racial assault has a way of accelerating the redpilling process; whereas without actual military strength, even a massive recrudescence of Euro-white pride would be temporarily powerless to halt the invasions that are coming). We should encourage European independence by removing all American troops from Europe (which will also eliminate that miscegenation which sometimes occurs between nonwhite soldiers and European women). This will also force all of Europe over time to look more to Russia as a military guarantor, which I believe will also be good for Russia itself, strengthening its own nascent civil society, especially in the are of de-corruption (which Russia badly requires).
I believe that a potential Berlin-Moscow Axis – German industrial superiority linked to white Russian manpower and territorial resources – might one day soon be the sole remaining white power on earth. Certainly, this scenario is not totally far-fetched.
Eastern Europe is not “poor” by itself, it is in fact extremely rich. The Russian proximity and direct action keeps the region “poor”. When the government is made of Russian assets the corruption runs rampant.
Voting has no chance to change anything because the “Internal Troops” and “Russian tourists” or “the green men” are enough to arrest and kill any politician and disperse fast and brutally any protest.
White nationalists should not accept the fact that millions of whites are oppressed and blackmailed by a genocidal punk.
Otherwise, how do you like your neighborhood? Few fine houses encircled by huge units populated by thugs, poor and heavily armed with nukes? How long it will take to over spill into your porch?
Don’t worry about fiscal responsibility. 20 years are enough for change. Also everybody loves a Finnish or German fiscal system. The marxist/soviet/Russian system imposed after 1990 crippled the nations and taxed us to death – 90% of income.
No, the Europeans are not cheap/lazy when coming about “defense”. I am not that sure that US is that interested in an European Army on par with US. I guess it is better for everyone to buy US Treasury Bonds and accept American safety in return. Without that, too many things are going to change in unpredictable ways. Who knows.
Pat Buchanan called this one back in 1999. Here’s a reading of the second chapter of his book “A Republic, Not An Empire”==
As did George Kennan ==
This is likely to anger a lot of people and I hope that C-C will still publish the essays that I submit after this. Whatever differences of opinion on this matter, I still think that Counter-Currents is the best pro-white site on the web and there is no where I would rather have my essays published, even if they were paying me.
…having had their nationalism effectively squashed throughout the twentieth century and co-opted by globalists in the twenty-first, it’s impossible not to empathize with the plight of Ukrainian nationalists.
I find it impossible to sympathise with them. Stepan Bandera was no hero. He started his ignoble career assassinating Polish officials when Poland was the most sympathetic nation to Ukrainian independence. And what was Poland to do with Galicia but annex it after Ukraine fell to the Bolsheviks? Were they supposed to create a tiny, unviable rump state to please Bandera’s lot? Then during the war, Bandera’s boys slaughtered Polish civilians. Note that the Germans treated him the same as Dirlewanger; as an animal. They kept in locked up until the end of the war, when they tossed him at the Reds like a rabid dog.
You want partition so that everyone can win? Bandera’s fanboys have spent the last eight years fighting against that in the East. I have no sympathy for this Eastern European petty nationalism. Latvians welcome black American soldiers into their country that rape their women out of irrational spite for Russia. If you want to argue that they have to be petty nationalists to preserve their national cultures, it isn’t working. Leaked cables from the US embassy in Estonia discussed how to multiculturalise the country. Eastern Euros need to move past this. Western Europeans have. It’s been instructive seeing the reactions of Western and Eastern European nationalists. Western European nationals have been almost universally in favour of Russia humiliating Washington. Eastern European nationalists are more concerned with their petty ethnic squabbles.
I really wish that whites would get over this sort of thing. You can preserve your ethnic culture without petty nationalism. Compare the state of the Irish and Welsh languages. The Welsh have been part of England longest of any Celtic nation, are the most pro-Union nation in Britain, and their language is the only Celtic language that isn’t endangered. The Irish utterly despise the English, fought a war for their own state, and it hasn’t done a thing for the Gaelic language or culture. And in the east Russia is not even any threat to ethnostates like the Baltics and Poland. It only threatens them now because it is threatened by NATO itself.
Between Ukraine and Russia, I see one state, that however flawed its government might be, is eager to re-unite with its ethnic kin and sees fellow Rus’ as brothers. It is led by a moderate, ethnoaware nationalist that supports multiethnicism to hold together its territories for geopolitical reasons. It is trying its upmost to avoid killing those it views as ethnic brothers and reunite the Triune Russian Nation.
On the other hand are petty nationalists driven by hatred for their own ethnic kin, content to be led by a Jew (Ukraine is the only state other than Israel to have a Jewish president and PM, as the media keeps reminding us) so long as they aren’t part of Russia. They care not how many whites are dying; they almost seem to rejoice in it. They are fighting a hopeless war, and for what? So that Ukraine can join the EU? For Zelensky?
White nationalists will cheer for the Taliban, who we share no ideological sympathies with, to humiliate ZOG, but not Russia? Have you internalised antiwhiteness yourselves, and find it easier to cheer for browns, or are you caught up in the swastica aesthetics of Azov? Even if Russia were politically hopeless, I would cheer Russians sending every Jewish neocon and antowhite lib into fits of disbelief and rage andthe overthrow of the only government outside of Israel with a Jewish president and PM.
If Anatoly Karlin is right, and I think he is, Russia is building a civilisation state. It will be a strong, independent white nation (and a lot whiter with tens of millions of Ukrainians in it) with its own memetic sphere and IT infrastructure. The first truly modern state of the Information Age, moving beyond the nation states of the past and failed ideology of globalism.
Our task in the West is the same. It is not to restore the nation states of old, but to create a new civilisational state in Western and Central Europe and North America. A new Atlantic order based not on neoconservatism and liberal internationalism but race. Alt-Atlanticism sounds alright, but I think that ‘Atlanticism’ has already been too poisoned by neocons and carries an unpleasantly anti-Russian, liberal hawk tinge, and any white nationalist civilisation state would naturally align itself with Russia. A better term would be pan-Frankism. We must have our own Frankish World. This is the only thing that a white nationalist in the West should bother with.
I spent a couple months in Ukraine recently and can confirm that the youth will not resist globohomo. I see another Ireland. Low birth rates, nihilistic, and open to multiculturalism. Even in poor Ukraine, half of rideshare drivers were foreign (middle easterners, central Asians).
A “nationalist” intoduced me to his wife; she was Peruvian.
Downtown Kiev, the most prominent billboard that I and everyone had to walk down every day, was a clothing advertisement selecting a young white Ukrainian leaning back into her indian or middle eastern boyfriend.
I had no idea that it was that bad already.
Ukrainian nationalism reminds me of Irish nationalism. Closest ethnic kin out, African migrants in.
Putin published an article last July: “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians,” that is important for anyone not terminally infected by Russophobia (as so many Europeans are – especially in Eastern Europe) to read. The Oliver Stone interviews with Putin on Showtime, from 2015/16, are also a fascinating glimpse of his attitudes and his view of the West. All the usual suspects aggressively criticized Stone for giving the “evil corrupt dictator” a chance to speak. The attack on the hideous and loathsome Kiev regime should not be understood as an attack on the Ukrainian people. Most of what is being reported in western corporate media is blatant Anglo-Zionist fog of war propaganda. And Russia has experienced devastating invasions from the West numerous times (e.g. 1941; The Crimean War; 1812; The Great Northern War; the Polish invasion of the early 17th Century). Russia has been backed into a corner by the US and NATO, and has now decided to ride or die. Russia is a strong Orthodox Christian nation, that suffered greatly under Judeo-Bolshevik rule in the 20th Century, learned from that suffering, and has no interest in degenerate western “freedom.” The very idea that they would tolerate NATO missiles and shady US bio labs on Ukrainian territory is perhaps the best example of the utter irresponsibility and snarky homosexual teenager behavior of Western elites. In an alternate universe somewhere, Hitler invades the USSR to liberate the Slavs in general, and the Russians in particular, from the pitiless rule of the Jews, instead of trying to conquer the Russians on their own land. He made an understandable mistake, given his late 19th Century worldview and struggle against Bolshevism, but we need to move beyond ignorant Russophobia and stop poking the Bear.
…and stop poking the Bear.
Forcing someone with nuclear weapons into a corner is the act of fools.
‘Here lies the body of William Jay
Who died maintaining his right of way –
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.’
Well said! I highly recommend Anatoly Karlin’s substack. I’ve been reading it for years, back when he was anti-Putin.
Excellent commentary – I fully concur.
“In an alternate universe somewhere, Hitler invades the USSR to liberate the Slavs in general, and the Russians in particular, from the pitiless rule of the Jews, instead of trying to conquer the Russians on their own land.”
If only that had actually happened, WWII would have turned out very differently indeed, and much for the better.
I hate even to criticize “USA” (Unsere Seliger Adolf) in any way because of his incredible nobility and commitment. And as Victor Suvorov’s books conclusively show, he genuinely believed that Stalin was massing the Red Army near the border in preparation for a massive attack (Icebreaker, and The Chief Culprit). Start the German attack a few weeks earlier in 1941, let Hoth’s troops keep moving toward Moscow in August, and the history of the 20th Century would indeed have been quite different. R.H.S. Stolfi’s “Hitler – Beyond Evil and Tyranny” discusses this very effectively too.
A comment of mine from 3 days ago remains relevant:
February 26, 2022 at 2:48 am
What are you referring to when you ask “what is at stake”? To the fact that ethnic majorities in the two easternmost provinces of Ukraine are Russian, and perhaps would rather be reunited with Russia than remain in Ukraine? The ethnonationalist position, at least theoretically, is pretty clear. We believe that race is a valid biological category, and a psychologically and sociologically meaningful one; that genetic similarity should be the basis of nationhood; that ‘diversity’ is divisive and destabilizing, whereas ethnic homogeneity promotes internal stability; and that, therefore, political borders should correspond to ethnic ones as much as possible.
I suppose sometimes tensions can arise between different levels of nationalist concern. In this case, eg, the ethnonationalist position, that Russians should live in Russia (and Ukrainians in Ukraine), might lead to support for Putin’s action, or at least a discreet silence about his aggression. OTOH, the white nationalist position is to oppose all “brother wars” (wars between groups of non-race-traitor whites) on general principle (that our race is too small as well as numerically dwindling as is), and thus would likely condemn Putin’s initiation of a needless conflict in which much white blood on both sides will be shed.
Of course, much more is at stake from a non-racial perspective. I’m worried about how this will play out domestically. Unlike many here, I actually really do want the GOP to retake at least one chamber of Congress this Fall. That would make a positive difference to my life (even if the GOP is consistently racially useless). My worry is that too many GOP patriotards will “rally ’round muh flag” ” to show unity” against “the dictator Putin”, and that this will end up boosting Biden’s public authority and reputation, which in turn will weaken the sources of public dissatisfaction that could otherwise lead to a 1994 or 2010-level Red Wave in Congress (which in turn would prove a boon for at least a decade or longer), resulting in much smaller GOP victories.
This war in the Donbass, now Ukraine as a whole, is none of our business, and its outcome will do nothing to advance the prowhite cause, either in the US or the world. Our interest is solely a) to prevent any possibility of nuclear war, and b) that Biden be made to look as foolish and incompetent as possible.
I believe the key here is that there would be no conflict between Russian and Ukrainian nationalists if the Ukraine’s political leadership had not chosen to align themselves with the west. There is no reason to believe a Russian invasion would have occurred without the events of 2014, the status quo prior to that time was acceptable to them. Now, after causing the Russians to believe invasion was the only solution to this problem by refusing to guarantee that the Ukraine would not be admitted to NATO, the west has effectively abandoned the Ukraine, retaliating only with sanctions and arms shipments that will undoubtedly be too little, too late to save it. Not that I’m saying NATO should go to war with Russia – there would likely be no winners in any such war. But the war at hand was ultimately caused by western policy makers’ intention to back Russia into a corner, with the Ukraine pushed ahead of them as a shield – despite surely knowing the potential consequences. This ought to be a lesson to nationalists around the world – it doesn’t pay to become a de facto dependency of the US and the EU, they will be happy to use you as a proxy in their chess games against Russia or China but when you could use their aid most they won’t stand by you. As with everything else, we ultimately have no alternative but to build institutions of our own.
All I can really hope is that this tragedy turns into the ultimate embarrassment for American imperialism and Russian imperialism alike, and a victory for the Ukrainian Nationalists, Russian Nationalists and American Nationalists alike.
Once again, Whites are being used as pawns to slaughter each other for good and noble causes on the behest of an internationale Clique.
This article is superlative, except IMO it tapers off in the end. The author should have offered a bit more tangibly on how the two nationalist camps can possibly manage to reconcile and partition the country modeled on the Czechs and Slovaks, certainly the best model of national/ethnic self-determination and peaceful separation in post-WWII Europe.
The author’s cogent and astute analysis impressed me deeply, and I love his conclusion, surely a wonderful scenario if it could ever become true. The only problem is that it is simply too hard for the Russian nationalists and Ukrainian nationalists to achieve a genuine reconciliation and mutual understanding, with both sides so hot-headed, resentful, vengeful and spiteful toward one another and entangling in all the complicated historical and ongoing grievances and hatred, pointing fingers and hurling horrid rhetoric at each other. This is not to mentioned that the vicious and iniquitous third force in this struggle i.e. the US and NATO-led internationalist wing is busy stoking up animosity, sowing the seeds of discord and mistrust and adding fuel to the fire. If miraculously there would emerge a heroic figure who can make the two nationalist camps see clearly who is their own common enemy and thus are willing to bury their axes and turn around to fight shoulder by shoulder to repel and expel the real enemy, that guy will go down in history as our great leader and the immortal savior of the White race in the mother continent.
We should strive to speak of this war with logic and without emotion. Any actions should follow consistently from our cool, prosaic words.
My sentiments are warmly pro-Russian, so the opposite of Greg Johnson’s. In Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 419, Greg Johnson on the War in Ukraine, my sentiments moved in the opposite direction from Greg Johnson’s. But when it came to his recommendations, mine were identical with his. The logic of White genetic interests suggests that the neutralization of Ukraine would have been better than partition, and partition would be better than protracted war.
By following the logic of the genetic interests of our race and by discarding emotion as useless we will achieve as much practical agreement as possible.
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