Why Ramzpaul is Right
(& Why it Doesn’t Matter)
Spanish translation here
Ramzpaul is basically right in his quarrel with the “1488” wing of White Nationalism. He’s obviously frustrated with purity signaling spirals and LARPing. I believe he’s wrong to accuse 1488ers of being enemy plants, although some of them probably are. I think, however, that his deepest frustration stems from the sense that White Nationalist ideas have the potential to sweep through our society and redefine the political mainstream, were it not for the ease with which our enemies stigmatize them as “Nazi.” (I will use “Nazi” rather than “National Socialist,” because we are talking about stigmatizing rhetoric here.)
Are you worried that our race is in demographic decline? Only Nazis would worry about that! Do you want to secure our borders against criminals and terrorists? Only Nazis would want to do that! Do you think it is crazy that Sweden, Germany, and other European countries have imported thousands of rapists from Africa and the Middle East? Only a Nazi would care about that! Do you think that your country should prefer citizens to foreigners, workers to parasites, decent people to criminals? Only Nazis would think that way! Do you think that whites should start saying “no” to unjust and crazy non-white demands, such as Black Lives Matter protesters who basically demand an end to enforcing laws against black criminals? Only a Nazi would do that. You don’t want to be a Nazi, do you? Then stop protesting against policies that will destroy white people. After all, the only way for white people to atone for the crimes of Nazis is by ceasing to exist.
This kind of rhetoric is so asinine, and the aims it advances are so evil, that it should be child’s play to demolish it. But we have had more than 90 years of anti-Nazi propaganda dinned into us by now, which has created a powerful moral inhibition to think rationally about any policies, no matter how sensible, if they are stigmatized as “just like the Nazis.”
To make matters worse, there are plenty of our own people who happily collaborate in this process of stigmatizing and marginalizing sensible policies as “Nazi.” They jump up and say, “You’re damned right! Only Nazis believe in borders. Only Nazis oppose rape. Only Nazis take their own side in a fight.”
Given a choice between defending policies that are necessary for the survival of our very race — or defending the honor of Adolf Hitler and National Socialism, the 1488 crowd prefers the latter. But this is a perverse and self-defeating move.
Earlier this year, after the mass sexual assaults and harassment of German women by Muslim men on New Year’s Eve, the Mayor of Cologne declared that she was setting up “safe zones” for women at Carnival time. I tweeted the following:
Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
It is good propaganda, because the natural answer is “Yes, why not?” We will win when the public’s first reaction to all nationalist policies is “Yes, why not?” Because if every individual should have a room of his own, and every family a house of its own, why shouldn’t every people have a country of its own? Why not?
But imagine a slightly different message:
Hitler was right. Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
The initial reaction of most people would be indignation, disbelief, or puzzlement about the first sentence. And very few would go on to read the second sentence at all, much less think, “Yes, why not?” Beyond that, the fact that an opponent of mass rape links his position to Hitler actually lends credibility to the idiotic claim that opposing the rape of German women is somehow a bad thing because it is “just like Hitler.”
The case for racial and ethnic nationalism has never been stronger. Philosophy, science, history, and the news of the day all argue in its favor. Thus it is easy to see why the enemies of nationalism want to marginalize and stigmatize it by linking it to a single central European nationalist movement from the first half of the 20th century. Our enemies claim that Nazism is the only real and authentic form of racial or ethnic nationalism. It is harder to understand why friends of nationalism want to do the same thing.
Nazism is not the only real and authentic form of racial nationalism. It is not the only path to racial nationalist policies. Our politics is based on reason and reality, not on the historical contingencies of central Europe between the wars.
Why is it the case that even in countries like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, which suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazis, there are nationalists who identify with National Socialism? I think this is a natural product of anti-Nationalist propaganda. When a population accepts the false equivalency nationalism = Nazism, most people will be deterred from nationalism, but there will always be a small minority who will still embrace it.
Some of these people are attracted to Nazism because they really believe it is evil. Not much can be done with such people. Others think it is true and good, and they will embrace what is true and good regardless of any stigmas. These people are admirable. Such sincere idealists might even believe that they can persuade enough of their fellow citizens to tip the political balance in favor of nationalism. After all, history is made by energetic minorities.
There are two problems with this notion:
- The number of people receptive to Nazism — paleo or neo — is probably too small to change the direction of any society. (And yes, one’s movement might grow exponentially until it hits its absolute upper limit of, say, .02% of the general populace.)
- Generic racial/ethnic nationalist policies have the potential to convert the vast majority of our people, which is why — again — our enemies seek to heap the odium of “Nazism” on them. We have an uphill battle on our hands, and — again — our own people should not make it harder.
So given a choice between option #1 and option #2, the best path to the salvation of our race is clearly #2. Yes, our enemies will always throw the “Nazi” charge our way. But we always have a choice when they do: to help them or to fight them.
Is this “mainstreaming”? No, I am a vanguardist. Mainstreamers want us to change our principles. They want us to be more like the mainstream. I want to keep our principles and change the mainstream to be more like us. I don’t want White Nationalism to go mainstream, I want the mainstream to go White Nationalist. I want to change the public mind, not mirror or echo it.
For me, there are four non-negotiable principles of White Nationalism: (1) Europeans are a distinct race, the white race; (2) our race is on the road to biological extinction because of bad political policies (white genocide); (3) the only solution is to this danger is to create racially and ethnically homogeneous white homelands; and (4) Jews are a distinct people that belong in their own homeland, not scattered about white homelands. We’ll never save our people by abandoning any of these principles, so we will just have to convert them to our way of thinking.
The opposite of the mainstream is the vanguard. But another opposite of the mainstream is the marginal. Vanguardism and marginality are not the same things, though. So we should never mistake self-marginalization for a winning vanguard strategy. Just because something is not mainstream does not mean that it is a vanguard capable of pulling the mainstream behind it.
“Hitler did nothing wrong” is funny as a meme, but it is not defensible as a thesis. And let’s be honest: it is funny because of its chutzpah. There is something bracing about sheer self-assertion in the face of practically the whole world. I was delighted when Charles Manson declared, “The war’s not over as far as I’m concerned.” (Remember, he’s not locked in there with them; they’re locked in there with him.) But the war really is over, although the struggle for European survival goes on. Yes, people build strength by carrying unnecessary burdens. But this is politics, not therapy. And political movements defeat themselves by taking on such burdens.
I once told a friend that I would gladly join his little spiritual honor guard at the crypt of National Socialism, except that I believe that we can actually win. There are a lot of self-defeating attitudes and behaviors on the Alternative Right: alcoholism, drug abuse, LARPing, bickering, internet drama, etc. I believe that people gravitate towards them because, deep down inside, they’re already defeated. They don’t believe we can win; that attitude leads to self-defeating behaviors; and thus their prophecy fulfills itself. Naturally, I would much prefer that they fulfill my prophecy instead: that the Millennials will someday be known as the Greatest Generation, because they will liberate our race and establish homelands for all our peoples.
So, to sum up, I think that Ramzpaul is basically right. But why do I think that it does not matter? Because the 1488ers will never go away, so I think he is wasting his time baiting them. Instead, we need to find a way of accepting their existence and making them into assets rather than liabilities. First, they do attract highly principled and idealistic people, some of whom we can educate. Second, the best way to convert people within our broader camp is not to attack them but to set an example by doing a better job of attacking our common enemies. Third, they make us seem more moderate and centrist by comparison. Thus they can serve as stalking horses, which might scare people into being more accommodating to our approach. Fourth and finally, as Jonathan Bowden often pointed out, the ultra fringes of any political movement generally attract highly energetic and creative people. We can draw upon some of that energy and steal their best memes.
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Nazism is today a fatally overdetermined sign. It has been so packed full of contradictory meaning, misinformation, disinformation, and competing revisions that it signifies everything and nothing. Trying to transplant Nazism as such to the present day only adds to the glut. Better to retire it to the library and museum where it may all be sorted out at a more enlightened future date. For now, yes, step over it and build something new and alive. Will we sometimes remind our enemies of Nazis? Of course. We’re white, after all.
It’s not Nazism – a Jewish term, it’s National Socialism! How many of you have read Mein Kampf? Very few – i would imagine! Your knowledge of NS comes from the Jews-Media and Hollywood – double standards, considering you are supposed to be against the “Controlled Media” and their lies!
You clearly didn’t understand a single word of what I wrote.
Another great piece, Greg. My thoughts exactly… and more.
The 1488 crew should carry on doing what they imo *except* attacking people who are turning normies into half-radicals is totally counter-productive.
1488ers need people to be turned into half-radicals first so leave people like ramzpaul alone and focus on the half-radicals instead.
If we can win with half-radicals then we’ll win that way – if not then half-radical will just be the first stage.
The problem with Ramzpaul is he feeds into it. By that I mean he’s kinda asking for it. The more he acknowledges and attacks the “1488” crowd the more they are going to attack him. The whole thing with that jewess girl he met at that conference was not even that big of a deal but then he goes and makes a huge video about it and makes it into much bigger deal than it previously was. I didn’t even know about it until he started whining and then punching right. If he’d just ignore, he wouldn’t be getting half the hate he is now.
ah fair enough. i usually ignore these arguments so i may have missed some steps.
either way I think the modern 1488 crew using a bit of humor and poking fun at the anti-white mythology is good stuff and as long as there are enough people doing the “normie to half-radical” part it should be fine.
one thing for people to bear in mind is the ever increasing demonization of white identity means as a reaction and under the radar young white kids will automatically be trending in the direction of those identities which are most taboo but it won’t be obvious till it is.
Ramzpaul wants to sow insurrection with allies. The moment he goes there he’s no longer useful to use and should be ignored. We don’t need anyone sowing insurrection because they only care about feeling important rather than making a difference. Case in point, Ramzpaul sided with Jews, attacked Whites, and said nothing as Jews also attack Whites on his Twitter feed. The moment someone freely uses the term “White Trash” they’re the enemy. To the elite, Negro, Jew, and run-of-the-mill Liberal we’re all “White Trash”. Ramzpaul has no interest in defending Whites. He’s quickly outliving his usefulness.
Modern National Socialism is simultaneously local and universal and attracts a lot of spiritual energy and talent. See “The Lion” on youtube. I would not write it off. It is applicable in a myriad of forms and cultural environments.
I don’t know if you’re talking about Andrew Anglin/Daily Stormer or some other players, cuz I’d need a program to figure it out.
But, it is a culture war.
And, the Daily Stormer lot are the Storm Troops of that culture war.
You’re never going to kill all the Jew propaganda memes without the over-the-top mocking that is being provided by AA/DS and their allies.
Anyone who attacks the efforts of AA/DS to de-sensitise the world to reality and erase the power of Jew propaganda is really just trying to become respectable and set up a new Conservatism Inc.
You need to keep in mind that this is actually a race war and whites are losing – if you want your enemies to like you, then you’re not up for the fight.
Thank you Greg for making sense of an important question for all of us that want save our race. I do think ground work is being done by desensitizing young people to the symbols that were used to cower them historically. I can remember when rooting out satanic backward messages in rock music had regular people taking it seriously. Now, after 40 years of metal bands being around that seems quaint and silly. I think the same thing is being done with endless swastikas and images of Hitler on Twitter and elsewhere. Millennials won’t be frightened and controlled by these images the way that someone that grew up in the 70’s would have been.
RamZPaul was the first person I heard when I discovered this movement and I’m grateful to have been eased into it with humor and positivity. Attacking him for not being the video version of Andrew Anglin is incredibly short sighted.
I agree with you except keep in mind RamzPaul is a bit of an agitator, not a blameless victim. As they say “it takes two to tango ” and Ramzpaul has been doing his half of the work by baiting what he calls the “1488” crowd. Most people who” attack” him are anonymous so there’s no saying who they actually are or what their motives are. They could just be trolling him to get a reaction and in that case he’s giving them exactly what they want. I really don’t see the upside to addressing anonymous attacks. Sometimes they might bring up what seems like a legitimate well thought out criticism that he might want to respond to but if they are just calling him names then there’s no good reason at all to respond to them.
As for Andrew Anglin I haven’t seen him attacking Ramzpaul that much. I saw him make a couple responses to him but for the most part he’s left him alone. Ramzpaul seems to be trying to bait Anglin more than the other way around. If I remember correctly Ramzpaul was the first one to attack Andrew.
Well said! What you said is exactly right and factual. Thanks, bro!
There is room for everything. Obviously not everyone is receptive to the truth about Hitler but to those who are it is good that they can find some people who are willing to discuss it in an open manner. The Holocaust was, for the most part, a hoax and it needs to be exposed. A lot of white guilt comes from this fiction and so to dispel that fiction would to me be a very important matter to talk about. I understand that some people will instantly reject it and so we have people like Ramzpaul or Milo who are like the diet coke of the alt-right and won’t discuss such matters to upset more brainwashed feelings. And if they are even too much for them well then you have people like Sargon of Akkad – the coke zeros of the alt-right.
These groups should avoid attacking each too much since the most important thing is to focus our energies on the greatest enemy: The SJWs and open-border leftists.
I agree on the point that re-igniting Nazism is far from a likely route to victory for our cause, and we can win on separate premises. However, is it even possible that we will have a white ethnostate if the public isn’t going to reevaluate the Second World War – Or shall we have holocaust museums in our ethnostate? The idea that we can have white racial consciousness while remaining totally “blue-pilled” on the Second World War seems ridiculous to me. Since this period of history is being used as a very effective weapon against us, I think it would be unwise to try to dismantle it. We do after all have a case to make with great revisionist historians on our side like David Irving.
Looking at history, the defeat of Nazi Germany was a pivotal point for Western politics at which the left took large strides in the name of equality. How can we hope to regain ground if we accept the Left’s premise that Hitler was the devil incarnate and everything Nazi Germany did was pure evil, while Soviet Russia (relatively) gets off the hook? Newer generations are more personally detached from the war and I do believe the public opinion can be changed to a more reasonable one – at least one that is not framed to directly support the narrative of the Left. Again, this is of importance, since the White children of our ethnostate should learn a history of their people that does not emphasize the suffering of certain minority groups that are taking advantage of us (via our altruism no less).
On a final tangent, I cannot understand how you are arguing RamZPaul is correct while defending the merits of white nationalism, which he literally termed “cultish”. And at the same time, you are using the derogatory “1488er” which does not mean much to me beyond a jab at the old guard of White Nationalism. 1488 refers to the 14 words and 88 precepts, put forward by David Lane, and even in a modern context does not have much to do with nazi internet LARPers. Is it okay now to defame those who died working for our movement because their methods weren’t attractive or ultimately victorious? I digress. The use of “cult” to describe the movement which many of us on this website identify with is inexcusable in my book, even if it comes from a legitimate frustration with our radical elements. If RamZPaul wants to criticize others in our movement, then he should be intellectually rigorous. His sarcastic humour, undefined terms like “1488er”, and silly anecdotes from Eastern Europe won’t cut it.
There are plenty of people in this movement who behave like cult members. The best way to appreciate that is to try to have a rational conversation about certain topics, like the importance of revisionism, and watch them descend rapidly into insults. Why? Because their views are essentially religious dogmas that they can’t question or defend.
“There are plenty of people in this movement who behave like cult members.”
Indeed, and I could be persuaded to agree. However, RamZPaul did not say or argue this. He said White Nationalism IS a cult, and advocates “nationalism for everyone!”, but does not distinguish where White Nationalism ends and his specific form of universal nationalism begins. Part of me recognizes he simply believes he is “trolling” the Daily Stormer crowd, but there are large overlaps between them, this website, and White Nationalism. I found it insulting given that I have never harassed him for not being far-right enough (and in fact defended him) before this happened, but now he has decided the “White Nationalism” brand is irredeemable, and from which he now says he wishes to “part ways”. I am sick of seeing people defend RamZPaul without addressing this fact.
You are engaged in autistic hair-splitting. Good bye.
Oosh, that hurts Greg. I was honestly trying to avoid being called autistic (and didn’t think you would do that).
If you think there is no legitimate grievance in the fact that he bluntly calls white nationalism a cult then we will part ways on that point, but I was expecting a little sympathy. After all, which is more divisive, RamZPaul saying white nationalism is a cult or myself not interpreting that to mean only some of us?
I really don’t mean to engage in hair-splitting… but I respect you and was hoping for a better answer. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I honestly think Vincent’s argument should be rightfully called meticulous rather than hair-splitting, and his attitude was all sincere and polite. Greg, your were a little too harsh and curt in your reply to him.
His whole approach was basically equivalent of the SJW hunting for pretexts to feel offended. I did not feel offended by the “cult” reference because I know it does not apply to me.
I have a hard time letting discussions end on a sour note. Greg, this goes beyond my own offense to his statements, and in hindsight I should not have even brought up my own feelings about his choice of words, so you are correct in that domain.
I will still defend that RamZPaul has engaged in mainstreaming. This is an article he linked to on his twitter:
The gist of it is that our attempts are futile and white nationalism will fail. Now I shall be accused of nitpicking (after all he posted it a while ago and deleted it later without any comment). However, viewing this in light of the fact that he made a youtube video telling his viewers to call themselves “nationalists” instead of “white nationalists” (when he for all intents and purposes IS one), I think this qualifies as mainstreaming, or at least quite a bit of confusion on his part. He defends his position by using the standard “nationalism for all” piece of rhetoric – which is fine. But do you or I really care much if Somalia is liberal multicultural democracy or homogeneous ethnostate? I think our primary concern is for whites, and if people want to identify as white nationalist to emphasize that concern we should not discourage it, as he has done.
I understand that your article is really dealing with the concept of stubborn and misguided “1488ers”, and what ought to be done with them. I certainly agree they exist and that they must be made assets rather than liabilities if possible. But you are giving RamZPaul the benefit of the doubt if you think that the trouble he has stirred up is only over his criticism of our radical elements. He has been careless.
I am willing to say that all of this probably won’t matter much in the long run, but it was enough to make many of us not like him and I think it’s for a good reason.
I don’t think that everybody should like Ramzpaul or everything he has said. I am just trying to get to the truth of his position and suggest a more constructive way forward.
A more constructive way forward? How about let the 1488ers and pikachu hitler memes be? They’ve done more good to spread your ideas in a very short time than infinity amounts of “proper” evola-stroking intellectuals making blog posts or preaching to the choir IRL, you really have to be getting high on your own supply not to see this. TRS’s success is due to its ability to include, not dismiss, that kind of content. What’s not obvious about this? And why is ramzpaul’s being a pleb about “muh neonazis” given the time of day? I thought you were wiser than this, Greg.
Le “purity spiral” meme.
Except that’s not what’s happening. The moderates are attacking the radicals. No ones attacking the moderates, you’re irrelevant. You’re not converting anybody, this is not an attractive message – this is autism.
We use hitler because he’s useful for converting people, if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be brought up. Logic is not going to convert the majority of people, some perfect argument wont be constructed, your message will fall on deaf ears. The vast majority of people respond well to emotion and not logic.
According to you somehow we’re hurting the movement. If only it weren’t for those nazi’s you’d be in power right now and Richard Spencer would be president. You want liberalism + white nationalism. Or libertarian/conservatism/whatever brand of tax cuts + nationalism. Did it ever occur to you that some people actually support socialism + nationalism?
Ramzpaul is wrong.
Explain to me how, exactly, option (a) is better than (b):
A. Hitler was right. Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
B. Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
‘A’ is better than ‘B’ because the problem isn’t a simple sex distinction. The problem is non-Whites and anti-Whites. This is genocide of Whites and no one else. Reminding them that Germany is for Germans and coupling that issue with safety, prosperity, and survival is the message. The closer you get to that message the better.
WW2 is used as a cudgel to beat up White people as ‘evil’. The anti-German slogans of WW2 have been transformed into anti-White slogans. It’s not merely enough to make a plead for safety. In order to be successful politically a group must be organized in a moral direction. Nazism is seen as bad because of Jews. However, Jews are not special and have no special place among Whites. Let the non-Whites have Jews. Whites don’t need them. It places us on a moral trajectory that is no longer tethered by concerns about Jews and their interests.
Finally, there’s the fact that Whites can look at every White, Western, Allied country that fought against the Nazis and see what has become of us. It’s much easier to say, “The wrong side won WW2.” I do this all of the time. It’s much easier to ask an edgy question like “What was the point of WW2?” Or we can make an edgier statement “Whites have a right to exist without the consent of non-Whites.” Of course, making that statement will lead to people calling you “Nazi”, which brings us to Ramzpaul’s autistic faggotry.
Ramzpaul’s pathological concern over the 1488 crowd will not help us in any way, and it only sows insurrection. Anything that’s good for Whites is automatically “Nazi” anyway, which is why we need to disarm the smear of the “evil Nazi”. Once the “evil Nazi” is seen as a smear on the White race rather than a political movement then (((anti-Whites))) lose much of their power to silence us.
I think it is possible to construct persuasive arguments for White Nationalist politics based on premises already shared by the vast majority of our people, premises that do not require the rehabilitation of NS. Our enemies know that too. That is why they wish to stigmatize our politics with the label “Nazi.” Because they have quite successfully demonized anything to do with Nazism. The people who accept that frame fall into two categories: the vast majority who will not give Nazis a second thought, and the tiny minority that will try to rehabilitate NS. But the audience for the latter approach is quite limited and therefore will be politically impotent. Thus both are dead ends for White Nationalism.
Your line of argument is flawed.
If there is a “vast majority who will not give Nazis a second thought,” then you have no constituency for White Nationalism, period.
Because, that “vast majority” has swallowed the Jew propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
No, your line of reasoning is flawed. The vast majority of whites support sensible pro-white policies, like immigration restriction. Very few of the same people would take it seriously, however, if it were joined at the hip with Nazism. That’s why the enemy uses that smear so liberally. They’ll always do that, so our only choice is: do we make it harder or easier for them?
Well, I don’t know what a 1488er is other than a beautifully dishonest straw man used in the service of a false alternative.
Your points in this article strike me (not that matters but it is a discussion thread) as acrobatics in defense of, if not conservatism and mainstreaming per se, then something that looks pretty close to them. I know you disagree. But one factor you ignore in my view is that RamZPaul’s willingness to attack to the right in an attempt to garner favor with the mainstream is a classic mark of the tepid and dishonest mainstreamer.
There is a whole universe of enemies this man could be exclusively attacking, but instead he devotes a large portion of his time to attacking people of good will. So there is no question RamZPaul has a number of traits in common with conservatives and mainstreamers. He wants to take people down that same sorry path which makes his work far more of problem for white interests than any 1488er.
It doesn’t seem to me like you’re accounting for the totality of the evidence here. RamZPaul’s use of straw man arguments, false alternatives and dishonest discourse in general are markers of mainstreaming tendencies as well.
But to attempt to address your point, I’d say there is always the matter of truth to consider. Hitler was right about damn near everything, and the fact that Hitler didn’t prevail is the reason Germany isn’t one big safe zone in the first place. Hitler was basically wrong about one big thing. He didn’t see Slavs as allies in a common struggle against Jewry, Bolshevism and the liberal West. While that’s a tragedy, it was probably impossible for him to see otherwise given the historical contingencies of his time.
Your first line is disingenuous. If the terms is meaningless, then why are people taking such offense at it?
Why don’t you answer my question. Which is better propaganda, (a) or (b)?
(a) Hitler was right. Why can’t all Germany be a safe space for women?
(b) Why can’t all Germany be a safe space for women?
Every woman (secretly) adores a Nazi.
The answer is clearly a. Aside from Sylvia Plath’s insight, the Hitler adjunct provides people with a possible path towards the desirable goal rather than simply the pathless goal itself.
A safe Germany is the end, Hitler is the means.
OK, I’m in enough trouble now. So I’ll be taking my leave.
Wiedersehn Damen und Herren!!!
I like memes and shitposting as much as the next guy, but in the end, politics is still serious business. And dank Hitler memes are never going to be anything more than a politically marginal form of entertainment.
Where do you stand on filthy and mentally-ill Trannies? Several Alt-Kikers on Twitter seem to not have a problem with it – in fact there are rumoured to be several ACTIVISTS including TradGrace who identify as Trans!
The answer is just a search away.
Explain to me how, exactly, option (a) is better than (b):
A. Hitler was right. Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
B. Why can’t all of Germany be a safe zone for women?
Please pardon my candor as well as my limited intellectual capacity, here is my humble two cents of explanation:
Exactly because all of Germany ought to be a safe zone for women, and also exactly because Hitler ‘s words and actions both argued for that statement as a matter of fact, Hitler was right. It is important to recognize that for both the sake of historical truth and the intellectual honesty and courage which the White race excels and deserves.
“No one’s attacking the moderates.” Well, that’s not quite true. The 1488-crowd went apeshit after Ramz took that picture with the jewish girl at NPI. It was retarded, and I think that’s what set the whole thing off. Before that bullshit Ramz even made a video embracing the 1488 meme.
Ramzpaul shouldn’t get so upset over it, I agree. That being said, some of the people around this thing of ours should really try and not go full retard every time someone disagrees with them slightly.
In what way is a Jew moderate?
Go to Ramzpaul’s Twitter feed and you’ll see Jew after Jew calling White people “White Trash” to defend Ramzpaul. That’s not moderate in any way whatsoever. That’s a typical Jew. The typical Jew is openly and virulently anti-White.
I was referring to Ramz as a moderate. He was the one who got shit just for taking a picture with the girl. There’s a difference between being realistic about the JQ and getting obsessed over every jew in the world.
When I first came across the Daily Stormer I thought it was some kind of a joke, a satiric website per People’s Cube. It was so over the top, how else could you take it but as parody and farce? But once you look at DS a little more analytically, you can see what it is doing, intentionally or not. It’s not so much about the events of Germany 1933-45, but rather the perception of those events 1946-present.
Who are the “Nazis,” anyway? The National Socialist German Workers’ Party as it existed from 1919 to 1945? The Wehrmacht/Waffen SS? The Nuremberg rallies? Or the dark armies of Eurasia seen nightly on the telescreens, the subject of the latest 10 Minute Hate by all goodthinkers?
I think an error is made by trying to argue the real world aspect of Hitler, Nazism and the Third Reich. As perceived today, these are “myths” in the neo-Machiavellian sense, overarching beliefs which justify the current (anti-White) political System. Those who toss about the word “Nazi” do so as a means to shut down dialog. They could just as well be shouting “witch,” or “heretic” or “Trotskyite wrecker.” And while they claim to be opposed to genocide, they see nothing wrong with the communists killing tens of millions over the 20th century, nor of their third world allies pushing Whites out of much of Africa and then invading Europe and North America. Similarly, they can shed crocodile tears over repression in the Third Reich while today jailing pro-White dissidents and using the media and academia to indoctrinate a generation.
The dilemma is that for too long the forces of White Nationalism have been on the defensive. This has given the System the initiative. A basic principle of psychological warfare is that you have to take the offensive with your agitprop. Throw the enemy on the defensive. Make him respond, and better, make him look ridiculous while doing so.
Which gets back to the Daily Stormer style. Effectively, it says we’re not going to be put down by the other side calling us “Nazi” (whatever that word might mean). Instead, we’re turning the memes around and using them to make fun of the anti-white System. And this is done by a combination of over the top iconography, absurdist themes and irreverent rhetoric — and you never quite know what is serious and what is the setup for a Groucho Marxist punchline.
Of course, the forces of the anti-White System could care less about what happened in Europe once upon a world war.. They do care about how the “myth” of Nazism can be exploited by their own agitprop.
But once you show that you can make mockery of the System’s myths, the path is open for White Nationalists to build a serious movement. It’s a matter of understanding how psychological warfare works.
Well stated. Much better than I was able to express it myself.
DS or ‘Cracked for Nazis’ as I jokingly call it. is not my style of communication, but, in a very short time of being exposed to it, I’ve had to consider my own reaction to it and whether that is the correct reaction.
I’ve come to see it as not only valuable, but necessary, to the cultural fight, precisely because it mocks and belittles the enemy’s propaganda.
Build a serious movement by supporting Traitor and Jew Ass-Kisser Trump? Okay lol! I bet 95% of your lot, have never handed-out Literature or attended a Demo – apart from one, from your Messiah Trump!
Yup, Ramz is totally deluded. Just jousting with windmills.
Nothing to say – apart from silly retorts? Pro-Capitalist idiots and Tranny supporters, we need the Alt-Kike like a bullet in the head! End The Fed and hang Rothschild!
I would like to add that there are many people in Eastern Europe that will never accept Nazism or the Gospel of Hitler.
And they are some of the least cucked white peoples left.
Why alienate people that you could be allies with by shouting about how Slavs are subhumans and that the Germanic race is the purest. It’s just autism at its finest.
Well, there was an article on DS this week in which AA referred to the Slavs as the lost hope for the white peoples, as they are the only ones standing up to the puppet Merkel.
You have a point but I don’t think that’s how it will play out.
The thing to remember is currently in the West there is *no* positive White identity allowed for White boys apart from castrating themselves.
So the unpoisoned ones are guaranteed to secretly move towards the outer forms of the most demonized White identities: NS, Crusader knights or Confederates. I could be wrong but I don’t think they’ll take any notice of the details of 1930s central european ethnic rivalries because they won’t be relevant.
Stop parroting Jew-Propaganda – the Waffen SS was the most “Diverse” fighting force in the World – at the time. Also, there were several “Slavic” SS divisions – so please less of your ignorance!
Good article. My beef with 1488 is that there are other, healthier traditions of natioanlism, and the false equation of nationalism with the genuine crimes of the Nazis is used to discredit nationalism. We should be able to say just as not all monarchies or democracies did good things, neither have all nationalisms, but that doesn’t mean nationalism is wrong in principle. Further, you think Nazis are apotheosis of evil, but communism was just as bad, and that doesn’t mean every policy aimed at helping poor is bad. They falsely equate nationalism with Nazism, which was in many respects a movement that did a great deal to hurt the German people because of its aggressive, nihilistic streams. So, that was then, and this is now. No reason to “self marginalize” as you say, nor embrace evil. Nationalism is rooted in justice, and national and political boundaries corresponding is a formula for world peace.
Genuine crimes of the Nazis??? Please name one? Unless you are referring to the Second World War – which was an atrocity in of itself – there are NONE! The problem with you ALT-KIKERS is this – you are too big for your boots, the success of Snake-Oil Salesman Trump has GONE to your head! As for the suggestion that WE 1488ers should unite under YOUR banner – is both insulting and ridicolous! Regarding Eastern Europe, never knew there was a dearth of NS activists in that region -strange as Blood and Honour, Hammerskins, Combat 18 etc are all very active over there! Perhaps, if your Jumped-up Keyboard activists engaged in real-world activity – you might realize that! 14 words
Lew take note.
Name one genuine Crime by National Socialism – or are you repeating the Jews-Media line? You can’t even defend your own position COWARDS!
Note to Lew
The fact that Hollywood nazis do exist and that version 1 of your line is better propaganda for most situations doesn’t make RamZPaul right with these constant attacks on 1488. It’s just not true that all Old Right radicals are Hollywood Nazis. William Pierce criticized Hollywood Nazis long before RamZPaul did. Old Right white nationalism was decades ahead of the alt right on many points.
I think his use of 1488 offends people because he uses it as an amorphous, all-purpose smear that relies heavily on innuendo so he doesn’t have to he too specific about who he is taking about. I’m sure there are fake Hollywood Nazis out there. It’s also a certainty there are plenty of enemies out there signing with fake alt right accounts. It doesn’t mean the whole alt right is an enemy effort.
The bottom line is that if he is going to accuse people of being fake, he should be prepared to have that mirror held up to himself. Maybe his agenda deserves a little more skeptical scrutiny than it seems to getting. Fomenting divide and conquer is a pretty standard enemy strategy after all. Maybe he wants to turn the alt right into cuckservatism version 2.0. I don’t know. Or maybe he just wants to stir up trouble to up his name visibility across the communities and garner extra views and comments for his formulaic videos.
Whatever his agenda, he’s fast approaching his shelf life. His one trick, poking fun at double standards, is getting pretty tired. If you’ve seen one of his videos, you’ve seen them all.
It probably won’t be long before Thorin Oakenshield writes like a clone of Pastor Lindstedt.
That would be great! We need more than one. He is a true American original. I still get a laugh at his coinages like “Tard Wee-Wee Sperg” (although I like the person it refers to).
Nobody can shame 14/88 mamzer fuktards
Thanks Doctor Greg:
Like RamzPawl I’m a sort of jewtube producer. But the following jewtube video is from March 3, 2016 when I was running for East Newton R-6 Skrule Bored and freaked out the entire county with my “qualifuckations” to be a skrule bored member. Over 7,000 views, 6500+ of them before [s]election day on April 5, 2016. I secured my place as #7 of 7 candidates, but I think that video actually helped me get a few more votes. Certainly had a number of people cum up to me at Rameys grocery store in Granby, and while none of them claimed to have voted for me — they certainly liked my style.
Anyways, Greg, look at it this way. If after making TraitorGlenn Miller run out of my office in July 2000 for fear of me killing the drunken Lumbee Melungeon rat, and pretending to be itz friend for four years (with the permission of Louis Beam and David Lane) and then cussing it out since 2004, there simply isn’t no shaming them mongrel and jewboy ZOGbots like TraitorGlenn Miller or Pierce’s re-conditioned 666 Order ZOGbux Bionic jewboy running a virtual colostomy bag.
All you can do is kick back and enjoy the inevitable train-wreck. Katja Lane told me that The Order gave TraitorGlenn Miller $250,000 and Fearless Leader the Phone-Book Fuerher & Rocket-Scientist William Pierce $400,000. When she bitched about how cum I didn’t snatch out a bowie knife or 38 revolver from my office desk drawer and plug the rat TraitorGlenn Miller before it got past my mom’s double-wide trailer front drawer, I told her that it was before I read TraitorGlenn Miller’s ghost-written book and killing anyone is problematic at best. Besides, she read TraitorGlenn Miller’s silly book. How cum the Order gave TraitorGlenn Miller a quarter-million in Order ZOGbux when on Chapter 3 TraitorGlenn Miller admitted running like a yellow dog at the Greensboro Incident of Nov. 1979? And what good did the $400,000 do Pierce other than to run a bowel Movement Elohim Shitty for CreaTards like another ZOG false-flag operation with the Reverend “Doctor” Robert Millar?
Hal Turner Financing. They get some jew to ghost-write a book, be it for TraitorGlenn Miller or the murderous jew pig Baal Finck, or give it a web page like Andre “the nigger” Anglin, sex tourist in the free gookistans. None of these jews or mamzers have a bit of Adamic conscience or morals, and their followers are the WORST of the mongrels and addled whiggers. RamzPawl can bitch about these critters all he wants, so can Colin Liddell or Richard Spenser or anyone else. I lived 45 miles west of TraitorGlenn Miller and if fear of Phineas Priests wouldn’t make the drunken melungeon rat stop snitching and shitting, or even the local sheriff’s deputy shooting the last of TraitorGlenn Miller’s drunken nutty non-homo male spawn as in 2008 then nothing will, especcially Alt-Right Establishment bitching.
Our little bowel Movement is a series of “warlords” in real and cyber-space. The best that can be expected is a sort of non-aggression pacts, and only when there is not much overlap between what is provided. There isn’t much overlap between your and my Movement constituencies, Greg. I made a non-aggression pact with Harold Covington in March 2009 and it holds because we both believe in warlordism and his is in the Northwest and mine is in the lower Midwest.
What would RamzPawl do with a typpycull Daily $permer mamzer fuktard anyways? I had a mangy yellow cur chase my 18-wheeler for a half-mile on a Mississippi Delta road back in 1995 and I didn’t see the point other than because the mutt liked chasing motor vehicles. What would that dog do if he caught my large car, anyways? Same point.
I need to sue the State of Missouri for refusing to let me run as an open White Supremacist for governor of Missouri. I got disqualified as a LibberToon candidate a month ago. The point isn’t that I have a chance of winning — the point is that since 2006 the State of Missouri has refused to hold open free fair honest [s]elections and thus is less honest about their legitimacy than Stalinist or Putinist Russia, China, North Korea, or Zimbabwe.
We already have [d]rule of warlord/sperglord/ZOGtard. All we need to do is to accentuate the decline and breakup. Ten Thousand Warlords.
Hail Victory !!!
Pastor Martin Luther Dzerzhinsky Lindstedt
Church of Jesus Christ Christian / Aryan Nations of Missouri
Disqualified LibberToon Candidate for Governor
Pastor, I agree with your detached, irenic stance. Different factions in the movement need to stop fighting with each other and turn their energies toward the enemy. The only thing that matters is whether there will be white people on this planet 200 years hence. We can’t sweat the small stuff.
Why is it the case that even in countries like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, which suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazis, there are nationalists who identify with National Socialism?
Very few, though I am not too sure about Ukraine. I encountered these skinhead “neo-Nazis” about 10 years ago. They were just a rebellious gang of teenagers acting a tough guy role they’ll grow out of. The few nationalists in Poland, etc, who seriously identify with Nazi Germany are seen as low status weirdos by everyone, including nationalists.
Poland is a good example. The vast majority of the country has sensible nationalist political preferences. The quickest way to marginalize them would be the Nazi linkage, but given Poland’s history, most people would laugh that off as a joke.
Probably why Poland is in such good shape now compared to many other European countries. People can’t guilt-trip them with that Nazi crap and they also suffered under the hands of the soviets so they’ve also developed a stronger immunity to marxist bullshit. If the rest of Europe can survive this current strand of leftism I think it will only make them stronger. That’s if they survive it.
I have know way of knowing for sure how much criticism RamZPaul has actually endured, but it does seem that he has little interest in staying above it. I would just hate to see him thrashed too much because he’s palatable for the general public and bring people into the movement.
As for Andrew Anglin, his work is brilliant and it would be a sad day if I thought RamZPaul and the creator of headlines like “Jewish Terrorists Demand Ape Leader Silence Their Enemies!” were not ultimately on the same team.
Some say we’re now living in the shadow of 9/11 and not WWII. I disagree, but by the time the average person comes to the conclusion that Hitler was right, it may be too late for us as a race. I’d love to feel free to start saying to the average White: Gee, if Germany had won WWII I don’t think Europe would be undergoing this invasion and assault. But I feel more comfortable and more effective by saying things like “good fences make good neighbors” or, “I don’t care what religion they practice just as long as they do it in their own country”, etc. In a way I’m being sneaky by not coming out and saying that I personally believe liberal democracy is sick, communism a failure and NS the only solution. All I can do is try to be a good neighbor to my fellow Whites and express my commonsense views on immigration and the problems with diversity.
As for the Holocaust, I like what the editor wrote a while ago when he said (to paraphrase): I’m more concerned with the current problems of my own people.
A generally very insightful and persuasive article. Thanks for the thought-provoking points! Especially the following paragraph, which struck my emotion deeply and searingly. What a power and overwhelming rhetoric of Greg! How envious I felt of that in contrast to my own humble and limited intellectual capacity! 🙂
“Are you worried that our race is in demographic decline? Only Nazis would worry about that! Do you want to secure our borders against criminals and terrorists? Only Nazis would want to do that! Do you think it is crazy that Sweden, Germany, and other European countries have imported thousands of rapists from Africa and the Middle East? Only a Nazi would care about that! Do you think that your country should prefer citizens to foreigners, workers to parasites, decent people to criminals? Only Nazis would think that way! Do you think that whites should start saying “no” to unjust and crazy non-white demands, such as Black Lives Matter protesters who basically demand an end to enforcing laws against black criminals? Only a Nazi would do that. You don’t want to be a Nazi, do you? Then stop protesting against policies that will destroy white people. After all, the only way for white people to atone for the crimes of Nazis is by ceasing to exist.”
However, to be utterly frank, I do have a slight problem and some question in regard to the logic of this presentation. I hope I could put it as concise as possible in my following statement:
It is my firm belief as well as all that of all White Nationalism advocates and supporters that all the facts stated in parallel in this very brilliant paragraph penned by Greg are concerned with the very survival of the White race, aren’t they? I believe everybody here agrees with me on that observation.
Therefore, what’s the big deal if Hitler also had espoused and advanced those crucial ideas? Even by taking a neutral and not necessarily pro-NS stance, if Hitler and NS had been such staunch supporter and defender of these ideas, were they wrong? Hitler’s standing on the ideas only makes him an ally, not an enemy or a liability. To put it in another word, we (the White people) want to live our own life, ensure our existence, and want to prevent our genocide at the hands of our enemies, which certainly is the overriding principle and the greatest consensus of White Nationalism, so if Hitler also believed that and did his part for that goal, does that necessarily make our goal illegitimate or unjustifiable? I really don’t think so. Say, taking a big step backward, even if Hitler were a evil and monster (which is the enemy’s talk and we know in our hearts that he is not), if the survival of the White race and the prevention of its genocide, an irrefutably right and legitimate cause, is itself at stake, then association with Hitler’s name shall not tarnish it or make it untenable. On the contrary, the logic still stand and we can even move one step further to claim Hitler was right for that logic per se and we can prove it easily with historical facts and current affairs.
Hence all the arguments aiming at dismissing, disqualifying, dislodging or underplaying Hitler and NS from the WN movement strikes me as not only timid, devious and dishonest, but also ultimately flaccid, ineffectual and countervailing. Some wish to use such half-measures to circumvent or outwit our ruthless and cunning enemy, but I believe it won’t work because such tactic, by refusing to go to the roots, has only limited effect and can still be dissolved and dispersed by the enemy. Imagine, if Hitler and NS is rehabilitated, all the enemy advantages they currently hold over us will fall like a house of cards which they are indeed. With patient and effective educating with facts, truths, and sound reasoning, it can be done by us. Yes, we can!
The 1488ers do a lot of good in their own way, which I’m sure deep down you realize when you’re not busy being such a faggot writing giant TLDRs. You should be smarter than this shit-tier condescension, if not ramzpaul whose limited intelligence is discernable immediately when looking at his face. As has been pointed out many times before, the left doesn’t waste time attacking their more radical elements. Isn’t it time the right learned that lesson, or are we going to spend another decade on this bullshit?
Since American David Lane came up with “The 14 Words” slogan and meme, can we at least keep that, or is it too hard-edged for the NiceWhites as well?
I like the 14 words just fine.
“Is this “mainstreaming”? No, I am a vanguardist. Mainstreamers want us to change our principles. They want us to be more like the mainstream. I want to keep our principles and change the mainstream to be more like us.” And I wish more of us would have the courage and conviction to echo that sentiment.
i think we need both operating as parallel streams – which is what the left did.
No they didn’t. The mainstream left never tried to reign in their radical element, because they always wanted to go further left. That is what they call “progress”. On the other side, the mainstream right has always been apologetic, distancing, denying and cutting itself off with regard to the radical right. This is why the right has lost every battle it is conceivable to lose against the left.
This is true of the Left. They might deny that they belong to the radical fringe but will say that the radicals make very interesting criticisms and useful distinctions, throw light on problems, etc. At most, they would qualify or add a few caveats.
Islam, is similar. “We are not the bombers, violence is not Islam… but we understand their motives” etc.
Yet the true Right is *not* simply the polar opposite of the Left, nor is it European Islam. This is worth remembering. We are qualitatively different, have a different appeal, and must proceed in our own way. Our weaknesses are not their weaknesses, our strengths are not their strengths.
That’s pretty much textbook cucking.
The “we’re above all that; we may not win the fight but we’ll have our dignity” pose.
No, you won’t have your dignity, because you will be vanquished.
Anyway, what dignity?
Jews run Western society and rub our noses in our “sinfulness” whilst claiming that they are all sweetness and light.
You call that dignity?
Either you have the stomach for the fight or you are afraid of being called names by your enemies.
The belief that Right and Left, so to speak, are balancing, cosmic opposites is a crippling, stultifying belief, the legacy of Whiggism.
If you want a cuckold, its someone who believes “but the Left do it too!” is a justification of anything. The contemporary Left is part of a massive, multi-tiered structure – without the support of which they would literally drown in their own effluent.
Ramzpaul uses this “1488 types” creation as a strawman, to signal to the mainstream.
In that sense he’ll state something like ‘unlike these 1488 types, I don’t hate other races’.
This essay, which I agree with on many points, unnecessarily dignifies his cucky signaling.
In general, I see little difference between the 1488ers and the SJWs. Both sets seem to be totally emersed in their respective prescribed dogmas to the point where anyone challenging it with inconvenient truths will be screamed at. Both sets approve of the state apparatus that spies on, persecutes and prosecutes anyone even slightly deviating from the dogma.
That said, Ramzpaul, who I had a lot of time for in the past, seems to have gone full-blown cuckservative. Why feel the need to take a photo of himself with a Jewess? Was it to show how liberal he is? Was it to be petulant? Was it to piss off the 1488ers? But he must have known it would piss off a lot of others on the right too. Have a look at that photo. Both of them have that stupid SJW petulant grin on their faces.
Ramzpaul used to be funny, but he became preachy about the same time as he went cuckservative. Coincidence? He also started making wholesale attacks on various European groups. Being British, I remember his diatribes against British people very well, especially the one about the people of Rotherham – that they did nothing because they were afraid of being called racist. No, people actually did try to do something and were arrested, including one father who went round to try to free his young daughter from an Asian paedophile gang. Ramzpaul cannot then start getting whiny when people have a go back at him. He is using the word “1488er” to cover anyone who disagrees with him. He has made a rod for his own back.
The Current Year Alt Right has very few valid insights to its name that were not made years or even decades ago by the better representatives of the Old Right.
Here, for example, is Old Right ultra-radical William Luther Pierce denouncing Hollywood Nazis as a liability to white interests long before there was an Alt Right.
Rather than trafficking in amorphous, ill-defined smears, Pierce mentions the 1488ers of his time by name. He basically shows how this issue can be handled without bending to the mainstream, taking pictures with Jews to signal — what exactly? — or by going cuckservative 2.0.
The ‘Alt Right’ can be better described as the ‘Electronic Right’: the voice of the average White person who opposes the mass immigration agenda, wants to live around other Whites but live in a society where there are repercussions for having such a position.
In a typical comment section you would have individuals larping, individuals talking about racial difference, individuals talking about jews, individuals talking about leftists, individuals writing down their own theories on why multiracial society has been able to take place. Some people are traditional right wing racial realists while others are more National Socialist orientated. All in all people cooperate ok and disagreements, even heated ones, are healthy ones between allies.
In a matter of a couple of weeks after the Brietbart article there’s this arbitrary dividing line in this mostly American ‘Electronic Right’ based on the term ’14/88′ which has become this new way of defining people or just as a pejorative.
It’s interesting how unlike RamZPaul the Pastor is very specific about who he criticizes within the 1488 sector. There is a big difference between his style of criticism and RamZPaul’s. The pastor names specific targets whereas Paul favors broad-brush smearing about “1488” without ever saying who exactly he is talking about. He uses the term for innuendo against many more people than just a few old right vanguardists from yesteryear (ex: people who object to him promoting figures like Roosh).
A year ago in June 2015 I would not have believed that in a mere 12 months we would be where we are now. When change comes, sometimes it comes at you very fast, like that old commercial of the father pushing the small boy on a swing and in an instant the boy is all grown up, swings back and knocks the father on his ass. Who is to say that the 1488 will be such a liability going forward? Why is this a foregone conclusion? The boy on the swing is also a good metaphor of the pendulum, that giant unseen force, part social, part political and part spiritual that swings through societies sweeping up the unthinking normies en masse. The 1488 are not going anywhere and I would rather have them as allies than enemies. The Jew right, er um I mean the New Right of the late 1960’s Kristol, Buckley and company conducted purges in order to rid the GOP of the John Birchers, Libertarians and the Ayn Rand Objectivists. I would prefer the Alt Right not follow in their footsteps and instead make room at the table for the more eccentric members of our family. Who knows what the landscape will look like in a year or two, the 1488 may self police, tone down a bit and remove the agitating Jewish moles who have infiltrated their ranks. They may mature into formidable movement in years to come.
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