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Are We Really Heading To A Civil War?

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Morris V. de Camp pondered the prospects of Civil War 2.0 in the pages of Counter-Currents this week, comparing our current situation to the tumultuous 1860s. While we’re experiencing high levels of social rancor, there’s little chance it will turn into another Civil War.

Here’s why a civil war is not likely to occur anytime soon.

No Real Regional Differences 

The Civil War pitted two sections of the country that were clearly divided on the map. Where would that happen in our country today?

Some may see Texas or the South seceding, but those observations ignore how much Texas and southern cities are just like Northern cities. Southern urbanites vote Democrat, support liberal policies, and uphold a cosmopolitan identity. They’re not going to fight and die for their state. Many of them move around the country and don’t even have a loyalty to the city they dwell in, much less their state.

The Civil War South was largely united — with the exception of Appalachia and a few other pockets of Unionism. The few major urban areas fully supported secession, as well as the majority of elites. There is no region in America today with this kind of uniformity to secede and wage war against another part of the country.

The divide in current America is rural vs. urban; not North vs. South or East vs. West. This makes a civil war hard when the sides may exist in the same cul-de-sacs throughout America. Strong regional identities are a typical ingredient in civil wars, and that just doesn’t exist today. A farmer in California has more in common with a mechanic in rural Alabama and the same goes for an accountant in San Francisco and a lawyer in Atlanta. Regional identity, for the most part, doesn’t extend past the local sports team.

There was also a steady buildup of regional secessionist threats before 1861. Some New Englanders wanted to secede during the War of 1812 and this feeling culminated in the notorious Hartford Convention. The South threatened to secede from the Nullification Crisis of 1832 onward. Secession was a popular idea and was rooted in the idea that the states were voluntarily a part of the Union. That idea died with the hundreds of thousands who perished in the Civil War. The states are seen less as their own polities but as components of one single polity.

No Rival Elites or Institutions

The Confederacy was built by existing state governments, led by the region’s prominent pre-war politicians, earned the loyalty of native son military officers, and was supported by nearly all Southern institutions (churches, militias, etc.). The likelihood of these institutions and figures supporting a civil war is close to zero.

State governments depend on federal largesse and don’t want to alienate the urbanites among them, there is no Republican equivalent to a John C. Calhoun paving the way for disunion, and the military and nearly every other institution backs Black Lives Matter. There are no separatist movements within American churches to oppose BLM and Antifa. In the antebellum era, several Protestant denominations were split apart by slavery and many military officers remained fervently loyal to their region. We aren’t seeing anything like that in our day.

The only institutions that seem to side with the Right are rural sheriffs, police unions, and the limp-wristed Republican Party. It’s unlikely this combined force could comprise an effective bloc in a civil war against the combined power of every corporation, every church, the military, the Deep State, and the Democrats.

It would be extremely difficult to assemble a working government and military from scratch. The South built on what it had and was blessed with experienced military officers who could form an army. The American colonies also had these same features during the revolution. The Right doesn’t have any elites or institutions to create a functioning government or military in the time of chaos. The only hope would be for states to secede, which is unlikely.

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Some on our side hope for a military coup to restore proper order. It’s laughable to think the American military is capable of a Right-wing coup. During the Floyd unrest, the Pentagon disobeyed President Trump and kept federal troops from riot control. If the military launched a coup, it would be to secure the Left’s interests or keep us in some third world hellhole. It would not be launched to crush Left-wing riots.

These institutions are crucial to leading and organizing people into secession or conflict. The Confederacy would have collapsed instantly without the state governments remaining in place and church leaders and other elites persuading Southerners to accept a new national consciousness. There must be some foundations from which a new state to emerge.

There are examples of victorious sides in civil wars lacking elites from the preexisting order. The Bolsheviks were outsiders who won, yet the country descended into mass slaughter and famine. It’s not particularly appealing for Americans to starve to death so they can get a new government that will still starve them to death.

Lack Of Alternative Identities

This is more of a problem for the Right than the Left. The Left is able to unify itself as a nonwhite-based coalition that opposes the historic American. Their identity is pretty clear, but what are they opposed to? The institutions side with them and the American Empire spreads their ideology around the globe. They’re not fighting anyone; they’re exerting their power over the populace.

They have a clear identity — but what about the Right? Some say it’s white identity, yet only a few thousand people would even be alright with associating with that. Support for gun rights is shared by all on the Right, but it’s not an identity to build a country around. Support for Trump? Maybe, but the big guy doesn’t seem capable of serving as a revolutionary hero. Support for the government against the rioters? Not a chance — the government stands with the rioters over ordinary citizens. Regional identities, as emphasized heavily before, aren’t really in play here.

It’s hard to have a civil war if you don’t know what your own side is for. Confederates fought for the South and their home state. The Right will fight for. . . Trump to keep tweeting? There aren’t clear identities here, and politics haven’t polarized enough to where people will fight for “conservatism” or libertarian values.

The People Are Too Content

Over 50 million Americans have filed unemployment claims since March. Our economy is still reeling from coronavirus. Millions of Americans live with student loan debt and other crushing burdens. It’s much harder to reach the American Dream for young people than their parents and grandparents.

Yet, the “Good Life” is still available to them. Americans, particularly white Americans, still believe they can obtain a comfortable middle-class existence with the nice suburban house, two cars, and a summer vacation. They may be upset with the riots and the way the country is headed, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to pick up an AR-15 and demand revolution. The Floyd riots are something away from their cul-de-sac. The effects of the riots may persuade them to avoid downtown and move a bit further away from the city. It’s not going to make them throw away their middle-class existence to join in a bloody and uncertain conflict. They’ll be missing their timeshare as they sit in the trench.

The Left-wing mobs don’t threaten the Good Life for most whites. They cancel those who stand in their way or publicly criticize them, but they’ll leave the ones who kneel or stay silent alone. Whites know they can still enjoy the fruits of bourgeois comfort if they just keep their head down. If they won’t even interrupt their company’s diversity training, they’re not gonna sign up for civil war.

There is one new factor that may make people a bit angrier and restless. America may go without sports and concerts for the rest of the year — possibly even longer. That may make people focus on more of the troubles around them, but it’s more likely they’ll just watch re-runs of the 2011 NFL season and find other diversions.

America is still the most prosperous country in the world. We’re nowhere close to the sufferings of 1789 France, 1917 Russia, or 1932 Germany. The Good Life still reigns supreme for most white Americans.

America will likely see more unrest, more anarcho-tyranny, more anti-white discrimination, more polarization, and more blatant political corruption in the After-Floyd Era. But as long as Americans can live the Good Life, the institutions remain devoted to the present system, and whites only see themselves as individuals, no civil war will erupt.

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  1. Bernie
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    In the late 1990s there was a book called “Civil War 2” by Thomas Chittum. It was advertised in every single hard right magazine and newsletter.

    It wasn’t bad, but it never really answered where or how the other side – our side – was going to start fighting back. H mentioned militias but even back then everyone smart knew they were mostly a media hoax or traps run by feds.

    For a VERY brief moment after the 2016 election, I thought the cops and military would be called out by Trump and that could spark a war.

    • Moon Man
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

      What are you talking about? Firstly Chittum was spot on with his predictions currently 30 out of his list of 36 things to look out for for Civil War II have already happened or are currently happening.
      Secondly what you guys don’t seem to understand that is most civil wars start off with small scale violence spiraling out control there doesn’t have to be a grand declaration.

      • Henry Scrope
        Posted July 25, 2020 at 2:13 am | Permalink

        If the tinder is dry it only takes a small spark.

  2. Bartolo
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    The “no regional differences”-argument is largely refuted by the Spanish civil war. Other than the Basque Country and Catalonia, there were no real geographical fault lines there, either… and still, the war happened (and the Basque country and Catalonia ended up on different sides of the conflict, with the Basques “taking” the side of Franco). But all in all, I agree. I see some awareness rising, but cuckery still reigns supreme.

    • Bunana
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

      Fat chance of a Franco figure emerging from the time-serving, bootlicking, civilian-killing, drone-bombing US military top brass! There seem to be definite fascist tendencies among elite fighters like the SEALs, however.

    • KLukor
      Posted July 28, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      Yes, that seems to be the main criticism of this article. We have trouble seeing past our own so-called “Civil War,” which was not a civil war in the proper sense of the term, but rather a classic war of secession. At no time did the South seriously consider staging a coup in Washington to take over the U.S. government. Because it was so geographically-based, the war was less “messy” than the Spanish Civil War, but it was messier than most Americans assume, all the same. There will be no official declaration of war this time, with flags, and regiments, and state-funded armies. This will be VERY messy, and it’s likely that people will deny its existence until it reaches their own porches; it won’t matter how “comfortable” most people are, but how determined their enemies are to make them uncomfortable.

  3. HamburgerToday
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Sadly, this is a terrible analysis. Overall, the assumptions seems to be that today’s situation does not match up with some preconcieved idea of how ‘civil war works, that it cannot happen. The author could be right. But they at least ought to consider that they could be wrong.

    No Real Regional Differences: Aren’t ‘rural’ and ‘urban’ territorial spaces with different cultures? The assumption is that this does not rise to the level of ‘region’ sufficient for ‘regional differences’. As for ‘sharing the same cul-de-sacs’ as a delimiter of war, see the Boznia-Servian war(s). Proximity is not only no deterrent, it is a facilitator of violence.

    No Rival Elites or Institutions: I’m not sure what to make of this. There’s no reason a civil war cannot accompany a revolution in political organization. Isn’t that what happened in the US in the late 1770’s? Most people function quite nicely without most forms of government.

    Lack Of Alternative Identities: How about ‘normal person’? As for ‘White’ as an alternative identity, I think the author underestimates how many people at this time identify as ‘White Nationalist’ and, furthermore, how many would do so if there was an advantage to doing so.

    The People Are Too Content: If this were true, Trump would never have gotten elected. That he accomplished nothing has demoralized some and radicalized others. The latter are the source of revolutionary action.

    The Civil War 2.0 has already started, just as it started in the 1860’s: Nullification. Nullfication began with immigration ‘sanctuary’ locales which spawned gun ownership ‘sanctuary’ locales. I expect this kind of nullification to continue, mostly below the radar for some considerable time, with locales asserting independence and ‘self rule’ for different reasons. Long before there is blood, there is a turning away.


    • Robert Hampton
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      The American Revolution was led by many colonial elites and many of the preexisting structures fully endorsed the Revolution. It wasn’t random individuals just deciding to head to Philadelphia and the people suddenly recognized their authority. People didn’t function well in Civil War Russia with all the institutions wiped out.

      Only 15% of whites view their racial identity as important while the majority of every other group says their racial identity is important. What would make whites think being a white nationalist is an advantage in a civil war? is there some secret WN army that’s ready to emerge and protect them?

      Voting is very different from deciding to give up everything to fight and die for a new regime. You’re saying millions of people are ready to give up a middle class lifestyle to live in a trench to secure the ethnostate. There’s a degree of discontent, but it’s not leading to violent revolution from the Right.

      How are we in a civil war when only one side is showing up? Localities choosing to ignore a few laws while still depending on federal subsidies is not turning away. Besides gun sanctuaries, there is no revolt from the Right.

      • HamburgerToday
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        I don’t think the Right has been struggling effectively (or much at all) because the American Right has been dominated by ‘conservatives’ who basically worship capital and are virtually all Zionists. Most members of the ‘respectable’ Right don’t even believe in governing. The anti-White forces, however, have (a) law, (b) the courts and (c) 70+ years of ‘community organizing’ (going back to the Communists of the early 1900s). Arrayed against such forces, what sorts of rebellion(s) are likely. I see the kind that I’d think I’d see under such circumstances. As far as I can tell, we really don’t know what is going on. For some considerable time, Whites have simply retreated and, in doing so, they are on the verge of being a powerless, disenfranchised and despised minority in the land of their forebears. I think ‘White Nationalism’ offers a coherent worldview as well as a focused political ‘program’ (ethnostate) around which to gather and direct the concerns of Whites (and non-Whites who like Whites).

        • Gnillik Groyper
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

          What do you mean by “an ethnostate for whites and non-whites who like whites”? An ethnostate where non-whites who are fond of whites are allowed to live in?

          • HamburgerToday
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

            Let me first quote Mike Enoch from a recent podcast: My vision is power over our own lives, over our own countries. It doesn’t necessarily mean kicking out every person that is not of our race. Or treating them badly. That’s a slander that’s used against us, the idea that we want to to that. No, what we do want is sovereignty in our own countries, for our people. Guests can come in, but they can’t disrupt that sovereignty. That won’t be allowed. That’s what I see as the endgame of this.

            This was in response to a question about White political organizing and its ends.

            So, the answer is ‘Yes’. Non-Whites could live in a White ethnostate. My view is that ‘racial purists’ can have their own space(s) — reservations — within the White ethnostate(s). There are those among the White race that never want to see a non-White every again.

            • Jaego
              Posted July 26, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

              So what do you and Enoch mean be “our”? Sounds to me like your conceding “our” and thus admitting existential defeat, one that will lead to a complete defeat in time.

              If we don’t have the right to exist for ourselves, then we will cease to exist in the long run.

  4. John Wilkinson
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    All good points, but I’ll link to this entry that Hunter Wallace put up a few days ago at Occidental Dissent. A young Yugoslavian woman comparing the situation in the US to that if Yugoslavia, Bosnia etc in the 90s

    obviously there was a lot of economic turmoil in Eastern Europe in the 90s, due to the iron curtain opening up and the economic/social collapse of communism.

    So it’s different. But the mechanics of the civil war were definitely ethnic rather than regional, and neighbors were fighting neighbors, towns and villages fighting towns and villages.

    I don’t know how Coronavirus will play out, but if the economic situation worsens, who knows what can happen.

    All that really needs to start happening is Antifa and BLM moving out of the inner city into white neighborhoods. A lot of attitudes could shift very quickly. Even some of the elites who are pushing all of this might have second thoughts if their gated communities are invaded.

    • Norman
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

      “All that really needs to start happening is Antifa and BLM moving out of the inner city into white neighborhoods” …

      And an effort to provoke the expansion of violence would resemble partisan warfare. An occupying force tends to neutralize the occupied populace, through limited terror, real and perceived, and by making examples which keep everyone else in line. The partisans use guerilla tactics, sabotage, assassination, to provoke increasingly brutal reprisals against the populace, forcing them to choose to side with the partisans, or face certain death. Nasty business, but perhaps necessary.

  5. Nova Rhodesia
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Many valid points, especially with people being more or less contented. Much may depend on how much the Left wants to push and try to get away with.
    For instance, what if that battalion-size column of New Black Panthers decided to try to damage that Stone Mountain monument? Or even Mount Rushmore? What if someone tried to stop them? What happens when states like Illinois start going bankrupt? What if the dollar collapses? Things can spiral out of control pretty fast like they did in Rwanda or Yugoslavia.
    There is a lot more uncertainty than certainty at this point.

  6. Dan
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Excellent points, but what happens when BLM with endless funding from corporate America and under the direction of Susan Rosenberg sets its sights on the suburbs and farming areas, and particularly if the incoming Democratic admin led by some homicidally anti-White black woman sets about confiscating guns? The lack of cohesiveness you mention is compounded by the fact that DJT’s base has traitors at its back in the form of the Republican Party who may prove a worse enemy than BLM or Antifa to the front. I’d say we need to prepare for war now and not assume it can’t happen because we’re not organized.

    If the State continues sanctioning and promoting these riots (given the otherwise inexplicable police capitulation), will truckers boycott cities like Seattle, Portland, and NYC? Already truckers are losing income hand over fist sitting in traffic in the vicinity of these hellholes, so the prospect of losing their lives over it might have them dropping the keys in the nearest mailbox and heading home to protect their families from BLM in the heartland. At some point cops and utility workers might abandon these cities, and there’s no way the military can restore order or maintain supply lines into war zones across America. One reason the military stabbed the president in the back may be the fear on the part of the Obama Pentagon’s costumed martinets that POCs in the ranks might go around the barricades to side with the rioters although from a strategic perspective this should be subtly encouraged at the first opportunity.

    We all now realize we have a duty to be armed and capable shooters to defend out homes, but what about defending the local food stores, gas stations, and access roads if the local police, instead of putting up road blocks, welcome BLM into town with a motorcade before taking a knee, and, à la Camp of the Saints, the children are let out of school, lining the streets waving BLM flags and copies of White Fragility while earning special credit from kindergarten on up for denouncing their parents as gun owners and racists? I don’t think planning for this eventuality can be avoided, especially given the suddenness and overwhelming consequences of the CV19 hoax and riots.

  7. Nemesis
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    There may not be a Civil War II, but there could still be secession –and it could be started by the Left. There is an interesting book: “American Secession” by F. H. Buckley (he is or was an advisor to the Trump family, actually). One scenario he discusses is that Trump wins a second term, and then California votes to secede. Then we could file for a peaceful no-fault divorce, as Greg proposed.

  8. Josef K.
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Does the author believe that the slow motion nature of the revolution we are undergoing is the key to its success?

    I do.

    If you’d tried to turn the USA of 1960 into the USA of 2020 within a two-term presidency, it would have been impossible. But within two generations it’s happened. And there’s no going back apparently.

    All my friends, family and acquaintances are beginning to suffer. They’re withdrawing from modernity and succumbing to nostalgia, often without knowing it.

    A colleague is watching all the X-Files, for my wife it’s Dawson’s Creek, for me it’s classic noir movies.

    Yet I’m the only one on here. If questioned directly, they’d never accept that their behaviour indicates any problem with contemporary society. To do that would be to admit the truth and open Pandora’s box. Revealed preferences speak volumes, though.

    What to do, then? Has anyone considered buying land overseas and starting afresh? As a new nation? I appreciate the difficulties, but if the last 60 years is repeated in the next 60, there’ll be nothing and no one to save.

  9. John Wilkinson
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Something worth noting:

    I believe that a good number of people on the political left, the “extreme” left that buys into drag queens reading books to kids and that kind of nonsense (lets say this is 10% of the population)…I believe they feel that America is irredeemable (for different reasons) just as the far right does. I believe they are immensely open minded to secession, and I think their population is largely clustered on the west coast and in New England (with the obvious purple haired, woke scold cat women scattered throughout the country).

    I believe they seethe with anger at the fact that they have to share breathing air with people they consider “knuckle draggers”. I can just envision these people grinding their teeth when a pickup truck drives by them on the highway with hunting decals or Trump bumper stickers.

    They’d just assume we all die, but I think they’d gladly form a new country (or countries) in California-Oregon-Washington and New England if they could. Given the right incentives, people would happily migrate to the regions that most align with their views.

    I don’t necessarily think this would be along purely racial lines. I’d have to argue that we might have to accept that the divorce be more idealogical than racial, and that some socially conservative blacks might prefer being a small minority in a quasi-fascist country than being part of a ruling class in a hyper-liberal rainbow-dildo society.

    There’s been a lot of talk in the wignat realm of our circles about a “left-right” alliance. I don’t think there can be an alliance, but I do think that if their 10% of the population was in agreement with our 10%, the (more or less) far right who is open to Balkanization, then that 20% of the overall population is a pretty loud and convincing voice.

  10. Archer
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Interesting, I don’t think we are close to any kind of war either. while the things going on are shocking, it’s business as usual in 97% of the country.

    However, the us civil war was not really a civil war. It was a war of conquest by the north over the south. I’m not showing bias here, only a true civil war is a struggle between two factions to control a single geographic entity. The south never sought to control the north. It was a war of secession, more like a revolutionary war or rebellion.

    We may see something like the Glorious Revolution in England, wherein elites arbitrarily change the constitution and system of government without our consent. And then yokels will take up arms to resist and then be crushed in something like Ruby Ridge writ large. That I could see happening.

  11. Fake name
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Fun fact: The United States will be the first country in history to go from being majority white to majority non-white.

    We’re in unchartered waters. Nobody can predict where this goes.

    • Captain John Charity Spring MA
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

      Personally I think the US will have to do nuclear disarmament. Much like South Africa.

      • Henry Scrope
        Posted July 25, 2020 at 2:15 am | Permalink

        RSA handed over it’s atomics to the USA, who do you think the USA could hand their’s over to.

  12. Sage
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Guess we can write of the USA then and pray for Europe.

  13. 4th Gen War
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    >rural vs urban
    It’s not this. It’s Cosmopolitan vs White American Nationalist.

    >no real regional differences
    You are correct, but that doesn’t matter. Warfare has not been opposing territorial armies fighting each other for 50 years. We are in a new era of warfare.
    Read 4th Generation Warfare Handbook by Lind

    >During the Floyd unrest, the Pentagon disobeyed President Trump and kept federal troops from riot control. If the military launched a coup, it would be to secure the Left’s interests or keep us in some third world hellhole. It would not be launched to crush Left-wing riots.

    You are correct. The US military is completely subverted.
    But, the American Military is operating as a 2nd generation warfare fight force. It is obsolete.

    >It would be extremely difficult to assemble a working government and military from scratch

    You don’t need a formal army to win wars. That is 1st, 2nd and even 3rd generation warfare thinking

    >Lack Of Alternative Identities

    Strongest case you’ve made so far. Whoever cracks the code to unite the Right, will have the keys to the kingdom.
    There is a major schism between the Communists and Liberals on the Left, but the Right’s schisms are more stratified (wignats, nazis, libertarians, american nationalists, christian identity, neo-conservatives, mormons, fascists of all types, even Nazbols to some extent identify on the colloquial “Right” more so than the “Left”). The problem is the colloquial definition of “Right Wing”. Richard Spencer and Milton Friedman could not be more opposites yet they are both “Right Wing”

    >The (white) People Are Too Content

    Good points as well, but the younger generation is seeing how rotten things are getting in regards to censorship both online and IRL and this eats away at them every day. It’s a philosophical rot that will cause people to snap.
    You underestimate how few people it takes to wrest control of a country.
    You don’t need a majority at all. You only need probably 3 to 5% of the American Population becoming ruthlessly violent. And as this ideology invades the schools and websites even more, eventually something is going to give.
    All of these things are piles of dry hay. And you are correct just these things will not force people to start a war. Inert sure, but very susceptible to 1 spark.
    I don’t know what will set it off, but America is a tinderbox.

  14. Starboard
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Interesting how nobody thought to mention an obvious catalyst of internal rebellion or civil war — a military debacle.

    I guess all those flyovers and war movies have put such an idea out of bounds.

    But I ask you to consider what another Few years of a Democratic administration might do to our already diverse, gay, and female armed forces.

    And that sooner or later somebody somewhere is going to size us up and decide to invite us to our own Adrianople.

  15. Afterthought
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    No Civil War is a good thing. Let’s just separate. Or were you banking on a Slow Cleanse?

  16. Right_On
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Re “The Civil War pitted two sections of the country that were clearly divided on the map” :

    As a counter-example take the English Civil War.
    Royalist [rightist?] areas included the countryside and the less economically developed areas.
    Parliament [antifa] was strong in the industrial centres, ports, and economically-advanced regions.

    Sounds like the USA today!

  17. Don
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    I think the Bolshevik Revolution is a more relevant historical precedent than the Civil War of 1861-1865. This is a reign of terror that will be unopposed and even supported by the main stream media, the Democratic party and local political machines. White conservatives have lost the protection of almost all law including the 1st Amendment. Forget “stand your ground” and the “Castle Doctrine.” Whites don’t even have the protection of the 1st Amendment. The real Civil War is already over and we’ve lost. The enemy is mopping up.

    The best thing we can hope for is that truckers refuse to go into the inner cities.

    • Lord Shang
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:28 am | Permalink

      That’s a pathetic comment in a nation with 170 million whites, more than half of whose adults voted for Trump in 2016. Most whites – most people – are apathetic losers. This is where political leadership makes the difference. I think Right-whites have not yet begun to fight. They just need to organize, and that requires some degree of centralized leadership. And, as I have said for decades, and De Camp makes clear in his recent essay, we must change the “moral narrative” ( I would say we must change the ethics of race for whites). History is speeding up, people are taking sides (a squishy moderate liberal friend of mine votes for Trump; another has recently gone full BLM), a conflict is coming, and we can easily win it as long as the armed forces split up, with some supporting us (as I think many will, esp many of the best) such that we can keep control of the rural agricultural lands. If so, we will win handily, at least in this decade (after several more decades of mass immigration, however, the situation will be hopeless except via white geographic ingathering and eventual state secession – something I continually advocate here at CC)).

  18. Alexandra O.
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    I’m myself living in a suburban cul-de-sac, about two blocks long. I didn’t plan it that way, but a friend got the house as a divorce settlement, and asked if I knew anyone who would like to rent it. I got together with 2 others, and here I am, ‘comfortable’ in suburbia near L.A. It’s proved to be a godsend during this Corona Virus mess, as I am older so I must remain inside 98% of the time. The neighborhood is mostly Chinese and Korean, very quiet, very clean, no traffic except normal ‘leaving for work and shopping’. So, I am surely not ‘a racist’, but I do believe the biggest divide in this country is racial, mainly between Black and White, with Hispanics sitting on the sidelines, cheering on the Blacks, and waiting to see who wins. Since the Blacks and Hispanics are both allied with the Democrats and thus its far left wing, ever since Bernie, Warren and the four congresswomen from hell have taken over the party. If I were younger, I would move as far away from the majority of Blacks and Hispanics as I could, but even that is becoming problematical since the Democrats are pushing ‘welcoming committees’ into every city and small town in America to in order to ‘resettle’ our dear immigrants, which are now even including African Blacks who can smell the piles of money all the way from Timbuktu! I’m still not sure this is racism, I think it is just common sense to close our borders to these massive invasions. Since our border troops are recalled to battle the anarchy in our major cities, I can only imagine the border is unguarded. So, where on earth (in America) can we go, or do we have to flee to the small villages of Eastern Europe to keep our sanity, never mind comfort. For now, I would hope that several groups of individual White Nationalists could get together and rent in the suburbs as I did. Yes, it’s 3 grand a month for a 4-bed, 3 bath with cathedral ceilings, but worth it. This would give us a chance to breathe safely and plan, incognito, for how we can really create ‘safe spaces’ for ourselves. America is still filled with unknown, rural cubby-holes. The Aryan Nation kind of way overdid it up near Coeur d’Alene, so we sure have to do better than that. And do remember that most minorities are not fond of forests, and wouldn’t choose to live there. Well, at least something to think about.

    • Nova Rhodesia
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:07 am | Permalink

      Southern California does not strike me as a particularly safe place just in terms of overall demographics. There are definitely parts of the country that are far more defensible and are nearly uniformly white. Of course they may not feel like home if you’ve lived in California for a long time.
      How do the Asians on your street feel about BLM and this civil unrest, if I may ask?

  19. Lord Shang
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:10 am | Permalink

    Hampton is usually a very solid writer but this blackpill effort is very weak – maybe the worst Hampton piece I’ve ever read. His entire argument could have been boiled down to two ideas (even sentences): there won’t be a civil war because Americans are no longer regionally based (put another way, no longer have strong ethnogeographic identities), and our lives are still modally too good financially (but only financially, I’d note) to risk insurrection.

    First, here is what I posted on De Camp’s piece (Hampton must have read this comment):

    ‘Lord Shang
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    I don’t really know myself. But I predict, FWIW, that we have about two decades until full scale civil war. The psychic trigger will be the 204o Census revealing that whites are now a minority in the US (the actual spark will of course be some new Floyd-style event). This won’t be anything like CW1, a War Between (Sovereign) States. This will be a combination of mostly “life goes on” in much of white rural America, with a Hobbesian “warre of all against all” in cities and suburbs, at least for a short while. What de Camp has overlooked in this otherwise excellent essay is the most important aspect of “logistics”: maintaining sufficient nutrition. This is obviously where the White Right has some advantage, given that farmers are mostly Middle American (and not SJW types), and farming communities are overwhelmingly white (yes, there are always a large number of Latino farmworkers, but most of these will not join into what will be for them an almost incomprehensibly senseless war (I’m not a fan of any nonwhite immigration, let along making excuses for the illegal alien presence)). I don’t think CW2 will last that long due to urban food shortages, and the ease of the rural Right in imposing such blockades.

    Of course, all depends on how law enforcement and esp the military shake out. My suspicion is that it will mostly be along racial lines, though whether it will be all nonwhites against whites, or merely blacks against whites (or blacks and some SJW white cops/Feds/soldiers against apolitical whites and rightist whites), with nonwhite {and non-black} police and service members simply hunkering down, I don’t know. However, it is unclear to me whether law enforcement or the military will in fact take sides. They might well hang together in loyalty to the Deep State and the task of crushing any armed insurrection from whatever the source.

    I think all whites should be “stocking up” – on weapons, ammo, long shelf-life food, bottled water, relevant medicines and first aid, etc. Be prepared to go “off-grid” even if you’re living in Manhattan. Ultimately, though, white nationalists need to exit “blue” cities and entire states and gather into a limited number of defensible states, ones already with white and conservative majorities, and start their own deep networking and communal defense organizing, in preparation for eventual war (even though, ironically, such communities will see very little unrest once actual civil war begins), and, more importantly, racial secession when the time is ripe.

    Hampton says correctly that CW2 will not be a regional effort like CW1. Umm, yeah, we kind of all understand that? Of course, this might one day prove not to be accurate, depending on the level and intensity of continuing racial sortition over the next few decades. And he says that whites still are too economically well off to start a civil war. I’m not so sure about that, but I do believe that whites will NOT be the ones to start a civil war because a) we are the good guys (sometimes too good for our own long term survival …), and b) we are the patriots, and even though increasing numbers of whites are becoming more loyal to our race than to Amerikwa, I think it remains undeniable that most patriots are white, and most whites are still patriots.

    While Hampton is correct about these matters, they are also likely to be increasingly irrelevant. Civil wars can take forms other than well-defined regional conflicts. Perhaps this is a semantic issue. What is a “civil war”? To me, it’s any widespread and large scale armed conflict within a single nation’s historically or internationally recognized borders. Why is it thought that this must involve regions set against each other? Was Lebanon’s conflict in the 70s (continuing ever since, to some extent) a “civil war”? I think so, but it was less regional than ethnoreligious. America’s CW2 will almost certainly NOT be regional (at least not until there is much greater racio-ideological sortition, such as I’ve been recommending in these comments at CC), but it will be racio-ideological. If prowhites are battling constantly against nonwhites and antiwhites, at what point can this be raised from “sporadic hooliganism” to “civil war”? I’d say we’re getting closer, even if we still have a long way to go.

    Moreover, why does Hampton assume that white comfort, that is, whites themselves, will determine the possibility of civil war? Doesn’t that give us credit for more power than we in fact possess? Whether whites do not want a civil war may not finally be up to them to decide. Indeed, it likely won’t be, as civil war will almost certainly be something thrust upon whites by our enemies, rather than the RAHOWA a tiny number of racially concerned whites have long wished to ignite. Whites might not be interested in civil war, but civil war might become very interested in them!

  20. Everyman
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    According to Hampton, “The Bolsheviks were outsiders who won, yet the country descended into mass slaughter and famine.” “Yet” should be “and” in this sentence. He continues, “It’s not particularly appealing for Americans to starve to death so they can get a new government that will still starve them to death.”

    That is correct, but there will be no “new” government. Those outsider Jews now control the United States and are using the same Bolshevik divide-and-conquer strategy to maintain and consolidate their power and destroy the organic nation, once and for all.

    Jews are narcissistic materialists, and communism is their preferred variety of this ideology as it centralizes power to the state, which they use as a force multiplier for Jewish Supremacy. We need to focus on the root problem: ruling class Jewish Supremacists and their sell-out collaborators.

    The Bolshevik Revolution was not a civil war, nor is what is happening now a pending civil war, it is an attempted communist coup by an outsider, globalist, Jewish Supremacist fifth column that feels its power threatened.

    Let us see this as an opportunity. There is narcissistic materialism and there is nature, and nature is on our side and always wins.

  21. Consigliere
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Most would consider that the country has been engaged in a cold civill war since at least Trump’s election, and even before his election.

    Check Angelo Codevilla’s articles from the last few years for a different perspective.

  22. BillMiller
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    The American War Between the States was not a civil war. It was a war for Southern secession that failed.
    I would argue that America in 2020 currently is in a civil war.

  23. pecosbill
    Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    After a month or so in office Trump sent ICE to round up illegals hiding out in Oakland CA. The mayor of that city warned the aliens of the impending raid and thus they were able to abscond. The mayor’s actions were a clear violation of the Immigration and Naturalization Act which makes it unlawful to aid and abet illegal aliens. When Trump refused to arrest and charge her, I knew his administration was essentially over on that front. After that incident, other cities went sanctuary with no consequences. Nevertheless I expect blue crazy states and cities to collapse under the weight of supporting this new underclass. California is now 50 billion short on a budget of some 200 billion much of this expense is in support of the ‘new’ citizens. Their choice is to raise taxes, float bonds, or cut expenses and the latter will not happen. But California voted for this mess so let them drown. What they and places like Seattle, Portland and many others are depending on is a Biden administration that will bail them out and this is likely to happen.

    Trump is essentially powerless. When he came into office he had the house and senate with him but the deep state rebelled and refused to act on his immigration initiatives. Once again proving the RepubliCONs are a totally useless bunch. Yet, with them in power they at least provide some sort of roadblock on the authoritarians. It is amazing how the RelpubliCONs turned on their own base supporters, southern whites who provided the bulk of their political successes since Nixon. These dumbasses have picked up the chant of ‘the democrats are the party of racism’, and we, big con inc, are the real savior of the black man. In so doing they align themselves with the Dimms and attack their own base.

    The current round of riots present whites aligning with their racial enemies. Strange how unaware they are. They are too a bunch of cowards by making a big show of beating up store windows, attacking cops who have orders to stand down, and face no consequences. If they were really courageous they’d attack ghetto blacks in mass who are responsible for most interracial white on black murders and rapes. They’d run illegal Mexicans out of town. Cowards all of them. It’s like the Dimms when faced with anarchy from the left they react by attacking Confederate historical figures. Confederates soldiers haven’t killed a Yankee since 1865.

    Concerning the US military, it is now some 43 percent minority and likely looked upon by these minorities as just another ‘gibs’ program. As mentioned, one trigger for a rebellion by so-called normies would be a massive military defeat. I’m thinking the sinking of one or two behemoth floating targets, AKA, aircraft carriers.

    Trump should fire wholesale all the top military brass especially Milly, the Marine Corps Commandant and the SECDEF as all of them are in insubordination and besides they are incapable of leadership which is nothing unusual for American general officers.

  24. Ray Caruso
    Posted July 24, 2020 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    No Real Regional Differences

    The Civil War pitted two sections of the country that were clearly divided on the map. Where would that happen in our country today?

    I find it strange that some authors think that clearly defined regional boundaries are a prerequisite for civil war. The first U.S. Civil War was actually atypical in that way. Most civil wars are not fought by different regions of a country but by factions with opposed ideologies or religions which at most loosely associated with particular regions. Examples are the Roman civil war (Caesar vs. Optimates), the French wars of religion (Catholics vs. Protestants), the Thirty Years’ War (essentially the German equivalent), the English Civil War (essentially the limey equivalent), the Russian Civil War (Bolsheviks vs. anti-commies), the Spanish Civil War (fascists vs. liberals), the Chinese Civil War (commies vs. kleptocrats), the Greek Civil War (monarchists vs. communists), the Yugoslavian wars (essentially a three-way fight featuring Eastern Orthodox vs. Catholics vs. Moslems). Moreover, the prospective racial war in the U.S. might be argued not to be a civil war at all since, for all the politically correct blather, the opposing factions largely do not—and certainly would not in the actual event—consider themselves to be part of one people. The conflict would be more akin to a war of independence, in which one side fights to be free from subjugation to and even association with the other side.

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