JM: One of the things that really infuriates me is people willing to toss out tradition, history, heritage, as if they don’t matter. “Why do you care that you’re white? Why do you care about your culture, history, country?” Any of those questions. It seems very common sense to me that this is my group, my culture, my family. I don’t know why I should ever have to defend that. And in so many conversations I do. I don’t understand how it even becomes controversial to begin with.
Greg Johnson: Right. You can get to a of people by following this kind of argument: “You have a son or daughter. Little Johnny, for instance. Little Johnny is yours; he looks like you; you love him, etc. But he’s not the brightest kid on the block. And you’re putting aside money for his college education. But little Johnny might not be as smart as little Akbar down the street. So why are you paying for Johnny’s education rather than Akbar’s education?” And people will get really upset if you try to pull that on them. They feel like they’re being bullied. But in terms of the norms they’ve accepted it’s hard for them to answer it. This is why we’re losing everything, because we don’t have good answers to arguments like that.
But the proper answer is, “Because he’s mine. He’s my son. And if I don’t take care of my son, nobody else is going to take care of him. You want me to take care of Akbar down the street, but his parents aren’t going to take care of little Johnny.” So we need to take care of our own, and love our own. And it’s natural, normal, and right to love our own.
You can apply that more broadly than to just your immediate family. It’s natural, normal, and right to have preferences for people who are like you. And there’s a whole body of psychological theory that is very well grounded empirically and very powerful in its predictive ability. This is Genetic Similarity Theory.
It turns out that animals, even incredibly primitive animals, animals that don’t even have brains, very limited creatures still have a little unit built into them that allows them to sort between kin and non-kin, and they prefer kin. Ants: they’re not big-brained creatures, but they still prefer kin to non-kin, and this is essential to life.
JM: Yes. And I would think that the party often most against this, being liberal, atheistic, secular, therefore believing in evolution and things like that, they should understand this is buried fairly deep in our brain. This isn’t the prefrontal cortex at work here. And you see the outcomes all the time. And the hypocrisy of the people who use their prefrontal cortex to argue against it, but in practice live as naturally as anybody else, according to their group preference. And this is not going away anytime soon. I think some people have a sort of accelerationist way of dealing with that, thinking “Well, let’s just mix together. Soon everybody will be beige.”
GJ: Well, when they say that, I just say: “So you recognize that diversity doesn’t work. And you want to commit genocide on all the distinct peoples of the world so you can make diversity work.” I’ve got a better idea. Instead of committing genocide, why don’t we just put the brakes on all the mixing and start unmixing things? Wouldn’t that be nice? When you get a liberal saying, “We’ve got to have one beige race,” they’ve given the game away. It is great to get liberals on record: You liberals now recognize that diversity is a curse, and you are willing to engage in genocide in order to create a workable monoracial, monocultural society.
JM: And oftentimes, talking out of both sides of their mouths, they’ll get into some kind of cultural appropriation. So they’re not in favor of the mixing on one hand. But when it comes to race they’ll say, “No, we have to get through this and make everyone just one human race.”
GJ: Right, if you observe their behavior, or get them a little drunk, you’ll see they are totally uncomfortable with nonwhites unless nonwhites are outliers totally assimilated to upper-middle-class white norms. They are very uncomfortable around people who aren’t like them. So really, their model is cultural genocide for everybody else.
JM: I’ve seen this plenty of times in my own life. Get them a little drunk, and it really starts to shine through. “That’s extremism, collectivism, tribalism!” all the bad words commonly thrown against it. The people who argue against it also act that way and notice the same thing. It’s not a matter of trying to force this into anybody. It’s just about bringing it out, letting them express natural feelings.
GJ: Yes, and this is one of the reasons I’m fundamentally optimistic about our cause, because I believe that nature is on our side. There are never going to be any workable long-term good consequences of doubling down on multiculturalism. They’re not going to get their coffee-colored humanity. There will be outliers who will miscegenate, but the bulk of people will not. The most ethnocentric people will reproduce their kind, and the least ethnocentric people will disappear, and therefore whites are going to become more ethnocentric on average, because miscegenation is going to pick off the people who aren’t ethnocentric. Whites are going to become more pro-natal on average, because birth control, miscegenation, and feminism are going to take anti-natal people out of the gene pool. So you’re going to find a tendency towards greater ethnocentrism and pro-natal attitudes on the part of white people. Now, I do believe white genocide is possible, but they’ll just have to kill us. We’re not going to willingly mix ourselves into oblivion, or just cease to reproduce.
So what’s going to happen is increased ethnocentrism and racial polarization. Eventually, if we don’t manage to persuade these people to do the rational thing, and halt these horrible policies, they will be halted by systemic collapse; they’ll be reversed by bloody wars and conquests.
We want to avoid that by enlightening people, by making them realize this is not going to end well, and then instituting sane, peaceful, and humanitarian solutions, just to reverse the trends. We’ve had fifty years of demographic decline for whites in North America. If we reversed all those trends, if we put things on the right path for fifty years, we would be fine.
I never tire of saying we would reap a lot of the psychological benefits well before those fifty years are up. Because we would feel as a group that we’ve got a future again. I think one of the reasons there’s so much nihilism, helplessness, drug addiction, decadence, and decline among white people is because deep down white people don’t believe that we have a future. We need to give our race a future again. And if we resolve today that we are going to have a future, we are going to start feeling the benefits of that today. Even if it takes us fifty years to have an ethnostate, we will start reaping the benefits of it today, and if we reap the benefits of it today, that will hasten the day the ethnostate actually arrives.
JM: The resolve will lift peoples’ spirits, give them a purpose, give them something to work toward. Taking that gift and cherishing it. Preparing it to pass on to the future generations. So it’s very enlightening.
GJ: Even though selfishness is constantly preached in our societies, people are happier when they feel like they are serving a greater good. Unfortunately the greater good the Left is preaching is just nihilism and self-annihilation for white people. The greater good that we are advocating is preserving our people and all the other peoples of the world. And carrying our heritage on, and raising it to new heights. That’s what we stand for. That’s a truly inspiring vision, and that’s something that can make peoples’ lives a lot more meaningful than playing video games, watching porn, watching sports, and all the other forms of nihilistic self-indulgence society has to offer, basically as a way to while away our time to extinction.
JM: Yes, I agree, and like you said it is getting worse, the opiate epidemic and things like that. They are out of hand, and have been for quite some time. It is purposelessness, and I’ve been in a debate on social media recently about lacking purpose and what that means. It’s interesting. Human beings seem to have a drive for that, and we don’t seem to have one right now. I shouldn’t say “we,” because I feel like I do, and a lot of others do. But I think as a group we don’t. And we are seeing that. And if that idea were to come, we would start seeing the effects of it right away.
People will bring up problems within specific groups like the Alt Right. And I think what you and I have been talking about here is bigger than that, more than that one singular movement, it’s about a group of ideals, values, a culture. Some people agree with a lot of ideas or believe in the ideals that we are talking about, but they don’t have a problem with certain groups, but I think as long as you agree and believe in that, hopefully you’ll be making the right decisions.
GJ: Right. We need to change peoples’ consciousness, and the right political leaders will come along. Once there is a sufficient change of consciousness, a lot of people with leadership skills, money, and organizational skills will pop up and carry that forward in the political realm. Therefore you don’t have to commit yourself to any of the things that are in the offing today.
I agree that there’s a great deal of dissatisfaction. Since Charlottesville a lot of people have gone silent in social media. I feel that many of our people are hanging back and watching because they don’t like what they’re seeing. And after the Shelbyville event this past weekend there has been an explosion of bickering and infighting about this. People have had enough of these marches and events like that. They feel like it’s not the right way forward.
We need a vehicle to carry this consciousness forward in the political realm, but we haven’t figured that out yet. But I’m not worried, because the people who have gone silent and who are biding their time aren’t going to change into multiculturalists. This is an irreversible change. No one goes back from this. No one who sincerely sees what we see and believes what we believe ever goes back from it.
There are apostates. I’ve written an essay called “The Psychology of Apostasy.” But these are people who believe this stuff, or thought they believed it, said they believed it out of social reasons, not because of actual convictions that these are truths.
But those who see the truth of this aren’t going to leave for some other thing. They’re just going to wait for a better vehicle to come along. We’ve got time. We’ve got decades to turn this around. I truly believe that. The longer it takes, the harder it’s going to be. But we do have decades to turn this around. So I don’t think we need to hop onto any kind of premature political populist bandwagon. A lot of us aren’t. A lot of us are simply biding our time and waiting and watching.
But as long as we continue to articulate the changes that people are experiencing because of the baked-in problems of multiculturalism, they’re going to come to us. They’re going to mill around. They’ll become a huge crowd. They’ll eventually become a significant enough minority that they can tip the whole balance of society in our direction. Then we’re going to see rapid political change. I think it will be so rapid, so sudden, and so total that we will all be shocked. It will be as shocking as when communism fell in 1989. And I believe it’s going to happen in my lifetime.
JM: Once you actually understand the idea, I don’t think there’s any going back. And it’s a big reason I’ve been a huge fan of Counter-Currents. I don’t think you’re trying to tout yourselves as something you’re not. You’re putting out these ideas, giving people a place to go, and I think it really is a place people should check out as a way to understand things better, like where some of this velocity comes from, what are some historical events and tactics that we can look at and learn from. And for those who are biding their time it’s a perfect place, and even for those who want to make their voices heard, it’s a place they can become educated. I think you’ve done a great job of putting that together.
GJ: Well, thank you very much; that’s music to my ears! We’ve been going on for about ninety minutes now, so I think we should wrap up. Are there any last thoughts before we go?
JM: No, that was great, thank you very much.
GJ: Well, let’s do this again. Write down some more questions for normies and you can bounce them off me. Honestly, we should be doing more of this, because we’ve got to get our talking points down. And this is a good kind of workshop. It’s good for me, too. So let’s make plans to do it again.
JM: Absolutely. Will do!
Remembering William Butler Yeats:
June 13, 1865–January 28, 1939
Do Black Lives Matter?
A Response to Nathan Cofnas
Is It Okay to Be White?: An Interview with Rémi Tremblay
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 349 Roundtable
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 348 Jason Kessler
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 347 Lipton Matthews
Remembering Oswald Spengler (May 29, 1880–May 8, 1936)