Counter-Currents
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Every so often a woman writes something online that makes me want to punch her until my fist comes out the other side of her head, but I can’t do that, because they’d send me back to prison.
This time around, what got my Irish up is an article with the verb-free headline “The Pandemic of Lonely Men Not Women’s Problem,” which was written by a certain Melanie Allen, whose looks are, thankfully, not my problem.
Here are some choice nuggets of supreme self-unawareness from Ms. Allen, who of course has to include in her bio that she loves her cats:
Journalists nationwide are covering the hottest new pandemic that gets them clicks: the pandemic of lonely men. . . . Major publications like Psychology Today, and BBC’s Science Focus have covered the problem, saying COVID destroyed men’s social lives in particular, and the endemic of loneliness in men causes them undo [sic] hardship and suffering. . . . Men fail to understand that they aren’t competing with other men. They are competing with the happiness and fulfillment a woman can provide herself. And they’re failing spectacularly. . . . With advances in women’s rights, women gained the ability to take care of themselves. . . . Men think they can continue to be lazy, incompetent users while attracting a desirable partner. They believe women should flock to them solely based on the fact that they’re a man. Men must step up and contribute if they want to attract a mate. . . . They must enhance a woman’s life rather than make it more difficult.
The idea that men need to “step up” to alleviate their gnawing romantic loneliness was echoed in a 2022 Psychology Today article by Dr. Greg Matos called “What’s Behind the Rise of Lonely, Single Men”:
Men need to address their deficits to meet healthier relationship expectations. . . . Men have a key role in this transformation but only if they go all-in. It’s going to take that kind of commitment to themselves, to their mental health, and to the kind of love they want to generate in the world. Will we step up?
It makes you want to step on the face of anyone who tells you to step up.
Repeat after me: Whenever men have a problem, it’s men’s fault. And whenever women have a problem, it’s also men’s fault. It’s mystifying how men just can’t catch a break in this patriarchy.
Then again, there’s a very weird and pervasive online subculture that is ostensibly designed to address and alleviate this double standard but only winds up cementing male loneliness by blaming all of men’s problems on women. As a result, men who immerse themselves in this subculture end up even more bitter and lonely, fairly ensuring that their problems will never be solved. Some of them wind up as mass shooters.
I am referring, but of course, to the established “incel community.” I’ve been mocking them for some time now. Many readers seem to understand why I mock this community, but others don’t, so I need to hash out my terms here and distinguish between a regular ol’ “incel” and a self-identified member of the “incel community.”
The word “incel” is a portmanteau of “involuntary celibate.” In other words, it’s someone who wants to get laid but can’t. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise doesn’t understand that the “wants-to-get-laid-but-can’t” part is baked into the word.
In my late teens and early twenties, I was an incel who endured bleak phases of crippling loneliness. I desperately wanted a girlfriend, or even a woman to wink at me every once in a while, but I always came up empty. Never once, though, did it occur to me that I should blame women for this problem.
I have abundant sympathy for men who desire a mate, or even a girlfriend, but can’t find one. My criticisms of the “incel community” are strictly confined to the established online network of self-identified incels who are mired in an acutely miserable online support group that only reinforces their problems.
A poster on Kiwi Farms summarized the crucial difference between incels and the “incel community” a couple years ago:
Incels™ (with a capital I and a trademark symbol) are a cult. I mean that in a 100% literal sense. They have their own saints, their own jargon, their own purity tests, they disown/punish apostates (just look at how they react to incels who eventually escape/have sex), and most importantly, they prey on lonely people. I feel like most people don’t understand this about cults. Cults don’t target stupid people, or evil people, they target LONELY PEOPLE. . . . I think a major issue that has perpetuated the incel problem has been the mixing of the term to mean both the cult of Incels (the killers and their followers) and guys who just can’t get laid. I would say the majority of incels fall into the later [sic] group, they’re just socially maladjusted men who are struggling with dating.
Because of my experiences when I was younger, I would never mock some poor sap who seeks female companionship but can’t find it. My beef with the “incel community” is that it seems custom-built, almost maliciously so, to ensure that incels remain incels until death.
The boilerplate response to my criticisms of this acutely pathetic online circle jerk is that I have no idea how awful women are these days and that I am horrifyingly unaware of how the dating scene has changed dramatically since the 1920s, or whenever it was that my boomer ass was out fishing for chicks.
You can buy Jim Goad’s Shit Magnet here.
Sure. I have no idea how awful women are these days. I definitely didn’t write an entire book about how the most violent and malicious woman I’ve ever met sent me to prison after her endless threats and assaults finally led me to give her a taste of her own medicine with extreme prejudice.
And until about four years ago when I finally found a good woman, I certainly wasn’t living alone and cruising those crushingly depressing dating apps, dipping my wick in an exhausting string of overmedicated, unemployed, self-absorbed, endlessly whiny and entitled cooches who seemed to exist merely to create problems and stir up chaos just for the fun of it. And the scariest thing of all was that no matter how zonked-out and aimless their lives were, none of them seemed the least bit bothered by their plight. Fact is, women have automatic governmental and societal support whenever they break a fingernail or stub their toe, whereas men who experience any kind of misfortune or loneliness are laughed at and told to “step up.”
Just yesterday, The Hill published an article titled “Most young men are single. Most young women are not.”:
Young men commit suicide at four times the rate of young women. . . . As of 2022, Pew Research Center found, 30 percent of U.S. adults are neither married, living with a partner nor engaged in a committed relationship. Nearly half of all young adults are single: 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men.
That “whopping” disparity can be explained by the rise of lesbian relationships and the statistical fact that young women, money-grubbing bleeding gashes that they are, aren’t above dating older and wealthier men, whereas young men, for obvious biological reasons, aren’t attracted to older women whose eggs have already fossilized.
I’ve been writing since the early 1990s about how appalling the gender double standards have been and how men have been scapegoated for everything wrong that happens between men and women, no matter how screamingly guilty the woman is in any given situation.
But even I didn’t think things would get this bad.
We have a whole generation of young men who are desperately lonely but don’t get a drop of sympathy because they’re living in a culture that blames men for everything.
What I’m trying to say is that I care. I care so much that I harbor a seething disdain for the carnival-barking clowns who exploit male loneliness by offering schemes and alibis which cause such soul-smashing loneliness to metastasize with every tick of the clock. Just like feminism creates lonely cat ladies, the established “incel community” creates miserable men. It’s just as bad for men as feminism has been for women. No, it’s even worse, because whereas female self-pity seems to be encoded in their DNA, men should know better than to fall into that trap.
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120 comments
We can’t forget how enormous of an impact affirmative action has had on women’s socioeconomic status. Our whole university system was turned upside down and stuffed with filler degrees to attract more women, mens taxes were used to create about 11x as many scholarships for women, and public and private companies are forced to hire 50% women or die trying. Women use twice the welfare consumption cost as men as well, serve shorter sentences for the same crimes, etc. So they really don’t need men for anything, unless the man is exceptional in some way. Incel and MGTOW communities are similar to men’s clubs and locker rooms throughout history, but the anonymity allows them to be honest, instead of bragging about how much women love them. I always found solace in these comment sections and never felt lonely because of it. Most women are fat, bitchy, and on birth control anyway, so these guys aren’t virgins or incels as much as voluntarily avoiding the misery. I think suicide is more common among 30-45 year olds if I’m not mistaken, and I hear a lot about them being divorce influenced suicides, though I don’t know the data for sure.
These are important points. I’ve never had a problem with romance – I’m on my much happier and better-adjusted second marriage and I can’t recall being single for longer than six months since early high school – but I am not the norm for my generational cohort and shudder at the thought of 90% of women out there today, including white women. Postmodernity has effectively eliminated men, and particularly white men, as anything other than tax cattle.
What are these “filler degrees” created to attract women? I’m looking at my own alma mater’s most popular undergraduate degrees, and the rankings are about what they were decades ago when it was only 20% coed. You could probably guess what those majors are:
Economics, History, Political Science, (Molecular and General) Biology, Computer Science, Psychology, “Global Affairs” (new interdisciplinary major, I guess), English, Statistics/Data Science/Mathematics, Engineering.
I’m aware that many state schools have a lot of vo-tech programs such as “fashion merchandising” or “physical therapy,” but that’s not a recent innovation, or something run up to attract the ladies.
Per Fred Reed off the top of my head, something like only 15% of high schoolers attended college in 1960. I don’t know what percentage of those were women. But prior knowledge of intelligence distributions would indicate it’s considerably less than 50%, meaning perhaps 10% of women were college bound.
Today, a quick Google search shows 71% of women — a vastly darker cohort hailing from an academically hobbled system — attend.
Most of those degrees are filler. QED.
The incels vs Incels™ clarification has been sorely needed for years. Even the best of us go through dry spells and have bad relationships.
I was in the orbit of the nascent “incel community” back in 2012 or so, before the term had even been coined (to the best of my knowledge). The community posted on 4chan, on the board named /r9k/. I found it funny and a good place for guys to vent their frustrations, but even then there was this odd sense of hopelessness some of the people there tried to spread to everyone else who was just there to swap stories and vent. Indeed, the term “black pill” would be coined, or at least popularized, by a rather unattractive man known as “Eggy” (for his egg shaped head) who was one of their early saints.
Eventually I moved on because I got a full time job and I was getting my shit together. Later, when “incels” were astroturfed into the mainstream media as the next moral panic, I read up on things and saw that, despite the media exaggerating a lot and putting their typical political spin on it, the scene had mutated into a proper cult of despair. Glad I left.
The term “incel” existed well before 2012. It came from the Pick Up Artist “community,” as did the term AFC (average frustrated chump). They also used the term “insol” or involuntary solitude for women who were unable to find (or keep) a relationship. To no one’s surprise, the mass media never picked up this term and ran with it.
As best as I can discern, the “incel community” sprang up as a reaction to the PUA community, not as a response to any societal animus toward men. In other words, like feminism, the incel “movement” was the result of an intra-gender conflict, not inter-gender conflict. The gist of their argument was that PUA techniques, etc., were all BS. Rather, they argued that well-known PUAs were just tall and handsome, and that they were all grifters. As part of this, they willingly adopted the incel label and attempted to subvert it by making it a positive thing, i.e, they were the one who had actually taken the red pill and realized that women were cruel and heartless, PUAs were scammers getting by on their looks, the deck was stacked against them, etc.
What I always found very strange about Incels, i.e., those who willing accepted the term, was how feminized they seemed to be. I remember scanning Elliot Rodgers manifesto. He viewed himself as an attractive man, and appeared offended that women did not approach him. His bitterness toward women seemed odd as I can’t recall him indicating that he had even approached a woman, much less actually been rejected by one. Sorry, but if you’re the one with the X chromosome, you’re gonna have to be the dude in the relationship.
Actually, it was a lonely woman who coined the term “incel” back in the 1990s.
“Actually, it was a lonely woman who coined the term “incel” back in the 1990s.”
100% confirmed by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#History
That makes the derisive usage by PUAs and their acolytes rather ironic as it appears they were the first ones to subvert the meaning of the term.
I read Eliot Rodgers manifesto online when he went on his shooting spree. It was disturbing. He obviously had a problem forming relationships with people, not just with women, but with forming male friendships as well. It appeared he also had problems distinguishing reality from fantasy. He had this view that women, especially the most attractive, were supposed to instantly give themselves up sexually to him.
That’s what happens in the movies.
That’s right.
I refuse to believe that women have changed all that much over the years. Your criticism that they are mostly seeking social status and money is not entirely true. I’ve met plenty of attractive, gainfully employed and all around decent women that I’m convinced go to bed at night crying in their pillows because they can’t find a man.
Good looks are not paramount to women. Unless the man in question smells like B.O. Plenty and has a perpetual case of pyorrhea most women will give him a chance.
Just be funny. Women love to laugh. Not all will like your sense of humor so don’t be afraid of failure. Most of us will fail far more than we succeed. When you do succeed don’t self destruct and scare her away. Be confident. Confidence exudes masculinity. It’s not that hard guys. If Haystacks Calhoun can find himself a good woman and have kids so can you.
Feminism didn’t change women, it unmasked them.
I refuse to believe that women have changed all that much over the years. Your criticism that they are mostly seeking social status and money is not entirely true. I’ve met plenty of attractive, gainfully employed and all around decent women that I’m convinced go to bed at night crying in their pillows because they can’t find a man.
What is your source for believing that woman haven’t changed that much over the years? Other than the brief bit of anecdotal evidence you provided, that is. Sadly, there are no studies performed on the degree of money-grubbing and backstabbing tendencies possessed by modern women as compared to women 50 years ago, as such a study in and of itself would bring out the vaginal gestapo and the conductors of the study would never be seen or heard from again. The truth is, cultural shifts over the past few decades have definitely changed the way women behave and view men. Is it as bad as the mansophere guys say it is? No. But it’s not exactly picking up women on the strip American Graffii-style either. Luckily, it’s not something I’ll have to deal with unless my wife keeps making the goddamn eggs too runny.
It’s not sad that there are no studies on to what degree of money grubbing goes on today as opposed to yesteryear. How would such a study even be conducted?? I’m sure it’s always been female nature to seek a mate that can best provide for her and her children. Thinking that that is the only criteria is absurd. Are modern men going to use the pathetic excuse that “the only reason she didn’t choose me is because I don’t make enough coin”? That sounds eerily similar to “the only reason I didn’t get hired is because I’m black “. I have no hard evidence because there isn’t any. I can only draw conclusions from personal experience. I’ve known women that went the rich guy route and hated them. Arrogant conceited assholes I was told. We’ve all known attractive high earning women that date or marry total losers. The kind that leave everyone scratching their heads wondering “what the hell does she see in him?”
Money isn’t everything. You can still find a good one based solely on charisma. You can even find one that can cook.
Money isn’t everything. You can still find a good one based solely on charisma. You can even find one that can cook.
So the reason that most young men are single…is because they aren’t funny and confident?
You don’t think the govt picking up the protector and provider role and the attention women get on social media has anything to do with it?
“You don’t think the govt picking up the protector and provider role and the attention women get on social media has anything to do with it?”
The Government. (TM) A faceless institution – even if it does perhaps offer a modicum of protection against the worst manifestations of feral street crimes and provision for the most basic of needs. Ours is not an ant hill society and we are not machines (at least not currently). Women still need men and vice versa no matter how some people – The Professional Incels (TM), feminists, etc would like to paint it. Do you think that anybody, woman or man would have feelings of affection for some governmental institution? As for The Professional Incels (TM), not only are just about all women are put off by them and their constant complaining – other men generally don’t like them either for more or less exactly the same reasons.
Yes. They’re married to Uncle Samuels and his goon squad. And they have infinite choice, at least of who they get for the night.
But unhitch Chad from Andrea Dworkin from Uncle Samuels, and you’ll have one wrecked horse and carriage to disparage.
Earning a high income as a woman narrows the field of potential male mates. She’d likely prefer someone who earns even more than she does – a rare beast . But then a man who has the qualities that enable him to earn nearly as much as she does might well prefer someone who is going to depend on him just a little bit and won’t threaten his bread-winner status.
Marriageable women used to have a separate status hierarchy based on their personal and social accomplishments and to an extent their husband’s wealth and status. My perception is that this is now greatly diminished as so much of a woman’s life is now lived outside home and local community.
Who cares if a woman is ‘gainfully employed’? If I just need help with bills, I could room up with a buddy. We could rail sluts, lift weights, high five, and trade guitar solos, all without the baggage of a relationship. Heck, we could even start a business and be millionaires. Some people need help with kids that don’t require loyally kissing a pig and claiming to be lucky or some skank to give another half of everything you worked for because she got bored and wanted to go psycho. The whole ‘have a sense of humor’ blah blah BS totally misses the point. Being in good shape and pulling over 100k a year is like graduating college and realizing the job market still sucks. And if it wasn’t about having and raising kids, why the hell would anybody ever work at all?
I too had my stint as a young lonely male. I’m curious as to how many of these so-called incels have even been on a date. What got me out of my stupor was running into a lady friend back in college. It was almost lunch time, and we were having a nice conversation for almost a half hour on the sidewalk. Feeling hungry and wanting to continue our conversation I asked her if she wanted to get some pizza. As the words came out of my mouth it dawned on me that this was the first time I had actually asked a girl out on a date. For the price of two pieces of pizza and a medium coke, about $7.00 back in the late aughts, I found myself back at her place less than 24 hours later eating her pizza if you catch my drift.
This was absolutely horrible advice. It’s on par with, “My mom told me to just be myself.”
An important topic as part of the Great Replacement is the low birth rate of white folks filled in by unchecked immigration. Decades ago there were those on the right who foresaw the rise of feminism taking a toll on the American family. Hold it a sec, miss, hear me out. There are plenty of talented women who can be doctors, physicists and famous writers. But once upon a time families were made up of male breadwinners. Nowadays women have not been cool with being the breadwinners to make a family unit work. There are indeed some families where the feminist woman is the breadwinner and I’ve got nothing but respect that she practices what she preaches.
However most women are still looking for a guy who makes more dough than her, including the female doctors and engineers! Even reliably leftist This American Life mocked this with a story of a lonely female physics professor wanting a partner who was smarter than her. They calculated her odds in Boston… zero.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/374/transcript
As claimed in “The Pandemic of Lonely Men Not Women’s Problem”:
[Men] are competing with the happiness and fulfillment a woman can provide herself.
Yeah, well some of that is on men’s dime. There’s an industry of low-paid work to make women feel fulfilled (nonprofits, exploitative college ‘lecturer’ positions, important blogger, etc) and then they either live off their man or live poorly. Divorce law makes it easy to collect generous child support, feel fulfilled with the love of a child, and not have to deal with shared decision making anymore when she might crown herself queen. But I’ve seen karma come for these chicks too. With many jobs under pressure to have more female employees, many women rushed in to secure a spot. Years later came a new hiring dictum, “We have enough of you white ladies… we need black and brown womyn.” The leftists should note that many immigrant groups outbreeding whites to nonexistence have a somewhat old school family structure.
OK. Below is pasted the results of literally a five-minute search about murderous women. They have killed strangers, partners, their families, the babies of others. An hour’s search would yield dozens, if not hundreds, of these types of cases. And these cases are just from the last few months alone.
All murderous women. And what will we no doubt hear caused them to kill? Mental illness. Post-partum depression. Jealousy. Never the simple single fact they’re sick, evil, twisted cunts. Some man will no doubt have driven many of them to it – except when they’re driving over him, like one woman did here to a man.
Nothing a woman does is EVER her fault. It’s all down to ‘the patriarchy’ and ‘internalised misogyny’ or ‘passion’ or some such nonsense. Talk about infantalised shit! Women know they can get away with a lot a man never would, and use it to their eternal advantage.
Let’s say a woman murders her supposedly ‘abusive’ partner. What’s the first thing we’re all trained to think: what did he do to deserve it? He must gave beaten and raped her to deserve such a miserable violent death. And he’s scum if he kills her too, cos women never abuse men in any way. Ever.
Talk about victim blaming! All a woman has to do is SAY her partner was an abusive monster and she gets away with it a lot of the time. Truth means nothing whatsoever. The man made her do it, just like the Devil used to make good people do bad things.
Men, especially white men, are the modern Devil. Chop us up like a Friday the 23th film and nobody cares less. We’re expendable, born with the original sin of having a cock between our legs in an ever-more-feminine society.
Women are better than men? Whoever said that shit is either a halwit manhating middle class media feminist, or a guy too young to have been fucked over by a stupid, evil cunt yet. And let’s hope he never is. Cos he doesn’t deserve her sniffy manhating princess shit, despite being, well, you know, just a YUCK! man and all.
No woman’s worth his rage. And she’ll win in the end if the two you go to court. Word to the wise: look before you leap. Might save you getting killed, then spat and shat on in the media by laughing manhating, grave-dancing, middle class harridans someday. Just like these poor people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64720003.amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-64402636
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/mom-murdered-children-husband-left-29069260
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/06/woman-arrested-after-three-children-stabbed-in-huddersfield
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-children-dead-infant-hospitalized-massachusetts-mothers-suicide-at-rcna67456
https://www.boston.com/news/the-boston-globe/2023/01/26/how-could-a-mother-allegedly-kill-her-children-duxbury-lindsay-clancy/
https://www.gazetteseries.co.uk/news/23048801.bristol-woman-stabbed-boyfriend-death-making-50k-onlyfans/
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2022-12-16/drunk-mother-who-ran-over-and-killed-boyfriend-thought-shed-hit-traffic-cone
The plain fact of the matter is that women don’t need men anymore. The protector and provider role was seized by the government and we’re living in its aftermath. Women go to college and graduate at higher rates than men, which is subsidized by government loans; they get scholarships for being women and when they graduate they are eligible for Affirmative Action (white women are the greatest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action). There are companies that are falling over themselves to hire women for professional entry-level jobs. Women don’t need men to support them financially anymore. They can work to support themselves, and the education and job placement is backed by the government.
In the old days, women had to worry about accidental pregnancies but thanks to birth control and abortion no birth is accidental. In some countries women get 32 weeks of maternity leave from the government and here in the US half of employers give women paid maternity leave. Where that is not available, women get food stamps, supplemental income, housing vouchers and they can petition the court system to order paternity tests and wage garnishments. Not to mention the number of college scholarships single moms receive.
An attractive woman can start an OnlyFans account and make millions of dollars. Even if she doesn’t make that much, she can supplement the income from her 9-to-5 by uploading some nude pictures and videos to an app, which takes only a few minutes. (Does anyone else notice that only men are chastised for looking at porn, but women are never criticized for making porn?) Porn is a major “side hustle” for young women.
All of this tradcon BS about men lacking confidence, not having goals, stuck in their basement playing video games etc is said to keep them believing in a lie. That assumes that women want providers. That world is long gone.
Most accurate comment of this entire thread right here ^^^
Relations between men and women were far, far better when women needed men. Now they all want a celebrity guy and shun working men, fueled by their artificially elevated self esteem from social media likes and white knights.
The traditional ways are better. Men protect and provide, women birth content and devote themselves to their family. Anything else will fail because it works against nature.
Birth children *
Women have children !!!!! I think storks are on strike. Every time i peer over a stroller which is a rarity in an of itself its usually a small dog more than a human baby, the entire planet’s women over 85% of the population are not even maintaining 2.1. Women dont have children and they actually dont want children, i am starting to get a complex that even the cat lady thing is now a myth from all the women with dog strollers that i see, statistically half of them should be cats but they never are. Human babies in strollers, i dont even expect it anymore.
I concur. Read my reply to Weave. The Dutch woman with whom I shared this article more or less agrees with you, but I’ll let her speak for herself.
Here, the degree of Trad in the Con determines the level of BS.
For instance, if we indulge in ultra-traditional conservatism, spinning the clock back 10,000+ years, then the TradCon reproductive-success prescription becomes to acquire total power by whatever available means, reaching the point where controlling law is “Do as Thou Wilt.”
I am, however, unconvinced that most women would endorse that endpoint explicitly, however enthusiastically their actions imply it.
I’m an old married guy now, but the young guys I work with and my 50+ associates seem to have no problem finding women. One kid showed me how he swipes until he finds what he wants. A recently divorced 52 year old buddy has 50+ divorced moms sending him photos of their perfectly coifed genitals. It’s all in your head, there’s someone for everyone. But, and this is a big but, you may have to lower your standards a bit. In the end, they’re all nuts, but if it’s a companion you’re looking for, it’s not hard to find one.
Lower your standards? More like replace your mattress springs with 3/4 ton truck springs. And stop wearing your eye glasses or contacts.
Chubby girls need love, too. And a lot of them are good cooks. Most of them, not all, are going to put on a few pounds after a couple kids, anyway. Most of these young guys are chasing 8s or 9s when there’s a bevy of 5s and 6s just begging for love. And some guys ought to be happy with a 3 or 4.
Lol. I more or less believed your original post was sincere. At least I got a laugh out of your next, though. Good cooks. Most…chasing 9s.
‘…perfectly coifed genitals.’
I’m over 50 and I’m not sure what this means.
Older women are now shaving, or styling their public hair.
Most young men in the West do not go through a ritual or strong transformation taking them from childhood to manhood. This leaves many of them confused and struggling and feeling like they’re missing some vital answer.
We’re born with a natural compulsion to seek our mothers to solve all our problems. This instinct is vital to our survival as children.
However, when a man reaches adolescence that switch in his unconscious needs to be flipped so that he is free of his mother. If not he cannot form a strong sexual bond with another woman. He will always see her as a substitute for mother and, all due respect to Oedipus, no healthy man wants to have a sexual relationship with his mother. Women can sense a man who has not grown up and they are instinctively repelled by him.
Ridding oneself of the desire to seek the comfort and warmth of “mother” is not an easy thing to do. The desire is embedded deep within our psyches from birth. We want things the way we want them and when they’re not we get mad or frustrated or sad or afraid. These emotions all point back to our desire to have someone (or something) make it right for us. We seek mother.
If a man is expecting a woman to act in a certain way, to take care of him and mother him or he puts her on a pedestal, he’s going to be continuously disappointed in his attempts at sexual relationships. He will open himself up to exploitation by unscrupulous women leading to even more disappointment and despair.
In short, the problem with men in the West is that we have no real strong transformation from our mother-loving childhoods to a free-from-mother manhood. This leaves us spending most of our early adulthood seeking an answer to some unnamed question. By the time we have some semblance of an answer (if we ever do) our prime mating years have passed.
So, it sounds like these “Incels”, capital “I”, have become fanatically stuck in a mother-f-ing mind set.
The lack of any strong ritualized transformation for young men in the West may well be by design but that’s a story for another time.
What young men lack today is a space where they can feel confident and call their own. When a man has his own space, owning a property and making it his own, women are drawn there. The US giving away it’s manufacturing capabilities was a crushing blow to men and families
You have the cart before the horse. Owning a space will not help until a young man has freed himself from expecting things from the world like it’s his mother. He’ll attract the kind of woman who will use and exploit him for any material gain she might get. A man who doesn’t expect anything (good or bad) from the world would not experience a crushing blow from anything the oligarchs do. He would not rely on them so much in the first place.
That being said, I agree we need a territory where our white species can raise strong healthy white people free from the bonds of exploitation by the other human species and ethnicities.
This is all well and good, maybe as general advice to incels, but it’s not necessarily a cure for what I assume are some of their fears.
People forget that there are plenty of women married to successful men who are good providers, but they still cheat on their husbands out of boredom, their own desire for promiscuity or whatever else.
Everyone wants a clean, trad-approved and risk-free way out of these problems, but I’m not sure there is one actually, yes especially in our age.
“This is all well and good, maybe as general advice to incels, but it’s not necessarily a cure for what I assume are some of their fears.”
It’s really a cure for all their fears. The fear comes from expecting the world (and the world includes women) to behave in a certain way, then becoming despondent when it does not. I expect the powers that be want us all to be despondent. We’re easier to control that way.
When a child fails he becomes despondent and seeks his mother to solve the problem.
When a man fails he evaluates the situation and tries again. He accepts the world on the worlds terms, free from mother.
“…especially in our age.”
“Our age” is no different than any other age.
People haven’t changed much in all of recorded history.
When a man fails he evaluates the situation and tries again. He accepts the world on the worlds terms, free from mother.
The increasingly lopsided ratio of single men to single women was engineered by decades of welfare programs and feminist propaganda. There are fewer women in need of a husband to support themselves today because the state has filled that role. Being stripped of a man’s natural role as provider and protector of his family is an injustice and it didn’t happen because men got too attached to their moms.
Your solution is for men to comply with the changes, which is the attitude of a slave. You might as well tolerate the anti-white culture and everything else that gets thrown at us.
“The increasingly lopsided ratio of single men to single women…”
The math doesn’t work out on that claim. A woman who’s not single must be with a man who would then also not be single.
“Being stripped of a man’s natural role as provider and protector of his family is an injustice and it didn’t happen because men got too attached to their moms.”
The despondence and hopelessness happens because they haven’t detached themselves from their moms. They expect some outside force, god or some other mom substitute, to make things right for them. When it doesn’t happen they feel hopeless. This appeal to an outside force keeps them in perpetual childhood. That repulses women.
“Your solution is for men to comply with the changes, which is the attitude of a slave. You might as well tolerate the anti-white culture and everything else that gets thrown at us.”
Keeping a man in perpetual childhood is how a slave is maintained. The slave owner wants the slave to be in a state of hopelessness, looking for a solution outside of himself. Never quite feeling whole.
A free man finds his own solutions based upon his own deeper convictions and not those of some external source.
The math doesn’t work out on that claim. A woman who’s not single must be with a man who would then also not be single.
They’re sharing the same men. On Tinder and other dating apps (about half of all couples meet on these apps), anywhere from 20 to as little as 5% of the men on the app get messaged by women i.e. all women want the same small group of men. Of course these guys are spinning plates.
The despondence and hopelessness happens because they haven’t detached themselves from their moms. They expect some outside force, god or some other mom substitute, to make things right for them. When it doesn’t happen they feel hopeless. This appeal to an outside force keeps them in perpetual childhood. That repulses women.
The government practically guarantees women white collar jobs if they graduate from college (which also admit women under the same quota programs). Contrary to popular belief, it’s not blacks who benefit from Affirmative Action, it’s white women. Because of this their income levels have risen. In 1970, the average woman earned about 60% of the average man’s income. Today the average woman earns about 84% of the average man’s income. That means there are more women outearning men today than there were in 1970. They don’t need to vet a romantic partner for provider status anymore, because women provide for themselves and they don’t have to worry about accidental pregnancies or deadbeat fathers. All of the costs associated with unwanted pregnancies and deadbeat husbands has been taken care of by the courts and welfare system. If you can’t see how that has changed the needs of the average woman then you’re willfully ignorant.
What you’re saying is that the system isn’t at fault. You’re saying that the system is fine and that the problem is emotional. We got too attached to our moms, or something, and became “despondent.” (If our dads had taught us to accept the feminist system they would have been traitors to their own legacies. Imagine telling your son to accept a system that has destroyed his role as a man.)
If you believe in the system, why are you a white nationalist? Maybe if you had a strong father in the house, you might have learned to tolerate hate speech laws and open borders.
“What you’re saying is that the system isn’t at fault. You’re saying that the system is fine and that the problem is emotional. “
What I’m saying is, stop making up excuses and go get what you want.
If you want your life to change, YOU have to change it.
People haven’t changed, but their circumstances have changed to an almost incognizable extent.
In 630 AD, a man could scarcely imagine that he could sit in the beak of a metallic bird and by slamming two branches forward, he could strike at a great power’s temple with such godlike ferocity that the cumulative effort of every slave that constructed the pyramids would not equal it.
Yet, the pilot’s basic impulse was to return to that more comprehensible time, even at the cost of death.
Women are luddites of the same primitive order.
Is this supposed to be a poetic way to describe 9/11 from the perspective of the “highjacker”, they were marvels of engineering but were ugly monstrosities, much prefer the chrysler or empire state and so did most new yorkers back in 1970, skyscrapers are engineering marvels but the mathematical artistry of the pyramids and many other wonders littered all around the globe are still incomprehensible feats to us and far out of our reach
All you need to know about this woman’s article is in the headline: “The Pandemic of Lonely Men Not Women’s Problem.”
That offers a hint of the compassionate and selfless nature of this charming woman. Well, nothing is ever “women’s problem” until it affects them directly, and there is a very long list of such problems waiting in a queue to make themselves known in due course.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in these articles. Women are reporting extremely high levels of unhappiness. These are just sad girls trying to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with them being lonely and depressed.
However, she’s not wrong that most guys today are inept.
As an old Boomer who has been through a few women and a couple of marriages, my advice about women is “don’t take them seriously”. They’re not serious people in the way that men are. They’re women. Learn what that means.
I appreciate your cad-like attitude, but anyone who has the ability to put me in jail simply by calling 911 and crying crocodile tears is someone I take VERY seriously. I don’t take their emotions seriously, because their emotions are usually childlike. But women have the entire weight of the law and public sympathy on their side. THAT’S serious.
Based on extremely serious (and intensely insane) things such as the “Duluth Model,” I’ve heard story after story of men calling the police to report being hit, kicked, or even stabbed by women…and the police take the guy off to jail time after time.
It’s as serious a thing as the idea of “hate crimes,” which miraculously never affect whites, despite all the anti-white violence. Despite extensive statistical evidence that women hit men at least as often as the inverse, when the police and the public hear of “domestic violence,” it never affects men.
Adopting a cavalier attitude can help. But it won’t help you in court. Your attitude only goes so far when the law’s attitude and societal prejudices are stacked against you.
I’ve seen the most psychotic woman put a completely innocent harmless man in jail more than once.
Okay, Jim. But I didn’t intend to present a “cad-like” attitude. My intent was to inform young men that they shouldn’t expect women to seriously commit to anything other than their own well being. They don’t bond. They use the illusion of bonding to exploit. Many men have to come to that realization over a long period of time. Others learn it very abruptly.
A few souls saw this coming many years ago.
“Women possess most of the wealth. Most of the acts of men are performed to earn back some of this money owned by women—in order to give it to other women.” — Philip Wylie, 1943, Generation of Vipers.
Wylie’s critique of “momism” made him an unperson long time back, but he had a second trade, science fiction, to fall back on. “When Worlds Collide” made him a nice piece of change in the 1950s.
Women in Western nations have a curious history. Unlike the Soviet states or the patriarchal primitive nations, women have serious power from the fact they usually DO control the wealth. They inherit the fruits of their men who work themselves to death for them. Has this changed much since 1943?
I’d say yes, because now the number of transfer payments — for unwed mothers, for psychiatric care, for affirmative action — makes the death tax almost beside the point.
And we can’t ever forget women are responsible for the American police state. With Prohibition, women voted in a habit of mind we can’t escape, Organized crime got a foothold here via Prohibition, while, as Wylie again puts it: “The Prohibition agents became America’s first Gestapo.”
Drug cops became our second Gestapo. There is no scare story women won’t believe to create more restrictive laws on drugs, speech and much else.
Jared Taylor knows the score on that part:
Women Are the New Thought Police
https://www.amren.com/videos/2023/02/women-are-the-new-thought-police/
That “whopping” disparity can be explained by the rise of lesbian relationships and the statistical fact that young women, money-grubbing bleeding gashes that they are, aren’t above dating older and wealthier men, whereas young men, for obvious biological reasons, aren’t attracted to older women whose eggs have already fossilized.
It isn’t just this, it’s also the soft polygamy enabled by the sexual revolution and potentiated by dating apps. Better Bachelor on YouTube does a lot of good vids about how insanely difficult it is for the average young guy to get a piece of ass these days. Something has got to give here, and it’s going to be violent.
Also, Jim, you are a Gen-Xer, not a Boomer. You just barely made it, having been born in ’65.
I was born on 6/12/1961, but I appreciate the fact that you gave me the opportunity to poke another hole in these absurd “generational astrology” stereotypes which seem to have been indelibly tattooed on the brains of DR folks. Actually, it’s not just “dissidents”—this is an area where dissidents have fallen in lockstep with the same tropes as society at large.
Great article and I agree. “Don’t be a victim” is always good advice. Just throwing out a thought, though, in defense of the “carnival-barking clowns.” Is loneliness the problem men face, or is the problem really self-hatred?
The “black pill” folks and I agree on this one point at least: the problem is self-hatred. Not every man who can’t get a girlfriend experiences self-hatred in the same way. But I think most men who are essentially told by women (through women’s behavior – they do a good job of getting across how they really feel) that they are too inferior to have relationships will naturally experience self-hatred even if they consciously try to rationally assess their good points and bad points.
So if self-hatred is the problem, the issue is how to get rid of it. One way might be for a man to stop blaming himself for the situation. So the solution of the “incel community” is to blame women (actually I think they blame women for treating men with contempt, NOT for their refusal to date, which I think is another important point).
But there are a couple of problems with blaming women. A) It doesn’t get you anywhere. B) It doesn’t really work – the self-hatred doesn’t REALLY go away.
So the “black pill” offered by the “incel community” is not the answer. Jim is right. But I can understand their motivations.
‘But even I didn’t think things would get this bad.’
‘We…we didn’t listen!’
This is all cyclical. Rome, Greek city-states, Babylon, Egypt etc all went through similar societal rise-and-fall Greek tragedies with women gaining more power. Obviously, it was never this bad. We’ve never had a peaceful birth dearth until now. That is what the apotheosis of success creates. It is so easy and safe for women to give birth today that they simply choose not. That is the entire centerpiece of all this. Women simply don’t want children and nobody/nothing compels them to anymore, yet children have never been more necessary. When they do procreate they have significantly below replacement-level and of insignificant quality because of geriatric pregnancy, thus contracting our population and ironically making women even more invaluable relative to men. So women are sitting on this miraculous ability and letting our society lapse in order to hedge their power. This is where the algae bloom of simping from all of these thirsty chihuahuas and paternalistic dads comes from. They are protecting their investment. Helicopter parenting didn’t exist until we had so few children on average that they became prioritized compared to the brood of the baby boom. Roughly 1/8th of women are fertile (this is undoubtedly going to worsen). So just imagine how all of society is vectored in this direction, and the rest of women still receive the glamor-effect of this.
I’ve had so many men of every age c-block me lately in the most bizarre ways, but as much as I hate it I now understand it. Mate-guarding is taking many forms today by men on the periphery of inceldom. The moment his wife/gf leaves him he knows he’s right back to where incels are. That’s where the ‘ring rust’ (like a boxer who hasn’t fought in a year) develops and becomes a descending, inescapable holding-pattern of rejection the longer you’re sexless.
So I no longer blame the virtue-signaling male, the simp, the cuck or any of these guys who are actually getting laid. Things are tough all over. Nothing is stable. They are doing what they have to do to procure children or maintain their status because inceldom IS a status that is inseparable from the actual subculture. It is the most visceral form of déclassé today. Try being a young white man traveling across borders with and without a woman. The difference is stark. Your woman ironically becomes your shield from accusations of wrongdoing as a form of social proof. I was handcuffed and detained on one occasion, but whisked across with a woman.
It is why the incel pejorative is reflexive today for woman and many men as the ultimate rejoinder because it is so poignant. It is also a form of posturing by other men to distinguish themselves from the riffraff. It demonstrates just how much power women have gained in the last decade. In 2014 feminists successfully conducted a contra slut-shaming/fat-shaming campaign. That did not eliminate the cosmic energy to shame/belittle antisocial/improper behavior that has always and will always exist in society on the neural level. It just transferred over to men because, like electricity, it has to go somewhere even if you turn off the switch. This is also when incel also became mainstream. Shame is now entirely one-sided because of this transpositional dynamic of fempowerment and male disempowerment.
Everybody already knows the bad things men do. We never hear the end of it. But most people have now forgotten the terrible things women do because of this purposeful imbalance. This is why I supported the manosphere and all of its negativity directed towards women because I saw it as a necessary check on runaway gynocentrism. The problem is that the manosphere got so much wrong with its ‘bro-science.’ There won’t be a Taliban-like revolution in our countries as much as we hope. It will just be a gangrenous rot in a tragedy-of-the-commons as can be seen with urban/rural decay and basic commerce. Everything is understaffed today because there is no incentive for undersexed men to work beyond basic sustenance. That is what will cripple this system. Women in fact do need men to protect and build/repair for them on the macro level and forcibly fight all of the wars they vote us into. So certain choke points will always exist and rupture to create this vicious cycle because women are not actually independent when it comes down to it.
And sorry, Jim, but younger women do not date older men these days. It’s the inversion. Even my Republican, hypergamous mom is engaged to a guy a decade younger who is like 6’5” with blonde hair, blue eyes, built like an athlete and an international businessman who takes her all over the world. My Republican grandmother regular dates and dismisses men a decade younger too. I stopped telling women my age because they started discriminating when I turned 26. They have so many options that they have to winnow them somehow.
You do well with women now because you’re handsome, youthful and famous at your age.
Someone above said women are not dating older men these days. Maybe less so than 70 years ago. But the numbers don’t lie and I see it regularly. The older guy can’t be a trainwreck though. Given that women generally have a lower sex drive than men, an age difference can also more evenly balance libidos. It gets better for you guys in your younger 20s, so hang in there and don’t adopt a poisoned mindset.
The authoress of “…Not Women’s Problem” writes “Must enhance a woman’s life” with the haughty entitlement of an unmarried woman. Hmm, is it just a coincidence that I never hear happily married couples speak this way? Well you know who to avoid when you google a prospective date’s online writings. Like Goad, I learned my lesson after once ignoring red flags of excessive entitlement and a woman’s generalized resentment towards all men. Don’t be the male equivalent who sees all women the same way.
But if this is a growing permanent trend towards men, it will be self correcting. Women who can’t get along with men won’t breed. They will be replaced by immigrants who are way more patriarchal than white men. These leftist chicks seemingly have never met an immigrant family who are Latinx, Middle Eastern, Korean. There is a belief that when these groups arrive in the US they stop reproducing as much. Somewhat. But the population demographic shifts seem to say otherwise.
And consider Michel Houllebecq’s novel Submission, which imagined unchecked Islamization of France. Shocking at first, the self correction occurs when the men start pursuing arranged marriages with much younger women.
I’ve never met a “Latinx” family. I know a bunch if Hispanic families, Columbian, Mexican, Dominican, Puerto Rican, etc., but never a “Latinx” one.
Latin Americans usually don’t even think of themselves as “Hispanic” until they come to the USA and are categorized as such. They think of themselves as Colombians, Mexicans, Venezuelans, Chileans, etc. Their identity as “Hispanic” is basically the result of their Americanization. The concept of “Latinx” is the result of lefty indoctrination (which sadly passes for being ‘educated’ these days).
I recently spoke with a woman from Ecuador. She lives in an immigrant bubble, speaks very little English (our conversation was in Spanish), and is largely uninfluenced by American culture. I mentioned the concept of “Latinx” to her. She never heard of it. It’s an American leftist/elitist concept. She apparently doesn’t make contact with that social set.
I don’t find Latinx too bad a term. It’s convenient in the way ‘Asian’ is convenient, despite the Japanese and Chinese not feeling south Asians are their equals or peers.
Thanks for not listing every one of those countries. There is also a difference between dating and settling down. Women love to brag about even getting an email from a high status guy. A younger guy might hit up an older woman thinking she will be easy sex. Only to find she is no more likely to get into bed, no less easygoing, but will enjoy boasting of dating younger men. The guy is thinking he’s got a short term in-between relationship thing, and she’s quickly wanting him to meet her friends so they can spread the word that young guys are into her.
And the younger the partner, and the easier they arrive, the more likely they are bad news.
Brilliant and spot on. F Roger Devlin has delivered what I believe to be the best diagnosis by far of why never relations are so bad in the west, and most articles on the matter — like this one— only touch on a small piece of that puzzle. You hit some of the larger trends, of which women not wanting and accepting the sacrifices inherent in having children and ‘settling’ for a guy in her league to support her and the kids. Instead, our women are traveling, sleeping with guys out of their commitment-league throughout their fertile years, and acting like men basically. Virtually all men have the instinct to protect and provide for a woman, but that instinct only gets triggered when you’re around a woman with protecting and providing for. There just ain’t many women out there with virtue and modesty, largely because those more traditional women are viciously ridiculed and ostracized by other women. What point is there in being the best man you be and taking the risks to build something great if there is no family for you at the end?
I had a good guy friend at work whose ex wife had cheated on him with her boss, then got dumped by the boss so of course she came crawling back around her ex, my friend. He was torn, because he had loved her and was heartbroken, but as a female I was able to give him the straight poop: don’t fall for it because she will do it again, guaranteed. I told him the only acceptable response to her was to completely and totally ignore her. Don’t answer calls texts or the door, no matter what. True story; she ended up in an inpatient facility within about a month. And he ended up marrying a really lovely girl that gave him two boys.
Interesting. I’m friends with a Dutch woman who was injured at work, became disabled, and as part of her “rebound” from the injury she turned to alcohol. There, she met a hot bartender who could multitask. She gave him a blind reference to an IT firm in the Netherlands hardly even knowing him. Then, he proved himself to be an absolute tech genius. Only uses Linux and all. So they started living together even though they weren’t married. It turns out, she really screwed herself because in the Netherlands you don’t have to be legally married to be “married”: cohabitation is sufficient if you live in government-subsidized housing, which this woman was qualified for, but he was not. So she holds a lot of resentment towards him because he earns a lot more while she has to work cleaning houses, cooking him food, etc. She thinks he’s autistic, and they stopped having sex before long: he had a heart attack a few weeks after he received the COVID vax, and she’s been stuck caring for him ever since.
I’m directing her here.
https://counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/sticker.webp
It’s curious. To me as someone who identifies as a white nationalist, seeking approval or adoration from others seems like a fool’s errand. Yet this seems to be a running theme with incels.
I actually don’t think many incels are right wing at all, definitely not as a rule. They’re not even white for the most part, at least in my experience. This is the obvious disconnect I’m seeing: the media image of an incel as a bullied and bitter young white male (who will inevitably get laid in his late teens or twenties) and the reality, which is often permanently unattractive swarthy guys, many of them asian or part-asian, who get mad at white women for not giving them the time of day.
It’s really nothing to do with the dissident right, as much as the media would like it to be.
They’re not even white for the most part, at least in my experience.
“In a 2019 survey, done through Reddit, of 1,267 incels, 55 per cent identified as white.“
In my experience, the self-identified trademarked incels such as Andy Nowicki are mostly white. And the [cough] America First crowd makes open appeals to incels with sales pitches such as “Having sex with women is gay.” Then again, the self-appointed leader of the AF crowd isn’t white, so perhaps Official Inceldom along with AF are two of the most truly multicultural movements of our age.
That’s interesting. I suppose if a group is only 55% white it probably can’t be called white, at least not as a defining trait. A 55% white person probably wouldn’t appear white, or call himself white for that matter.
Media outlets however love to frame this as an issue of the “scary white people” variety. I do wonder how reporting on the incel folks would change if they were 55% black – would it then become the fault of white women that ugly black guys are so lonely?
“I do wonder how reporting on the incel folks would change if they were 55% black…”
Yeah and how would they explain the massive plummet in rape case?
Judging by the rape statistics, I think we can all agree black men are getting plenty of action.
I get the impression that the proportion of non-White incels is greater than that of White Incels. Alpha-male blacks get first dibs into the women of their community; lesser males get whatever few and far between scraps are left behind, because unlike high-trust European and North East Asian societies with ethnicities that co-operate for the greater good for the longer term, sub-Saharan-African societies particularly, are rooted in the here-and-now, instant-gratification mode of existence – I SEE. I WANT. I TAKE – and to Hell with everyone else!
I’m convinced Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans represent not just different races but different hominid species. The genetic, biological and behavioral evidence points in that direction.
I have been reading Counter Currents since the summer of last year after accidentally coming across it via another website. I was immediately hooked and couldn’t stop reading. I am very grateful to Greg Johnson and the other writers for initiating my journey to the far right – I have learnt so much and will be forever indebted to you. I have converted my boyfriend, my father, my grandfather and have started talking to my sister. I helped to convince her to start her family early instead of buying more pets. Where I live, there is no freedom of speech and the nation is widely believed to be fallen, but I am working to improve my situation and prepare for whatever may come. I have always spoken against the desecration of my beloved White menfolk and been horrified at what many women believe about them, but I know now that it was always the plan of the Jew to turn us against each other. I have agonised over what has happened to the Incels. I try to speak to them online but it is difficult. They believe there are no good women anywhere. My boyfriend believes that they will follow strength, just like the women will, and there is no use in me trying to convince them.
I understand that many White women have lost their way and treat men terribly. I understand that women are not victims and within our psyche there are some dark traits. That is why I chose a strong man to guide me.
But now I feel I must speak up. It is wrong for women to talk badly about ‘all men’ and it is wrong for men to talk badly about ‘all women’. I respected Jim Goad and I looked up to him. I have been in tears today after reading the article and all the comments. I feel betrayed. I always believed that the good men of the Right loved their women and believe that we are, or at least will be, a dear and treasured asset. I finally accept, after many similar articles and comments, that I was wrong.
Whilst at first I was happy to give back all my rights I have started to doubt your ability or even your desire to take care of women. I just don’t trust you anymore. You don’t signal strength and leadership when you write pieces like this. Not only do the female readers of Counter Currents deserve better, the Incels do too. I believe that if Adolf Hitler were alive to read this he would be ashamed.
Appreciate your honesty, Eva Braun, though perhaps not the Hitler worship. I’m not sure anyone wants to take your rights away, so no need to give ‘em up. Perhaps you could specify the odious passages, excepting commenters who get carried away on this site on almost any topic. I see a lot of venting about some women, but not all women. If I can draw one key sentence from Jim’s article it’s the observation that
Whenever men have a problem, it’s men’s fault. And whenever women have a problem, it’s also men’s fault. It’s mystifying how men just can’t catch a break in this patriarchy.
There is a rampant double standard in the mainstream. Suicide of men is way higher than women. If these guys are sometimes brusquely howling at the moon at their loneliness and suffering, the mainstream reply is “Guys, the problem is you, you need to change to be happier.” In some cases, yes.
When women report unhappiness, is this the societal response? If a mainstream publication ever published something to the effect of “women need to change” the national power grid might blow because everyone simultaneously spat out coffee onto their screens.
Once in awhile someone’s solution is that there be fewer guns so to decrease suicide, but not much talk about why these young guys feel unhinged. Once in awhile I hear a pundit say, the guys aren’t in touch with their feelings, they’re not expressing their emotions. Maybe they aren’t listening.
I’m not sure anyone wants to take your rights away, so no need to give ‘em up.
Why couldn’t women give themselves rights? Why were they in a subordinate position where men had to give them their rights?
Men will never hold women to the same standard that they hold men to because it defies their programming. Men have been selected by nature to protect and provide for their families. They will never treat women as equals under the law in practice. Standards for men and women will always be different.
Women don’t wage war so there’s no threat of insurrection. Such behavior defies a woman’s instincts.
There really is no basis for women’s rights. It’s an egalitarian sham that has done immeasurable harm to white nations.
“Adolf Hilter“? Are you talking about this guy?
Thank you for showing me my mistake. I will amend my comment.
I think you should ask one one of your younger male converts to read through the article and comments and see what he makes of them. They all seem pretty tame to me.
If there is to be a white nationalist state it is not going to be set up like Atwood’s ‘Gilead.’ Women will continue to have more rights than men, just as they have in the West for centuries if not millennia. Will there be male only spheres, such as the military? Quite probably, but rest assured women will once more be respected as the mothers of the nation in a way that is currently impossible.
I asked my boyfriend to read the article and comments before I decided to reply and he was not impressed. It was he who encouraged me to reply.
Well that makes two of you I guess.
I haven’t yet personally suffered unduly at the hands of a woman empowered by the state but it is a common phenomenon and this forum is dedicated to telling the truth. You’ve been honest about how this article has offended you both, which is commendable. I wonder whether your beau would just really prefer that you weren’t reading the honest opinions of a group of men about women. That would be a perfectly natural position for him to take.
I think the description in one comment of young women as ‘money-grubbing, bleeding gashes’ is a bit off. It’s locker-room talk. To the extent that it is true it reflects the materialism which dominates modern society but then all else being equal a woman ought to secure a husband with resources if she can.
Duplicate
I’m sure you are a good person and I somewhat believe your unlikely story of female proselytization of WN, but what you’re asking for is typical of virtually any other woman who encroaches upon male spaces. You see a handful of comments that don’t genuflect to this ideal image of all things female and you drop the shtick, feign damsel-in-distress and demand censorship, ignominy and assimilatory gynocentrism. That makes me question your discipline. Jim Goad did hard time because of a woman. He is now a felon. He has a right to be angry. I still think he isn’t nearly hard enough on women. We are all victims of women these days in some form and yet women won’t even let us talk about it anywhere. The only outlet for men these days churns out the lunacy that is the manosphere. Is that really what you want? Please cut it out. None of us victimized you. If you aren’t one of these women then stop internalizing it. We are being objective here.
Yeah, her initial comment was a classic case of “The woman cries out in pain as she strikes you.”
I don’t see anything remotely objectionable about Goad’s article. It’s neutral and even-handed. He advises incels against blaming all women for their problems, so I’m not sure where you got the “all women” thing from. If you think Goad is misogynistic, you ain’t seen nothin’.
Charlotte,
I will assume you are who you say you are. I’m going to address what you said, sticking to my theme of “incel” self-hatred.
With “incels,” yes, it’s ALL women. But remember the lens of self-hatred through which they see the world. Also remember that people in a self-hating frame of mind tend to be self-centered.
ALL women .. what? All women are bad, rude, arrogant, evil?
No. ALL women “find me ugly, unattractive, inferior.” Therefore there is no hope, no chance.
“They believe there are no good women anywhere.” No. They believe there are no women anywhere who do not find them to be inferior. They believe there are no women anywhere with whom they can share friendship or love. They believe that totally, by the way, as much as they believe in the law of gravity or that the sun rises in the east.
You yourself acknowledge that “many” women have “lost their way” and treat men badly. To “incels” those women are the ones who don’t allow social conventions – you know, old fashioned things like courtesy, or things like “fairness” and “equality” that you often hear women preach about – to keep them from honestly expressing their feelings.
I’ll say that ALL men (or practically all anyway), including “incels,” are able to see that there are some women who strive to be decent, and in fact some that are truly kind-hearted. Such women make “incels” feel worse, because they see that women ARE capable of interacting with them in such a way that does not make them feel worthless.
They imagine what a world filled with “nice” women would be like. They imagine they could cope in such a world. “Women think I’m okay. Well, they don’t want to go out with me, I can tell they aren’t attracted to me like that. But that’s because I’m ugly – I can see that for myself in the mirror. But they seem to enjoy chatting with me when I bump into them at the bus stop or the grocery store. Heck, it’s not my fault that I’m ugly, and I have my good points – I really AM okay.”
But the solid majority of women (in my opinion) are not “nice” and in fact would be instantly recognized as being horribly racist if they treated “minorities” the way they treat “incels.”
Several decades ago the workers at the grocery store Safeway threatened to strike because management tried to create a new policy: all check-out clerks would be required to smile at the customer and say “have a nice day.” This was opposed by half of the union – the female half – because they said if they did that they would get sexually harassed. The male half of the union supported the women and management had to back down.
A man with good self-esteem actually MIGHT “harass” a friendly female check-out clerk – but no “incel” ever would. As I said, “incels” truly believe they have no chance at all with women. But their general mood could be lifted by friendly clerks.
“Incels” hate THEMSELVES, not women. But they are angry at women because they imagine they could learn to hate themselves less and get on with life if women treated them better.
Dear Jeff,
Charlotte is my middle name 🙂
It isn’t the Incels that have upset me. I know what they have to deal with on dating apps and the like, and I know it’s awful. They don’t have the psychological strength to deal with an increased rejection rate from a large number of women who don’t even take care of themselves. If I was a man I would potentially be an Incel (given how emotional you see I am).
What has upset me is repeatedly observing the same sentiment from a group of men I used to admire and see as the forefront of the movement. They are negative and pessimistic about women and there is rarely any effort to make exceptions for the female readers from their vituperation. In response to my comment there appears to me to have been mostly superficial self reflection and denial. It is a reaction reminiscent of the dark feminine they espouse revulsion of, a continuation of the pathology that enslaves the Incels.
I have reread the article and comments and whilst I have great sympathy for all of their difficulties at the hands of untethered and cruel women, Jim in particular, I still stand by what I have said.
I believe that it is the job of men to be leaders, and for leaders to lead they must inspire devotion. They do this via competence and strength. I expected better of the men of Counter Currents because I saw them as better. When you lead, you improve men, which improves women, which furthers our cause.
I am sorry that I have said some hurtful things, however I did deliberate beforehand and I decided that they needed to be said. Greg Johnson has said that women are welcome at Counter Currents but I feel that perhaps his two thirds male audience would prefer our absence.
Remember the fact that you have a female presence means that something is working. When you are at your best you are inspiring.
I care about everyone here and I wish them well. Thank you for taking the time to read what I have to say.
“I helped to convince her to start her family early instead of buying more pets.”
Congratulations! This is a wonderful outcome that will outlast the mere screechings and comments made here.
Sorry that you feel disenchanted with the comments made here. I attribute this partially to “venting” by the guys. Believe me, if you ever went to a white nationalist (WN) conference, you’d find the men acting very gracious and politely towards you & your husband.
I think this was an important and very helpful article. It also substantially improved my opinion of Jim Goad. Previously I thought Mr. Goad was belittling or demeaning those of us guys who were dating women, but didn’t have the machismo or savoir-faire that he had in being able to sweep them off their feet. I did listen to the audio of his Ex’s messages and now see that what he had to go thru was pretty bad.
It’s good that this was clarified as I really didn’t like being called an incel. For the record, I should state that I’m divorced & even older than Mr. Goad and amazingly still alive!
But the biggest achievement of this article was that it got a huge number of responses and engagement from C-C readers. Admittedly some of them made it seem that WN guys were upset with women and future articles could ask them to be more thoughtful. Rest assured that not all WN single guys hate or dislike women. It’s like everything else, there are people of all kinds. WN sites can also collect {accumulate?} a number of “anti-establishment” types or conspiracy theorists who aren’t particularly dedicated solely to WN.
Thank you for your congratulations and for being kind to me Nicholas. I’m glad that you think the discussion has been worthwhile and that you have sorted some things out yourself. You have never struck me as being an Incel for what it’s worth.
For the record, I started my deplorable writing career in the Manosphere, specializing in scathing critiques of feminism. However, as much of a Neanderthal as I am, I carefully try not to generalize about all women possessing some bad characteristic or another. So that’s at least one of us here!
That said, I hope you’ll take a deep breath, relax, and try not to let it get you down. Cheers!
I was not sure if I should reply further because it seems that we may not be communicating. As one commenter said, the responses to this article are all over the board, and many of the responses are emotionally-driven (and I would not judge someone harshly for something they write when they are upset or angry or otherwise in some sort of agitated state).
Charlotte (middle name),
I understood from your earlier message that you were unhappy with the men of this website. You consider this website to be a “movement.” I am pretty new here so as far as I know maybe it IS supposed to be about “White Nationalism” but to me it seems to be a place to learn, read opinions and exchange ideas.
I thought you were mad at “incels” also but it seems to me now from your comments that you consider them to be so small as to be beneath contempt. Beyond being marginal, they are so weak and inferior that they are less than human. You wouldn’t get mad at a doorknob or an ant either. The poor little dears.
I don’t consider “incels” to be inferior. I think the only requirement to join that club is to be less than attractive physically. A big nose, crooked teeth or ears that stick out are all that is required.
You say good men will attract a female “presence.” But I know that male serial killers attract female “presence.” I’ve heard stories about hot guys on dating apps who get “swipes” (or “likes” or whatever) even when they have non-physical attributes that are atrocious (I think some of these “profiles” are fictitious social experiments that test the idea that women aren’t just attracted by looks). I’m currently reading the novel “Once An Eagle” and one of the things about the book that I find striking is how the hero (Sam Damon, a real “man’s man”) often gets treated as badly by women as any other guy. I think that’s probably true to life, although that isn’t what is usually portrayed. The idea that women are always good to good men (and vice-versa, that they are disdainful of bad men) is one of the things women use to make men feel bad about themselves. I think the idea is generally false (but is also often true, I’m sure).
As for your former hero, Jim Goad, you seem to be very disappointed to learn that he is “anti-woman.” He has referred to a woman in his life and I think (if he wanted to get personal with you) he would tell you that he values and appreciates that woman very much, and I’m sure there are several other women he would praise highly. In this article he is trying to persuade his readers that he DOES understand where they are coming from. I don’t think he would normally write about wanting to punch Melanie Allan, for example, except in this context. But whatever he would write about, note that Jim has not and will not punch her. I would not judge him for an emotional reaction to her article.
(I did want to say that I did not find Melanie’s article to be particularly well-written, but it did not make me angry – I’ve heard that stuff often enough before – and I did find one of her points to be very interesting. She says that men are not competing with other men when it comes to women, but instead are competing with all the other ways women have of making themselves happy without men. I think she is being honest here and deserves credit for that. Jim asked in a comment for a different article when it was that women stopped being attracted to men. As I think another commenter for this article said, maybe women actually never really were very much attracted to men. Maybe whatever or Whoever made women – evolution or God – did not include in their nature the same sort of drive that men have to connect with women. For any woman reading this – this drive that I’m talking about here about involves MUCH more than just lust/sex.)
To summarize: Jim is warning self-hating (or lonely) “incels” to not get tangled up with the “incel movement” and get themselves stuck on hating/blaming women. And I’m just trying to say that ugly guys (“incels”) should try to avoid self-hatred (well, and I’m also trying to convince people of my beliefs about the whole situation. I am much more sympathetic toward “incels” than the average person – as is Jim, as he is trying to say, and WITHOUT saying that he hates “women” but rather the double standards in society).
Avoid self-hatred – wow, sounds like great advice, doesn’t it? Kind of obvious, like “buy low, sell high.” And the worst part is, I really don’t know how to do that. I think it’s true that our beliefs about ourselves come from the outside – with how we are treated – and it’s true that there is no shortage at all of hatred and contempt for boys and men and especially (as we are talking about in this case) physically unattractive men.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/mar/04/research.booksonhealth
If this website really IS a movement – if we really ARE trying to solve the problems of the world here – then we desperately need to figure out how to overcome this. There are plenty of brilliant scientists and inventors, or great musicians and writers and builders and so on, who have been less than handsome. And who wouldn’t have accomplished anything if they had fallen into the trap of self-hatred. And who might have fallen into that trap if they hadn’t been living in a monogamous society without social media and birth control.
As I look over the comments, they are all over the place ranging from Freudian psychosexual explanations of men’s woes, bitching about bitches, happy 2nd marriages, accusations that women are money focused, someone thinking women should have no rights, to someone imagining a white utopia where women have ‘more rights than men’, to those saying don’t be ‘black pilled’ about women. Some I’m not sure what’s the “same sentiment” you find echoed in all this.
Your comments are welcome. But no one here (including me) has the right to expect everyone should agree with their positions. In fact the whole modern culture suffers from groups that expect their ass kissed when they are just pains in the ass. So guys will be suspicious any time they think a comment has suggestion of “I’m an underrepresented minority here and you need to agree with what I say.” That’s what the Kulture is saying about every privileged group, no matter what the data shows.
Someone above suggests you ‘cut it out’. I hope you don’t take it to mean you don’t have a voice here and you should be free to express your thoughts. But as the saying goes, “Persuasion is more effectual than force.”
One short note: the disparity between single men and single women is caused more by women in their mid-to-late 20s dating guys in their 30s and multiple women dating the same guy than lesbian relationships. A lot of women identify as bisexual now since it is fashionable but the incidence of homosexual behavior has not increased much. 90% of “bisexual” women in relationships are dating men according to one poll I saw.
Men can get a pretty big second wind once they turn 30, not so much women, when it comes to sexual market value.