Horus the Avenger Interviews Charles Krafft, Part 1Charles Krafft
Part 1 of 2 (Part 2 here)
The following is a transcript of Charles Krafft‘s interview with Tim Murdock, aka Horus the Avenger, on EndGame Exotica at White Rabbit Radio. The interview was originally broadcast on January 30, 2015. We would like to thank Hyacinth Bouquet for the transcript.
Tim Murdock: This is Horus the Avenger, and you’re listening to End Game Exotica Interview Series. Today we have a very special guest. He is an artist friend of ours, and there are several; but he is very prominent and well-known. His name is Charles Krafft. We are working with him on a project — at least one — called the White Genocide Disasterware plates, and our in-house artist is working with him.
He’s working on all kinds of interesting things! The interesting thing about Mr. Krafft is that he became famous for swastikas on cows — or, infamous, I should say — and Hitler teapots. But that is actually just a small percentage of his work. The reason he became famous is because he had it out with the you-know-who.
I want to bring on Charles Krafft, and get into a little bit of the story about him, and see what he’s got cooking out there on the West coast.
Charles, are you with me?
Charles Krafft: Yes, I’m right here.
TM: What’s interesting about your artwork is that the Hitler teapots, and the stuff that made the headlines once you got into it with the you-know-who — the Jews — because of your views on Romania, or whatever it was you were stating regarding World War II, you’re very into that type of stuff. They made a big focus on that, but that is such a small percentage of your work; and anyone who wants to know his work, of course — give your website out, Charles, before you start talking. I forgot about that.
CK: They can go to www.CharlesKrafft.com. But I have to tell you that what you’re going to find there is my ceramics work, and I was a painter before I was a ceramicist. There’s not a lot of visual information about my career as a painter prior to 1992, when I switched mediums. That’s a result of me not getting it uploaded; and, also, not a lot of interest in my paintings. Mostly, the interest has been in the ceramics.
TM: What’s interesting is that I believe I saw one of your paintings for sale at an art gallery online quite a while ago. I noticed someone had one for sale; and I knew you did paintings, but I had never seen one.
For those of you who don’t know, he’s on Instagram, he’s loading stuff onto Instagram as well. You can easily find Charles Kraft on the Google. There’s an interesting video, though.
CK: Hey, Horus, I have to tell the listening audience that I spell my name with two “f”s; so, it’s K-r-a-f-f-t.
TM: They’ll see that when the see the interview. They’ll see “Charles Krafft,” and they’re so lazy, Charles, they’ll copy the “Charles Krafft” I write for Endgame Exotica Series, and they’ll just paste it right into their Googles.
CK: Oh, okay.
TM: I got you covered there. Yeah, it is with two “f”s. What’s interesting is there is a video of your ceramics processes on YouTube. You guys can look up Charles Krafft. You can copy and paste that into YouTube. There’s an interesting series on your — is it “sponeware”?
CK: Yeah, you got that right. “Spone.”
TM: And the different artists around the planet who do different things like you; and what’s unique about his process for this particular sponeware, and all his particular ceramics. You can go to YouTube and it is super-informative, actually. I found it very informative.
CK: The sponeware is human bone china, and I make it out of crematory ash. The video of me on YouTube, one of them, is where I’m creating a reliquary for a deceased friend of mine.
TM: Yeah, and when I first heard that, before I watched the video, it sounds a lot more grisly than it really is. All you’re doing is you’re taking ashes and creating an artistic memorabilia of a person that is very striking and beautiful. It sounds a little more grisly than it actually is.
CK: No, I learned through my study of the history of ceramics that bone china is not about the color of the china, it’s about the bone content in it; and it was first made with calcinated cow bone, which would be cow bone ash. I substituted crematory — human bone ash — for the proportion of cow bone ash that was used in the 1800s at the Spode factory. They came up with bone china first.
TM: I don’t think many people know that. That’s where you get it from. They actually use bone in bona china; that’s why it’s called that. You go into that in the video. It’s very informative.
CK: I thought I would launch this service for people to commemorate their dead family and friends, and it didn’t go very far. I still occasionally get a request to make a reliquary for somebody.
TM: To be honest with you, I know a lot of people who get cremated who never heard of such a thing. I think it’s that most people don’t know about it. I don’t think it’s that you couldn’t get a lot of business from it, I just think most people don’t know about it.
CK: There’s kind of a renaissance going on in the funerary arts right now, and artists are getting involved in commemorating the dead in more creative ways than just burial, because you’ve probably noticed that real estate is getting more and more expensive.
TM: Oh, my God! The mausoleums, the private mausoleums, the cost of a burial plot, the cost of caskets.
CK: Yes, the whole thing.
TM: I know someone who runs a discount caskets place, they sell them online. You just don’t want to walk into a funeral home — if anyone’s listening — and just buy the casket they show you without looking online and looking around; because they will rob you blind. You are much better off; in fact, you could save a tremendous amount of money. I don’t know anyone getting cremated, but if I did, I would suggest something like this, because one, it’s a lot cheaper. Two, it looks very cool! Very cool stuff.
CK: There is also the Neptune Society, which used to be the cheapest way to go; but they’re being undercut, too, for cremation. I don’t know who else is competing with them, but I’m signed up and paid up with Neptune. This is a national group that has an international reach; so, if I die in a foreign country, they’ll take care of it there. Both my parents were Neptune Society members. I watched how they operated with my two deceased parents, and so I signed up, too. Rather than pay this — see, they do the same thing that everybody does who has credit cards. They’re charging you interest to pay by the month. I started getting these bills from them, like a $35 a month payment, towards I think it was $1,200 net. The charges were more than what I was told they were going to be; and then they explained to me that this was some sort of an interest payment that I had to make, and I said, “Well, screw that, I’ll just pay it all up front.”
TM: Let me back up for listeners. The Neptune Society is somewhere that will cremate you for one cost wherever you are in the world?
CK: Wherever you are in the world is a little bit extra; but wherever you are in the United States, too. That would be cheaper.
TM: If you died, the Neptune Society covers your cremation and everything else for that one up-front charge?
CK: Yes. It was really cheap in the old days, and now it has climbed to about $1,200 I think.
TM: The last person I know who put in for cremation got it done for a whole lot cheaper than that. I don’t know. I don’t know enough about it.
CK: My policy is probably a little bit more than somebody else’s because I do a lot of traveling. If I drop dead in, let’s say, Romania, they’ll take care of it. Or, India; they’ll take care of it there.
TM: Yes, that would be very expensive. I know a good friend of the show, Robert Whitaker, who wrote this message, this consistent message, called “The Mantra,” about white genocide, and all the little “anti-racism is a code-word for anti-white” stuff, now he’s getting frozen — big time, big money, frozen. What do they call it? Cryogenics? He’s getting that done, which I thought was kind of funny!
CK: Why does he want to be — cryogenics — why does he want his body preserved?
TM: Because he wants to come back to life 5,000 years from now when we need him again. I don’t know! I don’t know. I haven’t gone into it. It’s his money, it’s his life; whatever! However you want to be buried, be buried. I kind of like the old Viking stuff, where they build the big funeral pyres; and you’re reduced to ashes, pretty quickly. I think that’s pretty cool, or sending them out in a ship. There’s all kinds of cool stuff out there.
CK: Horus, isn’t Timothy Leary — they cremated two-thirds of Timothy Leary and left his head cryogenically frozen somewhere?
TM: There are some of them that have done that, yes. I don’t keep up with this type of thing, so I don’t know.
CK: Leary and Ray Bradbury.
TM: There are a few famous heads they’ve done this to; a few famous brains, which may be a good thing, or may be a bad thing. I don’t know.
Let’s bring you guys up to date. Most of your work, if I go to www.CharlesKrafft.com, I’m going to see a lot that looks very cool, very sophisticated, pro-white. A lot of it has a little pro-white tint. It’s very white. The artwork is very white, it’s very European. It is also very — is it considered pop culture?
CK: I have a little niche in a movement that’s called “Lowbrow.”
TM: That’s what I was thinking of, Lowbrow.
CK: It started out as being Lowbrow, and then it got changed to Pop Surrealism, because the Lowbrow artists didn’t like the moniker “lowbrow.” In Europe it’s called Urban Art or Street Art.
TM: So it has a variety of different names for it. One of the things he’s working on, just to fill the audience in, is an Oprah Winfrey cookie jar. I know that’s one of the pieces you’re working on right now. It’s kind of patterned after something like a mammy cookie jar, or something like that?
CK: Yes, exactly. It’s going to be a twenty-first century mammy cookie jar.
TM: You can go to the site. He does Ahmadinejad; he does Nick Griffin from the BNP. He does all kind of different characters. You’ve got the Disasterware Plate of Dresden. There is some famous stuff, and there are — what is it? — the cow coffee creamer . . .
CK: Mad Cow Coffee Creamer.
TM: There you go. You’ve got the rabbits. Full disclosure, I own a piece. I own — what is it? Sniffle bunny?
TM: Snuggle Bunny, that’s it! It was on the tip of my tongue; that’s it. I’m probably going to have a picture of it next to your interview. I own Snuggle Bunny, which was booted out of France!
CK: Listen to this, it was removed from a show in Paris after the show opened, after that article about me went viral.
TM: What was the name of the show?
CK: It had a couple of names; but it was put on by a magazine there called, Hey! Hey! magazine is the French equivalent of Juxtapoz magazine in the United States. They’re into Lowbrow art, European style.
TM: So I can brag that this was Hey! magazine, in France. It was on this big display, and they kicked it out; and I bought it! I snatched it up.
CK: I was in pretty august company in that exhibition. That might have been the validation of my Lowbrow credentials. Then an antifa blogsite got wind of that Stranger article about me and translated it into French; and then the curators of the show somehow were apprised of its existence. After they read it, they said we’re removing your work from the show.
TM: Yes, they could probably go to jail in France for displaying your work.
CK: They gave me the Gayssot law in France. It’s the Fabius-Gayssot law, the anti-revisionist law there; the hate-speech law that they use to censor people.
TM: Censor non-Jews — they don’t censor Jews.
TM: That’s kind of funny, because there’s all this talk about how free speech in France is under threat from the Left. Like, where have you been? They never had free speech: Brigitte Bardot, Le Pen; these guys went to jail.
CK: Listen, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala got picked up right after that massacre, and Robert Faurisson is probably one of the premier Holocaust revisionists in the world.
TM: He’s a mulatto individual who does this salute called — my mind has gone blank today for some reason.
CK: The quenelle.
TM: There you go, the quenelle. He does this salute; and just for the audience, I’ve covered this, but he’s always into trouble over something he says. He’s kind of like the new Le Pen, the mulatto Le Pen that everyone runs around. I don’t particularly care for the guy, but he does obviously have it out with the CRIF Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions], and CRIF is the big organization there. They’re like the like the Anti-Defamation League of France, and they pretty much run the place, in my opinion, as far as the speech laws go. Whatever they want done, they get done.
CK: He’s a comedian; that’s all he is. He’s a stand-up comedian who is an anti-Zionist.
TM: Yes, he’s anti-Zionist. I’m pretty sure he’s said some funny things about the Jews. I obviously support his right to free speech, and all that kind of stuff; I just think it’s kind of funny that they start picking on him; he’s become the poster child. All the others are in jail. If he were white, I think he would have been cooked a long time ago, a lot harder; but that’s another story for another day.
CK: Did you hear about Le Pen’s house catching on fire a few days ago?
TM: Yes, I did. I always report that kind of news. Le Pen got out safely, though; just a bruise on his face.
Back to the Oprah Winfrey cookie jars. We got stuff cooking here; and you, basically, became infamous for really — kind of like petty — talking about World War II revisionism. In my opinion, it was all blown out of proportion; but if you don’t bow down and scrape on your belly, and whine, and throw yourself on the altar of the almighty, and play up your anti-white credentials, they’re pretty much going to skewer you, if you’re an artist. That’s what I’ve come to believe; or if you’re in the public spotlight at all, but you came under heavy fire for things you said about World War II. Wasn’t it regarding Romania?
CK: Yes. Essentially, I had made a blanket statement about not believing the whole history, the received history, of the Holocaust. That was a blanket statement. I arrived at my conclusions through the study of Romanian interbellic history, between the wars.
TM: That’s not [something] a lot of pro-whites are into; the Romanian angle on it. What got you interested in that, because I know you are the amateur historian of this?
CK: It was kind of by serendipity. I picked up a pulp paperback to take on a bus ride; the title was Nazis in America, and I read it. There was one chapter on a Romanian archbishop, Valerian Trifa, that intrigued me because the author was saying that the Romanian Iron Guard, which this archbishop had been associated with, was more virulently anti-Semitic than the SS. I thought, “God, how can anybody be more anti-Semitic than those people, and more vicious?”
TM: Okay; so at the time, you were kind of anti-Nazi — how long ago was this?
CK: I went along with the whole — the received history of World War II; that this was the Greatest Generation fighting an evil.
TM: I got you. How old were you at the time? How long ago was this?
CK: Well, this was about ’97 or ’98. I’m 67 years old, so . . .
TM: So, basically, in the late nineties. You’re 67 years old. I thought your transformation came before that? So this is kind of a recent thing, that you made your transition in your worldview. In the late nineties you’re reading a book about Nazi history in America, and you’re like, “Oh, this is interesting.” Then, you start reading about Romania; and all of a sudden, you go from one position, one extreme, to believing that, well, we’re fed a lot of bullshit here.
CK: I returned from my first visit to Eastern Europe around 1990. I went to Sarajevo, by the way, during the war; so let’s say I was starting to drift away from this idea that the received history of World War II — let’s say I made my final break with it, and became a revisionist, around the year 2000.
TM: So all during the nineties, you were going through a big discovery process!
CK: Yes, and I was in Eastern Europe.
TM: How did you end up in Sarajevo, because that was a pretty dangerous frickin’ place at the time? You’re talking ’92, ’91 — when are you talking about?
CK: I was there the night that Clinton and Milosevic signed the Peace Accords in Dayton. I was listening to it in downtown Sarajevo on a radio. So, that was 1996, I think.
TM: What brought you there?
CK: I was traveling as the tour photographer for the Industrial band, Laibach.
TM: Oh, okay; all right.
CK: Their photographer couldn’t go, and I was in Slovenia, Ljubljana, doing an art project; and they asked me if I wanted to take pictures of their trip to Sarajevo.
TM: And you said, “Why the hell not? That sounds real good!”
CK: Yeah, I said, “Sure!”
TM: That’s pretty wild.
CK: We went via armored Humvees; we drove from Split, in Croatia, and took a back road into Sarajevo, because the highways were being held by Serbs.
TM: That’s crazy! So this band, Laibach, it rings a bell with me. I’ve heard their music. Do they have some association with Boyd Rice?
CK: They record on the same Mute Records label.
TM: Okay, that’s what I’m thinking of.
CK: They know all about Boyd, because they’ve done . . .
TM: They’ve done concerts together, or something like that. Opened up for each other, or something; I don’t know.
CK: Possibly, in the old days. They’re from Slovenia.
TM: Oh, okay; interesting.
CK: Boyd is from Denver.
TM: The record label that he is on is pretty interesting.
CK: He was in London. Their record label is in London.
TM: Interesting. Fascinating stuff. You get around! I remember when we first started this project of the Disasterware, you were heading off to the Far East to get dental work done on the cheap; and I’m like, “Oh, no! Hopefully, the enemy doesn’t know that!” You do a lot of traveling. Basically you went through this whole entire life change, going from World War II, to the Greatest Generation — wonderful, they saved us from the “evil” Nazis who wouldn’t let me do my artwork, if they took over; and I would be in the prison with the Jews and the gays — to all of a sudden in the late nineties, coming to, “This is all bullshit.”
CK: Yes. I actually took myself to Romania and did some primary research in the archives there.
TM: Oh, wow; that’s interesting. Did this one little paperback make that transformation? What book made this transformation in you?
CK: I’ll tell you what, it was called Howard Blum’s Wanted: The Search for Nazis in America. That’s the paperback book that I took on the bus trip and read.
TM: When you read it, did you smell a rat?
CK: Well, no. You see, I wanted to find out more about the Iron Guard, the Romanian Legion of the Archangel Michael, because they sounded like they were really sadists.
TM: This brutal Romanian Guard intrigued you, because you’d never heard about them. They were more anti-Semitic than Hitler, and the SS, and they were the devils!
CK: Exactly! I looked into it, and the more I read about the Legion of the Archangel of Michael, the more I learned . . .
TM: What a name!
CK: They turned out to be a mystical Christian paramilitary, first a student movement, and then they were the Legion of the Archangel Michael; then they had a paramilitary unit, called the Iron Guard. What they were trying to do was prevent the takeover of Romania by Bolsheviks — Bolshevism.
TM: They were all of a famous parish. It was . . . Go ahead.
CK: They were Orthodox Christians.
TM: Right. There is a beautiful old set of cathedrals, whatever you call it, that they are affiliated with there. Anyway, basically you’re dealing with Orthodox Christians, Eastern Christianity, which is hardcore. They’re holding back Bolshevism; they’re kind of like the White Guard, around Moscow, and that type of thing. Their history is not quite as it has been presented.
CK: No, it has been skewed, because what we did after World War II, we started seeding the universities with people who were supposedly refugees from Communism. I’ll tell you what, they were all Jewish, and everything that they brought about the history of Romania had a Jewish exceptionalist slant to it.
TM: We’ve never seen such a thing. You’re kidding me! [laughter] The evil Orthodox Christians, the Iron Guard were murdering them . . .
CK: All of them are taken as being worse than cannibals. Trifa was the first poster-boy for the Office of Special Investigations in the United States, which is the Nazi-hunting unit of the Justice Department. He was a big media issue for about 27 years. He became the Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox Episcopate in America, in Grass Lake, Michigan.
He was hounded and harassed, until he finally told his congregation there that he could not afford to fight the US government any longer, and asked them for donations to pay lawyers to go up against them just about every three or four years. He finally handed in his passport and went to Lisbon, where he died shortly thereafter of heart failure. He fought for 27 years against this charge, these specious charges that were leveled against him by Romanian Communists and the Jewish community in the United States, that includes some Jewish Romanians.
TM: Yes, because he’s white; he’s Christian; he’s not one of theirs, and he’s a danger to their Romanian slant.
TM: Don’t they always try to hide that slant also, to include the gypsies and others? You know, the Iron Guard, they did something with the gypsies as well.
CK: They didn’t care about gypsies. What they were most concerned with was Communism. Judeo-Masonic Bolshevism is what they called it; so it’s Masons, Jews, and Communists.
TM: What a group!
CK: I got in touch with the Romanian Orthodox Episcopate in America, and they have some books by Trifa that you can actually buy from them; and once I got Trifa’s side of the story, I was completely turned around.
TM: What are the names of the books that you can buy from them, and how can you do that?
CK: Well, you’ve got to call them up. The first thing you’ve got to know is that when you go online, they don’t have the books that are the ones that I read. I don’t know why they’re not being advertised.
TM: What is the name of the organization that you called, again?
CK: Romanian Orthodox Episcopate in America. Romanian, ROEA, in Grass Lake, Michigan. They’ve got books there for people that are into Orthodoxy, and they’ve got two really good books that I recommend. They have marginal notes on the court case, which is the last testament of Archbishop Trifa himself. Then they have another book by this guy called Gerald Bobango, and that really is a good book. That’s about the history of the Romanian Orthodox. Let’s see, what’s it called? It’s about Trifa, I can’t remember the title — Religion and Politics in Romania? I’ll get it for you in a minute.
TM: That’s okay. They can definitely call and get the books of interest, or actually send you an e-mail.
CK: Tell anybody who wants to get further information about Romania — Religion and Politics: Bishop Valerian Trifa and His Times. This book changed my life. It’s published by Columbia University Press, and it’s out of print, but they sell it there. I got my copy for about $12, and when I tried to get it online, it was $125 because it was a textbook, and you know how expensive textbooks are.
TM: You might be able to get it used from Amazon, or somewhere, if you keep your eye on it; but, yes, that is something to think about. This book changed your view of World War II, basically.
CK: Yes, it really did; and then it got me thinking about culture, and it got me thinking about race.
TM: If they lied about this, what else have they lied about?
CK: You know what happened is that, in the book Religion and Politics: Bishop Valerian Trifa and His Times, they detail the Jewish community’s case against Trifa, and how they manipulated senators and political appointees to go after him. How [does] this Nazi-hunting thing work in the United States, and why have no Communists ever been charged with crimes against humanity?
That opened my eyes up to Jewish power in the United States. I tell you, it was the farthest thing from my brain at the time; and then all of a sudden, I got sucked down this rabbit hole.
TM: We all know about that — sucked down the rabbit hole. Then you ended up in some conversation about World War II, becoming an amateur historian on Romania, the Iron Guard, and there is still stuff going on in Romania to this day. They have a long, long tradition of having to fight Jews, the Orthodoxy there. No doubt about that. They have quite a history together, and only one side has been presented.
Basically, you become an amateur historian, and then you spout off about the Holocaust one day, or you’re speaking your mind, or you’re talking to — was it a reporter?
CK: No, the whole things happened as a result of postings on my Facebook page. A psychology professor at the local college, she didn’t like them; and she sort of ratted me out to the art critic in town.
TM: Ratted you out — I can’t imagine a psychologist at a local university ratting you out for thought crimes!
CK: Exactly! She said, “I’m surprised that the community doesn’t” . . .
TM: Murder you?
CK: Yeah! “. . . they’re not aware of your bigotry.”
TM: What kind of bigotry is that? Has she ever read any of these books from the Romanian point of view? Which is really what you’re talking about. The Romanian point of view is kind of like the German point of view of World War II. You’re looking at the other point of view and trying to figure it out.
CK: Looking at nationalism, where the patriots of the country are trying to hold on to their culture. That’s all it’s about, really. I can’t talk to anybody about Romania in World War II, because nobody knows anything about it. The Romanians I’ve gone to, they don’t want to talk about it. They’re scared to talk about it.
TM: Sure. They don’t want to go to jail, or get kicked out of art shows and fairs. There are speech laws in Romania, by the way, like there are in any of those countries.
CK: There is also peer pressure in the immigrant community to try to stay away from politics and keep your head down. When I bring it up around Romanians, they sort of clam up.
TM: Gypsies and Jews get to run everything; or it’s a holocaust, and it’s murder, and it’s “hate,” and that’s the way it goes.
CK: I needed some translating done. I went to an Orthodox church, and I asked if there were any Romanians who could help me. This guy showed up on my doorstep, through the recommendation of the priest; and I showed him what I had, and what I wanted translated, which was a bunch of eyewitness reports in Romanian. I got them from Jerusalem, at the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial Museum.
TM: Did you go to Jerusalem?
CK: Pardon me?
TM: Have you been to Jerusalem?
CK: No, I just ordered them. You can order documents from Yad Vashem. They have a scan.
TM: I was just curious; boy, that would be a travel trip.
CK: I haven’t been there. I’m not so sure I want to go!
TM: I’ll personally be staying away. [laughter] You think they don’t like Hitler teapots, you should see the reaction to Anti-Racist Hitler, but that’s another story for another day. It’s outlawed there. Anti-Racist Hitler is outlawed in Israel. There’s actually a law against it, or whatever; or, something like that.
CK: I’m sure it’s outlawed.
TM: They went nuts. Too bad they didn’t go nuts and put it in The Jerusalem Post. Charles Krafft arriving in Tel Aviv would kind of be like . . .
CK: They’d probably already know all about it when I got off the plane, the way they surveil everybody. The moment I bought my ticket there, I’d already be on their radar, probably.
TM: Oh, that would be a big media event: Charles Krafft goes to Israel. I guess you could put on a yarmulke and whine and beg for their forgiveness for ever making a statement of not agreeing with their version of Romanian World War II history. That’s what you’ve got to do. You’ve got to forever kiss their ass, and everything else; but even if you do that, they’ll still shit on you. That’s the funny things about it, so I don’t see any benefit to ever going that route; but that’s just my opinion.
CK: The questions is, who would I go to for absolution?
TM: You’ve got to go to Simon Wiesenthal, and have them destroy your art on camera, and burn your house down — it’s got to be some huge confessional-type deal — and then you’re going to have to go on speaking tours; but they might pay you, like, 30 grand a year to do that. Then, of course, you’ve got to go ask Abe Foxman for forgiveness; try to get a meeting with him. Then make it a big media event that you’re now friends with the Jews. You have to sell your soul to the devil, basically.
You have Facebook postings; local psychology professor, who watches your Facebook, polices your Facebook, copies and pastes some of the things you said. A reporter calls you up and asks you a question, right?
CK: The reporter called up and said, “I’ve received an anonymous e-mail from someone that says you’re a Holocaust denier. Do you have anything to say about that?” I said, “Well, listen, I have nothing to say about it. If it doesn’t have anything” — see, this is the art critic at that newspaper. I said, “If it doesn’t have anything to do with my art” . . .
TM: The art, or sponeware?
CK: I said, “Is there anything that’s on display somewhere that you need clarification about? Otherwise, I’m not going to answer the question, because it’s a no-win situation for me.” She let me go. I said, “The only thing about the Holocaust I’ve ever written, I’ll send you a copy of,” which was an account of my research in Romania that got published in a collection of essays about the head of the Iron Guard, Corneliu Codreanu. I sent her that. It’s about . . .
TM: Where was this published?
CK: Black Front Press, in London.
TM: Oh, interesting; I didn’t know that.
CK: I forget the guy’s name right now. [Troy Southgate — Ed.] He’s got a little organization that’s kind of Right-wing. It’s for intellectuals. I can’t remember the name of it, but he calls himself “National” something. I forget. [National Anarchist – Ed.]
TM: National Front? National Action?
CK: No. It’s not that political. It’s more like a think-tank. He puts out books. It’s called Black Front Press. He resurrects old Right-wing intellectuals, and then he puts collections of their writings together; and then sometimes he gets contemporary intellectuals to write about them. That’s what he wanted from me: “We’re going to put together a book on Codreanu; and if you’ve got something to say about it, let me know, and I’ll publish it.” I wrote a story about going to Romania to try to find some documents there. I sent that to the newspaper person and said, “This is the extent of my opinion about the Holocaust.”
TM: What you’ve written about the Holocaust, and your opinion in regards to Romania. What happened then?
CK: I didn’t hear from them. It was a moot point, and then I didn’t hear anything more. Eight months later, I’m in India, and I’m at this big festival, this big Hindu festival, and I get an e-mail from her, the critic. She says, “Listen, I’ve got some questions I want to ask you, because I am going to go ahead and write an article about you and Holocaust revisionism.”
TM: Eight months later?
CK: She said, “You can either answer my questions, or you can not answer them; but in any event, I’m writing about you.” I said, “Okay, send me the questions; I’ll answer them.” She sent me, I think, eight questions, which I answered. I thought it could be a storm in a teacup, you know; it will be a little local story, and I’ll get excoriated by the cultural Marxist weekly paper that’s going to print this story.
TM: The Seattle? Was this out of Seattle?
CK: Yes, The Seattle. I had no idea that it would become an international, viral story.
TM: They have nothing else to report about, especially if this is — the Jews love this type of stuff. “Oh, can’t buy his art,” you know.
CK: I got on NPR! You wouldn’t believe it. I got in The New Yorker, on NPR; I was in The Guardian in the UK. It’s crazy. It went all around the world. France, you know, that business on the antifa blogsite? I got caught up in this thing. VICE News called me from London, and I gave them an interview; and then they turned around and called me a crackpot.
TM: Of course. You can’t trust any of these people.
CK: No. You can’t trust them. I was saying yesterday, everyone that wanted an interview, I finally just said, “No.” I’m tired of it.
TM: Because all they’re going to do is try to make you look like an idiot, and that type of thing.
CK: There were 72 iterations of this story that a friend of mine counted, various blogsites and news sites.
TM: Using selective words, selective quoting, and selective . . .
CK: Exactly. It was all negative, except for Greg Johnson at Counter-Currents Publishing.
TM: Right, you’ve got to count on your pro-whites when you come out with the alternate . . .
CK: He and a couple of other people at that website actually defended me in print; but everywhere else that the story appeared, I was made to look like a “hater.”
TM: Yes, and evil. Well, there’s going to be a lot of people who know about you. They might not speak up for you at VICE, but they’re going to know about you, [those] who’ve met you over the years, and they’re going to be like, “This is all bullshit.”
CK: I lost some friends over this, old friends. I got some letters just curtailing their friendship. Official letters from people, written in their hand, saying we could no longer be friends.
TM: Wow! Were these people dependent on the Jews for income? What was it?
CK: No, it was “moral.” They just think I’m a moral reprobate for holding the opinions that I do.
TM: Your opinions are kind of like free-thinking. They’re not even extreme, or radical; they’re just free-thinking. You’re just looking at the truth, and trying to find it. Are these artists?
CK: One of them was my English teacher from college, who I’d been friends with for 40 years, and I got a letter from him. Another one was a guy I went to school with, high school. He lives in New York, and his wife works at The New Yorker, and I got this letter from him — and no more Christmas cards. I used to get a Christmas card from them.
TM: You find out who your friends are.
CK: It’s crazy, man!
* * *
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