Counter-Currents
W. H. Drake, “Then Rikki-Tikki was battered to and fro as a rat is shaken by a dog,” from The Jungle Book, 1895.
1,479 words
Allow me to share a deep character flaw of mine that it took nearly six decades to realize but only moments to rectify.
Despite outward appearances and an intensely unsavory public reputation, the sad truth is that I’m way too nice — all the way to the point where I’m not.
I’ve displayed the same pattern with both lovers and friends — I launch into friendships and romance being as absolutely generous as possible until suddenly I stop when I realize it’s not being reciprocated.
When Church of Satan leader Anton Lavey died, his daughter told reporters, “He said his epitaph should be. . . ‘I only regret the times that I was too nice.’”
I know the feeling.
A psychologist once told a friend of mine that his behavior indicates he’s a “bottler” — he lets people step on him to the point where the bottled-up resentment finally explodes.
That’s been my consistent modus operandi until very recently. I will let someone step on me until I lose my temper, and in the process, I wind up looking like the bad guy. In a very sad and pathetic way that’s difficult to admit, I suspect I may wind up finally assuming the bad-guy role to take the heat off of the person who’s been mistreating me for so long.
My most infamous display of this behavioral pattern was the one that landed me in prison. This is from a 1997 phone call I recorded between me and my then-mistress. Tone doesn’t translate well to text, but my tone throughout this call was one of measured exasperation, where she was lighthearted, goofy, and utterly unconcerned with my exasperation:
JIM: I was talking to [Sean] Tejaratchi earlier tonight, before I even picked you up, and he asked me why did I think people like Debbie and you were attracted to me, and I couldn’t say why. And he says he thinks it’s because these are people who feel disgusting and nobody understands them, and I accept them. It’s typical Tej.
ANNE: Do you think that’s the truth?
JIM: Yeah, I think so.
ANNE: [unintelligible] You should be a motivational speaker or something. . . . You’re a little shepherd.
JIM: Oh, Christ.
ANNE: You are! You’re a protector. You’re a shepherd of the mentally ill.
I’d dealt with this level of harassment from that mentally ill skank for a solid year until the night I finally snapped. And after I’d realized that maybe she WAS disgusting and that no one SHOULD understand or accept her, she went full borderline personality disorder and set up her humble shepherd for slaughter.
I sat stewing in prison, being virtually alone in the realization that I was not the aggressor until I abruptly became the aggressor once I grew tired of being aggressed upon. I remember thinking that I would much rather be the unflinching, bulldozing, abusive asshole I was commonly perceived to be, because there’s at least some power and control in that role.
You can buy Jim Goad’s Whiteness: The Original Sin here.
Around this time, it was not pleasant to hear a friend of mine break the truth to me about my first marriage — one where, at the end, I managed to make myself look like the absolute unmitigated monster because over the course of nearly twelve years I was too kind until I suddenly wasn’t. He said that when he first met the two of us, it was immediately apparent that I cared for her and that she didn’t care at all about me.
It’s tough to admit that you’re so lonely you’d put up with an absolute Medusa of a woman. It’s hard to concede that you may be so starved for friendship that you’ll be friends with people who wind up sucking every last drop of goodwill out of you.
But the moment you’re tough enough to admit it, the rest is easy.
I recall a girlfriend of mine from about eight years ago who, after one of our countless arguments, told me that I get into arguments with everyone.
I had no immediate comeback, but a day later, I realized I’ve had friends for a quarter-century with whom I’ve never argued. So what was the difference between them and her?
The difference was that if they were aware I’d been up all night writing and needed at least a half-hour’s worth of sleep before we drove back to Atlanta, they’d be considerate enough to stay quiet or go for a walk or anything besides sitting right next to me as I finally fell asleep, flip open their laptop, and start laughing at the top of their lungs at cat videos.
To come at the hackneyed “There are two kinds of people in the world” cliché from a completely different angle, I’ll say that if long and hard experience has taught me anything, it’s that the world can be divided into people who interpret your kindness as kindness and those who interpret it as weakness.
Perhaps I was born socially naive, or maybe no one ever told me to treat people with suspicion until they’ve earned my trust. I recall a psychologist I used to see while I was in college. When I asked him, “I’ve been coming here a few months — what’s your general take on me?” his response was, “I think no one ever really sat you down and told you how life works.”
Again and again, I am Charlie Brown and the world is Lucy with a football, snatching it away at the last minute and causing me to land on my ass.
I think part of my problem was a stubbornly naive refusal to accept how shallow and rotten and self-serving most people are. Despite so much experience suggesting that’s exactly how most people are, it still seemed too overwhelming to be real, and I preferred to pretend human nature was better than it really is.
But one reaches a point in his life — assuming he’s even capable of self-reflection — where such excuses are no longer viable, because life has a way of teaching you the lessons your parents may have failed to teach you.
It’s best to admit you’ve been a bit of an idiot than to deny it and become a full-blown, late-stage idiot.
It’s best to correct your flaws before they cripple you.
To rework an often misattributed quote, it’s better to admit you’ve been a fool than to double down and become a fool for life.
I’ve decided, heading into my seventh decade next month, to entirely purge my life of those who interpret my kindness as weakness.
Long experience has led me to believe that people who are inconsiderate are incurable. If you have to tell them to be considerate once, you’ll have to keep telling them EVERY time. I’ve never seen an exception to this rule. The very fact that you have to tell them to be considerate even once signals that you are dealing with someone who may as well be a different species than you.
I’ve learned not to erupt anymore. If someone proves unworthy of my friendship or love, I very gently cut them out of my life like a surgeon coldly excising a tumor and dispassionately casting it into a wastebasket.
Now my task is learning how to not let anyone take advantage of my kindness for so long that I’m even tempted to lose my temper.
What, you may ask, does any of this sobbing confessional have to do with white people?
It’s because I see myself as a metaphor for how white people are behaving in the face of endless disregard from nonwhites.
“The Beginnings” is the name of a 1917 poem by Rudyard Kipling that has been mangled and misrepresented online as “The Wrath of the Awakened Saxon.” But Kipling actually hated Saxons, especially after he lost his son at the hand of Germans in World War I. The poem is about how the Anglos rather than the Saxons are very slow to anger but are brutal once that anger is roused. A sample verse:
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the English began to hate.
Although there’s endless quibbling about who exactly is white and who isn’t, I think a fair definition is that anywhere outside of Europe, it refers to the people of the European diaspora who speak English in countries such as the United States, Canada, and Australia — i.e., the Anglosphere.
Will the suicidally altruistic white people of the Anglosphere finally learn to hate — the good, productive, self-serving kind of hate — when they realize how thoroughly they’ve been cowed and gaslit?
And if that day comes, what happens the day after?
40 comments
In order for that day to come, the Anglo-Saxon white diaspora will need to overcome our tendency to be selfish individualists. We’ll all have to become cells in a complex organism (of tribal unity) that are working together toward the innate prerogative of survival instead of self-actualization. And for that to happen, we will have to endure a little more palpable hardship and the systematic discrimination we have been submitted to will have to become a little more direct and persistent. In other words, it isn’t enough to watch a viral video of some white person somewhere else being harassed by blacks. The harassment will have to escalate to the point where even affluent white women in gated communities are being directly imposed upon by “diversity” in their own back yards.
It’s disconcerting that I’m becoming a hater. For me, it’s the unbelievable gall of blacks that as they commit a majority of shootings and homicide in america, and they try and gaslight us into thinking that both statistics and my ****ing own eyes are lying to me and that the big mean police are the main threat to them. The crime spike is unbelievable with the carjackings, shootouts, etc. How many blacks would have to kill each other before white liberals would admit that there’s specific pathologies in these communities? We’ll see. (Among many other cities they’re headed to a record breaking 600 dead in Philly, thanks to masking still being acceptable and a jew DA deliberately trying to stir the pot by abetting the worst black instincts) But I think they do know deep down. Last summer, it should have been clear that a lot of these white w***n simply wanted to see the world burn. Not to mention that if not for the unbelievable conformity of black people means that in the ghettos often >98% vote democratic, saddling us with this coronavirus regime that at this rate will import and legalize ten million third-world people in four years, plus another ten already here, thus ensuring perpetual power. 2020 was maybe so cursed because of some kabbalistic, numerological black magic, but it was also they year where the scales truly fell from my eyes about America and I became more hard-hearted, so maybe not all is lost. Maybe if I’m proffered a deep apology by all black people in America for being so ungrateful I’ll reconsider these attitudes.
Also, who writes these storylines in America? Blacks attacking asians now? They’re recycling plotlines from the 90s.
Well stated.
While there is much to admire about Kipling, he became almost hysterically anti-German during the war, and I suspect ‘Beginnings’ is an anti-German poem, although one we can re-purpose.
He had reason to rue such jingoism when his son was killed.
Hatered needs to be directed towards the correct target to be effective. The British are presently getting themselves riled up at the French over an absurd post-Brexit fishing dispute.
This is tragic as the indigenous French populace is much closer to casting off the globalist yolk.
He wrote the poem after his son was killed. One might say he wrote it as a result of his son being killed.
I can relate. I have similar feelings toward the French after my brother was murdered in Paris and the authorities milked our family for embalming fees, then sent his decaying, unembalmed body home in a wooden box. https://thoughtcatalog.com/jim-goad/2013/08/ode-to-bucky-goad/
What awful bastards.
My condolences to you on the loss of your brother, especially in that way. It makes my minor dislikes of the immigrants and others of the ‘bothering class’ now ruling our country through their never-ending recitals of their grievances, pale in comparison.
Will these interpersonal relationship changes you’re making have any impact on your “Iron Marshmallow” nickname, Mr. Goad?
Iron first. If they get past that, they get to see the marshmallow.
“Although there’s endless quibbling about who exactly is white and who isn’t, I think a fair definition is that anywhere outside of Europe, it refers to the people of the European diaspora who speak English in countries such as the United States, Canada, and Australia — i.e., the Anglosphere.”
Are you serious, is this a joke, or I am just not understanding your definition? Let me see if I understand you:
*if I am Swedish or Latvian and don’t speak English, I am not White?
*if my grandparents on both my mother and father side escaped Germany because they were SS, and settled in Argentina, I am not White because I am not living in the Anglosphere?
“White” has a very simple definition: a person who is 100% of European stock and can trace his DNA to the 3 European founding groups: Original hunter-gatherers, Anatolian farmers, and the Yamnaya horizon (to be picky: also a 2 to 4% Neanderthal).
And to answer your question: some Whites will never get angry or fight back because of dysgenics. Some of them are “spiteful mutants” (Woodley of Menie) without the capacity to feel rage (negative ethnocentrism). They will even turn against their own folk, White wokes. So you can’t save them all.
You are not understanding his definition.
You quoted the “anywhere outside of Europe” part but obviously didn’t understand it.
I’m so sorry Mr Goad (well, first of all, thank you for taking the trouble to reply) but I re-read the definition several times, and I still don’t get it: “anywhere outside of Europe, it refers to the people of the European diaspora who speak English”. But the Quebecois and the Afrikaners don’t speak English; they are outside Europe, yet they are White.
As I said (not that I disagree with the thrust of your paper), I prefer a definition based on DNA: Whites are the people of European stock who descent from the original settlers in that continent: original hunter-gatherers, Anatolian farmers and Yamnaya invaders. Now, your percentage of Anatolian vs. Yamnaya will determine whether phenotypically you will look more Nordic or Mediterranean, but we are still one race –just like a black and tan German Shepherd, and a sable GS are one race.
As to the main thesis of your paper, which is what matters, a book which really helped me lower my expectations regarding which Whites can be saved, was Edward Dutton’s “Race Differences in Ethnocentrism”. Whites are lower in ethnocentrism, and to make things worse, due to dysgenics, some Whites will never feel anger towards out-groups. So we have to forget about them and move on with those that are willing to follow us.
Cheers!
In Harold Covington’s brutal Northwest novels, there is a White character called Elwood Tolliver. He lives in the rabidly anti-White US, right over the border from the newly carved-out White ethnostate. Despite the miseries inflicted on him and his family by the American state, he not only refuses to migrate but remains a bitter opponent of the new country. Why? Not only because he was crippled in one leg by a bullet from the revolutionaries, but because they had crossed his moral line during the war.
To drive out the large numbers of Hispanic migrants in the Northwest, the White militants had machine-gunned a busload of them as an act of terror. It worked. After that bloody act, the mestizos fled back south.
But Elwood could never forgive the White guerillas for murdering these aliens. The fact that staying in the US condemned him, and his children, to a life of humiliation and worse, was nothing compared to his moral outrage over the murder of a group of strangers who, by the way, would never even consider taking the same stance were it his race that was killed.
This is the moralistic insanity, a unique diseas of soul, that grips far too many of our embattled people. There are far too many Elwood Tollivers.
Dr ExCathedra: So much of Covington’s novels was prescient and remains valid today. Putting the welfare of strangers above one’s own family is anathema to Christianity yet celebrated as a virtue by today’s pallid churchians. They seek out the most genetically and geographically distant alien to place at the head of their pantheon of moral righteousness. It’s Satanic.
Most of the Whites in the U.S. have been infected with a type of ‘Missionary Sob-Story Christianity’ which turns them into die-hard do-gooders for ‘the poor starving children’ in the tribes of useless eaters scattered across the planet in droves. They forget their own in an insane rush to ‘help others’. This began in Brazil about 30 years ago by a priest who wrote a book, but I can’t remember the name — I’ll look for it. That single book, and the movement it inspired in Christians, Catholic and Protestant, has led to all this revolutionary Marxist takeover of Christianity, which is bedeviling Christians and their missionaries world wide. If we cannot wake them up to this swindle, we might as well write them off.
I see your point about those in the diaspora who don’t speak English.
Thanks!
My life in a nutshell.
So sorry you had to spend so long being used before you put an end to it, Mr. Goad. But many of us have been similarly afflicted, to one degree or another. I came to the realization most people were shallow, rotten, and self-serving decades ago, and yet – somehow – I also became a Christian. Because I found God not to be shallow and rotten and self serving. I still believe in God and his mercy, although I know I don’t deserve it and I certainly cannot comprehend how he can tolerate any of us. Does this qualify as cognitive dissonance? I don’t think so. I’m keenly aware of my kids’ limitations, yet I still love them. I just accept there’s a definite distinction between liking or loving anyone for any reason, and then genuinely trusting them. That’s my failsafe line. The number of people I genuinely trust implicitly is extremely, extremely small. And yet almost all that’s good in my life is from those very few trustworthy people.
That’s what ails White people – a surfeit of trust. A totally unverifiable belief in the innate goodness of people. Making a virtue of ‘nice’ when its actual meaning is actually negative. Women are at the root of a lot of this, but then one looks at who has weaponized women. As much as I hate to be a broken record, when I look at things as honestly as I can, it always, somehow, seems to go back to the same select group of people. Not solely them, but they’re always there at the beginning. Like the snake in the garden.
I believe hatred of evil is a Christian virtue. I hope and pray White people learn to hate while there remains enough of them to ensure racial survival.
Really enjoyed this article as I could very much relate. I’ve had spells of loneliness where I made friends with people who just wanted to use me and take advantage of my niceness. You know that’s the case but you want the human interaction. My first love, more like first fling was also like that. She’d kick me to the curb when someone else better came along then come crying back when she needed me. Even when we became just friends it was constant manipulation and being taken advantage of. Cutting this person out of my life was the best thing I could have done.
It gets difficult though to cut people out of your life when its family that is the one that sees your niceness as a weakness, especially your in-laws. My in-laws screwed me out of money they said they would pay for my and my wife’s wedding. My wife and I wanted something small but my mother-in-law had delusions of grandeur and was hellbent on a big wedding and said they had money saved up for a wedding. Being the nice guy, I obliged to do the big wedding and of course pay my fair share since I’m well off and my wife’s family is working class. When I confront them after the wedding that I have some invoices they say they actually don’t have the money, the money was supposed to come from my father-in-law’s brother who owed him money… for over a decade, and what do you know, he doesn’t have it. I was obviously livid. My mother-in-law cynically says, “it’s okay, money comes, money goes.” She says she’ll pay me back one of these days. My brother-in-law is even more cynical, “it’s your fault, you should have asked to see the money first.” I had my eruption at a family get together a couple days after the wedding because it was the only thing I could do, I obviously can’t cut these people out of my life like a tumor. I was more pissed off about the lying and manipulation than the money. I would have been happy paying for the whole wedding if they just said they couldn’t afford it and would appreciate it if I could pay for a big wedding. My wife’s family also did virtually nothing when it came to organizing and planning the wedding despite my wife and I having been both working and in school at the time.
What’s on the nose was that a couple months after the wedding my in-laws buy a new car. I call them out on this and my sister-in-law plays the victimhood card “you’re rich, our family is poor, have you no shame?” It’s even more on the nose now that she’s getting married and they bought a new car and my sister-in-law gets the old car; all the while having a big wedding to pay for. So I’m again in the dilemma of being nice and just letting it go and moving on or confronting them on this. This is all the more so exacerbated when I didn’t have cash on me and my mother-in-law bought snacks on a road trip and when I go to pay her back she’s offended about it and tells me I’m not being nice… projection much? I love my wife but I have a profound loathing for my in-laws.
Josephus Cato – TMI, but given the character flaws your in-laws have revealed, how on earth do you have trust and faith in your wife as the mother of future children? Hope she’s excised her family from her life and put you first as she ought.
It’s also insulting for my wife what happened. I was initially upset at her about what happened but then realized I couldn’t blame her for her parent’s actions and that she is also a victim.
That’s the thing, it’s hard to excise family from your life. I’m forced in this situation to be the nice guy for the sake of my wife and tranquility of my family. Relating to Goad’s article, Jared Taylor has a great video on how critical race theory being introduced in elementary schools is pushing even liberal whites over the edge.
If you have a lot of money donate to the website! Should have married her cheaply in Vegas.
I read this a couple of hours ago and felt compelled to respond. But there was so much I wanted to say that I decided to try to compose my thoughts first. After a while I chose to simply say that I’m so disgusted with most of the people that I’ve encountered in my 6+ decades that I refuse to involve myself with people enough to know what category they fall into. To quote Bukowski, “I don’t hate people. I just feel better when they aren’t around”.
As to how such an attitude reflects on the whole Caucasian experience in America these days, the various Wogs contaminating my country aren’t exempt from my current perspective. In fact, as much as possible, I’ve chosen to isolate myself in an area that’s away from all places where they may be encountered.
Currently, there’s four people on Earth that I have regular contact with. All are family and three of them are on probation.
I could go on about how the lack of a defined culture in America has the destruction of the country baked in its cake. But that would result in an essay that’s more than I care to type.
I’m not exactly like you, Mr. Goad. But we share some observations about people that appear to be fairly rare. It gives me a small measure of satisfaction to know that I’m not unique in my life’s experiences and the conclusions that I’ve drawn from them.
The sentiment behind “The Beginnings” seems like nonsense. History shows the Saxon always turns his hate on himself and those most similar to him. I think the British mentality is not necessarily to win, but to keep the stiff upper lip in defeat.
I don’t know what happens “the day after” but I am very much looking forward to finding out.
we may see it yet. nods.
A lot of self hating pandering ass kissing white liberals are race conscious on this level: they know they are white and their heart starts to beat every time the blacks act up. So they do and say whatever they can, include point the finger at other whites to save themselves or at least feel a little security at that moment. White liberals are up the ass of white society more than ever because of this: non-whites are surrounding them more and more every day and they are like chickens with their heads cut off. Plucking on other whites so as to not falling underneath the anti-white pecking order themselves.
But white liberals despite their bullshit are not willing to give up a single thing they have. That why they push for others to be fired, lose their wealth or pay up. My Bernie loving who goes off on the 1% and rich assholes (who has a shitload of inherited wealth from marriage) must of spent thousands stockpiling crap during the early days of the pandemic like most lemmings did. She very casually with a laugh told me she told her son not to tell any of his (mostly non-white) friends they had any extra stuff. That is the white liberal in a nutshell. They are the person who’ll in the end try to throw everyone off a sinking ship to keep another breath of air in their lungs.
It’s once a person has NOTHING to lose that they start to fight back. Look at prison for example. Strip any white liberal of anything and throw him on the same cell block as those precious blacks they feel such sympathy for and they’ll learn eventually that you either fight or die.
Sure, we will learn to hate, of course. And the sooner the better.
But will we hate the group that is behind all destruction of our societies? And believe me, it is not blacks, as you must know by now. The real Master eagerly wants us to engage in an endless war with low IQ animals as they will support “those poor blacks” until the bitter end anyway. Well, as long as it suits their plans, as they have no loyalty towards anybody else but themselves and they change their colour overnight if it helps them. They are masters of Deception. That is their morale, Deception.
Ok, I guess we are at a point, where it simply must go this way. One has to start somewhere. But still, I would love to see us engaging in a battle against The Enemy, not just the low IQ footsoldiers of The Enemy. They, The Real Enemy, have been begging for it for a long time, and so help me God, let’s fight.
I can relate. %90 of people I’ve known think it’s perfectly alright to wake up people who sleep in the day and work all night. You tell them that it’s unacceptable. You tell them that they wouldn’t want to get woken up at 2 am every other night when they had work in the morning and they never get it. I repeat, they never get it. You don’t argue, you don’t negotiate, you simply tell them goodbye & cut ties.
I was watching a movie with my wife the other night. The movie we were watching was on a free tv application and had plenty of commercials, which I’m unaccustomed to seeing. They kept playing these vaccine commercials that played upon empathy. I got the jab because I love my mom, best friend, whomever type of thing. After I noticed this as the same method they use to push anti-whiteism I mentioned it to my wife. She didn’t even have to think about it for more than a second before agreeing with me.
It seems to be rare for an individual to go from inconsiderate to considerate. It might be feasible even socialized people can go through life without meeting an example, or at least still hang with them as/after their “conversion”. But, once in a blue moon, it appears to happen, in my experience.
However, alluding to what Goad once wrote, this is a rare occurence even among individuals. Groups of individuals function differently. It never happens that a whole people will realize the error in their ways and start treating another people more respectably. American blacks will never decide, after collective thoughtful reflection (an oxymoron), to start treating white Americans with more consideration (why would they?). For that matter, the whites who genuflect to the blacks will never, collectively, come to reason that this might not be in their best interests. Those are absolutely hopeless causes.
i don’t pretend to know your upbringing… but being reared in a high trust society, had its downsides; my childhood default was naive trust, and Southern manners as a lady. as an only child, i was naturally around more adults, and had little to no idea how cruel other children could be. it took many years to move that innate default to verify, then possibly trust. childhood was kind of rocky, kid loyalties swing like a metronome, especially girls………but my abilities to interact w/adults has served me well the rest of my life, especially men, i had a great Daddy, who taught me much. i mentally matured early, resulting in sidestepping many pre/teen missteps, such as passed out drunk anywhere, don’t date players, etc. a later reassessment came in my mid-twenties; it was life altering. a friend i considered someone who had my 6 in a street fight or attack (which i could count on one hand) stunned me into her being my real last… ‘best friend’. a discussion about a case in NC wherein a young woman was snatched off the sidewalk while her bestie watched in horror, brought that change. we yapped on it, and i stated that, no way in hell would i let someone grab her off the sidewalk and kill her at some secondary crime scene.. it would be then/there to the death. i couldn’t fathom living w/myself if i’d let him take her w/o a fight. after a moment of silence.. she said…… ‘i’d have to let him take you.’…………….. the only person i’ve trusted w/my life and my 6 since then.. my husband.
You know what I do not like you personally but I am intrigued- how much of your fairness would you attribute to you ethnicity (you claim to be Irish) and how much to your catholic upbringing. It seems a general fault of Whites to engage in mistaken reciprocal relationships with non-whites. Just go back to the civil war.
Your inclusion of ‘when the saxons began to hate’ was insightful (although saxons clearly meant Germanic europeans) but I notice it could apply to any area outside the hajnal line.
Your first wife was Jewish. In the best possible faith do you think this had anything to do with it?
Here’s my DNA breakdown: https://jimgoad.net/ancestry.jpg
Many of the most egregious, unfair assholes I’ve known in my life have been Irish Catholics. In my long experience, I don’t think ethnicity has a single thing to do with whether or not someone is a lying or unfair asshole. I’ve known people from the same families with the exact same upbringing whose personalities are wildly different. I’ve learned to be most suspicious of people who hide behind the idea that they represent or believe in some ultimate good, though.
From experience, truly ethical people never need to announce it to the whole world. I think even Jesus would have agreed with me on that.
I’ve been thinking about how to explain the anti-white situation to my children when they are old enough to learn about it. I think I may use a team vs. team metaphor, since they do/will play sports. Our team keeps helping the other side win rather than playing to win. When are we going to get tired of loosing? Of course, it’s not simple to win against what we are up against. We must dedicate a number of lifetimes to getting control again and keeping it. The team consists of ourselves presently, as well as those who came before and those who will come after.
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