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After Martin Bell’s low-budget but powerful film Brotherhood of Murder (1999), a new retelling of the old story of Robert J. Mathews (Bob) and his infamous group The Silent Brotherhood hit the cinemas. It is difficult to evaluate such a film for several reasons. This type of film is always made with the aim of discrediting white nationalism (WN) and portraying it as a gang of terrorists and violent criminals. However, sometimes this type of film can portray these violent individuals as attractive and provide the mainstream audience with some good WN arguments, as was the case with the well-made American History X. We cannot expect any mainstream film to directly quote William Luther Pierce: Who Rules America? That would be extremely naïve.
It is particularly evident in this type of film whether someone from the nationalist movement collaborated on its creation. This is most noticeable in small allusions and artefacts and things that surround the main character. Such films are usually of higher quality and are more appreciated by viewers. I would say that someone from the WN movement collaborated on this film, because there are many specific references to it (The Turner Diaries, the speech A Call to Arms and Declaration of War, references to Richard Girnt Butler and his Christian Identity church, William Luther Pierce, Whidbey Island where Matthews burned to death, The Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds). Without someone from the movement, it would just be a film about rednecks who drink beer, murder Jews, and rob cars and banks.
There are quite a few violent films about WN that contain so-called “being to die.” The main character lives only to be killed at the end. Throughout the film, the white protagonist commits acts of violence, which I personally perceive as targeted programming for WN. A dead WN is a good WN for the system. Other types of films about WN are practically non-existent. Currently, there are almost no films from WN for normal white people. There is a lot of potential in this industry. For example, a romantic drama set in The Active Clubs, a film about an aging white nationalist professor who has had to hide his beliefs his entire life, a film about two teachers at a rural elementary school, one of whom is a naïve hippie and normie and the other a hard-core white nationalist, but both care about the small school that the state would like to close down, etc. To be honest, mainstream films about white nationalist terrorism and skinheads are already quite boring.
For the reasons mentioned above, I will therefore rate and describe The Order in the category of films about WN that are intended to discourage viewers from WN.
Although the film is manipulative (I will discuss this later), it is very well crafted, with long shots of the landscape, honest police work, and great background music. The 1980s are beautifully captured through filters and period artefacts. We see wild mountain scenery and a gang of radicalized terrorists who commit racially motivated attacks and bank robberies in the name of white power. The atmosphere reminds me of my favorite post-white, post-industrial US series True Detective (2014) or the slightly better-known films like Sicario (2015), Hell or High Water (2016), and Wind River (2017).
The entire plot of the film takes place in a very short period of time between September 1983 and December 1984. The goal of the terrorist organization Silent Brotherhood was a white revolution, which would then declare war on the US federal government and, after overthrowing the US government, begin building a state for whites only. In order to obtain as many weapons as possible and recruit hordes of mostly unemployed, angry farmers and truck drivers, the organization focused its activities on carefully planned armed robberies of porn shops, bank branches, and armored cars. The ideological catalyst for the terrorists was the novel The Turner Diaries (1978), in which author Andrew MacDonald (pseudonym William Luther Pierce) described the future direction of the US in the form of a fictional story. The entire story of the film is then based on a loose interpretation of the book The Silent Brotherhood (1990) by Kevin Flynn and Gary Gerhardt.
Aging FBI detective Terry Husk (Jude Law) investigates cases involving the Italian-American mafia, the KKK, and Christian Identity, but due to health problems (stress, drinking, bad family relationships), he is transferred to Idaho to rest. The local sheriff (Philip Granger) tells him that it’s just peace and quiet here, with trivial investigations such as bike thefts and the occasional person getting lost in the woods. However, the sheriff’s deputy Jamie (Tye Sheridan) tells the detective that something is going on and shows him a counterfeit bill at his home. The detective, however, comes across white power posters in a local bar, puts two and two together, and starts investigating local right-wing groups, mainly around the Christian Identity church priest Richard Butler (Victor Slezak). A more radical group led by Robert J. Mathews (Nicholas Hoult) has recently split from the Christian Identity church and is calling for an immediate white revolution. Detective Terry Husk sacrifices everything for his police work. Robert sacrifices everything for his beliefs. Both are die-hard idealists. In the film, they meet at key moments between life and death and stare each other straight in the eye. These are the most powerful moments in the entire film. Both are hunters. And a hunter must hunt!
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First, the armed group Silent Brotherhood kills their friend, Walter West, an unreliable drunkard and loudmouth. Then the viewer sees a planned but uncertain bank robbery, during which the revolutionaries shout at each other like little boys and then red dye explodes in their car, coloring the money red. After a relatively successful operation, Bob finds a professional instructor who agrees to give his militia military training in exchange for money. But the police are not sitting idle either and begin interrogating Walter West’s girlfriend. After a good cop/bad cop interrogation, the police find West’s body. At this point, they already know who the suspects are, but they are not yet searching for them. After a few meetings, the Silent Brotherhood successfully assassinates Jewish radio host Alan Berg and is involved in a shootout with the police while robbing a bank armored car. This is followed by several powerful scenes in nature, but I won’t describe what they are about. Potential viewers will have to discover that for themselves.
After the second car is attacked, the police trace Bob thanks to a gun registered in his name and they are almost certain of success. They arrest one man of The Silent Brotherhood, who gradually leads them to the rest of the group. A wild shootout follows in a hotel, from which only Bob escapes. Everything leads up to the grand finale, which I find weak compared to the book The Silent Brotherhood. In the film, the leader of the organization, Robert Jay Mathews, is tracked down after several weeks and surrounded in a barricaded house on Whidbey Island. Since he refuses to surrender, the SWAT team takes drastic action and, after a shootout, sets fire to the house with the heavily armed Mathews inside. There, his life comes to an end, and so does the activity of his group.
Shortcomings of the Film
Alan Berg is portrayed in the film as an intelligent and decent Jew who preaches love and tolerance. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he was an anti-white racist, a pervert, and a foul-mouthed man. Such a person cannot live in a future white ethnostate, nor should he be allowed to appear in the media in a decent society. Alan Berg was truly a repulsive creature. I recommend finding his actual broadcasts and comparing what he said with what he says in the film. In this regard, the film is highly manipulative.
The film must, of course, feature a mandatory inclusive, strong, independent woman of color. This inclusive, incompetent police officer is also, perhaps, Terry Huska’s former multicultural love. Her incompetence as a police officer and her failure to track down the perpetrators are illustrated by the fact that the FBI has the names and addresses of some of the perpetrators but is not conducting any investigation in that direction.
- A diverse police officer shouts at Terry Husk, who is the only FBI agent to realize that the bombing of a porn theater was just a distraction manoeuvre and that the main goal was to rob an armored car full of money.
- The FBI secures one of the perpetrators’ weapons, but they are unable to identify the perpetrator within 24 hours, even though the store where the weapon was sold is a two-hour drive away and there is certainly a local police station in the town.
- The FBI goes on a trip to the farm of one of the suspects, and as luck would have it, he’s not home because he’s robbing three million dollars just around the corner.
- One of the most shocking things I’d highlight is the stupid scene where a diverse policewoman goes berserk after seeing a swastika on a bulletin board and starts screaming “Nazi!”She kneels down in front of an innocent white woman in her kitchen, right in front of her child. In the next scene, she interrogates her in the same place, looking at her with sympathy and understanding and reassuring her. The woman then reveals the main character’s last hiding place without hesitation. The only thing missing here is relaxing music and incense sticks.
The Order contains a lot of nonsense. What struck me most was that the attack on the Capitol was inspired by The Turner Diaries. That’s complete nonsense. You could just as well say that Donald Trump’s election was inspired by The Turner Diaries. In fact, anything in the world that mainstream news and especially its owners don’t like is certainly inspired by The Turner Diaries. The nonsense about the attack on the Capitol was included in the film to make it relevant to the present day and to slander people who are dissatisfied with progressive multicultural policies.
I was amused that when police officers first visited Richard Butler of Christian Identity, they saw a copy of The Turner Diaries on his desk. When they asked him what it was, he replied, “It’s just a book for children.” From then on, the book appeared throughout the whole film. I almost suspect that this was an undisclosed product placement by the National Alliance for the new edition of the book. In the film, all the old-timers read this book. If this was really true, it was undoubtedly William Luther Pierce’s most ingenious marketing strategy, because The Turner Diaries was not officially distributed and could not be bought in bookstores.
The more Nazi swastikas – the more white nationalist. WN appear in the film exclusively with Third Reich flags, both on pastor Butler’s property and in the hidden lair of the Silent Brotherhood in Metaline Falls, as well as at Bob’s famous Call to Arms meeting. This aesthetic is intended to program potential WN to present themselves in this way to the white public, so that normal people will then consider WN to be nothing more than deformed idiots, because there really are quite a few idiots among Hollywood Nazis. Below we see a photo from a real National Alliance meeting and a photo from a National Alliance film meeting.
The ending of the movie was very unrealistic and sloppy. The entire SWAT team stormed into the house at once and one shooter shot them all out like rabbits. In reality, several members of the Order fled with Mathews to Whidbey Island in Puget Sound, where they drafted a declaration of war against the United States government. The FBI finally tracked them down on the island in December 1984, but most of them managed to escape. Several remained with Mathews and eventually surrendered to the FBI. Mathews himself refused to surrender and held the agents at bay for more than 30 hours with a submachine gun. The FBI was at a loss in this stalemate, so they fired several flares into the house and set it on fire, and Bob subsequently died in the flames.
Effective White Nationalism
Many people ask themselves why Bob Matthews failed in his mission. What did he do wrong when he gathered a group of highly idealistic WN who had never committed any crimes but were willing to go underground in the name of preserving the white race in the US? The answer is simple. Basically, it was all wrong. White terrorism does not lead to the creation of a white ethnostate. Just as the terrorist acts of individuals such as Anders Behring Breivik, Brenton Tarrant, Timothy James McVeigh, etc., did not lead to the creation of a white ethnostate. Various small armed groups in other geographical and geopolitical conditions, such as Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari in Italy and the RAF in Germany, also failed.
Another reason is the complacent, degenerate, lazy, and television-addicted population of the United States. You cannot expect people who go to work and watch endless soap operas such as Married with Children, The Nanny, Friends, and Beverly Hills 90210 to rise up together in a holy war and stand up for the truth. These people don’t care about the truth and don’t think that the truth is better than a lie. They have completely abandoned the truth, and are happy as long as the economy is functioning. Unfortunately, neither Bob nor anyone else in the US was able to influence this. It is difficult to change a person’s direction with a single speech when that person is injected daily with mainstream media poison in the form of multiracialism, LGBT, Zionism, and the idea that their only goal is political correctness and minimizing suffering.
Bob was a fanatical idealist in the wrong place at the wrong time. If he had been born earlier in England, he could have been Robin Hood; if in Slovakia in the 18th century, he could have been Juraj Janošik; in Carpathian Ruthenia, he could have been Nikola Šuhaj Robber or any other bandit legend. But he was born in the US in 1952, stood up for his people and against Jewish power, and so he is a white supremacist, racist, and neo-Nazi. In the future, I believe Bob will achieve the status of a folk legend.
84 comments
The novel The Turner Diaries appears in this movie six separate times, one at a murder scene. The scene where Richard Butler’s speech is interrupted by Matthews is a farrago of propaganda. Behind the podium on the walls are the words National Alliance and Swastikas. But Butler never spoke at an NA meeting and Pierce never unfurled swastikas. But to give them credit the makers of the movie did their home work. In the credits the man who introduces Butler speech is labeled “Nazi speaker.” But anyone who has heard Pierce’s voice knows they went to great lengths to have that “Nazi speaker” imitate it.
There are plenty of films with White Nationalist villains, but I’m not aware of any Hollywood production about the Weather Underground or the San Francisco “Zebra Murders.”
You are absolutely right. Our enemies make films very selectively. There are only two good books on these two topics: Ron Jacobs: Weather Underground and Clark Howard: Zebra. You can write a review of these books for CC if you like.
Dave Chambers: June 13, 2025 There are plenty of films with White Nationalist villains, but I’m not aware of any Hollywood production about… the San Francisco “Zebra Murders.”
What a wonderful movie Zebra will make for long-suffering White moviegoers, if not brought to the screen by White-hating, lying Jews.
National Alliance used to sell Clark’s book and Dr. Pierce wrote this description of the Black on White killings 26 years ago, available here: “Knowledge and Discipline” at nationalvanguard.org
…The Jewish media bosses hoped that you wouldn’t pay any attention to the news about the murder of Attilio Cicala, but I’m going to tell you about it now, because I think it’s something you ought to know.
The story goes back 25 years to a horrendous series of racial murders in California, many of them in the San Francisco area. Over a period of six months in 1973 and 1974 members of an offshoot of the Black Muslims called “Death Angels” murdered several hundred White men, women, and children. The exact number will never be known, because many of the victims were so-called “street people”: runaway teenaged girls on drugs, hippies, and the like — people who weren’t missed. There were many of these pitiful lost souls on the streets of San Francisco in the 1960s and 1970s. Their corpses often were hacked up and dumped in the ocean or buried. But the San Francisco police who tracked the Death Angels counted 15 very tangible victims from all walks of life, not just street people: 15 murdered White people, and eight others who were seriously injured during attempts to murder them. While they were looking for the killers the police referred to the series of murders as the “Zebra” killings: all Black on White.
Eventually the Death Angels were broken up when San Francisco police arrested eight of them. Four of them were put on trial, and after the longest trial in California history — a year and six days — were convicted on all counts. The transcript for the trial filled nearly 14 thousand pages and was bound in 141 volumes.
You say you never heard of any of this? Could that be because the Jewish media bosses — the ones who have been making such a circus of Benjamin Smith’s killing of one Black and one Korean — didn’t want you to hear about it? Could it be that the news of the Zebra murders didn’t fit the pattern of White aggressors and non-White victims that the media bosses wanted to imprint on the consciousness of the White public?
During the trial of the four Death Angels between March 3, 1975, and March 9, 1976, a great deal of interesting information came out that the White public should have been told about. One of the Death Angels who had been involved in many of the murders, Anthony Harris, obtained immunity from prosecution by testifying against the other Death Angels. Harris was on the witness stand for 12 days, and the chilling details of his testimony make very interesting reading. He told the court that the Nation of Islam — the so-called “Black Muslims” — taught that the murder of a White person — a “blue-eyed devil” — was pleasing to Allah. There was an elite organization in the Nation of Islam whose members had especially pleased Allah. That was the Death Angels. To become a Death Angel one had to murder nine White men or five White women or four White children. In 1974 the San Francisco chapter of the Death Angels had fifteen accredited members.
Harris related the horrifying details of some of the murders. There were the young White couple, Richard and Quita Hague, who were grabbed off a San Francisco street at gunpoint, taken to a rail yard, and butchered with a machete. Richard, a mining engineer, was 30 years old. His wife Quita, a reporter, was 28. They were out for an after-dinner stroll when three Black Muslims forced them into a van. Two of the Muslims were in the process of raping Quita when the third grabbed her by the hair, dragged her over to the railroad tracks, and slashed her throat.
Some of the White victims were taken to a loft used by the Death Angels, where they were tied to chairs and tortured to death. Harris testified that he was given the butchered remnants of one of these kidnapped torture victims, all trussed up in a plastic sheet like a turkey, and told to drive the package to a bluff overlooking San Francisco Bay and throw it into the water. Other victims, more fortunate, were simply gunned down on the street. And the killing wasn’t confined to San Francisco or even to California. Other groups of Death Angels murdered Whites in other states: in New York, in Georgia, in Florida. The word spread among Black Muslims everywhere. The only people who didn’t hear about what was happening were ordinary White citizens, like Richard and Quita Hague. They didn’t hear about it because the Jewish media bosses didn’t want the White population to become alarmed. They didn’t want Whites to take measures to protect themselves. They didn’t want Whites to stop feeling guilty about how badly they had treated minorities…
Additional Reading: Clark Howard, Zebra (Richard Marek Publishers, New York, 1979)
Read more of the horrid details of these murders at the link.
There have been other, less well publicized black on white death cults over the years, such as Yahweh bin Yahweh in south Florida back in the early nineties. I recall there having been a lot of talk about it at the time, but since then they have been completely memory holed, even at web sites like these. It would be interesting to have an article documenting all of them. The beltway snipers I think would fall into this category. It’s an interesting phenomenon—I can’t think of any parallel white on black case. I mean there have been a few sporadic cases, like say Dylan roof, but no syndicates that committed multiple murders.
Actually it may be better not to have a movie about the zebra killings because it could well spawn imitators.
DarkPlato: June 16, 2025 There have been other, less well publicized black on white death cults over the years, such as Yahweh bin Yahweh in south Florida back in the early nineties. I recall there having been a lot of talk about it at the time, but since then they have been completely memory holed, even at web sites like these…
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Thanks, DP. Stories like this one are not memory holed as long as we can put ‘yahweh bin yahweh’ in the search block at NV like I just did. I remember Dr. Pierce telling us about these crazy niggers 24 years ago, here: “The Saga of Yahweh ben Yahweh” at nationalvanguard.org
AN Associated Press news story recently caught my attention. The story was about the release from prison this week of a Black
religious leader, who calls himself Yahweh ben Yahweh. His name actually is Hulon Mitchell. He’s a former Black Muslim, and, in fact, he ran a Black Muslim mosque in Atlanta for a while in the early 1970s, until he was accused of sexual improprieties with underaged Muslim girls and dipping into the collection plate. He dropped out of the Nation of Islam, where he was known as Hulon X, and in 1978 founded his own church, the so-called Nation of Yahweh, with a religion based on Judaism. He calls his followers “Black Hebrew Israelites” and tells them that they, rather than the Jews, are the “chosen people” ordained by God to rule the world, as described in the Old Testament. He took for himself the name Yahweh ben Yahweh — that’s Hebrew for “God, the son of God.”
So why should we be interested in yet another megalomaniac religious cult based on Judaism? Well, the thing of interest to us about the Nation of Yahweh is the initiation requirement Hulon Mitchell established for the elite, inner circle of his church, the so-called “Brotherhood.” The requirement was the murder of a White person, and the bringing to Mitchell of some evidence of the murder, such as an ear or even the head of the victim. In fact, Mitchell preached to his whole congregation that the killing of White people — of “blue-eyed devils” — is pleasing to Yahweh.
By the time the police finally wound up Mitchell’s race-murder cult in November 1990 and packed Mitchell off to prison, his followers had butchered and mutilated at least 23 men, women, and children, 14 of them in Miami alone…
Would that not make a great movie if written, produced, directed, cast, promoted, etc. by White loyalists — actually based on a true story, like the Hollywood (((moguls))) <cough!> have falsely claimed The Order is based?
Wow! I had no idea so many were killed by YBY! That’s on par with zebra, but you never hear about it, while we are reminded of the Manson family constantly. I also seem to recall another called the cherry hill gang or something.
“In reality, he was an anti-white racist, a pervert, and a foul-mouthed man.”
This statement fits most Jews. 🙃
This movie is over the top regime propaganda—but as is often the case in these paint by numbers histories subtle and inadvertent messages get sent.
To wit: the protagonist is named Husk, and he is depicted as a husk of man. He is over the hill, tired, and says he wants to slow down; he is lonely, has lost his wife and daughter, his ex-wife even changes her number so he can’t reach her; he has a scar on his chest which in an interview Jude Law said means he has a stent; and he is shown constantly smoking cigarettes; when he has to chase Matthews he gets winded and doubles over with his hands on his knees. All in all, it shows him as well past his prime (like the Regime?)
Matthews on the other hand has two women and one is pregnant; his community is always shown in sunlight with many children and full of life and vibrant. The hijacking of the Brinks truck shows them to be daring and bold and able to perform thrilling feats. And of course they are men of honor.
The crucial scene is when Husk is hunting but is unable to find prey. He then approaches Matthews in his truck and says he had no luck. Matthew says “maybe they don’t like the smoke” and smiles wryly and sarcastically mimics smoking with his fingers and mouth. Showing Husk does not fit in with nature; but Matthews and his men do.
None of this of course is intentional but can be seen and heard by those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
You have very good observations. Thanks for your intelligent comment. I also counted six scenes with Turner’s diaries. The film really does seem like product placement for the new edition.
Thank You Ondrej. As I’m sure you are aware the movie deviates from history at countless points. For instance at the hotel shootout Bob Matthews shot and injured one man, but in the movie he shoots and kills a man. This gives them their big scene where Husk has to break the news of the death to the man’s wife.
Yes, I know, I read the book The Silent Brotherhood by Kevin Flynn. If I were to analyze everything that was different in the movie and in reality, it wouldn’t be a review, it would be a thesis.
No doubt.
The funniest scene in the movie is when Matthews drives into the compound and sees his men have burned a cross. He tells them to put it out and says this isn’t a pageant. Then he goes into their office and as he’s standing in front of a massive Swastika hung on the wall says to them all: we don’t want any attention.
Yes, the film also offers a few comical scenes. Did this film completely captivate you? How many times have you seen the film that you know even the smallest details? Do you think the film is well made?
Ondrej: Blatant propaganda aside yes, I think the film was incredibly well made and it did captivate me. I have watched it three times, as I wrote an article about it for the NA Website. In particular I thought Nicholas Hoult was riveting and terribly charismatic. The scene in Ukiah where they hijack the Brinks truck was totally exhilarating, as was the shot of the scenery when they drive in to meet Richard Butler. I was surprised that the movie did not get Oscar attention, as it would have been a way for them to increase its propaganda value.
Is your review available online? I would like to read it.
Ondrej: the review is at whitebiocentrism.com. Go to my section (Douglas Mercer) and the review is on the first page. It’s called The Order: Movie Review.
Thanks for the link, I read your review and a few other articles. You’re a good writer and a poetic soul.
Thank You Ondrej
A movie with a similar theme came out in 1988 called “Betrayed” starring Tom Berenger and Debra Winger. The movie is fictional. The Wikipedia article about it says that it is roughly based on Bob Mathews and The Order. Tom Berenger’s character is a Vietnam Veteran and a farmer who belongs to a group who kill blacks for sport and plot assassinations of non-whites and Jews. Debra Winger’s character is an FBI agent who infiltrates the group posing as a farm hand and falls in love with Tom Berenger’s character, even after learning his views. The movie appears to show Tom Berenger’s character as somewhat more complex as opposed to a simple caricature of a neo-nazi. Like most movies, it has flaws and parts of it are unrealistic. An in-depth review of it would make a good Counter-Currents article.
Thanks for reminding me. I don’t have any plans to write a detailed review on a similar topic at the moment. But I am preparing a translation of a literary series about similar films. It also mentions some very little-known films. So yes, you will be able to read about Bethrayed on CC.
You are welcome.
Bigfoot: June 14, 2025 A movie with a similar theme came out in 1988 called “Betrayed” starring Tom Berenger and [Jewish actress] Debra Winger. The movie is fictional. The Wikipedia article about it says that it is roughly based on Bob Mathews and The Order. Tom Berenger’s character is a Vietnam Veteran and a farmer who belongs to a group who kill blacks for sport and plot assassinations of non-whites and Jews. Debra Winger’s character is an FBI agent who infiltrates the group posing as a farm hand and falls in love with Tom Berenger’s character, even after learning his views. The movie appears to show Tom Berenger’s character as somewhat more complex as opposed to a simple caricature of a neo-nazi. Like most movies, it has flaws and parts of it are unrealistic. An in-depth review of it would make a good Counter-Currents article.
An in-depth review is not necessary, Bigfoot, but thanks for the reminder. Like The Order, that claims to be based on truth, Betrayed is just more Hollywood anti-White propaganda. I viewed the fictional “spy thriller” when it was released and, knowing what I knew at the time about Mathews and the Order, could see it was just more Jewish bullshit. I could never look at actor Berenger the same after seeing his fictional portrayal of Mathews in Betrayal. WikiJews say:
Betrayed is a 1988 American spy thriller film directed by Costa-Gavras, written by Joe Eszterhas, and starring [Jewish actress] Debra Winger and Tom Berenger. The plot is roughly based upon the terrorist activities of American neo-Nazi and white supremacist Robert Mathews and his group The Order.
I appreciate your input.
Michael A. Hoffman II wrote a review of Betrayed (1988), I think in the Spotlight tabloid. But neither the film nor the review were very remarkable in my opinion.
🙂
I’ll mention a similar topic. Since we have been discussing both the state of California and the flaws of the Jewish dominated film industry, an interesting phenomenon has happened recently. Film production in L.A. is at an all-time low. It’s due to different reasons, but cost is the biggest. It has become cheaper to produce films in other states a lot of the time. The wildfires in L.A. made it worse. California’s governor, Gavin Newsome, has become very concerned over this. He has a proposal to offer the film industry big tax breaks and other financial incentives to keep film production in California. He offered to work with Trump on this back in May. That aspect of it may have changed since he and Trump are having a fallout over these ICE deportations. You can find a lot of articles about it online. Maybe the Jewish power brokers in L.A. are starting to become concerned that they will lose some of their control over the entertainment industry.
Bigfoot: June 14, 2025 at 6:52 pm … Since we have been discussing both the state of California and the flaws of the Jewish dominated film industry, an interesting phenomenon has happened recently. Film production in L.A. is at an all-time low. It’s due to different reasons, but cost is the biggest. It has become cheaper to produce films in other states a lot of the time… Maybe the Jewish power brokers in L.A. are starting to become concerned that they will some of their control over the entertainment industry.
Yes, it’s less expensive to produce films away from tight controls of monopolistic Jewish Hollywood studios, but the Jewish power brokers still manage to control many aspects like casting, promotion, reviews and distribution.
As for The Order movie, it is pretended to be set in Idaho but was filmed in Canada.
Thanks for the high level of discussion. People on CC are intelligent, well-mannered, and able to respect others even when they disagree with them. Try comparing it to the liberal mainstream or comments on YouTube, for example. CC is a unique place for good white people.
Ondrej Mann: June 14, 2025 Thanks for the high level of discussion. People on CC are intelligent, well-mannered, and able to respect others even when they disagree with them… CC is a unique place for good white people.
You are so right, Ondrej! Discussion of this movie is a topic that will lead to disagreements among even the good people that frequent C-C, but so important so good people can come to understand and counter the lies about The Order and The Turner Diaries novel by organized Jewry. You concluded in your review:
Bob was a fanatical idealist in the wrong place at the wrong time. If he had been born earlier in England, he could have been Robin Hood… But he was born in the US in 1952, stood up for his people and against Jewish power, and so he is a white supremacist, racist, and neo-Nazi. In the future, I believe Bob will achieve the status of a folk legend.
Again, you are right. Robin Hood, however, is an heroic fictional caracter. Bob was a real life man of his race whose deeds against a tyrannical System, though abortive, were the morally right thing to do at the time, in his mind.
My organization, the National Alliance, has entirely debunked our Jewish enemies’ negative portrayal of Robert Mathews and his band of real-life merry warriors in this movie and elsewhere. I will link to some of NA’s truths in subsequent comments under your review while comments are open. For now, here are NA founder William Pierce’s words about his friend Bob from 1993 in “William Pierce on Robert Mathews” at nationalvanguard.org (The text of Bob’s “Call to Arms” speech, delivered to those gathered at a real NA gathering in 1983 is here, plus these few extractedwords by Pierce about Bob’s speech:
…Bob’s talk was well received by the Alliance members. People like to hear a call to action even if they personally have no intention of doing anything except cheering from the sidelines. My own reaction at the time was somewhat cooler. And I tried tactfully to point out to Bob, after his speech, that his experiences in the Pacific Northwest might have given him a more optimistic view of the situation in America than that was justified by the facts. I told him that the people he had talked with during the summer weren’t really a cross-section of the American public, and that White people generally weren’t yet in a revolutionary mood.
In view of subsequent events, perhaps I shouldn’t have tried to be tactful but instead should have stressed the need to maintain a realistic view of our situation and not yield to the urge for premature action. I expressed my regrets in this regard to his widow a few months after his death. She told me that wouldn’t have made any difference. Bob had already decided before he gave his speech what he would do, she said. And there was no holding him back. He was fed up with the slow work of recruiting which was really much more discouraging work during the 1980s than it is now. And he had made up his mind to take up the gun against the enemy, regardless of the consequences. He had already told her what he intended to do would almost certainly cost him his life.
When most people think about the consequences of Bob’s decision, they think only about the negative things. About the facts that he was killed, and that a dozen good people were sent to prison. Some of our less radical brethren bemoan the fact that Bob, by using violence against the enemy, provoked repressive measures which made their own work more difficult. Bob succeeded in killing only one Jew, they add. And that Jew — an especially abrasive and obnoxious radio talk show host named Alan Berg who was machine-gunned in Denver in 1984 — would better have been left alive so that he could continue stirring up anti Jewish feeling among his listeners. Furthermore the violence gave the patriotic movement a black eye, they complain. And it scared away many potential supporters, who want nothing to do with violence or illegality.
There is, of course, some truth in these complaints. Many timid people were scared away from the patriotic movement by Bob’s activity and the enormous publicity it generated in the controlled media. Perhaps these people’s financial support would have been helpful. Perhaps it would have been better not to put the enemy on guard by attacking prematurely.
There is, however, a value in what Bob did which goes far beyond such petty consequences. In every revolution, in every great movement for human renewal, symbols are every bit as important as guns and money and manpower. Bob gave us a very important symbol. In the day-to-day work of writing and publishing and advertising and recruiting and organizing, we tend to forget the reality of our situation. We tend to believe that we are in some sort of political or ideological contest where you deal with your opponents the way the democrats and republicans deal with each other. We go about our work in a civilized way and lead more or less normal lives. At the extreme, we occasionally swap insults in public with our enemies. They call us “haters” and we call them un-American or anti-White or sick.
The fact is, however, that we are engaged in a fight for racial survival. It is a fight in which either our race or the Jews will be exterminated utterly. And it is a fight which we are losing. We’ve been losing it for the past 50 years. In every daily newspaper, in every radio or television news broadcast, we’re hit in the face with the fact that we are losing. Our noses are rubbed in it every day.
We read the statistics about the flood of non-Whites coming across our borders, both legally and illegally. And at the same time we listen to the controlled media and the churches uttering shrill accusations of “racism” against anyone that dares suggest that we already have too much wretched human refuse on our shores, while our government wrings its hands and claims that it is powerless to stem even the illegal portion of the flood. We see the growing hordes of this refuse on the streets of our cities. We know what it is doing to our schools and to the lives of our children. We see a rising tide of degeneracy, of crime, of racial mixing, of drug usage year after year. We see ourselves being dispossessed in our land — with our enemies gloating over each new victory in their growing campaign to disarm us and to silence us while the dispossession continues.
Bob Mathews saw all of these things, too. And then he stood up and said “I’m not going to take this anymore. It’s not enough for us to say that we believe in a White America, we also must fight for it. It’s time for us to begin killing the people who are killing our race.”
That sent a few faint hearts fluttering among these nominally on our side who stressed their obedience to the laws that our enemies imposed on us. It should have made them feel ashamed of themselves instead, because Bob was essentially right. He did what was morally right. He may have been a bit premature and he may have made many tactical errors. But he reminded us that we are not engaged in a debate between gentlemen — instead we are engaged in the most desperate war we have ever fought, a war for the survival of our race — and that ultimately we cannot win it except by killing our enemies. And we cannot kill our enemies without taking a chance on being killed ourselves. We needed that reminder. Bob elevated our struggle. He took us from name-calling to bloodletting. He cleared the air for us. In the long run that will be helpful. In the long run, that is what Bob will be remembered for.
Compare Pierce’s wisdon with the words of anti-White Jew J.M. Berger whose textbook, Extremism, is required reading in many University Sociology courses. Here’s Berger’s 2016 piece about The Turner Diaries: How ‘The Turner Diaries’ Changed White nationalism – The Atlantic
How a self-published, racist novel changed white nationalism and inspired decades of violence
By J.M. Berger
Before there was an alt-right, there was The Turner Diaries.
First published nearly 40 years ago, the infamous dystopian novel depicts a fictional white nationalist revolution culminating in global genocide.
The events of the book open 25 years ago today—September 16, 1991, the date of the first entry in Earl Turner’s diary. The fictional diary describes a racist’s vision of a nightmare world, in which “The System”—African American enforcers led by Jewish politicians—attempt to confiscate all guns in the United States. A secretive organization known as The Order rises up to take back the country for white supremacists, eventually winning an apocalyptic insurgency and nuclear war, first taking over the country and later the world.
The Turner Diaries was created in the 1970s by William Luther Pierce, leader of the neo-Nazi group the National Alliance. Crudely written and wildly racist, The Turner Diaries has helped inspire dozens of armed robberies and more than 200 murders in the decades since its publication.
The Turner Diaries first made headlines when a violent white nationalist gang appropriated the name of The Order, following the tactical blueprint for terrorism in the book. Turner catapulted to national prominence when it was revealed to be a key inspiration for Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Timothy McVeigh, who killed 168 people using a truck bomb strikingly similar to one described in detail in the book….
Scary hyperbolic nonsense from this Jew.
I recommend the book The Silent Brotherhood that The Order movie allegedly is based on to compare with the movie. It’s a fairly objective account of how “Robbie, the All-American Boy” transitioned from joining the John Birch Society as a young teen to his reading Alliance member William G. Simpson’s Which Way Western Man? to eventually become organizer and leader of the Order.
The first time I ever heard of Robert Matthews was from a ‘No Remorse’ (the naughtiest rock band in history) song entitled ‘Robert Matthews’. My interest was piqued and then I found out all about it. Quite an eye-opener.
I remember No Remorse! What an amazing band!
Yes indeed, Beau…with Paul Burnley, of course. Those hard-rockin’ RAC numbers with uncompromising lyrics are guaranteed to get a wowser’s panties in a twist!
Not long ago, I published an interview with guitarist No Remorse here on CC. Unfortunately, the interview has been deleted because the guitarist got into trouble because of it. If you want to read it, send me your email address and I’ll send it to you. The best song about Bob Mathews is Ode to Bob Mathews by Buldok, with lyrics by David Lane.
Yes, I’d be interested in that interview O.M.
Never heard of Buldok, I’ll look into it.
NS Crusty: June 15, 2025 The first time I ever heard of Robert Matthews [sic] was from a ‘No Remorse’ (the naughtiest rock band in history) song entitled ‘Robert Matthews’. My interest was piqued and then I found out all about it. Quite an eye-opener.
I recall watching No Remorse live back in the ’90s, though I wasn’t a big fan of White Power music. I’m surprised that a search for the band turned up nothing for me, but Ondrej Mann can probably find something, perhaps even the eye-opening lyrics you mention to “Robert Mathews.”
Where was that WW?
Maybe No Remorse have been mostly purged from the internet, but I still have my CD’s.
The ‘eye-opening’ I mentioned was due to the Robert Mathews’ (I’ll leave out the extra ‘t’ this time) Waco-like treatment. I read about him on your National Vanguard site a while back, but I need to refresh my memory.
Remove duplicate comment
Three days ago, my friend and guitarist from No Remorse, Nigel Brown, passed away. If you browse through my articles, you will find an interview with him. The interview is called Interview with Nigel Brown – From No Remorse to The Raven’s Wings.
I haven’t seen the Order movie yet. It will probably be one of those “straight to video” productions, and I am hoping to find it for free on a platform that I already subscribe to.
Anyway, some of the events in question are now a little hazy in my memory but I think the Order is a good example of why you don’t let “corporals with chisels” do the work of colonels and generals.
In my opinion, the fine folks of the Order, and promoters of the Skinhead aesthetic in general, set the cause of White Nationalism back forty years or more.
Clearly these private soldiers did not even bother to read George Lincoln Rockwell’s unfinished (1966-67) “Legal, Psychological and Political Warfare.”
When Alan Berg, the slimy and obnoxious Jewish radio talk show host, was assassinated in Denver in 1984, these amateurs used an esoteric and eminently-traceable firearm. Hard to get behind such maladroit stupidity even if the Cohen Act had been implemented (which has not happened yet in the USA).
I don’t even like to use the 14 holy words because its author was such a Dummkopf.
And for what point? Alan Harrison Berg made a fine foil, showcasing exactly what we oppose. Their main motive for the assassination was probably Berg’s atheism, probably his least loathsome feature.
About the time of the armored car heist at Ukiah, California and Mathews’ Whidbey Island firery Götterdämmerung in Washington State ─ I don’t recall the exact timeline now ─ I asked my friend the Rev. Ralph P. Forbes of Arkansan, who was an Identity Christian and one of GLR’s stormtroopers and a chaplain for the American Nazi Party what he thought of the character and reliability of people associated with pastor Richard Butler and the Aryan Nations of Hayden Lake, Idaho.
(I was living in Idaho at the time and following the news. Pastor Butler, a former aeronautical engineer, had said something favorable about the deceased Robert Jay Mathews in spite of the events that led to his death.)
Mr. Forbes said that he had great confindence in all of the folks that he had worked with from up there.
I was never interested in Identity Christianity, but I had many long discussions with Mr. Forbes about Hitler, Rockwell, National Socialism, Populism, and many other things ─ he writing in an inscrutible longhand. (Remember when people used to actually send letters?)
Mr. Forbes occasionally ran for office in Arkansas as a White Supreemist and worked closely with his wife Karen, with whom he had something like a dozen kids. Mr. Forbes had all of the taped recordings of Commander Rockwell’s speeches, many of them actually given at big Universities, and I have probably heard every word.
Anyway, long before Tim McVeigh, I had read the Turner Diaries (1978) novel by WN physicist Dr. William Luther Pierce. Interesting, for sure, but hardly a practical or theoretical Bible for a White Machtergreifung.
Matthews started out as Mormon survivalist, a genre with which I am somewhat familiar. In any case, these are debates and discussions that we need to have ─ just don’t confuse the wing waxers for the actual rocket scientists.
One of the key points in the TD is that the trigger for the rebellion is because the System has confiscated all private firearms, which would require an exceptionally heavy hand to accomplish in the USA.
Small countries like New Zealand, they have effectively done it after the 2019 Christchurch mosque shooting, and before that in Australia.
It should be noted that while Australia is massive like the United States ─ unlike the United States, virtually its entire White demographic is urban and lives in a handful of big cities.
Canada, without either a 1st or 2nd Amendment tradition, is geographically massive as well ─ with the population of California, but 90 percent of them live within 160 clicks (100 miles) of the U.S. border.
I think it is clear that ZOG is more inclined to boil the frog slowly than to pull something dumb like the Cohen Act, which would likely trigger a national revolt.
Perthaps all this sounds like a Boomerism ─ but most of you are fifty pounds overweight in your youth and have never dug a slit trench or so much as road-marched a load of ammuniton to the range. Sorry. The best leaders were once good followers who learned the craft.
The imbroglio with the Order, the Berg assassination, and the 1995 Murrah bombing in Oklahoma City, shows that brawn and enthusiasm does not make up for lack of brains. Leave the heavy-thinking to the NCOs and the officers; that is their job.
Over at the TRS forum (and many Leftist blogs) many are enamored by the “chiselled” Unibrow-mer, who shot and killed the corrupt CEO of United Healthcare ─ as if anarchopunks ever make any kind of difference at all on the side of White civilization and culture.
The TRS Death Panel are also complaining about Joel Davis (whom I don’t know that much about) and whining that the immigration riots and any concrete steps taken by Pres. Blompf against them are a distraction and that the real war is being fought by the Brown hordes against Israel.
But that is exactly opposite to what a certain uncle taught a century ago in that the most important aspect of Zionism is that it is really about the Diaspora, and not some desert place in the Levant where some religious Jews might go to retire.
I am on the fence about re-upping my TRS network subscription this year, but Mike Peinovich just dropped another interview with Holocaust Revisionist and degreed-Chemist Germar Rudolf, who has published another book, and I will support that.
🙂
Scott: if we know who the wing waxers are, who are the Rocket Scientists? Rockwell? Any others?
I don’t think they come any better than Rockwell, a true Renaissance man. I think there is a lot of talent in the WN movement. Some of it may need to be systematically developed somehow. Discussions like this were almost impossible not so very long ago. It bothers me that nobody has any military experience anymore because they were actually pretty good at teaching leadership. Whether that is still true, I can’t really say. In any case, none of us walks on water ─ but miracles are not really what we must have.
🙂
I don’t know why the Counter-Currents software won’t let me edit my post. I do know how to spell words like fiery.
🙂
Scott: June 15, 2025 ...Perthaps all this sounds like a Boomerism ─ but most of you are fifty pounds overweight in your youth and have never dug a slit trench or so much as road-marched a load of ammuniton to the range. Sorry. The best leaders were once good followers who learned the craft…
—
Scott, who are you addressing or, rather, dressing down with this long rant about Bob Mathews, David Lane, the novel The Turner Diaries, etc., while favoring your old CI friend Ralph Forbes? You’ll like The Order when you get around to seeing it free because you and the movie dislike the same things.
—
I am on the fence about re-upping my TRS network subscription this year, but Mike Peinovich…
What’s TRS? Isn’t Peinovich a Jew? Is that who you follow?
You are an experienced, very accomplished researcher and writer. I wonder why you are not a leader yourself instead of a follower or just a commentator?
I’m trying not to dress anybody down. I am frustrated however because it was so obvious that the Order jumped the gun and harmed the WN movement.
I don’t disagree with their White Supreemist goals, but the assassination of Alan Berg was so incredibly stupid that it has the fingerprints of Fed provocateur written all over it (or it might as well have). I cannot not call it out. I’m not an big insider so my knowledge is admittedly limited, but that is how I calls it.
There is nothing wrong with the novel, the Turner Diaries, and I have given away many copies for discussion purposes. It is one of my favorite books. It is just that people like Tim McVeigh had great enthusiasm but not so much brains. A tragic waste. I guess it is better than that Ginger-haired Goy who set himself on fire for Palestine.
Regarding Mike Peinovich. No, he is absolutely not a Jew. He is not a college graduate and comes from a Leftist background, which explains much, with his estranged father being a retired Libtard professor.
Mike is a very smart guy and he and his suave electric geetar-playing sound engineer and cohost Jessie Dunstan have been doing a based podcast for many years now, since before Trump came down the escalator in 2015 or whenever.
In fact, I first found Counter-Currents because Dr. Johnson used to be a regular on that very podcast. I just get frustrated because their Zoomer-generation peanut gallery audiences that they pander to as “edgy” can be so dumb sometimes.
Yes, Mike’s first wife was a Jew, but his second wife is a Gentile and a Holocaust Denier, and she has her own website here. Mike has since studied the subject and is extremely knowledgeable.
As long as they do some occasional Denials on their podcasts, I will probably continue to support them.
They distanced themselves from dodgy people like Andrew Anglin long ago, but I don’t see any fault with Joel Davis in that regard (not that I really know much about him), and I don’t really agree with their related takes.
As far as I’m concerned, the Palestinians are just not our fight. The focus is Immigration and Borders right now. Nothing else matters that much.
In any case, I don’t very much suffer fools in my old age, but I readily admit that I do not have all the answers.
I’m just a close-to-retirement, semi-crippled academic Library pick-and-shovel worker who used to be a Broadcast Engineer. When I retire ─ if I live that long ─ I hope to fiddle around with Ham Radio and write books on Revisionist topics or historical things that interest me. I have been quietly feeding research to Revisionist authors for a long time ─ nothing too special ─ and doing my best to stay off the radar.
Anyway, the recent Peinovich interview of Germar Rudolf can be found here. The audio is free but the video requires a TRS subscription. The TRS people (with zero military experience) actually think that the rocket barrage fired by the Ayatollahs against Israel recently will actually do something. No, because Zionism is really the Diaspora and not that sh*tty little country.
I don’t agree with all of their views, as they tend to approach these problems from more of a Libertarian or pacifistic perspective. For example, I don’t really think that nuking Japan was necessarily a war-crime.
General Curtis LeMay correctly noted that Hiroshmia and Nagasaki were actually less destructive than the conventional bombings elsewhere, and that he would have been labelled a War Criminal himself IF his side had lost the war ─ which is pretty much 99 percent of what you need to know with regards to the Good War.
🙂
No time to address much of what you’ve said here, Scott, but will say this since you are emphatic about Peinivich/Enoch.
Scott: June 16, 2025 Regarding Mike Peinovich. No, he is absolutely not a Jew. He is not a college graduate and comes from a Leftist background, which explains much… Mike is a very smart guy…
So, he’s smart and not even a college graduate. Imagine that. I’m going by a bit of “movement” intelligence that was put up on whitebiocentrism.com back in 2021:
Mike Enoch (Mike Peinovich) of TRS and National Justice Party admitted to being “a mixed Jewish person”, AKA a Jew by Robert Burns » Sun Oct 03, 2021:
But Mike Peinovich’s wife is not the only one who is Jewish. Mike himself is Jewish, but the TDS team refuse to admit this to their followers. There are a number of quotations where he gives the game away. On TDS, he slips up and reveals himself a couple of times:
“But in terms of who’s gonna be part of this movement, I would say yeah like it’s gotta be White people and really Jews should be excluded and if you’ve gotta let in a mixed Jewish person, then really they have to have done something to earn that, you know, and I think that, in my case, I did.”
“I’ve used the word Jewed in that kinda context basically my whole life and even amongst other Jews I use the word Jew that way.”
He either said that or he didn’t. I don’t follow “movement” Internet drama closely so don’t care. But a couple of years later I added this tidbit to the Peinovich topic:
It has been a couple of years since this “right-wing identitarian” podcaster from the National Justice Party (NJP) was exposed as a secret Jew, so, since he’s still around trying to influence resistance to anti-White Jewish supremacy, it deserves a bump.
I just learned that besides being a Jew, the podcaster, Peinovich/Enoch had appeared on the fraud Harold Covington’s bogus Northwest Front forum. https://counter-currents.com/2023/10/pa … ews-again/ There are more than 100 comments under that article, so one will have to search for that nugget about his trying to align NJP with NWF.
Good grief! what a movement.
I don’t know anything about Harold Covington and have never read any of his books.
I have heard a lot of interviews, podcasts, and snippets of Mike Enoch Peinovich, and I think many do want to twist his words out of context. It is important to have the whole recording of the conversation, and anytime anyone interviews him he makes it a point to digitally record the whole thing.
I think in the above snippet, which sounds familiar, Mike was arguing why one should not allow a group to be financed or led by Jews (i.e., because they universally promote race-mixing and are opposed to Goy nationalism and are inherent saboteurs in that respect). Mike admits here to some baggage in that he was once married to a Jew. But he is not a Jew.
I think the TRS crew all even did a 23 and Me test once for laughs. No Ashkenazi blood, but they noted the irony that these are Jewish-owned DNA ancestry-testing firms.
I guess I must be a Jew too since I had a Jewish pediatrician once when our family lived in Las Vegas and I was aged 5. (Actually my Pioneer family tree is meticulously documented since that is what Mormons do. It is mostly old English descent, also with Scotch and Welsh.)
Also, Many Jew-wise activists such as David Duke do not think that Mike Peinovich is a Jew. Mike’s Mom has Norwegian heritage and his Dad Serbian heritage; neither of them are Jewish. Mike was raised Episcopalian. His Mom is now dead and hise Dad disowned him as a “Nazi.”
Since Mike grew up in the NE coast, or around the rotten Apple, and even lived in Manhattan for a time when he was working, he knows a lot about Jews up close from observations and has some insights into them, including of the very insular religious types.
He is not part of the defunct NJP any longer, so this does not matter now unless rumors disqualify one from doing podcasts. If anything, at the TRS network, they tend to obsess over Jews and Israel and often miss the forest for the trees in other ways. The Jewish question is crucial, but “Naming the Jew” is only part of the big puzzle.
Even the National Socialists from the before-time had clear definitions here. For them a Jew was at best a German National who should emigrate, and who could not therefore be a German Citizen.
Who is a Jew was defined 1) as having three or more Jewish grandparents, or 2) only having two Jewish grandparents PLUS either having practiced the Jewish religion, or having a Jewish spouse. (Having a drop of Jewish blood and practicing Communism or some Leftist variant, did the trick as well.)
Unfortunately, boys born postwar in the hospitals of Anglo-Saxon countries that had their medical institutions taken over by “progress” were all circumcised ─ so this is not a reliable indicator of crypto-Jewishness. Mike P. is a Gen-Xer but I’ve forgotten his exact birth year.
When I was a Boomer kid in gym class, the only boys not cut were the Mexicans and the odd exchange student from Europe or Japan. That is not true with Zoomers, as the hospitals (mostly) do not dare do this to infants automatically any longer.
🙂
In my view, groups like The Order are the “White Nationalist version” of John Brown’s anti-slavery crusaders (who went around killing White Southerners in a quest to create a revolution). America has a long history of these types. They always think that their violent acts will kick off an apocalyptic war and that an “elect” will emerge victorious.
They aren’t Robin Hoods and they certainly aren’t on the level of someone like Napoleon or Hitler (and whether people like the latter or not, it’s obvious that he wouldn’t have tolerated the behavior that pops up in the American WN space – his ‘method’ was: use populism to win power -> use control of the government to push back against forces and ideas that he believed were harmful to the German people -> build up the German ‘Volksgemeinschaft‘).
There’s a theatrical, fantasy prone aspect of American culture and no one ever wants to call it out. However, that mindset clearly isn’t very productive.
I think you’ve nailed it!
EDIT:
I want to edit this comment to underscore the point and emphasize how much I think the above post by Dani Vypont hits it right out of the ballpark. Your brilliant post is worth saving and quoting, in fact.
🙂
Years ago, a commenter tried to defend mass shooters by claiming that people are “memetic” animals and thus such shootings might spark an uprising. That is clearly the assumption driving such attacks. The trouble with that reasoning is that it only inspires more marginal people to shoot up places of worship. There is no evidence that it will inspire an actual revolution, because real revolutionaries have discipline and foresight and recognize the stupidity of such tactics.
That’s right. I mention that in my review.
Yes, exactly!
🙂
Another movie loosely based on “the Order BS” was the Tom Beringer, Debra Winger movie “Betrayed” . IMO it was an excellent movie.
What do others think of “Betrayed”?
( I do now see others have commented on the movie ” Betrayed ” mea culpa )
I think Tom Beringer’s performance was great! The only thing I didn’t like about the movie is that Debra Winger, who was obviously a jewess with a “bob-job” was so easily able to penetrate “the order.” 🙃
Scott, responding to me: June 17, 2025 I don’t know anything about Harold Covington and have never read any of his books…
I have heard a lot of interviews, podcasts, and snippets of Mike Enoch Peinovich… It is important to have the whole recording of the conversation, and anytime anyone interviews him he makes it a point to digitally record the whole thing….
Yes, Scott, context is important. and since you say Peinovich saves everything he says in podcasts, or wherever, digitally it shouldn’t be too awfully difficult to establish whether he admitted to saying he is part Jewish, or not. It’s important. I’m not going to do it. Unlike you, I’ve never heard one word he has ever uttered.
I’m curious, does he have dependent children from the decade-long marriage to his Jewish wife. If so, that alone makes him ineligible for NA membership.
How could you not know anything about Harold Covington? His fantasy novels have been praised here on C-C, on TOO, and elsewhere for years. No one ever said he couldn’t turn a phrase, but good character counts in our leaders. That is something he lacked.
I know everything about the sorry SOB, from when he hiked up in my hometown in 1985, through when he sued me and Ben Klassen for defamation in 1988; through when he attacked every legitimate, sincere leader of our cause for years until I finally sued him for defamation in 1996. He had finally fucked up, put in writing and distributed to third parties in his shitty little snailmailed newsletter that, among other outrageous libels, that I was “John Doe #2,” Tim McVeigh’s handler, a deep cover FBI Special Agent who had infiltrated the White cause for 14 years.
What would you have done, Scott? I won a substantial judgment against the mendacious political saboteur and professional smear artist and he ended up owing me $250,000 before I finally forced a settlement. Of course he never told his hobbyest followers/suckers or Mike Peinovich that he had been forced to settle with me or that he had declared bankruptcy to avoid execution of my judgment. That’s all been documented truthfully for years, but I won’t get into that off-topic crap under Ondrej’s review of The Order. You brought up Peinovich, and that needed to be addressed.
I’m glad Ondrej included the two images I’d sent to him that are near the bottom of his review. What a sharp contrast between the phony image of a smoke-filled “National Alliance Convention” in the movie juxtaposed with the image of a real National Alliance gathering with Dr. Pierce addressing his neatly-dressed membership. I’m actually pictured in that latter image, taken some 30 years ago (second row, aisle seat on the right side), that may give me some creibibility to truth-seekers as I comment about things like our Alliance, Covington or anti-White Hollywood propaganda, thanks.
Scott, I concur with Will here. I saw Covington’s Usenet posts back then, including the “John Doe #2” accusation. My take was that Covington was a very divisive sort, and typically going after everyone doing anything effective. Someone who behaves that way, using most of his energies on infighting and self-aggrandizement, is either a jealous would-be armchair Caesar, or a deliberate saboteur. His novels do have some popularity, but I can’t say one way or another since I haven’t read them.
Yeah, I know who Harold Covington was. I have just never read any of his books, and because of the mischief done in 1984 and later, I have been fairly skeptical about Movement personalities and drama. There have been a lot of bad actors. The Order people were stupid enough that they might as well have been Feds. I started watching the recent movie but have not had time to finish it yet.
🙂
I don’t think Mike Peinovich has any children. He is a good podcaster and quite talented ─ even if I don’t always agree with his takes.
I had big doubts about the National Justice Party (NJP) because they had zero transparency. A political party has to be pretty clear about its stances and lots of other minutia, or it opens itself up to malicious rumors. The best way to combat gossip is to be open and authoritative about what you want or need to be known. Not everything is “classified” information.
🙂
I watched “The Order” movie last night for the first time.
IMO – not bad, pretty good.
The actor that played Bob Matthews was very good, looked the part , very fit, had the charism.
Most of the casting was also good of the Order members and the women around them. I forgot that Bob Matthews wife couldn’t conceive children. I seem to recall Bob Matthews adopted his wife’s son.
Anybody know what happened to Bob Matthews’ real flesh and blood daughter? I hope they turned out a bit better than George Lincoln Rockwell’s children.
Yes, a few things stood out that were not realistic. The Order compound with huge Swastica banners everywhere , the burnt KKK cross with Bob Matthews saying “Don’t do that, it causes attention, then they go it to the huge airline hanger or whatever with huge Swastica banners right next to their counterfeit money presses.
OK , that didn’t work.
My own thoughts on the real “The Order” as depicted in this movie and also in “Betrayed”, the book “The Silent Brotherhood” – they did well, and were playing the Robin Hood role to good effect. I liked the bombing of the porn theaters.
Yes, the assassination of the Je* talk show host Alan Berg was a mistake. Also a mistake to go too far a geographical area. In hind site should have done more like HAC’s novels and focused on White separatist revolution in a smaller area in the Northwest like the IRA.
Bob Matthews “declaration of war” against the entire Washington Government, all the Js media, all the banks that’s too much when you only have a small revolutionary cell.
OK, that’s just my take.
It wasn’t a bad movie IMO.
JR
I never heard how Rockwell’s kids turned out. I hope it doesn’t involve some direct-to-video (((docudrama))) premiering on a 2am cable TV slot…
Rockwell had seven children between two wives. The first one was trouble from the start and his in-laws were Libtards.
His second wife left him, and they divorced in 1961; she could not handle his incessant shoestring Conservative political activism. Margrét Þóra Hallgrímsson (aka Thora Hallgrimsdottir) was a socialite from a rich Icelandic family, so with their father dead, the kids probably turned out to be Libtards too. I can’t recall anything too specific. Thora died in 2020 at the age of 90.
One thing that Rockwell did that was kind of dumb is that he went into extremist politics after 19 1/2 years of service in the U.S. Navy. As a result, they kicked him out of the Naval Reserve six months before he could collect his military pension. He should have seen that one coming.
🙂
I am also interested in this topic. I searched for it, but I couldn’t find out what happened to Robert J. Mathews’ children. What happened to George Lincoln Rockwell’s children? Maybe Will Williams knows the answer to this question?
Okay, I’ve finished watching the movie now. About what I expected: “Keystone Cops meet White Trash.”
I wish that I could find something inspirational in it but I just can’t. These yo-yos set back White Power immeasurably.
The scenes with obnoxious Jewish talk radio host Alan Berg were pretty well done. However, the real Alan Berg of the KOA Denver 50 kilowatt AM blowtorch was far more obnoxious than portrayed in the movie here.
In the scene with Pastor Richard Butler and the “National Alliance” meeting, this was actually the Aryan Nations “Congress.”
Randy Weaver attended one of these Aryan Nations Congresses ─ but deciding that Identity Christianity was not for him ─ and thereby he was targeted by the Feds to bccome an informant but refused to cooperate. As a result, he was setup in an entrapment scheme that came to a head at Ruby Ridge, Idaho in 1992 where his wife and son were killed by Feds including sniper Lon Horiuchi. I believe there were “Wanted Dead or Alive” ads placed in the venerable Shotgun News for our itchy-trigger-fingered Hawaiian marksman that killed the Weavers ─ but that may be apocryphal.
In the ending credits, The Order movie actually claims that The Turner Diaries influenced J6. What a load of horseshït! Q Tards are not reading William Pierce novels.
I think the acting was pretty good. The English actor playing Bob Mathews gave it the expected level of intensity.
The one fictional Keystone Cop who got killed in the film was married to a Native actress with some Filipina blood. I guess that explains what made him want to go after the White Supreemists ─ if not necessarily accounting for his lack of courage and competence.
And I could have done entirely without the bossy Jewlatta Fed who is the real life sister of Jussie Smollett, the Gay Jewlatto who faked the Hate Crime in Chicago in 2019 and got his felony charges dropped by Cook County State’s Negress Kim Foxx.
In better times, a proverbial “Day of the Rope” would not be needed because justice would not be fictional.
🙂
Scott: June 19, 2025… About what I expected: “Keystone Cops meet White Trash.” These yo-yos set back White Power immeasurably… In the ending credits, The Order movie actually claims that The Turner Diaries influenced J6. What a load of horseshït! Q Tards are not reading William Pierce novels… And I could have done entirely without the bossy Jewlatta Fed who is the real life sister of Jussie Smollett, the [queer] Jewlatto who faked the Hate Crime in Chicago in 2019 and got his felony charges dropped by Cook County State’s Negress Kim Foxx.
But, but, Jussie’s demi-Jew sis is a favorite with Hollywood Jews and her fictional role as good guy FBI Special Agent called for a Negress to go up against the evil Whites.
The entire movie is bullshit, Scott, but it’s good that you caught that one big lie about J6.
You write like most people, but may be interested in this at nationalvanguarg.org: “William Pierce on Robert Mathews”. He had this to say in 1993:
When most people think about the consequences of Bob’s decision, they think only about the negative things. About the facts that he was killed, and that a dozen good people were sent to prison. Some of our less radical brethren bemoan the fact that Bob, by using violence against the enemy, provoked repressive measures which made their own work more difficult. Bob succeeded in killing only one Jew, they add. And that Jew — an especially abrasive and obnoxious radio talk show host named Alan Berg who was machine-gunned in Denver in 1984 — would better have been left alive so that he could continue stirring up anti Jewish feeling among his listeners. Furthermore the violence gave the patriotic movement a black eye, they complain. And it scared away many potential supporters, who want nothing to do with violence or illegality.
There is, of course, some truth in these complaints. Many timid people were scared away from the patriotic movement by Bob’s activity and the enormous publicity it generated in the controlled media. Perhaps these people’s financial support would have been helpful. Perhaps it would have been better not to put the enemy on guard by attacking prematurely.
There is, however, a value in what Bob did which goes far beyond such petty consequences. In every revolution, in every great movement for human renewal, symbols are every bit as important as guns and money and manpower. Bob gave us a very important symbol. In the day-to-day work of writing and publishing and advertising and recruiting and organizing, we tend to forget the reality of our situation. We tend to believe that we are in some sort of political or ideological contest where you deal with your opponents the way the democrats and republicans deal with each other. We go about our work in a civilized way and lead more or less normal lives. At the extreme, we occasionally swap insults in public with our enemies. They call us “haters” and we call them un-American or anti-White or sick.
The fact is, however, that we are engaged in a fight for racial survival. It is a fight in which either our race or the Jews will be exterminated utterly. And it is a fight which we are losing. We’ve been losing it for the past 50 years. In every daily newspaper, in every radio or television news broadcast, we’re hit in the face with the fact that we are losing. Our noses are rubbed in it every day…
Richard Scutari, a surviving Order member, who is neither White trash nor a yo-yo, told me after he watched the movie online that many of the lies he’d observed in the film, mixed in with enough truth and half-truths were calculated to have American moviegoers to like the film or like the acting, as you say you did.
Richard is an honorable man who spent 37 years in federal cages, much of that time in solitary, because he repeatedly refused to accept a plea offer of a reduced sentenced if he would testify against his brothers. Think about that before calling him names.
Ondrej Mann: June 18, 2025 … What happened to George Lincoln Rockwell’s children? Maybe Will Williams knows the answer to this question?
Nope. Can’t help, but I expect Scott can. He is a very accomplished researcher.
I think Dr. Pierce’s analysis on Mathews is way off-base, and part of the reason that I always eschewed him as a “Movement” leader.
However, I will also say that Dr. Pierce was a complex man and of course a brilliant man, and I acknowledge that I may have underestimated him, and probably should have studied his ideas more closely when he was alive.
Given the above, however, he was dead wrong on Mathews and what the Order actually represented to White Power.
When I say that The Order set White Nationalism back four decades or more, I don’t mean that it scared away the deep pockets fair-weather-freinds of the (Internet) Movement.
No, it hugely sabotaged the Movement ─ unintentionally perhaps, but stupidity and wishful thinking yields its own rewards.
“Richard is an honorable man who spent 37 years in federal cages, much of that time in solitary, because he repeatedly refused to accept a plea offer of a reduced sentenced if he would testify against his brothers. Think about that before calling him names.”
I can’t really comment because I don’t know what actual crimes Richard committed. I am sure that like Randy Weaver, who did little more than Thoughtcrime, Richard was treated none too gently by ZOG.
The thing is, just as George Lincoln Rockwell observed over six decades ago, the System wants to treat people like criminals for Wrongthink the way that any decent regime ought to deal with actual crimes. That is a trap that we do not want to fall into. It is a rookie mistake.
Commander Rockwell made this very point in his uncompleted Legal, Psychological, and Political Warfare that it is incumbent upon us, the would-be revolutionaries, to always know the difference between the two infractions.
That is why you do not let “corporals with chisels” (my coinage) do the work of the colonels and generals. The small-fry faithful have a hard time discriminating the obvious.
Any yo-yo with a proverbial chisel can vandalize a graven image, and sometimes this might be essential for the wider plan. But rarely can these corporals turn into Hitlers and Napoleons who can actually build modern civilization and cultivate White Culture.
This is illustrated somewhat in The Order film. They want to show that these people are bad because they are Natzees or fly the swastika. That is incorrect.
Pastor Butler knows that Bob Mathews is a good man but a dumb hot-head that needs to be busted back to the ranks ─ but that is not really the Pastor’s place. No real Leader or Commander has emerged.
Then Mathews interupts one of Butler’s Christian Identity lectures and says something from the pews that soon has the crowd stomping feet like at a rock concert. The film has Butler cowed and yielding to the social-darwinism of “the strength of [a future] dead man’s deeds.”
Dr. Pierce also is awed by the imagined teleology here instead of calling out the thick-skulled stupidity of the corporals.
I am going to have to defend my name-calling here. Any Movement meeting that I ever went to utterly failed to impress me as being able toscore for White Power or for White people. There were wonderful folks there, for sure, but the entire vibe ─ the entire aesthetic or apparent raison d’etre of the Movement itself ─ was represented by scruffy looking guys who were mainly experts on how to hoist suds to their faces. The Order movie depicted this also, but in a more understated sense.
I have nothing against welders and people who work the land, but these are not the best Shock Troops, let alone gifted leaders.
The Nazis understood that at least where it comes to the Cadres, they have to look like the Prussian Guard. Rockwell also made sure that his Stormtroopers were at least clean-cut and had a disciplined bearing. The few NJP political demonstrations looked pretty good too, I thought.
The Order film does have Bob Mathews making some compelling points, however. What is the Movement waiting for exactly?
Well, that is the million dollar question. None of us really knows, except that I am certain that we aren’t going to get any saviors descending from heaven, nor will we meme something into existence and get our countries back when some zealot shoots up a Pride event or Drag Queen Story Hour.
As I said before, real Justice is something essential that we either have or we don’t. Every great statesman understands the importance of this.
So far not many of us have really understood the nature of Power itself and Statecraft. Hitler obviously understood it, and I think so did Rockwell.
Mathews and Pierce, not so much.
🙂
Scott: to be clear Pierce agrees with you on the main thing, he thinks Matthews actions were a mistake and he tried to talk him out of them. He just sees that once the mistake was made there is a flip side to it as well–that despite the errors there is something noble in his example.
No doubt The Order made mistakes–lots of them–like trusting Tom Marinez for one, dropping the gun in Ukiah, and keeping NS material in PO Boxes where they could be found. But they did waltz off with 3.6 million by commandeering a Brinks Truck on the Highway–so I hardly think that makes them stupid or, as you say, White Trash. It seems to me they were pretty damn daring and capable.
I think Pierce’s characterization of their “relative professionalism” is on the mark. Had they been more circumspect there is no telling what they might have done. Matthews was looking into plastic surgery to make them anonymous and was thinking along the lines of dams and power grids. It’s not crazy to think he might have pulled it off.
But either way Mathews believed the future belongs to the man willing to get his hands dirty.
Fair enough. Dr. Pierce was a smart guy.
It was definitely a mistake, however, because failing to understand the difference and to discriminate between Thoughtcrime and actual crime is of crucial importance.
“It’s not crazy to think he might have pulled it off.”
Well, regardless of how good and dedicated your guys are at robbing porn shops and armored cars, or even if they can do significant damage to dams and power grids, all the State has to do is ratchet up its inherent force and take a big dump on you. They control the crushing force unless somebody has a cache of nukes somewhere like in the Pierce novel.
The recent movie also has the Order counterfeiting U.S. currency. I don’t know how successful they were at it other than getting unwanted attention from the Feds.
Counterfeiting is literally printing money, and it seems like a good idea on the surface ─ and it would be if ZOG actually gave you their printing press plates, like Harry Hopkins and Harry Dexter White did for Stalin.
But the point is that even barely-functional regimes can deal with lawlessness if and when they want to because that is why they are the State in the first place.
(Maybe you could pull off a successful coup in a completely failed state like Haiti or Somalia ─ and even make it stick longer if you are not a bunch of Darkies and are capable of actually creating a replacement State.)
Hitler alludes to this in Mein Kampf because he understands essentially that after the Beer Hall Putsch, even without a betrayal, a coup is ultimately certain to fail.
He knows that he is not going to be able to gain power in Germany by marching into one Communist Beer Hall after another with a squad and a sack full of hand grenades. (That would make a good movie, though.)
I’m sure that Bob Mathews would have been a good soldier and future leader under different circumstances. That is part of why I say that the whole thing was a waste. The same with McVeigh.
“But either way Mathews believed the future belongs to the man willing to get his hands dirty.”
And it is a rookie mistake. That is framing the wrong problem. All soldiers get their hands dirty on day one ─ and that is what happens when the State first starts calling militias to arms. Then General Washington enforces the military discipline. In war, the last thing that a leader or commander is worried about is winnowing out the soft Bourgeois sentiments of his soldiers and subjects. As Louis the XIV put it, “the State is Me.”
In any case, suds-swillers printing edgy fliers (or edgy podcasting for the surly peanut gallery subscribers) is not the same as fighting a war nor having real power.
But, as long as idea-warriors can avoid real crimes, they can operate in the fruitful arena of “Thoughtcrime” in debate, dialectic, propaganda, recruiting, fundraising, and activism ─ consistently hitting the System where it is ideologically its weakest, and actually making concrete political gains against it until one day your side actually holds the diplomatic purse-strings.
Although he did not have a royal mandate or claim to power other than to destroy the hated Versailles Treaty, that is exactly what Hitler did.
Rockwell was taking his first shaky steps, but he was on the right track.
🙂
Scott: June 20, 2025 I think Dr. Pierce’s analysis on Mathews is way off-base, and part of the reason that I always eschewed him as a “Movement” leader.
You are uninformed and talking through your ass now, Scott. Pierce’s organization was always apart from the wider “movement” that you are in, You strike me as being a fault-finding hobbyist.
Not for you since you won’t read it, but I offer this classic wisdom of Dr. Pierce from nearly 50 years ago for other readers to ponder. I’ve put this here on C-C previously: “Why Don’t All the Pro-White Organizations Unite?” at nationalvanguard.org
This is forward-looking advice from Pierce to his members in the January 2022 NA Members BULLETIN, a few months before he died: “WLP91: The So-Called Movement” also at nationalvanguard.org
… [T]here are members who still have a fixation on something called the “movement” rather than on the Alliance. These “movement”-oriented members see the Alliance not as unique and irreplaceable, but merely as one organization among many, all working toward the same goal. “How much stronger our movement will be” they think; “when all these organizations are united. Now we are weak because we are divided, but if we all work together we will be stronger and more successful.” These members also tend to regard anyone who sticks his arm out and shouts “White power,” as a “comrade” much like a fellow Alliance member.
There can be no doubt that we are weak now compared to our enemies, but we will not become stronger by “uniting” with weak or defective organizations — and that includes virtually every “movement” group. The Alliance is not only far and away the strongest and most effective of all the organizations claiming to share our goals: it is the only organization in North America that has any prospect at all for effectively opposing the Jews and their allies in the future. I say this not to disparage any other organization or individual, but as a simple statement of fact.
The Alliance became what it is today by following its own course from its inception. It never saw an opportunity to become stronger by uniting with another organization, and it sees none now. If in the future a suitable organization with which the Alliance might unite comes into existence, then we can explore the possibilities for collaboration. That is not a likely prospect however, for the following reason: if someone decides to form a new organization, instead of becoming a member of the Alliance, it is either because he actually has a significantly different goal or ideology from the Alliance or is determined to use significantly different tactics, or it is because of personal reasons. By far the most common personal reason is egotism: he wants to have his own organization…
I don’t expect you to ever apply to join NA, Scott, though you are probably eligible to apply. You do not support NA’s ideology, its program and goals, so simply are not serious Alliance material. Since you are so wise about what is needed to preserve the White race, though, why don’t you launch a new organization, like Pierce did 55 years ago from scratch, and lead it? He went on to say about the “movement”:
I am not willing to compromise in any significant way the goals or ideology of the National Alliance. The examples that come to mind of other organizations or individuals that had similar goals but significantly different tactics are those that were too impatient to follow a course of legality and were determined instead to move ahead faster than the Alliance by using illegal tactics. So far such a course has not been successful, and it is my carefully considered judgment that such tactics are not likely to be successful prior to a major weakening or disruption of the government.
A member who disagrees with this rather dim view of the “movement” should choose a “movement” organization and join it, or he should start his own organization, but he should resign his membership of the Alliance.
Like I said, Pierce told his members that in his January BULLETIN and followed it up in his February issue with the following further guidance. Remember this was in early 2002, 23 years ago, prior the the explosion of social media when the internet was becoming like the Wild West, largely undisciplined:
One misimpression on the part of a few members is that they are no longer permitted to represent themselves as Alliance members except on an approved website. This is not so. Members are free to identify themselves as members in discussion groups, “chat rooms,” bulletin board postings, etc., as long as they make it clear that they are speaking only as individuals and not as spokesmen for the Alliance.
The views I have expressed in the past about discussion groups and similar internet entities have been largely negative, for two reasons. First, the anonymity and lack of accountability in discussion groups lead to irresponsibility and foolishness. Much of what goes on in discussion groups is beyond silly.
Second, the internet becomes a make-believe, alternate world for many people. Instead of using their time to disseminate our message and recruit in the real world, they escape into the more agreeable, make-believe, world of discussion groups and “chat-rooms” where they can feel themselves safely among friends. Indeed, the internet is like a habit-forming drug for many of our members. As soon as they come home from work they turn on their computers, and they stay glued to the screen until bedtime. As so often is the case in this soft, emasculated society, chatter takes the place of action.
A few members whose opinions I respect have tried to persuade me that internet discussion groups do have some potential redeeming value after all – provided that the members using them do so in a disciplined, purposeful way, keeping their minds focused on the objective instead of succumbing to the drug. Perhaps in the near future the National Office will offer some useful guidance to such members.
—
I can’t really comment because I don’t know what actual crimes Richard [Scutari] committed.
I told you everything you need to know about Richard already, but if you must know, the “crimes” that earned him a 60-year sentence in JOG prisons were trumped up “conspiracy and racketeering” charges — no victims.
He is considered by many to be a martyr for our cause. He was given many opportunities to “tell all” and be released; he chose to remain silent (as in Silent Brotherhood). Richard, released on parole this year for good behavior, has been an honorary National Alliance member since 1992 because he was an exemplary, honorable political prisoner of the JOG, an unbroken warrior.
—
So far not many of us have really understood the nature of Power itself and Statecraft. Hitler obviously understood it, and I think so did Rockwell. Mathews and Pierce, not so much.
Says you. Dr. Pierce had plenty to say about Mr. Hitler, mostly positive; it’s all easy to find at NV.
GLR was not only Pierce’s early mentor, he was his friend. You, or others, may gain insight into their relationship by reading this that Pierce wrote 58 years ago, soon after Rockwell’s assassination: “Lincoln Rockwell: A National Socialist Life” at nationalvanguard.org
Sorry, Scott, I have no more time to respond to you. I’m too busy.
Pastor Butler was not involved in criminal activity as far as I know and his Aryan Nations – Church of Jesus Christ Christian still got RICOed by the ZOG and the SPLC, although he did beat seditious conspiracy charges.
Butler had too much contact with the Order. I am sure that there is much for us to learn there, which is why these discussions are important.
I seems to me that Dr. Pierce wanted to have it both ways and to disavow the Order without calling out its half-cocked perpetrators. How much he actually knew about it, I don’t know.
I think he was wrong to not draw a clear line and instead ignored one of Commander Rockwell’s cardinal rules.
I expected more from any major Movement guys, because Rockwell understood all of this long ago.
George Lincoln Rockwell once said that if he got wind of such things like bombs or a barn full of machine guns (as would later be represented by the Order) that he would be forced to notify the authorities himself, as it would mortally jeopardize everything.
Rockwell said he would have to crack down on this not because he was a race-traitor but because he cared about the future of the race and wanted to avoid the pitfalls that a serious Movement will face.
Rockwell would have stood up to Mathews even if he got killed for it.
Make no mistake that in my view, Mathews is to blame here, and not Pierce nor anyone else. I don’t even know how much, if anything, about the affair was known to Dr. Pierce or Pastor Butler. Rev. Forbes told me that he knew nothing about it.
There were some other bad actors in those days such as the guy who shot the vile Larry Flynt, and I can remember in the 1970s another “Movement Guy” shooting inter-racial couples on the street in Salt Lake City.
Well, this was not something that you would find normalized in SLC in the 1970s. The first time that I can ever remember even seeing a Zebra couple flaunting in public was at the Atlanta airport in 1981 when I joined the Army.
Anyway, Hitler wrote a chapter in Mein Kampf about the strong being the strongest while alone (Vol. II Ch. 8). I think part of what the future Kriegsherr is saying is that coalitions of Conservative or Patriotic movements are inherently flawed and messy. They are destined to fail politically.
Our Uncle was probably channeling Schiller with the chapter title, but I think the point is that a Movement has to operate for a concerted goal ─ and I don’t think there is any room for yo-yos who think that they can bomb more porn shops than the other guys in the pub and hope to actually seize power.
Messy goals means inherent failure, if not controlled-opposition. And the whole thing is fantasy-prone thinking at its worst, and demonstrates that the Movement (if there really was one) lacked any serious leadership at the time.
I freely admit that I am not really a “Movement” guy, as I have often said. And I don’t have all the answers.
I’m a licensed Broadcasting Engineer who trained as a historian in later life and that is what I aspire to in my dotage. My interest is mostly Holohoax and I try to stay in my lane.
I am only explaining my views on the Order and its messy legacy. Messy is not good! There is no way to put lipstick on that pig. Somebody who isn’t the enemy should have called it out long ago.
I used to support the National Socialist White People’s Party with my modest student’s mites, but I don’t know what happened to them after they became the New Order and moved to Milwaukee from Washington, DC. The move was probably not wrong, and in the day they probably could have benefited greatly from the Internet had it been in existence.
I think going all Savitri Devi or “esoteric Hitler” and Leftist Lite was unwise. Milwaukee once had a few Socialist mayors, I guess, but they also seem exceptionally Woke, so maybe it would have been better for the NSWPP (later New Order) to stay at Zog central and try to keep in the public eye and remain topical. I remember when they decided to use the Betsy Ross flag instead of the Stars and Stripes “System” flag, and that sounded like a good idea to me. Some occasions might, of course, but not all occasions do warrant a Swastika and some fumigant.
And just being more Progressive or Populist than the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht and trying to recruit a bunch of cornfed Leftist youth is not necessarily a game-changer, but at least if they are White. It takes more in any case than just being edgy on podcasts and “calling out the Jew.” Not all of our problems are Jews.
Just my 0.02 dollars. If anybody else has any views about how Mathews and The Order honjocks might or might not have actually set us back by going on the criminal warpath, please elaborate. I want to know and it is worth discussion. The New Order name change from Rockwell’s NSWPP predated Bob Mathews’ “The Order” gang, but I wonder if anyone ever mixed them up.
Thanks for the discussion.
😉
As someone who is playing ” catchup” on Dr. Pierce’s writings, even to me is was clear that Dr. Pierce wanted no part in the wider “movement”.
The articles that Chairman Williams linked will be able to paint Dr. Pierce’s view of the “movement” very clearly. I want to pull from the article ” I Remember Dr. Pierce” by Kevin Strom. In this heartfelt article Mr. Strom says this ” But behind it all, behind everything he did, and overshadowing every other consideration, was the necessity for our race to begin ascending what he called the Upward Path once again.” Dr. Pierce never changed his views, never altered his goals, unlike the countless “movement leaders” Scott likes to praise. Lesser men take the path of least resistance, Dr. Pierce knew what this struggle required and he never backed down once.
Now back to The Order, Dr. Pierce didn’t want to play ” both sides”, what a silly statement to make. In the broadcast entitled A Call to Arms- Robert Mathews, Dr. Pierce ends Mr. Mathews powerful speech with ” But he reminded us that we are not engaged in a debate between gentlemen. Instead we are engaged in the most desperate war we have ever fought. A war for the survival of our race. And that ultimately we can not win it except by killing our enemies. And we can not kill our enemies without taking a chance on being killed ourselves. We needed that reminder. Bob elevated our struggle. He took us from name calling to blood letting. He cleared the air for us. In the long run that will be helpful. In the long run that is what Bob will be remembered for.”
So no, Dr. Pierce never changed his views on The Order and their sacrifice. I saw a mention of Mr. Richard Scutari, these words I mentioned above were included in his novel, Unbroken Warrior. Specifically on page 58.
The entire film is a terrible propaganda piece attempting to bad mouth the Alliance. The Turner Diaries was used heavily as the “big bad” of the film. Even though it was never intended to be a blue print for violent revolution, and anyone who has read the novel will understand this. “Only by making our beliefs into a living faith which guides us from day to day can we maintain the moral strength to overcome the obstacles and hardships which lie ahead” – The Turner Diaries pg:9. The only time I laughed was when the film makers decided to place a copy of it next to a picture of Jesus.
Later in the film you have the Aryan Nation’s ” National Alliance” Convention. I can’t even name a single thing accurate about this scene as the entire thing is nonsense. One example of many was that Bob Mathew’s speech was not some spur of the moment thing. It was planned and organized and it was given September 4th, 1983 at the General Convention of the National Alliance in Arlington Virginia. Not Hayden Lake Idaho.
For those interested to actually learn about The Order, go to NationalVanguard.org and listen to the four part series for a more accurate and well put together piece of content.
I detest those that are typically on the ” Pro-White” side of things, that call for action then immediately start crying whenever someone goes out and does something. The Order had an awful lot of ” firsts” under their belt. They made some tactical mistakes, but morally did they do a thing wrong ? No. The Order stands todays as a group of young men who saw what voting and working within the system accomplished ( nothing) and did what they felt was best for the survival of our race.
One thing they got right was that working within the system is a fools game. But instead of attempting to overthrow the government now, its time to build up the alternative. To show Whites that our way of life isn’t just a theory in books, but instead a real alternative to success. The physical, real world community whose goal is not only White living space, governed by ourselves, but also a spiritual revolution that will make that community eternal is what Dr. Pierce had in mind for us. This is the goal the National Alliance continues to strive for. To learn more about the Alliance’s goals and how you can be apart of the resistance, go here: Natall.com.
Scott:
“Although he did not have a royal mandate or claim to power other than to destroy the hated Versailles Treaty, that is exactly what Hitler did.
Rockwell was taking his first shaky steps, but he was on the right track.”
You make excellent points, thank you for the detailed response. Your writing is always a pleasure to read.
Thanks!
🙂
Dillon Rau: June 22, 2025 As someone who is playing ” catchup” on Dr. Pierce’s writings, even to me it was clear that Dr. Pierce wanted no part in the wider “movement”…
…Dr. Pierce didn’t want to play ”both sides”, what a silly statement to make. In the broadcast entitled A Call to Arms- Robert Mathews, Dr. Pierce ends Mr. Mathews’ powerful speech with ”But he reminded us that we are not engaged in a debate between gentlemen. Instead we are engaged in the most desperate war we have ever fought. A war for the survival of our race. And that ultimately we cannot win it except by killing our enemies. And we can not kill our enemies without taking a chance on being killed ourselves. We needed that reminder. Bob elevated our struggle. He took us from name calling to blood letting. He cleared the air for us. In the long run that will be helpful.
—
That portion above in bold from Pierce’s quote about Mathews sounds like what “Peace President” Trump said a day or so ago about killing Israel’s enemies, except for the last sentence “we can not kill our enemies without taking a chance on being killed ourselves.” He left that part off, like he hadn’t thought the consequences of his bombing the shit out of Iran for his Jewish masters all the way through.
—
The entire film is a terrible propaganda piece attempting to bad mouth the Alliance. The Turner Diaries was used heavily as the “big bad” of the film. Even though it was never intended to be a blue print for violent revolution, and anyone who has read the novel will understand this. “Only by making our beliefs into a living faith which guides us from day to day can we maintain the moral strength to overcome the obstacles and hardships which lie ahead” – The Turner Diaries pg:9. The only time I laughed was when the film makers decided to place a copy of it next to a picture of Jesus.
—
That is sort of funny. Ondrej thinks someone in NA must have collaborated on the film because The Turner Diaries was featured in it so often that it must be “product placement” to sell the third edition of the book. That’s even funnier than placing the book next to a picture of the “King of the Jews.”
There is no pdf online of the afterword by the author of The Turner Diaries. That is found only in the recently published third edition. Here is an excerpt from the afterword. Pardon the choppy sentences:
…When the man convicted of committing the Oklahoma City bombing, Timothy McVeigh, was arrested
it was reported that he had with him an envelope containing a copy of the Declaration of Independence, a
quotation from the writings of the 17th-century English philosopher John Locke, and a photocopy of a
page from The Turner Diaries. Callers on radio talk shows would ask me, “How dare you write a book
that advocates killing innocent women and children?” Most of these people hadn’t read the book, of
course. But they had read what the controlled media said about it, including perhaps one or two carefully
selected little excerpts. I explained patiently that my book doesn’t advocate killing innocent women and
children, that it is not a book of advocacy at all, but a novel. It does, however, predict that innocent
women and children will die as a consequence of the government’s policies. I explained that I observed
the very troubling trends that were visible in the early 1970s and then wrote a fictional scenario of what
life might be like decades later if those trends continued. In my fictional scenario I saw the continued
breakdown of American society growing into increasing civil violence, or terrorism if you prefer, and
eventual civil war. I explained all of this many times, but I still encounter those who tell me, “If you
hadn’t written about these things they wouldn’t have happened.”
I guess the old idea about blaming the bearer of bad news is still valid. Back in the 1970s the hostility I
encountered was a little different. Then the hostility was based on the fact that I was predicting a bad
outcome for policies that were Politically Correct: I was thinking bad thoughts about what the media said
were good policies. Today it’s based on the fact that some of those bad thoughts are coming true. The fact
is that when a society is coming apart, everybody looks for someone to blame. The folks who generally
approve of the government’s policies will blame the government’s enemies. The folks who don’t approve
of the government’s policies will blame the government.
So today I must expect to be called a baby-killer by the people who support the government and the
status quo, not because I approve of the Oklahoma City bombing — I don’t approve of it — but because I
predicted it in a general sort of way: because I said back in 1975 that we’re headed toward civil war in
America.
The really revealing thing about the mentality of the government’s supporters is that the ones who yell
the loudest about the government’s enemies being baby-killers aren’t at all indignant about the babies that
Bill Clinton and Janet Reno burned to death in Waco, the acts that really did inspire Timothy Mcveigh.
They don’t call Bill Clinton and Janet Reno “baby-killers.” Which leads me to believe that it’s not really the
killing of innocent women and children they’re outraged about; it’s opposition to the government which upsets
them. And I suppose it’s always been that way in war: the only atrocities you really get worked up about are
those committed by the other side.
One thing that’s certain is that there will be many more atrocities committed before this war is over: not
because I said there will be, but because that’s the nature of war…
Scott actually said that The Turner Diaries is one of his favorite books, that he had read it before McVeigh had come on the scene and that he gave copies of it to others. But he added, “It is just that people like Tim McVeigh had great enthusiasm but not so much brains. A tragic waste.”
McVeigh was not stupid, nor a waste. He was not even particularly racist, but was anti-JOG for its mass murders at Waco. He was actually at Waco during the seige, selling bumper stickers off of the trunk of his car that asked, “IS YOUR CHURCH BATF APPROVED? Just because he liked Pierce’s novel doesn’t mean the OKC retribution can be blamed on the book. That is stupid. Scott would do well to purchase the new third edition to enlighten himself about why the author wrote it. Available here for $24: “The Turner Diaries (Third Edition)” at cosmotheistchurch.org
Enough chatter now about The Order movie, The Turner Diaries, the National Alliance and Dr. Pierce from mostly anonymous people who are sadly uninformed.
Dr. Robert Griffin, Dr. Pierce’s authorized biographer with his The Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds, is thoroughly informed about nearly everything associated with Pierce, his novel, Mathews, and the movie that he has watched more than once, even carefully transcribing dialog.
No offense, Ondrej, but Dr. Griffin has written the fact-filled, definitive review of The Order movie, including much more background about Pierce, The Turner Diaries, Mathews and the real group Mathews formed and led. See his review put up yesterday at theoccidentalobserver.net: A Commentary on the Movie “The Order”
The reader will be surprised by how much he learns from this review. I was.
Thanks for the link. I read Dr. Robert Griffin’s book and I am very glad that this objective book was written. The academic mainstream is dishonest towards nationalists and often distorts facts and lies. Dr. Robert Griffin is an honest and honorable man. I have also read his blog before. He is an old man now, but he is one of the candidates for an interview for Counter-currents. I am young, Pierce died before I came of age, Bob Mathews died before I was born. I can draw information for my review from the internet and from the book The Silent Brotherhood, I have no personal memories of these people and did not know them personally. I wanted to write a balanced review of the new film and mention some of the context. I am glad when someone writes a more insider review and uses their own research and memories for the review. Dr. Robert Griffin has my respect.
Ondrej Mann: June 23, 2025 Thanks for the link. I read Dr. Robert Griffin’s book and I am very glad that this objective book was written… I wanted to write a balanced review of the new film and mention some of the context. I am glad when someone writes a more insider review and uses their own research and memories for the review. Dr. Robert Griffin has my respect.
Your review is fine and quite “balanced,” compared to lies promoters of the film have said. Like you say, Dr. Griffin is an insider, much more familiar with the players portrayed in the movie and with Pierce’s novel, The Turner Diaries. Here’s what I commented under Dr. Griffin’s review at TOO to let folks know that there is a recent, expanded third edition of The Turner Diaries available at our online bookstore.
Will White Williams says: June 22, 2025 at 6:19 pm Excellent, comprehensive review of the controversial movie, Dr. Griffin. My favorite line is when you write, “As far as I can see, there were no limits to poetic license in the minds of these filmmakers.” You are being kind to those who do not deserve kindness.
From your endnotes: Andrew Macdonald (Pierce’s pen name; everyone knew Pierce wrote the book); The Turner Diaries, second edition, National Vanguard Books, 1980.
The Turner Diaries was banned on Amazon.com and other large online booksellers due to Jewish pressure put on them soon after the J6 so-called Capitol insurrection was reported in The New York Times the following day (J7!), as being inspired by the 50-year-old novel.
By the time I became Chairman of the nearly flatlined National Alliance and President of National Vanguard Books in 2014, NVB was already defunct. A deal was made with the IRS that if I would unincorporate NVB they would make the $22,000 debt owed to them by my predecessor uncollectible — an offer I could not refuse. That was seven or eight years ago.
We relaunched the NA’s publishing arm as Cosmotheist Church Books, selling the remaining inventory of the second edition of The Turner Diaries until we republished the popular novel in a new, expanded third edition in 2023. It has an extensive,14-page Afterword by the author, explaining how and why he wrote the book. It is available here: “The Turner Diaries (Third Edition)” at cosmotheistchurch.org and only in the book — no online pdf of the Afterword.
Will Williams: June 23, 2025… Ondrej, your review is fine and quite “balanced,” compared to lies promoters of the film have said. Like you say, Dr. Griffin is an insider, much more familiar with the players portrayed in the movie and with Pierce’s novel, The Turner Diaries…
—
Unfortunately, Dr. Griffin based his review on the outdated 1980 second edition of The Turner Diaries, published by long defunct National Vanguard Books.
FYI, we republished Dr. Pierce’s popular underground novel, that is featured throughout the movie, in a new, expanded third edition in 2023. It has an extensive, 14-page Afterword by the author, explaining how and why he wrote the book. It is available here: “The Turner Diaries (Third Edition)” at cosmotheistchurch.org — only in the book — no online pdf of the Afterword.
For some reason TOO closed comments under Griffin’s review less than a week after it had appeared, perhaps due to his quoting the “F”-word 26 times while transcribing disgusting, gratuitous dialog from the movie. Such is Hollywood these days.
Counter-Currents has chosen to not republish Dr. Griffin’s review, but National Vanguard considers it important and it now appears as “Robert Griffin on The Order” at nationalvanguard.org.
The best line in Griffin’s review is “As far as I can see, there were no limits to poetic license in the minds of these filmmakers.” That is the film veers from the canonical truth at multiple points and in the guise of telling the history is really just plain and pure propaganda.
This is an excellent review Ondrej. I think you are right that someone in WN circles seemed to advise them as they got some details really right. BTW: I like your use of the word artifact in the context of “props.”
Of course, Robert Griffin thinks they used his book on Pierce as a blueprint, and that is possible as well.
Here’s the thing about the movie The Order. It’s blatant propaganda, it is full of factual inaccuracies, it horribly mixes up the history, it exaggerates the violence, but this movie in the final analysis is good for us. It functions as what Greg the other day called a kind of social proof; meaning that the mainstream media takes us seriously, so seriously that they made a relatively big budget film, with big name stars and so inescapably they spread the gospel of William Pierce. Also, the movie is really well made and well-acted, it has thrilling scenes in it and is a pleasure to watch. All in all it constitutes a Victory for our side.
And I think you are also correct too that eventually RJM will become a folk hero if he already is not one. Shades of Paul Bunyan etc. His story has an almost mythological and legendary character to it right down the fiery Wagnerian ending. He held them at bay for 30 hours after all in his final redoubt, one man against many many more!
Thank you for the recognition. I’m glad you liked my review and writing style. Check out my other articles and interviews on CC. I’m sure you’ll find something interesting there. Do you know the poem by David Lane, Ode to Bob Mathews? It’s a great piece of poetry, and the band Buldok set it to music. I recommend giving it a listen.
?
Ode to Bob Mathews
It was on the eight day of December, in nineteen eighty-four,
a full moon witnessed to the deed, on the nation’s western shore
Bob Mathews made his final stand, he vowed he’d run no more,
he loaded his gun and spit in the eye, of the jews and their federal whore
The blood of Leonidas, and Custer and Stonewall, too,
ran in the veins of this White man, to their memory he was true
Two weeks before in Portland town, they’d tried to lay a snare,
thirty-five of the federal dogs, Bob Mathews whipped em there
So, they rounded up an army, of maggots and faggots and reds, race traitors and cowards and jackals, and other kinds of feds The jews had given the orders, race traitors would obey, by the hundreds they came to murder, the greatest White man of his day
They brought helicopter gunships, and their army did they deploy, tahey thought they’d break the spirit, of this fearless rebel boyBut even as they poured their fire, throught barricaded doors, his bullets whistled by the heads, of treasonous federal whores
The gunships felt his bullets first, and quickly flew away,
for thirty-six hours, a day and a half, he held the dogs at bay
With tear gas next they filled the house, twice broke inside the doors,
but rapid fire soon drove out, the devil’s federal whores
They knew they’d met their match, so they set the house on fire, and soon the flames touched the sky, a Viking funeral pyre White brother how I miss you, who can take your place,as the leader of the army, that fights to save our race ?
As you march through fair Valhalla, Asgard’s mighty hall, number one among the Vikings, I can hear you call:
“Arise you Aryan Warriors, I’ve shown you how to fight! You owe it to my children, to battle for the right.”
To battle for the right !
To battle for the right !
Ondrej: you are very welcome. Yes, I have scanned through your interviews and articles here on CC and have read several of them, I usually do that when I find a writer that I like. I particularly liked your interview with Clarissa Schnabel and of course the one with NA Leader Will Williams. And no, I had never heard of that poem, and you are correct, it is an instant classic, the legend of RJM keeps on growing!
Thank you, Ondrej, for the “Ode to Bob Mathews” by David Lane.
…The gunships felt his bullets first, and quickly flew away,
for thirty-six hours, a day and a half, he held the dogs at bay
With tear gas next they filled the house, twice broke inside the doors,
but rapid fire soon drove out, the devil’s federal whores
They knew they’d met their match, so they set the house on fire, and soon the flames touched the sky, a Viking funeral pyre
White brother how I miss you, who can take your place, as the leader of the army, that fights to save our race ?…
JOG’s goons burned the fearless man alive because he refused to surrender.
David was quite the passionate wordsmith. See his famed “88 Precepts,” penned in federal prison in 1988, here: (185) 88 Precepts – White Biocentrism
The first seven precepts give the reader an idea of where David Lane was coming from:
1.) Any religion or teaching which denies the Natural Laws of the Universe is false.
2.) Whatever People’s perception of God, or Gods, or the motive Force of the Universe might be, they can hardly deny that Nature’s Laws are the work of, and therefore the intent of, that Force.
3.) God and religion are distinct, separate, and often conflicting concepts. Nature evidences the divine plan, for the natural world is the work of the force or the intelligence men call God. Religion is the creation of mortals, therefore predestined to fallibility. Religion may preserve or destroy a People, depending on the structure given by its progenitors, the motives of its agents, and the vagaries of historical circumstances.
4.) The truest form of prayer is communion with Nature. It is not vocal. Go to a lonely spot, if possible a mountaintop, on a clear, starlit night; ponder the majesty and order of the infinite macrocosm. Then consider the intricacies of the equally infinite microcosm. Understand that you are on the one hand inconsequential beyond comprehension in the size of things, and on the other hand, you are potentially valuable beyond comprehension as a link in destiny’s chain. There you begin to understand how pride and self can co-exist with respect and reverence. There we find harmony with Nature and with harmony comes strength, peace and certainty.
5.) Secular power systems protect and promote religions which teach of an afterlife. Thus, people are taught to abandon defenses against the predators of this life.
6.) History, both secular and religious, is a fable conceived in self-serving deceit and promulgated by those who perceive benefits.
7.) Religion in its most beneficial form is the symbology of a People and their culture. A multi-racial religion destroys the senses of uniqueness, exclusivity, and value necessary to the survival of a race…
At the link read the rest of the precepts of how he’d decided our people should behave.
Douglas, thank you for your unique review of The Order movie that includes your own lament, honoring Bob’s selfless leadership, put up here a couple of days ago: “Douglas Mercer on The Order” at nationalvanguard.org
They put an end to Robert Jay Mathews, but that was only the beginning — of what, they have no idea. But all will see it true as the drama unfolds and reaches its perfect climax.
“Douglas, thank you for your unique review of The Order movie that includes your own lament, honoring Bob’s selfless leadership, put up here a couple of days ago: Douglas Mercer On The Order at nationalvanguard.org.”
You are welcome, Will. Now we have three reviews of The Order from writers who are sympathetic to our cause, the other two being the excellent ones from Ondrej Mann at CC, and from Dr. Griffin which is at TOO and NV.
The Weather Underground (2002) is a documentary on the 1960s-70s Weather Underground (what else?), an offshoot of the old Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). It’s a look into the New Left revolutionary mindset and their increasingly self-destructive tactics, going from street actions to terroristic bombings as well as transgressing the sexual mores of the time. It was all in search of the mojo which would lead to The Revolution ™.
While the Weather Underground was pretty much dismantled by law enforcement, much of the Movement’s ideology has since become dominant throughout American society. The entire “white privilege” party line likely had its origins with the SDS. In the end, the propaganda of the word was more effective than the propaganda of the deed.
Days of Rage by Bryan Burrough is a book on the Weather people and the “Forgotten Age of Revolutionary Violence.” Charles Heywood has an excellent audio review of the book at his Worthy House website.
This type of film is always made with the aim of discrediting white nationalism (WN) and portraying it as a gang of terrorists and violent criminals… We cannot expect any mainstream film to directly quote William Luther Pierce: Who Rules America? That would be extremely naïve… –Ondrej Mann, quoted for truth.
The Hollywood film industry in generally anti-White. Fact!
Put ‘Hollywood’ in NV’s searchblock and find lovely articles like this one: “Hollywood Jews: Pure Bloodlust and Hatred for White People” at nationalvanguard.org.
IN THIS video clip, we see Jewish actor Josh Radnor with a Black child actress read out “ways to find a Nazi in everyday life,” and one method was given twice, and emphasized by a pretended “correction” — and that was to simply find White people. In the context of this alleged “drama,” “finding a Nazi” essentially means finding someone to hunt and kill.
This is from Amazon’s television series Hunters, created by David Weil, who is also Jewish. David Ellender, another Jew, heads the production company for the series.
This is pure and blatant incitement to kill White men and women disguised as “entertainment.” Adding a little insincere “correction” or irony to make it plausibly deniable isn’t fooling us, Schlomo.
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