My Absurd Story: An Interview with Hendrik Möbus

Hendrik Möbus

2,826 words

Part 2 (Read Part 1 here)

Ondrej Mann: Has Black Metal in the past attempted a certain counter-reality? To build through Black Metal a new reality, aesthetics, to change the world with magic and very radical acts and politics?

Hendrik Möbus: Yes, I am convinced of that. The legitimacy of Black Metal lies in its claim to at least make an alternate reality conceivable. Unlike the thinkers of the “Frankfurt School”, I do not believe that reality can be arbitrarily deconstructed.

For everything that is removed from the realm of reality (which is determined by perception), something of equal value must be created and put in its place. Those who want to change reality must destroy it but simultaneously recreate it. And this possibility has often existed in human history; for example, the outcome of every battle has always determined what the world would look like afterward. And it would definitely have been different from what it became if a different warring party had emerged victorious. So it is far from mere mental play to envision an alternate reality. The alternate reality always exists as a “What if?” and Black Metal can provide a glimpse of it. Through art, of course; but also through the inspiration for actions that can have an immediate impact on the prevailing reality and change it. As I said, every reality is determined by perception, and if one manages to influence this perception, then one can also see the world through different eyes. The Burzum lyrics for “Inn i slottet fra droemmen” are, in my opinion, an apt description of this striving for an alternate reality in Black Metal:

“Out from the mist
Out from darkness
Out from the big shadows of the mountain
The castle of the dream…
So ends the ride
That lasted a lifetime
For the master goes (in the castle of the dream)”

Why is black metal a chthonic, telluric and Dionysian music?

Our pagan ancestors still knew that polarity is not dualism. Only with the triumph of the Abrahamic religions did a schism emerge between the Creator God and His adversary, but these opposites were united in pagan deities. Wotan is a prime example of this. As the Allfather, he rules over Asgard and Midgard, taking warriors and heroes from among humankind to Valhalla after their death, so they can defend the realm of the gods against the world’s enemies as a final reserve. Yet during the Rauhnächte at Yule, Wotan also returns to Midgard, leading the Wild Hunt to wreak havoc on Earth during the longest nights. Wotan is benevolent and wise, yet also cunning and deceitful. It is impossible to reduce him to just one aspect of his personality and appearance. Pagan gods were not one-dimensional. They created humans, and if humans, as the image of the gods, are contradictory and complex beings, then the gods must be the same. Since pagans believe in the Great Cycle, “as above so below,” and understand birth and death not as beginnings and ends but as transitions, it is entirely natural for telluric powers to have their rightful place in this mythology. However, during Christianization, these powers were literally demonized and unsuccessfully exorcised, driving them into the collective unconscious but not eradicating them.

Black Metal brings these powers back to the forefront and manifests them in word, image, and sound. Suppressing them leads to neuroses and phobias, while rehabilitating them brings healing. They are needed for transformation, to initiate change. Wotan knew that Ragnarok would not be the end. The world will perish and be reborn, but he cannot initiate this process independently. For this, he needs the world’s enemies, who in turn are unleashed by Loki, at Wotan’s behest. In a certain sense, these motifs can also be found in biblical apocalypticism, but with the Kingdom of God, an eternal state of “blessed” stagnation is promised: Death is conquered, the lamb lies beside the lion, and humanity is back in Paradise. This notion is foreign to paganism, as it does not correspond to the natural order, which is inherently cyclical.

How was your move to the US? Do you have any personal memories of Will Luther Pierce?

At the end of 1999, it became clear that I was to be sent back to prison. I was not in agreement with this and therefore looked for opportunities to flee abroad and wait for these political offenses to eventually become statute-barred. I finally chose the USA: for one, I speak English, and for another, there is freedom of speech there. I emigrated to the USA in December 1999 and first stayed on the West Coast, then on the East Coast, and finally in the Appalachians. The National Alliance had its headquarters there, and I was already acquainted with Dr. Pierce after he acquired Resistance Records and wanted to enter the music business with RAC and NSBM. He also relaunched the Resistance Magazine, for which I wrote several articles at the time. Although he personally had no interest in these subcultures and their music, Dr. Pierce understood that this was a way to reach young people and win them over to his political cause.

Dr. Pierce was a very European gentleman and thus completely different from the Americans I otherwise met, but even in Europe, he would have been an exceptional figure. He was definitely more of an academic than an activist, but nevertheless, the National Alliance was entirely tailored to him, and with his unexpected death, this organization also immediately fell apart. During my time with the National Alliance, I had many conversations with Dr. Pierce, and he proudly showed me his private library. It contained many German books from the interwar period that he had purchased from the Library of Congress, and he asked for my help in translating and republishing some of them in English. It is very unfortunate that this did not happen, and his death was truly a loss for the entire movement, which he had inspired for so long with his essays, speeches, and books.

You’re quite a well-known figure in Black Metal. What are the biggest myths about you?

In the age of the Internet and the social networks used there, it is inevitable that one will be talked about if one has achieved a certain degree of fame or notoriety in one way or another. My person polarizes, in Black Metal and beyond, and for some, I am the “Nazi” and for others a “Jew.” None of this affects me, should I even become aware of it, but it is remarkable how easily one can live rent-free in other people’s minds. What is annoying, however, and this is out of my very personal sense of honor, is the sometimes expressed insinuation that I am on the payroll of German intelligence agencies. Because the only German intelligence service I might have wanted to work for ceased its activities almost 80 years ago. And for the fact that I am supposed to be an informal employee of a German authority, the German state and its prosecutors are really far too interested in trying to put me back behind bars. I am probably the only German in this Black Metal scene who, on the one hand, has already served prison sentences for offenses related to NSBM and who is still being brought to court and convicted again on flimsy charges. You shall recognize them by their deeds, and also by their court records!

What is your relationship and how do you feel about the German band Der Tod und die Landsknechte?

Der Tod und die Landsknechte is the band of my older brother Wolf, and I am very happy and glad that he has managed to express himself artistically with this project the way he always wanted. He can be especially proud of the album Wir fürchten weder Tod noch Teufel, and rightly so!

How can one find his own’s place in this world?

By getting to know and love oneself. This naturally happens through interaction with one’s own social environment, typically one’s own family with its history, traditions, values, and principles. Through this path, one also finds their place in the world. However, it is our fate that we can rarely be truly happy in the world as it is. This world is simply too wrong, too inverted, too alien. We sense this, and it leads many to despair. But there are other worlds besides this one. Finding them, creating them, inhabiting them – this is a pursuit we should never give up.

Is there an extreme spiritual path for extreme living in modernity?

How is a “revolt against the modern world” conceivable and feasible in the present? Much of it takes place purely virtually, on social networks of the Internet, and does not go beyond posting photos and memes. The excessive use and dependency on a medium that, like no other, stands for the current epoch in postmodernity is in combination with an alleged reactionary and anti-modern attitude the ultimate oxymoron. Personally, I have no problem with not being able to live in the 18th century or even earlier, that is, in the pre-industrial age. Anyone who seriously thinks they want to do without technological achievements in energy generation, mobility, communication, medicine etc., can certainly go into the wilderness as a hermit. However, I am sure that for 99% of all people who at least pretend that this is a desirable way of life, an early and probably painful death by starvation will be the immediate consequence. There is a reason why people have long since ceased to be hunter-gatherers, and it has to do with the struggle for survival in evolution. A person who has grown up in postmodernity can no longer survive in the free and wild nature.

With all this, it should not be said that postmodernity is flawless. On the contrary, there are many reasons why the Weltschmerz (world-weariness) in this age does not cease. Materially, we may be better off than any generation before us, but morally we are corrupt and spiritually already dead. However, one must understand that there is practically no way to fight this age and violently abolish it because it is – as Kali Yuga – an unavoidable part of the cosmic cycle. Only at the end of this age does the divine transmutation from iron to gold occur, with the dawning of the new Golden Age.

Of course, I am aware – and readily admit to behaving accordingly – that the instinctive reaction to the repulsive conditions in postmodernity is to want to somehow correct these conditions – by voting for right-wing and conservative parties, for example. But the sad truth that we understandably suppress is more likely that we should follow Nietzsche’s view and “push what is falling.” As I said, I fully understand anyone who thinks there must be another way out of this spiritually dark age. I look with much sympathy at all the luminous figures who opposed the agents of Kali Yuga and were defeated and executed by them, but I myself only have the modest hope of being able to make my existence in this age as bearable as possible because I do not believe that I will experience the Golden Age in my lifetime.

How can one best realize a revolt against modern degeneration?

I have already commented on this, but in addition, I can say that it is essential to maintain a critical distance from the ruling circles and their incessant agitprop through the media, “political education,” social engineering, etc. In the GDR, we learned many things in school that, from one day to the next, no longer corresponded to the truth. This made me realize that the “official truth” is always a lie. Imagine being taught as children and adolescents that Germany in the past was occupied by “bloodthirsty fascists” who could only be driven out by the “heroic” Red Army. For a long time, I didn’t even know who these “fascists” were. They were about as real as the monster under the bed or the alien from outer space. But then I understood that they meant my own grandparents! And that was impossible for me to comprehend, because I loved my grandparents and knew they were good people. Such an insight led to the first dissonance between my own perception and state propaganda, and when it suddenly became clear after 1990 that this propaganda was just a lie, I stopped believing or trusting the state at all. Any state that exists today! Only if you make this a principle will you be able to break out of the state-mandated matrix and resist the degeneration that is willed and created by the ruling circles. This “revolt against the modern world” is primarily a defensive struggle, because every day one is occupied with avoiding the harmful and destructive influences of the Kali Yuga. To protect oneself and those you love and care about, one will need to put on armor made of common sense, traditional values, and spiritual resilience. In the Kali Yuga, we are like astronauts in space: Alone in an extremely hostile environment that can kill us at any time if we face it without protection.

What is the most extreme experience you have had in your life?

In my 48 years, I have had quite a few extreme experiences and have found myself in dangerous situations (for example, in 2019 I was attacked by two dozen Antifa thugs who also would have wanted to take my life if they got the chance), but even though I didn’t choose many of these situations, I would still not give them too much attention. It is much more important to me that I am and remain capable of at least partially realizing my vision of an alternate reality in artistic form, and in my role as a band frontman, music producer, and record label owner, I am able to do so. One day, I don’t want to be remembered for what happened to me, but for what other people have experienced and learned thanks to my creative work.

How does prison change a person?

That depends, because every person reacts differently to imprisonment. Most prisoners – and I am no exception – quickly adapt to the conditions of confinement. However, I have always made sure to question and challenge the decisions of the institution’s administration. As a result, I was seen as a troublemaker and malcontent in their eyes, but this spirit of contradiction comes from the Silesian part of my family. Deprivation of liberty is an evil, but I found even worse the fact that I was condemned to inactivity. It was impossible for me to engage and develop as my personality dictates. The conditions of imprisonment in the USA were much harsher than in Germany, and there I spent almost a year in solitary confinement – without daylight or fresh air. Without robust resilience, one can quickly come to the brink of madness, and such conditions of confinement are recognized as torture for a reason. All in all, prison did not really change me; it certainly contributed to the person I have become, but the predisposition for it was already ingrained in me.

Can one search for the numinous essence in the modern world?

In today’s world, hardly. Even the once-sacred sites have now been profaned and at best only allow us to sense the numinous. But there are other worlds than this one, as mentioned. We can create an alternate reality for ourselves, at least in a private setting, perhaps even with an idealized past and a utopian future. Anything would be better than living in a dead, dark, cold world. The Greater German Reich was the last grand design of such an alternate reality, as a synthesis of the past and the future (in the form of a reactionary modernity), in which millions of people could partake. It was a world where the solstice was celebrated as once by the pagan ancestors, while ballistic missiles from the forges of the future ascended to the heavens above. A world that was thoroughly destroyed and obliterated. And with it, any hope of living in such a world before the advent of the Golden Age was completely dashed. But that does not mean that this world is impossible! We know that it existed and still exists – now, however, only as a memory, an inkling, a promise. As an alternate reality that we may glimpse for only a brief moment – for the duration of a song, for example – but each of these moments is precious and provides solace in a world we did not choose. We must focus on these moments, on these “tears in rain,” as the replicant Roy Batty so emotionally and poignantly described them in Blade Runner, and in them, the numinous continues to live and can be preserved until the day when the Golden Age once again illuminates our souls with a radiant divine glow.