My Absurd Story
An Interview with Hendrik Möbus

2,938 words

Hendrik Möbus

Part 1

This is one of the deepest interviews about black metal, the roots of black metal and the meaning of black metal. Hendrik Möbus is a musical legend and with this interview you can enter his musical and thought world of Absurd, which he has been building for more than 30 years.

We talked about Richard Wagner, the ideal type of black metal, how black metal differs from other musical styles, the history of Absurd, the most dangerous experience, the dark German soul, myth creating in the modern world, how to find your own place in the modern world, and what is real NSBM.

This is a piece of music history that will be written about and quoted in music books and taught in universities in the future. Read, comment and enter the history of music.

Ondrej Mann: I know you are one of the founders of the NSBM genre. What did the term NSBM mean to you then and now?

Hendrik Möbus: I wouldn’t call myself the founding father of NSBM because that implies that NSBM is a new phenomenon in Black Metal. However, this is a false assumption, as the genre of Black Metal has always dealt with historical, cultural, and esoteric references to fascism and National Socialism from the very beginning. For example, Bathory’s “Under the Runes” can very well be read as a portrayal of World War II from the perspective of the Germans and their Nordic volunteer units, which also aligns with anecdotes about Quorthon from that time. The Norwegian Black Metal bands from 1992 also used the swastika or the SS Totenkopf, made racist and anti-Semitic statements in interviews, and generally believed that Black Metal was only for whites. The reaction of the international metal scene to Black Metal at that time was a general boycott of bands and their releases, which was justified by the “fascist mindset” of Black Metal musicians. NSBM – or “National Socialist Black Metal” – simply articulated in 1999 what had been present in Black Metal all along. However, and I want to emphasize this, not as a political manifesto! The term “NSBM” was first used on the compilation “The Night and The Fog: A Tribute to National Socialist Black Metal.” However, this compilation also included bands that did not address any NS themes in their songs at that time. The common idea was different: beginning in 1996, the mentioned boycott of Black Metal was slowly but surely lifted, and the music industry recognized the sales potential of Black Metal bands. Dimmu Borgir, who still wanted to “slit the throat of every colored person” in 1994, got a record deal with Nuclear Blast. More and more Black Metal bands from the early days became commercially successful and distanced themselves from the radicality of their earlier statements. So we realized that Black Metal would soon be successfully domesticated and castrated if we did not draw a red line within the scene. This red line was and is “NSBM”. The principle then and now is that it is impossible in the West to commercialize positive references to National Socialism.

Of course, the Third Reich is trivialized and marketed in the form of alleged “education,” but this always happens under the premise of “Never again!”. However, if an artist today were to speak about the good sides of Adolf Hitler, their career would be over. So we were aware that the best way to immunize Black Metal against its appropriation by the music industry was to positively reference National Socialism within this genre – even if it was just by participating in a compilation like “The Night and The Fog.” Shortly after its release, I wrote and published an essay, “National Socialist Black Metal,” in which I described “NSBM” as the inevitable culmination point in the development history of Black Metal. I am still convinced of this.

Isn’t the term NSBM obsolete today? Bands like Kroda, Nokturnal Mortum, Temnozor cannot be put in the same box as Der Stürmer, M8l8th, Adolf Kvlt. These bands play more ethnic pagan black metal and don’t deal with NS even though they also play in the deep underground, like orthodox NS bands.

The term “NSBM” is probably outdated for another reason. As I already mentioned, the idea that right-wing extremists suddenly thought of infiltrating and appropriating Black Metal is complete nonsense. Black Metal was proto-fascist from the very beginning, definitely reactionary and extremist. Practically all bands that later openly identified with “NSBM” were already founded as Black Metal bands and at that time also dealt with satanic and occult themes. So, “NSBM” has always been flesh of its own flesh, so to speak. In 1999, there was also no idea that “NSBM” had to explicitly be about Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich. Such a thing only crystallized over time with some bands, and yet, in my opinion, it would be wrong to consider only these bands as “NSBM.”

For several years now, there have been two tendencies in Black Metal, one of which has been brought into the scene from outside. This involves the leftist “guilt by association” thesis, according to which one is already a “Nazi” if one sits at the same table with another “Nazi.” In a sense, as a defense against this thesis, many Black Metal bands argue that this cannot be true because the representatives of “NSBM” – in their opinion, those bands that exclusively and offensively deal with the Third Reich and World War II in their music and lyrics – are only a small minority that one can simply avoid. Both tendencies obscure the overall picture, namely the original and still dominant character of Black Metal as an artistic expression of a counter-reality in which the pagan gods are alive and powerful, in which the Christianization of Europe never happened, and in which the Third Reich did not lose the war. Therefore, I am quite of the opinion that it must be acknowledged that Black Metal = “NSBM” and that any discussion about alleged infiltration and distinction is therefore superfluous.

How is Black Metal different from Metal in general – Death, Grind, Heavy Metal?

Musically, there are certainly more similarities than differences between the various styles and subgenres in metal, even considering the fact that by 1992 there were clearly audible differences between Scandinavian, Polish, and Greek Black Metal bands. However, Black Metal never wanted to be just another subtype of Heavy Metal. On the contrary, in 1992, all bridges between the scenes were truly burned. There were even death threats from the Black Metal scene against Death Metal bands to make them cancel their concerts in Norway. At that time, there was an accusation from Black Metal against the very first scene representatives – Venom, for example – from the 1980s, and of course also against the Death Metal bands from that era, that they never meant it seriously. They only sang about death and the devil but did not practice any of it. This was now to be changed, and it was changed – the numerous church arsons, but also violent crimes up to murder, committed from within the Black Metal scene between 1992 and 1995, are impressive testimony to a “from words to deeds” philosophy of the bands and fans active at that time.

The metal scene took very close note of this and reacted with disgust and rejection. At that time, it was absolutely possible to come to Black Metal without being interested in or enthusiastic about metal as such. That was the case with me, for example. Black Metal was extreme music for extreme people; a scene in which the line between reality and fiction blurs and can be crossed, and that is, of course, the crucial difference not only between Black Metal and metal as such but also between Black Metal and many other subcultures in the West.

Is there an ideal type in Black Metal?

For me personally, it’s simple: I place great importance on the synthesis of lyrics and music, as two sides of the same coin. If there are quality deficiencies on one side or the other, it diminishes the overall impression and I am not convinced. Of course, 30 years ago we didn’t hold ourselves to the same standards, which can be heard on our early recordings, but by now it should be a consensus in the scene that a band or solo project should only release something when they have mastered their instruments flawlessly and are also capable of expressing their thoughts in a lyrically sophisticated manner. A popular yet fundamentally false accusation against “NSBM” is that it is claimed to be inferior music, which is then “spiced up” with a swastika. In individual cases, this may be true, but overall, “NSBM” bands play at the same level as other Black Metal bands. A project like Wolfnacht, for example, is even much better than many other things released in contemporary Black Metal because Athalwolf is a perfectionist and places great importance on a flawless presentation in words, images, and sound.

Does Richard Wagner and classical music mean anything to you? Richard Wagner created the Germanic myth. Is Black Metal trying to do something similar in its ideal form?

We probably wouldn’t be having this interview if I had no interest in Richard Wagner at all, for Richard Wagner is indeed the great conjurer of Germanic archetypes in the world of art. One could say he is the one who brought them to life – in a form that makes them appear before us in reality. What the German Romantics expressed individually in paintings, poems, and songs, Wagner combined in words, images, and music, and brought to the stage. It was only through this synthesis that it became a transcendental event, a sort of divine service, and someone like Adolf Hitler recognized himself in this living world of myths and wanted to transfer it from the realm of art into reality.

This is precisely the approach taken in Black Metal: confronting this world with art as a tool and weapon to destroy and recreate it. A venture doomed to failure? Perhaps, yes. But if there is something in this world that endures death – not only the death of the individual, but also that of collectives, cultures, civilizations – and even triumphs over it, it is myth. The myth remains. If Germany ceases to exist one day, Wagner will still be there. His works might not hold the same significance in other cultures as they do for us, but instinctively, everywhere people still uphold tradition and culture, it is recognized that this is a universal and timeless work of art and cultural heritage. The myth, crystallized in music, song, stage design, and costumes. Black Metal will probably never hold this level of significance, but it is still right to hold oneself and one’s art to this standard.

How do you rate the book Lords of Chaos today? You wrote a commentary on the book the year it was published. Michael Moynihan here, unlike other left-wing authors, claims that there has been a revival of the Wotan archetype in Norway through Black Metal, and that’s what fueled the transgressions, the murders, the church burnings. How do you feel about that?

Lords of Chaos is probably the first serious attempt at a comprehensive description of Black Metal by an interested outsider, and Michael Moynihan has advocated a thesis that I also share. However, it was likely Gerhard “Kadmon” Petak who first introduced this thesis in connection with Black Metal: How the bourgeois children of a wealthy and largely secularized society, such as those found in Norway in the 1980s and 1990s, could suddenly become religious fanatics with a penchant for violence and a desire for apocalypse, cannot, in my opinion, be explained solely (or at all) by social and similar reasons. C.G. Jung’s theory of archetypes, particularly his “Wotan” essay on the rise of National Socialism in Germany, can provide a much more meaningful answer here. Unfortunately, the publisher of Lords of Chaos insisted that this book fit into its “True Crime” publications, and therefore too much emphasis is placed on various murders from within the Black Metal scene, even attempting to treat cases that have nothing to do with Black Metal in the same context. This sensationalism has harmed the book’s purpose, in my opinion. This is also evident in the fact that the rights were sold to Hollywood, resulting in a ridiculous “coming of age” film being made.

Have you noticed the so-called re-polarisation of the world, what was sacred is now profane and what was transgression is now the new normal? For example, nationalism, family, faith vs child castration, pedophilia, sex change, interracial mixing?

Our world has always been divided along fundamental differences, so it is no wonder that we are again observing an increasing polarization within society today. Certainly, there have always been phases of dialogue and compromise in between, but the binary “friend/foe” scheme is as old as humanity and will therefore continue to determine human interactions. Homo homini lupus!

However, what you are addressing is a conscious and deliberate reversal of all previously valid values. Certainly, there have been epochs in human history where, for example, different sexual morals prevailed, but certain principles, especially those biologically determined like the fact of two genders, were never up for debate. This is supposed to change now. It’s not just about implementing a transhumanist agenda; no, it’s about establishing a pseudo-reality where 2+2 = 5. We already live in a reality that is not in harmony with the natural order, but we will soon have to live in a reality that is in direct contradiction to the natural order. The idea behind this is to question empirical reality, just as O’Brien says to Winston Smith when interrogating and torturing him in the “Ministry of Love.” No one should know or be able to say what is real and what is not. No one, except for the higher authority of an unquestionable entity, determines the truth.

But even this truth is arbitrary and can change at any time. Even unconditional submission and blind obedience do not protect against thought crimes because what one believed yesterday may be false today. This way, independent thinking is trained out of people, conditioning them into a will-less subject of totalitarian rule; not as in the past, by forcing them to follow a certain ideology, but now by taking away every ideology and with it every certainty. The new totalitarianism is not characterized by a particular worldview; no, it is the denial of the assumption that the world can indeed be recognized, understood, explained as it is. This is evident, for example, in the doublethink-alike contradiction that on the one hand, a relentless identity politics is pursued that knows and allows no nuances and gray areas, but on the other hand, it is emphasized that there is no identity at all because it is only a social construct. Therefore, one can choose their own identity, even though it is not real, and be someone they are not. In such a world, it will be possible to manipulate people as brainless masses at will. That is precisely what it is all about.

Is it possible to organize a NSBM concert in Germany?

In the past, this was indeed feasible; for example, there have been concerts by Der Stürmer and Goatmoon in Germany. However, nowadays, such an undertaking is hopeless. It is often no longer even possible to organize song evenings for a handful of guests because the police intervene to prevent such events. Adding to the difficulty is the fact that it has also been made impossible for German bands to perform abroad. They receive a travel ban from the German authorities shortly before their performance. This is reminiscent of the conditions in East Germany before 1990, although at some point, unwelcome artists were expatriated. They could no longer perform in the GDR but could still perform abroad. This possibility no longer exists today because the German state wants to subject such artists to a general performance ban.

Is there a dark soul of Germanness? The Germans created and are very fond of Faust, Struwwelpeter, The Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm?

Of course, there is the “collective unconscious,” as C.G. Jung called it, among the Germans as well. The works you mentioned are unthinkable without German Romanticism, because this movement paved the way for the systematic exploration of German folklore. The Brothers Grimm were scholars who made it their task to collect, research, and preserve the fairy tales and legends from German folk traditions. This, in turn, led to great interest in pre-Christian, Germanic mythology, and the Neo-Paganism / Neo-Germanism of the 19th century would never have emerged without this groundwork.

The dark side of the Germanic / German soul is not so different from that of all related communities of race and culture. For us too, much revolves around the abysses that a person wanders along throughout their life, often coming so close that they fall into them. Doctor Faust is such a genuinely German character, “who always desires the good but creates evil.” He allies with the devil, even selling his soul in exchange for access to knowledge and understanding. In Goethe’s work, it is the “naive” and innocent Gretchen whose love for Faust could save him from eternal damnation, but she too is eventually corrupted, led to infanticide, and only finds her way back to God shortly before her death on the gallows. A redemption that Faust is denied because he undervalues the key to it – his love for Gretchen. This is a very German tragedy and, in its ambivalence, also influential for many lyrics I write for Absurd.