Counter-Currents
Typical Feminist
1,057 words
So I’m sitting in my local suburban library doing my writing thing and at a table across the room some old ladies have gathered for “Senior Crafts Hour”. One of the younger librarians appears with a box of paper and glue and scissors. They are going to do collage, or maybe they’re just going to cut things out and glue them to other things. It’s a bit depressing, to be honest, to see these women, in the last decades of their lives, ending up at a table in the back of the public library with safety scissors. But who am I to talk, I’m sitting here watching them.
When she turns sideways, I see that the young Librarian is very pregnant. She’s still here though, on the job. She’s handing out the art supplies when one of the senior women says to her, “Oh! Look at you! What’s your due date?” The Librarian, who looks about thirty, says, “I have a couple more weeks to go.” The old woman smiles and the other ladies continue chattering. They get all the art supplies distributed. The librarian sits down at the table with them to get everyone started on today’s project. When the conversation returns to the librarian’s extreme pregnancy, the same woman asks again: “So what’s your due date?”
The librarian woman answers: “I don’t like to discuss my pregnancy at work. I consider it personal and I like to keep it separate. It’s a decision that I’ve made. I would ask you to respect that.” The woman who asked doesn’t know how to respond to this unexpected rebuke. With great embarrassment she averts her eyes and then looks at the other senior ladies who, being old and wise, change the subject and expertly gloss over the awkwardness. Within seconds everyone is smiling politely again. Except me. I’m sitting there thinking, “Jesus, Librarian Lady, just tell the woman your due date!
Feminists often have an alien quality
The librarian’s rejection of normal social behavior is typical of the disaster caused by empowering women in a dozen contradictory ways. They not only reject normal gender roles, but they also push away the “generational assumptions” that go along with them. In other words don’t just be a bitch to men, be a bitch to everybody. Do your part to make America miserable.
And this poor old woman, the one whose question got batted back in her face, imagine how she feels! She’s just an ordinary suburban lady—in her late sixties, it appeared—all she wants is to share in this fundamental human event. Probably her first pregnancy was the highlight of her life. She probably remembers every detail. For those miraculous nine-months she was the center of attention, everything was focused on her. No time in her life felt so profound. And as she approached that fateful day, what did every person she met say to her? “What’s your due date?” She probably has a deep sentimental attachment to that innocuous question. And now that she’s the one asking it, it must feel bittersweet but also an affirmation of her own life experience.
But here she is, being put in her place by a millennial feminist, another “empowered” female who not only refuses to have a husband like the women of past generations, she refuses to have babies like past generations as well. She will do it her own way, with her characteristic defiance. She will exclude her elders, sow dissent, and humiliate other women for wanting to participate.
Feminists come in many shapes and sizes, but their facial expression remains the same.
Later I tried to think of what would be equivalent for a male. The best thing I came up with was the following: You’re twenty years old. You’re in the military. You’re sitting in an airport or a bus station in uniform (or with a telltale haircut or jacket). Some creaky old guy comes up to you and asks, “What division are you in?” And let’s say you’re tired and you’ve been up all night and you don’t feel like having a conversation with some old guy, which will probably be boring small talk or worse, he’ll launch into some endless story you don’t want to listen to. What do you do? Do you blow him off? Or do you tell him what division you’re in?
You tell him. That’s how healthy societies work. You share. You pass on knowledge, you include each other, you keep inter-generational channels open. You tell the old guy what it’s like to be in the army/navy/marines nowadays, and he tells you what it was like in his day. You get a bit of perspective and perhaps a break from thinking about your own momentary bullshit. He gets a glimpse into the future and a moment to reconnect to an experience that (like pregnancy) probably defined the rest of his life.
I can’t say I have always been generous with old people. I went through my punk phase. The difference was, when I was rude or obnoxious, I felt bad afterward. I knew it was wrong. The pregnant librarian is excluding this woman from her experience because she thinks it’s right. In her case her my-needs-first, feminist brainwashing has overrun her moral instincts, and her natural sense of community.
Side note: When I first got red-pilled, I got involved in the Republican party in my hometown. I ended up walking in a Fourth of July parade with some younger volunteers. I was new to mainstream politics. I didn’t really know how it worked. As we walked the route, one of the volunteers saw an old guy in the crowd with a cap bearing the name of a navy battleship. He hurried over to him, shook his hand and said: “Thank you for your service sir.” The old guy lit up. I watched this and thought: “I gotta try that.” And so I started doing it too. And not just at parades, I did it anywhere it was appropriate. “Thank you for your service.” At first it felt cheesy and fake, but I saw how happy it made the old guys. It does something to you too. It connects you. It makes you part of the whole. It helps create that whole. Which is something we need right now.
53 comments
Another day, another good read at counter currents.
Non political articles like these are great for sending to my friends who aren’t quite redpilled yet.
The problem is, after “What’s your due date?” comes the next question and the next, and within 3 minutes the poor woman is forced to discuss her most intimate bodily functions with total strangers. We are civilized white people, not a pack of monkeys. Don’t comment on someone’s pregnancy (or lack of it) unless she’s a member of your family.
I completely agree with you.
The first answer was polite and sufficiently informative, the old lady who insisted on a more specific answer.
I have three children and my wife is a housewife in none of our pregnancies someone demanded that we respond beyond end of such month.
Are you sure that you aren’t confusing Jewish behavior with feminism?
Don’t jewish behavior and femninism display intersectionality – to use the current vernacular?
Great essay.
But here she is, being put in her place by a millennial feminist, another “empowered” female who not only refuses to have a husband like the women of past generations, she refuses to have babies like past generations as well. … In her case her my-needs-first, feminist brainwashing has overrun her moral instincts, and her natural sense of community.
Anton, how do you know that this pregnant librarian is a feminist and that she refuses to have a husband? And how do you know that it is “feminist brainwashing”, rather than personal issues, that caused her behavior?
A feminist is, according to Longman Dictionary, “someone who supports the idea that women should have the same rights and opportunities as men.”
While some women (feminists as well as not-feminists) love to discuss their pregnancies in great detail with strangers, others feel that it is a private matter. It seems plausible that this librarian belongs to the latter group and felt the need to draw a line between her professional and private life.
She would probably be more open about the details of her pregnancy in a private context among friends and relatives. Anyway, it doesn’t belong to her job as a librarian to tell clients details about her private life. So I think we should respect her privacy – regardless of her view on feminism.
Later I tried to think of what would be equivalent for a male. The best thing I came up with was the following: You’re twenty years old. You’re in the military. … Some creaky old guy comes up to you and asks, “What division are you in?”
That’s a strange comparison. To ask a soldier about his division is not a question about his private life in a professional context. I guess that many young soldiers would feel more uncomfortable if older men they don’t know would start to ask them details about their private lives, for example if they have girlfriends or other relationships.
Svea, are you Swedish by any chance?
Stop being autistic. Its just common courtesy and the librarian WAS rude.
The elderly lady didn’t ask her about her marital status or if she was going to baptize/circumcise/vaccinate the baby. THAT would be nosy anf rude. Does she think her pregnancy is a CIA top secret and she’s the centre of the universe?
Give me a break!
Svea is the national personification of Sweden, so yes, you are right about my ethnicity.
And by the way, in Sweden, like in the rest of Europe, it is considered rude to tell people to “Stop being autistic” but it isn’t impolite to ask people to respect one’s privacy.
I enjoyed this essay because it is so true. I have witnessed it, had it happen to me and found that many friends are very hurt by their daughter in law’s attitude towards them. It is as if the world started with them and everything before is obsolete. One dear elderly lady in her 80’s agreed to an interview with a young reporter. My friend complained to me that the girl called her appartment ‘cute’. How ignorant can one be. Her walls were covered with original paintings by famous Canadian painters who had been her friends. Cute was not the word. Of course her report was so superficial that it was laughable. No clue.
How on earth can Svea and HungarianFashionista miss the point so badly. As a librarian supporting community by hosting a community craft night part of her job is to be proxy family for those poor souls who are cut off from the natural family and community.
Your whole community and race are your extended family and being kind and respectful to your elders are how we renew those ties that have been broken.
So a librarian at a “Senior Crafts Hour” is supposed “to be proxy family for those poor souls who are cut off from the natural family and community”?
If that is the case according to the contract, the librarian should of course try to treat these elderly people as her own parents or grandparents. But since this wasn’t mentioned in the article I have hard to believe it. Anton also assumed that the old woman who asked the question was a mother herself, and thus had a family of her own.
In my country librarians aren’t supposed to work as proxy families for poor souls, but they do sometimes assist elderly visitors at courses and social events. Of course they should be kind and respectful towards these visitors, but in a professional rather than private way.
I think the whole point of this article is that “once upon a time”, a woman’s pregnancy was a joyous occasion, marking the creation of life. Fertility was cause for celebration. Women sought the council of elder women, advice on mothering etc. Even if they were not family or close friends.
This was not so so long ago. Before the age of feminism. In fact, it was literally considered “feminine” for women to share in the joy of motherhood with other people. (You know, feminism is rooted in the word feminine).
It isn’t like a pregnancy is something you can hide, or cover up. Certainly there is a limit to how personal people should get. Perhaps questions about appetite, weight gain, morning sickness, or such less pleasant topics should be avoided. But “due date” seems very impersonal… a question that only constitutes a “pleasantry” that can be exchanged between perfect strangers as well as close family and friends.
Asking “can I touch your belly”? Is probably too much. Asking “is the baby kicking”? Is simply a gesture of saying “I hope the baby is growing and developing normally”.
I cannot for the life of me understand this SELF ALIENATION we impose upon ourselves, (Which btw, is not at all limited to women or feminists).
Once upon a time a girl by the age of 12 assisted in several childbirths and babysitted a dozen younger siblings and cousins. She knew everything that needed to be known about children. And when it was her own time to give birth, she was surrounded by her mother, sisters, cousins and girlfriends. Wise mother-in-laws stayed out of the picture and kept themselves busy with cooking and cleaning. Total strangers intruding with questions and unsolicited advice was considered very bad manners.
And what if the baby is not kicking? “Not yet, I’m only at the beginning of my second trimester, I just put on weight very quickly…” Imagine having to explain this 18 times a day. Smile and be attentive to the woman’s needs. But don’t comment and don’t ask questions.
You must be a blast at parties
” That’s how healthy societies work. You share. You pass on knowledge, you include each other, you keep inter-generational channels open. ”
Exactly ! This is what I would consider an important element in an open high-trust society. Thanks for the article.
Gloria Steinem gave a feminist award to Miss Piggy. We need to rename it Miss Piggyism because it doesnt empower intelligent women per se but masculine women. That’s my experience. For feminsism to empower women, it needs to empower femininity and women because otherwise it’s Miss Piggyism.
Anyone remember this? I don’t know if it fits in 100% with what Anton is saying, but here goes anyway:
Mondale and his running mate Geraldine Ferraro were visiting a farm in Mississippi. To introduce Ferraro to the South. An older fellow, Jim Buck Ross, age 70, white haired, who had been MS’s commissioner of agriculture for a long time, was present, and spoke a few words with Ferraro regarding agricultural crops. He then asked her,
“Can you bake a blueberry muffin?”
Ferraro replied, “I sure CAN. [emphasis on can] Can YOU? [emphasis on ‘you’]”
Grinning, Mr. Ross said, ”Down here in Mississippi the men don’t cook.” He turned to Mrs. Ferraro.
”Let me tell you something else too while we’re on the subject,” Mr. Ross said. ”Do you know in Mississippi we’ve have [sic] three Miss Americas. We have the prettiest women not just south of the Mason-Dixon line, but in the whole country.” He glanced at her, ”With the exception of New York.”
Mrs. Ferraro smiled, and was, for the moment, speechless.
(From https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/02/us/mississippi-farm-topic-does-she-bake-muffins.html)
Further commentary by Suzette Elgin in her book The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense:
In the South, in much of the Midwest, and in all of rural America, you do not do what Geraldine Ferraro did that day…in public, in front of people, you will be polite to your elders or you will rue the day.
That was back in the 80s; I guess it’s okay now, everywhere, to be rude to old people. Times have indeed changed.
The only rude person in the story is the old woman. She got a perfectly acceptable answer – “I have a couple more weeks to go” – but she pushed on for more detail, obviously with the intention to start a conversation to recount her own experiences, give unsolicited “expert” advice, and generally steal the limelight and be at the center of attention, at the expense of the pregnant woman.
Old people can be very self-centered, and they get away with it because everybody treats them like children. And when someone treats them as grown-ups, it is perceived as rudeness.
Old people can be very self-centered, and they get away with it because everybody treats them like children. And when someone treats them as grown-ups, it is perceived as rudeness.
I’d say that changes in the brain come first, producing a smaller or greater amount of senile behavior, including childishness. (In some – none, of course. They are sensible to the very end.)
So, everyone knows this, and therefore treats old people, as you say, “like children”. So what is my point? That maybe you have things reversed.
But an old person who has his brain 100% intact and behaves badly still needs a bit of traditionally respectful treatment. Way back in 1980 when I was young and working in an office, I got into some kind of a discussion not unlike what we are having here. I stated to some fellow there (maybe age 50, an outdoor manual laborer) that if old people are senseless or rude, they should be called on it and we should not make any excuses for them. Boy, did I get an earful. I kept asking why, why, why. He repeated, with much emphasis, “Because they’re OLD!”
I know it’s hard to be nice to old assholes, though.
Maybe the old lady just didn’t hear the librarian’s answer the first time. She is an old lady after all. She was probably just trying to make conversation, not be nosy. The way the
librarian responded could have been more respectful either way. She was rude.
“feminist often have an alien quality.” >>Shows picture of Shulamith Firestone(Feuerstein).
Good one!
Ladies and gentlemen. White flight is the answer. Find remote safe white communities to raise your families. Educate them of their true history and genetic inheritance. It’s ok to be white. It’s ok to prefer being around white people. You don’t have to hate other races to love your own race. We all know this. This is a love story – not a hate movement. Finally, less reading more breeding.
When I worked at the courthouse for 10+ years, I rode the elevator often with obviously-expecting ladies of all ages. If there were only a few of us in the elevator, I would smile and say, “Gee, it looks like you’re going to have a big event in your life soon, how wonderful”. I think a woman would have to be in a real nasty mood to answer, “No, it’s not wonderful’. I can’t remember anyone answering like that, most would say, “Yeah, in about 3 more weeks” or something similar. If you’re obviously pregnant, why would you not welcome other women cheering you on? It is truly a part of being in the ‘woman’s community’, and millennials who are pushing other women away are missing out on a special part of life. I feel sorry for them, but they are truly ruling their lives their way — Good luck, duckies!
Me me me me me…
That’s exactly what the librarian answered in the first round. You are so busy with your precious opinions that even your reading comprehension fails.
The equivalent of the military example would have been, “How long have you been working at this library? I used to work here as a librarian 20 years ago.”
A heavily pregnant woman thinking her needs should have priority over the needs of strangers to self-aggrandize is now “feminist brainwashing” – says an unmarried man in a lecturing tone.
Ever wondered why the mean number of children born to white women is falling below 2? For some reason women who are already mothers, and who know what motherhood is, are not too keen to repeat the experience.
For some reason women who are already mothers, and who know what motherhood is, are not too keen to repeat the experience.
Having children while married to a man is something we are just supposed to want to do, unless we are grossly unsuited for it, such as having a psychiatric history or chronic illness & pain, etc. It doesn’t matter that we are made uncomfortable or even distressed by aspects of this journey.
If as you say so many women are not pleased with motherhood and don’t want to repeat the experience, then I guess that means our civilization is quickly spiralling into oblivion. The society we live in, and the supposed widespread distress of mothers, are all of a piece. Everything else in the white world is fouled up; so there’s no reason why attitudes toward having and raising children would be any different.
I found this on the internet:
“Parenthood is the pinnacle of human development. It is the stage when we finally graduate from self-indulgence and become God’s surrogates: creating and nurturing new life. Our children represent our natural growth. They are an extension of ourselves.”
This author was talking about normal societies inhabited by normal people, of course.
Regarding asking and telling about due dates, let’s see what some professionals have to say about it. Northern Virginia Birth Services dissuades people from asking pregnant women about their due dates since this creates pressure for them:
Mindful Mamma Hypnobirthing also points out that only a few babies arrive on their due dates, and that the fixation on these dates can harm the delivery:
Their recommendation to expecting mothers is to not tell their due dates to other people:
So it seems like this librarian did exactly the right thing when she answered “I have a couple more weeks to go” instead of telling her estimated due date.
I’m so glad I don’t have to seek the advice of professionals on how to be a normal, sociable person. Lol
Surely a well-adjusted mother could refrain from fixating on her due date regardless of how many times an old lady asked about it? To suggest that babies are dying because of a simple question is absurd. Yet if they are, it’s probably a better option than being raised by such a neurotic mother.
Anyway, you know you’re desperate when you cite a place called “Mindful Mamma Hypnobirthing”.
Surely a well-adjusted mother could refrain from fixating on her due date regardless of how many times an old lady asked about it?
Exactly! And the same applies to pregnant royalties, celebrities, and politicians. Just like the librarian, they usually tell the world an approximate time for the birth instead of giving the estimated due date. Very few people blame them for not answering more detailed questions about this from journalists. The norm is evidently to respect people’s privacy on these matters.
To suggest that babies are dying because of a simple question is absurd. Yet if they are, it’s probably a better option than being raised by such a neurotic mother.
As far as I know no one has suggested that babies are dying because of a simple question. But the fixation on due dates and the pressure it creates can cause anxiety and complications, also among many women who aren’t neurotic.
Anyway, you know you’re desperate when you cite a place called “Mindful Mamma Hypnobirthing”.
There is nothing desperate in citing groups that have helped thousands of women through their pregnancies and know about the problems they experience. There are plenty of similar sites and blogs that deal with this topic – but I have not yet found a single one that contradicts it.
Here’s the gen on time of gestation:
The unborn baby spends around 38 weeks in the uterus, but the average length of pregnancy, or gestation, is counted at 40 weeks.
Pregnancy is counted from the first day of the woman’s last period, not the date of conception which generally occurs two weeks later.
Since some women are unsure of the date of their last menstruation (perhaps due to period irregularities), a baby is considered full term if its birth falls between 37 to 42 weeks of its estimated due date.
Women have been fixating all too much on the magical due date. (Not me, though. I didn’t have a clue.) Doctors with their sick in the head obstetrical industry are responsible for any anxiety women may have in these matters. There’s lots of wiggle time there for these mechanics to decide you are abnormal and to get their machinery and knives out.
Why does anyone want to preserve mechanistic (modern western) medicine? Remind me. Oh, I know – so your 3 pound fetus can be “saved” even though it may have cerebral palsy and severe disabilities for the rest of its short life. We “saved” your baby for you, Ms Jones! Here, take him! Enjoy your life! Here are some application forms for government assistance…
My mother taught me not to ask a stranger when her due date is—because she might not be pregnant!
And not just at parades, I did it anywhere it was appropriate. “Thank you for your service.” At first it felt cheesy and fake, but I saw how happy it made the old guys. It does something to you too. It connects you. It makes you part of the whole. It helps create that whole.
This is a good example of how we can connect to older generations. To show older people our appreciation for what they have done doesn’t hurt the integrity of anyone. Even the pregnant librarian would probably agree with that.
But you are also able to make similar connections in your everyday life, not at least in your local library. Greet the elderly visitors and talk with those who seem sociable.
I’m also sure that the old ladies at the “Senior Crafts Hour” would appreciate if you came over to their table and shared some kind words. The due-date-lady you felt so sorry for would probably have felt much better if you had done that with her. So don’t forget to “share” the next time!
I went Christmas shopping today, I happened to see many lonely and seemingly stressed/desperate/kind of lost elderly women. I wandered into the kind of thoughts: why those women are so seemingly out of place? Maybe they do not like to be alone, or the family they have is not enough. This generation usually had 2 children. And they did marry early. Let’s say one child at 22 and second child at 24. What happened to their other children? They spent 15-20 fertile years in marriage, where are the others? Dare I guess-aborted? Did they really spent 20 years on a pill, maybe… In the same instance I remembered how I occasionally happen to be in places where are many elderly people, ah how hungry they are for my small children…
Then I read the story, the comments… Well, a group of elderly women doing crafts in a public library, why they don’t spent time with their respective families? I surely understand, that some might be lonely due to circumstances, that do not depend on them, but majority of this generation, and especially the lonely socializing women?
And what makes the pregnant woman feminist? That she works while heavily pregnant? Maybe, but most likely it is not her choice. She is probably very, very, very tired. She is doing her job acceptably well (I would say, that she is not sleeping in the corner or weeping on the floor is good enough). Don’t you know that pregnant women get a pass for quite a lot of things. The question from the elderly lady was not polite. Maybe the best answer would be to repeat the same “few weeks left” with a smile and a raised tone kind of that you speak to people with a hearing disability, but I personally guess the pregnant one was just too tired for such games.
I don’t tell the due date to very close family members (with exception of my husband). Heh, I don’t even tell that do doctors, if that is in no way related to pregnancy: “not soon” is my answer. First-because it is really personal. Second-because it does give a lot of pressure, if a baby is “late” I will be getting phone calls and messages every 20 min “Is it there yet? Did it start?” Ok, no but I’m also nervous. And third, if you really want to look into history and how people did things earlier: no one knew their due date, the month maybe…. But not the “date”. And I really really think, that discussing such things in general was deemed to be impolite. Women earlier would hide their pregnancies as much as possible. But of course depends what era you look at, lets say those elderly women mother’s and grandmother’s era-surely.
Or it might be, that we ran into a cultural difference between Americans and Europeans. I hear in USA they shout the due date on the rooftops. Well, ok – have a photo-shot with a date, make posters, write on social media, throw a party, etc. Here-it is actually personal. Or is it only me?
Guess what. No stranger really gives a flying hoot as to when your baby is going to be born. They are trying to make conversation. So, if someone asks, be polite and brief, and leave it at that. If they persist in asking more and more questions, show a fkg sense of humor and some flexibility already and laugh it off and make a jokey response. They’ll get it. They have their own troubles.
You would think this would be self-evident for anyone.
That’s what they mean when they talk about “culture wars.”
Just secede already.
I think too much is being made of this incident. I don’t see enough evidence that this woman was a feminist, nor do I think there is a clear analogy for men. The analogy with old men asking about a soldier’s division is not apt (and not just because soldiers wear their division patches readily visible on their uniform). Being asked about one’s unit or branch of service might happen once a day, while pregnant women are bombarded with intimate questions by one and all many times every day. Having worked in retail, I can tell you that repetition can make all the difference to one’s attitude – the first time you hear a joke or a comment, it may be charming, but by the 1000th time, it is unbearable, and yet that 1000th person thinks they are uniquely clever in posing it that way.
On that note, I confess that I’ve actually felt resentment after hearing “Thank you for your service.” It’s one thing coming from an old person, or one who is clearly a veteran himself (in which case I always thank him for his service, and not in a perfunctory way). But in all honesty, after I’ve heard the remark from a thousand flabby but otherwise able-bodied young men, who appear fully capable of military service themselves, the comment comes across more like “Thank you for serving, so I don’t have to.” And I despise hearing it from corporate types in business suits. I’m not saying that’s fair, because I know it isn’t, yet it shows you what repetition will do.
I’ve deployed multiple times, and in the more patriotic areas of our country, I’ve experienced an airport send-off or welcome-home as my unit transfers flights. Volunteers from the local area form up in lines on either side, and at the beginning of such a gauntlet, one is cheery and personable, but by the end, after having told two hundred people, “Sorry, I already got a toiletry kit back there,” the soldiers’ joyous waves have become courteous nods, and maybe not even that, if they’re tired and anxious to get to the restroom before the plane boards. Again, that’s not fair, but still I can’t imagine what pregnant women must feel like in this regard.
There are also some generational differences to consider. I’m Gen X, and I’ve often noticed how Boomers feel no compunction in asking questions I feel are too personal, relating to my job prospects or salary. Heck, I’ve even been asked how many years I’ve been married right after they’ve asked how old my oldest child is. I can understand the friction, then, between Boomers and Millennials, who tend to be even more withdrawn.
It’s easy to be nostalgic about a time and place when women’s pregnancies were celebrated (and I look forward to another such time; in fact, I’ve written a whole novel about it). Today, however, so many seemingly innocuous questions are just set-ups for virtue signaling with regards to carbon footprints, sustainable this or indigenous that. Or worse yet, they’re attempts to begin the game of who suffers the most (“Oh, you’ve got cancer type X? Well, be thankful you don’t the type Y my father did.”). It’s sad, but everyone in our society is becoming harsher, more guarded, and more cynical. My hat is off to any White woman carrying a White baby in this day and age, and I won’t take offense if she won’t tell me the exact date her womb is expected to open.
Thank you for your service!
Perusing the fascinating flow of gendered comments here, I was tempted by my evil twin to opine, “Islam is right about women.”
But I thought that might be inflammatory and divisive…
So after some consideration, and the knowledge that the post is several days old, I’ll restrict myself to offering
“Its OK to be White…and male.”
Perusing the fascinating flow of gendered comments here, I was tempted by my evil twin to opine, “Islam is right about women.”
But I thought that might be inflammatory and divisive…
You do realize that sounds a bit like telling someone, “I was going to say you’re ugly, but I thought that might offend you, so I won’t”?
I don’t think anyone here disputes whether it’s okay to be male, but implying that they do that is a good way to undermine what they have to say.
Apophasis (/əˈpɒfəsɪs/; Greek: ἀπόφασις from ἀπόφημι “to say no”) is a rhetorical device wherein the speaker or writer brings up a subject by either denying it, or denying that it should be brought up. Accordingly, it can be seen as a rhetorical relative of irony. Also termed paralepsis.
So yes, I did realize it.
πίθηκος ό πίθηκος κάν χρυσα έχή σάνδαλα.
Half the commenters here are serious about the “Islam” line; half retreat behind a comfortable screen of irony or its “relatives.” Having lived spent several years in Muslim lands, I’ll leave them both to their Mohammedan fantasies.
Perusing the fascinating flow of gendered comments here, I was tempted by my evil twin to opine, “Islam is right about women.”
That you were tempted to opine that the most misogynic of the world religions “is right about women” says a lot about yourself, but nothing about women.
But I thought that might be inflammatory and divisive… So after some consideration, and the knowledge that the post is several days old, I’ll restrict myself to offering “Its OK to be White…and male.”
No one here has questioned that it is OK to be white and male. The question was rather if it is OK for a white woman to demand the same level of privacy as her male counterpart.
Absolutely! 🙂
This is a good article that successfully highlights people’s barely contained irritability caused by our post-modern existential misery. I don’t care what your generation is, what your political/philosophical views are, and how uniquely sacred and precious you think your private life is.
If you think it’s OK to be that rude on those grounds, you’re one of those useless morons that belong to the 85% deep ecologists would like to see obliterated if they could have it their way.
I am a firm believer in private/internal lives, but politely sharing your due date with a kind smile on your face, then going about your business, would not affect your private life in the least. Many of us have done it and our private lives are still intact.
I am not even sure what’s so “intimate” and “private” about this whole thing.
You’re terrified people will do the math and image you doing the dance X months ago? Please. You’re not THAT important.
What’s worse is that this pregnant moron is most likely reproducing her “moronability.”
If you want to get good at misogyny, get a female mentor.
I’m sure your daughter-in-laws adore you. What a pity they just have to move overseas with the grandchildren.
This is my favorite part: when derrière-hurt posters knee-jerk react and start making chaotic assumptions about your age, parental status, etc. so they can do their little predictable ad-hominem attacks because. One wonders how hard it could possibly be to stick to the argument.
Oh, I didn’t realize they’re moving to Putin’s Russia.
I am not even sure what’s so “intimate” and “private” about this whole thing.
What makes it private is simply that it belongs to the private, rather than the professional, sphere, and that many people want to keep it for themselves or for their inner circle.
The same goes for one’s bodily functions, medical conditions, sexual preferences, romantic relationships, religious beliefs, and sometimes political views. While some people are happy to talk about these topics with strangers in their workplace, many others save it for their private sphere, and that is usually respected.
Ultimately, it is the employer that has to decide what is appropriate, and what should be considered “rude,” in a workplace, which also applies to this local library. But it would surprise me if the staff was expected to answer such private questions from visitors.
If you think it’s OK to be that rude on those grounds, you’re one of those useless morons …
You call everyone that doesn’t share your view on this topic “useless morons,” which is a deeply offensive expression, and then blame the Hungarian Fashionista for not sticking to the arguments. If you learn to behave yourself, I’m sure you will get different reactions.
Asking about a “due date” has not been considered an indiscretion in recent history. We are not talking puritanical Victorian times here, are we?
It’s just a “small talk” question, nothing more. If you choose to read more into it, the problem is with you, not with the person asking.
Comparing it with a question about “bodily functions” is one giant, laughable straw man.
This question has always been about a child being born, a family event that can even have community connotations – not about a woman’s “bodily functions.”
Many things belong to the private sphere. That doesn’t make asking about them a gaffe.
Children belong to the private sphere, one’s health does, cooking does, etc.
The reaction in question is nothing but a manifestation of the solipsistic mind, which turns everything and everyone into an orbiter around the self. She has been trained and agitated to react like this.
There’s no spirit of accommodation, charity or credit for the other.
It’s all about the Self not being “vexed” in real or imagined ways. Pure snow-flakery.
Despite a veneer of insistence on privacy, that reaction denotes the exact opposite.
People of this kind feed on attention and self-importance.
They are the same type who fuss over the “privacy” and “sanctity” of their bodies, yet can’t stop showing it off in public or saying words like “vagina” one hundred times so that everyone can hear them how comfortable they are with their own bodies and other nonsense like this.
In fact, another poster even suggested that the old woman was going to steal the pregnant star’s wind. That says it all.
When the conversation returns to the librarian’s extreme pregnancy, the same woman asks again: “So what’s your due date?”
I wouldn’t be in the slightest bit surprised that these two women have crossed swords before – with the older having acted as the original aggressor. I get the impression that the questioner is something of a local gossip. What other questions would she have been emboldened to ask if she had remained unadmonished? “How long have you lived in your home?”; “Do you own or rent?”; “Where does your husband work?” etc, etc, etc.
Seriously, people. Mohammad Fan Boy doesn’t say that women here say that it’s not OK to be male. He says it’s not OK to be female.* Because women are dumb or petty or disagreeable or whatever.
Also, recognize the difference between an argument and an opinion. Hint: try to rephrase what you want to say without the word “I”. If it’s impossible, you might have an argument. Otherwise, it’s an opinion. (Keep it to yourself, everybody has one, no one is interested in yours.)
Also, recognize when you are being trolled.
Also, recognize that intelligent trolls are useful parts of online ecosystems. They feed on the smug and the self-righteous.
We need to get our reading comprehension back to pre-WW2 levels. Or we go extinct.
The best way to improve reading comprehension is to start reading high quality, challenging texts.
* I know, I know. You do think it’s OK to be female. Like, it’s OK to be fish. But fish shouldn’t be invited to conversations. They just splash around and make a mess of the table, without even understanding the topic of discussion.
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