Counter-Currents
Joan of Arc at the Stake, or: Feminist beta farmer finally gets her comeuppance from reeeing INCEL thot-patrollers
1,181 words
Recently, I took part in a ladies’ roundtable discussion on Red Ice Radio on the topic of whether or not nationalism is hostile to women. Five of us nationalist women made the case for over an hour that nationalism is not a hostile ideology for women. Within about a day, suddenly it seemed like women on the right were being aggressively attacked by (allegedly) right-wing men, claiming women have no place being involved in “politics.” The women who are being relentlessly bullied are those who are taking a public stand, sticking their necks out on the chopping block, in an attempt to put forward a pro-white message. And they are seemingly being cut down and demoralized by people who are supposed to be on their own team.
First of all, it seems really suspicious that the He-Man Woman-haters Club has suddenly come out in full force, often hiding behind fake names and new accounts. These are not people who stick their necks out for our cause. They are spending huge amounts of time online trying to drive women away from our movement. Are these men really nationalists? I don’t think so. Many of them are probably infiltrators. If I were the enemy and I saw the kind of momentum nationalism was suddenly gaining and saw how many beautiful young women were gaining large followings for promoting a pro-white message, I would attack those women and try to crush their spirits and enthusiasm. Anyone who attacks white women spreading a pro-white message is doing the enemy’s work.
Ten years ago, there were almost no women in pro-white circles. You had your occasional misogynistic loony who would rant and rave about women, but there just weren’t really enough women involved to take note of or to target. And the movement languished for a long time as a fringe movement filled with angry, old, white men, who were, nonetheless, mostly eager to recruit more women. Fast forward to a few years ago, and all of a sudden, there were young people, including a lot of women, jumping onto our bandwagon and spreading our message very effectively. And it seemed like overnight we had gained the critical mass and a better aesthetic to spread our message far and wide. You would think that would be a win, right? I certainly think so.
We don’t gain anything by driving new people away, whether woman or man, young or old. We wrung our hands for years about the lack of young women in the movement and now that they are finally showing up in droves, it makes no sense to discourage them or turn them away. The people we should be turning away are the ones who try to cut down their fellow white people.
It can be really discouraging to spend hours and hours every week trying to create content, diligently doing your bit to help wake up other white people, only to be confronted day after day with a Twitter feed or YouTube comments filled with nasty, hateful, critical messages from people telling you to get back in the kitchen, that you’re worthless if you don’t have babies by the time you’re 23, that you’re stupid or ugly, questioning your loyalties or motivations, or whatever. These comments can be personally hurtful or just depressing in a general sense. You probably work really hard to create your content and it is probably a labour of love more than anything profitable. You’ve probably paid a high social price for this, too, losing friends, jobs, even family members. Then, when you complain about your bad treatment, you are told to toughen up by people who justify the abuse you’ve been receiving. Of course you might start to think, is this worth it?
Yes, it is worth it. This is our movement, too, because it is our children, our race, our culture, and our future that is equally at stake. “Women don’t belong in politics” is the common refrain, or even “women don’t care about politics.” (Don’t you just love it when someone else tells you what you do or don’t care about?) Politics cares about everyone and politics is interested in everyone. When it comes to formal politics, yes, you’ll find fewer women there. But when it comes to community activism and advocacy, it is often women who are leading many of these organizations. Go join almost any volunteer organization and you’ll find they are mostly driven by women. Women are the heart and soul of this brand of politics. These issues affect us, they interest us, and we have skin in the game. We have a right, even a duty, to speak up about these issues. Nationalism cannot be a “men only” club. It must involve the whole tribe.
I’ve heard a few ladies say, both publicly and privately, that they might take a break or quit altogether. Don’t. Don’t give those bullies that much power over you. Don’t let them have a victory by driving away a valuable person such as yourself. You do more for us than they do, with their divisiveness; let them be the ones to leave if they don’t like having women around. If you cave in to them, all you’re doing is telling them that harassing women is an effective strategy and when you drop out, they’ll just move on to the next woman and do the same thing to her. Remember that the people abusing you online are not “our people.” Real nationalists support and love each other. Look to the men in your life who know you — don’t you have their support and encouragement? Those are the men who have your best interests at heart and their opinion should matter more to you than that of some anonymous troll.
So ladies, I have this to say to you:
It is not going to be easy. This is going to be a hard fight. People are going to say vicious things about you and try to shut you down. They will hate you and gnaw at your nerves until you want nothing more than to give up the fight and go home. Well, let them do their worst. Let them hurl insults and verbal abuse until their fingers are bruised from punching their keyboards, because we will not give up. We cannot give up this fight. This fight is not just about me, or you, or a handful of other women; it is about all of us in this movement. We are all Europeans and we are nationalists. We are in this fight for our people and for the future. Our cause is just, so let the devils come at us and hiss their pejorative diatribes in our faces. It will not stop us. We are here to fight, we are here to stay, and we are here to win no matter how long it takes, no matter how many enemies we ultimately need to defeat, we will meet the oncoming storm and we will prevail.
29 comments
Thanks for these articles. I was considering rejecting the whole thing but now I will stay and fight. It has really encouraged me.
I’m glad you were encouraged by it. 🙂
Well written.
From a Nordic PoV, I think this nonsense of mostly an American disease.
The Nordfront guys unapolegitically reject the “White Sharia” nonsense.
I think a key reason is that many of them have wives and families. Anglin etc are all childness and without white women. I think that plays a critical part in why the Nordfront folks rejected it out of hand. Many women are active in the movement, not just as mothers, as important as that is. They still fight alongside their men.
Overall, I think the American scene is a lot less healthy than the European one. You have a lot more freaks and psychos, to put it bluntly. But don’t let the crazies win. We need a strong movement on BOTH sides of the Atlantic.
Ditto for Australia. It’s fair enough to take someone to task for their views, but a lot of what’s emerged recently just seems like straight misogyny. This does seem to be an aspect of the American scene not found elsewhere.
Probably because (((they))) are making a strong example of the US. It’s (was? is? was? probably is) close to collapse, just as Russia was right before the Bolsheviks- having sucked it dry- took leave.
@Thulean Friend Agreed. Also Nordfront is a National Socialist organization and this misogynist white sharia shit is incompatible with National Socialism. “Nazis” on the other hand have no ideological base and just makes stuff up on the fly.
Agreed. I have a wife and kids and the whole thing seems so miguided and petty (and likely fueled by leftists). We read Norse mythology in our home, one thing that struck me is the Frigga role, and other female gods were active and important in feminine support or leading themselves in their way… Not to go to much into it, but I could see why Nordic nationalists don’t get the white shariah deal… It’s as if to say you don’t really understand women and how they can compliment society as women. My daughter and son both felt Norse mythology had something they could relate to in strong positive stories… Unlike semitic religions.
I think once you are married for a while you begin to have a more whole understanding for the differences in the sexes, and more an appreciation for women, their role, and their relative strengths.
No offense, I usually watched women nationalists discussion groups or videos and quickly changed the channel. Not because what they were saying I disagreed with, but they just don’t speak “my language”. They have feminine gesticulations, tones, references that… In a way turn me off. More like I have to suffer through it… However, I genuinely loved that they were doing it. It made me feel good that women were getting together and finding their legs in the movement. Carving out a feminine space. Didn’t bother me one bit… Was encouraging! I certainly never felt compelled to judge them as competing with men? That’s some insecure shit. Women don’t really compete against men, and when they try to excel its usually a “doing their personal best” and try to be role models to other women type of deal, not “im going to conquer this field and vanquish men!!” (Usually).
When Tara would do interviews it was kind of the perfect mix, her softness gave a path for guys to feel free to navigate into… And she didn’t try to “bump dicks” with them, to put it bluntly.
I wish she would do more of that.
Having said that, like another comment said, it’s an attack not a crtique, and thus fight back don’t take it to heart. This is the struggle.
This tasty little essay calls out the poseurs of today’s He-Man Woman-Haters and asks whether they are really part of “us,” rightist-nationalists, in the first place. It’s a good argument. I don’t believe they are mostly infiltrators or disrupters, but their efforts are definitely disruptive and their energies are misdirected. In a mirror image of the “feminist” fringe, they project their personal issues on the world at large and paint the opposite sex as the enemy.
This ambush on our women has taken me by surprise.
As I have stated previously, I think it is worth pointing out that this MGTOW misogyny is far more virulent than feminism. Feminists generally view men as innately good, but corrupted by a culture of “toxic masculinity.” The MGTOWs seem to argue that women are subversive and destructive by nature, and incorrigibly so at that.
I don’t know how many feminists you could find who actually mirror that view in reverse. Mary Daly is one, but possibly the only one.
I was sincerely hoping these MGTOWs could be assimilated without an ugly scene. I have repeatedly put up with abuse I won’t even repeat here, and taken it in stride hoping it was just a phase. This attack on prominent women crossed the line, though.
Whoah, slow down a bit. Feminists do not view men as innately good. Feminism like MGTOW has no place in white nationalism, both are equally virulent and serve the same ends of making (white)men and women enemies. The Jef Costello article on male-female relationships a few weeks back summed up the gender issues we face quite well in my estimation.
Regardless, good manners should prevail within dissident Alt-right/lite/ whatever views, no one is pure or untouched in this degenerate, decadent era(and country) we live in.
No. MGTOW is indeed far more virulent than feminism. Your dislike of feminism does not change this. If you believe feminism is antithetical to White nationalism, fair enough. I would agree, insofar as it creates mutual suspicion and distrust between White men and women. That said, feminists do believe that men are innately good, with very few exceptions.
Any sincere criticism of a person contains within it a vote of confidence that the subject of the criticism can improve. I’m not saying that feminists’ criticisms of men are valid. That is a separate matter entirely. I’m only saying that they indicate a certain minimum level of faith that men can actually change their behavior. MGTOW does not criticize women. They just lash out and dehumanize us.
I have no objection to Devlin’s theories of women’s reproductive interests and strategies. As I have said before, if there is a four-year itch, it is in our interests as women to be aware of it. That way, if a woman gets restless in her marriage around the four-year mark, she is less likely to walk away from a perfectly good husband. This is the kind of insight and rational self-discipline that MGTOW insists women do not have. They claim that women cannot be instructed or reasoned with. They will do what is right only when forced. Hence, White Sharia. This is not only insulting, it’s bizarre. Even a five-year-old responds to virtue instruction, so I don’t understand what MGTOW is talking about here.
I am not saying all of this to promote feminism. Rather, I’m trying to impress upon the men of this movement the depth of contempt and hostility the MGTOW have for women. Feminists appear agreeable and constructive by comparison. Let that sink in.
Most respectfully disagree.
Both movements span over a rather wide variety of opinions. And both sides have a tendency to focus on the most extreme expressions from their ‘enemy’ and take that as their common denominator.
And yea, there are men within MGTOW that are extreme. Men are more extreme. But there are plenty of them who shrug their shoulders in frustration and just stay away from women without making too much fuss about it. Not because of women as such, but because of their behaviour these days.
Feminism is a lot more widespread and therefore, and only therefore, potentially more toxic to the society than MGTOWs.
But I find the men’s reaction to feminism to be just as much of a problem. We do the big mistake of trying to understand it with logic and reason. That’s lethal. From that perspective feminism is beyond stupidity. But when you look upon it as an expression of a feeling (and I have come to respect women’s feelings a lot more than I used to), a feeling of frustration because men have run away from their own masculinity and just left a big void, feminism starts to make a certain degree of sense again.
Sorry,with all due respect the damage done by feminism(along with the other J-Left harnessing of so called aggrieved groups) is legion and of historical proportions compared to a bunch of immature, alienated cowards who make stupid comments in the still relatively new ‘Alt-right’. To be even fairer we don’t know if these are technically MTGOW but that too is irrelevant, for all intents and purposes that group has chosen to be a dead end by playing into the hands of our enemies.
Do you want feminism in this movement of ideas?(I don’t think you do, you have said as much in your other post). Former adherents perhaps but thats true across the board for many of us former leftists. Perhaps what the true equality between the sexes in the ethno-state will mean needs to be discussed further at some point. But that is getting ahead of things so to speak.
I can see the argument perhaps that feminism and Mgtow can be a temporary phase that a thinking and observant white man or woman can enter but they must move on from that to its antithesis. And there is a window for this that will not be open forever…
Both are toxic. Feminism is not about equality between men and women and never was.
The innate schisms between male and female are what drives life and living, similar to the combustions in an engine. We don’t want the damn engine to explode however which is whats happening thanks to feminism and the un-masculine reactionary response of women hating or
this THOT patrolling of right leaning women. We have to face the fact that many men and women of our race are irredeemable and not worth trying to save. What that actual number is yet to be determined and that is where the wiggle room to get as many people into the fold lies.
To be honest I had no idea Lauren Southern was anything other than Alt-lite so I don’t get the attacks on her and for McCarthy’s background for gods sake you can’t choose who your great grandparents are. If you don’t care for someones views or delivery or whatever, ignore them and build your own garden instead of wasting energy on resentment.
Let me clarify: Do you think feminists are more agreeable and constructive in how they appear or in actual application(that as unrepentant feminists they can contribute to WN)?
Perhaps you fear more that the MGTOW or the witch burners will drive quality white women on the fence into feminism as a counter reaction?
If so that is actually a great observation. Still if everyone in this movement of ideas cursed each other
and it all unraveled and people gave up, white survival will still be out there waiting in the balance. If one has to go it themselves alone so be it.
In general this is a frustrating episode especially after 2016’s momentum but that is life, eat the bitter.
To cap it off, feminism and being an insulting sissified asshole are bad.
I’m mainly talking about appearances, but also sentiments. When that White feminist confronted the black guy bout “manspreading” on the subway, I think she genuinely thought she could make him understand the error of his ways and kindly keep to his own seat. I’m not commenting on the merits of her complaint by the way. I’m only saying I think her actions reflect a typical liberal feminist attitude towards men. That is, they’re a little rough around the edges, but ultimately perfectible.
MGTOW does not believe women can be reasoned with in this way. If you try to have any kind of conversation with them, they’ll just tell you to go suck a dick or make your husband a sandwich or something. They think we have an irresistible instinct to create havoc to test the mettle of potential mates. They even minimize the pain of a mother who loses a son in war, because of course that undermines their narrative. These people are pure poison.
Now, I think you are talking more about the ultimate effects of feminism as opposed to MGTOW. You conclude that feminism is more dangerous. That may be true; I’m just saying that MGTOW is more vitriolic. I can’t imagine you having any luck finding even one feminist online nearly as hateful as these MGTOW.
Moreover, I do indeed think MGTOW is very dangerous, primarily because they believe women must be relentlessly abused in order to be good mother’s. There is an obvious problem here. Sons who love their mothers hate father’s who abuse them. The father must therefore teach the son to despise the mother. Moreover, women must be denied an education, which they would only use to further their destructive agenda. As a result, they would be unfit to teach their own children morals and culture. If I understand correctly, this is why pederasty was so common in Athens. It was considered salutary for the boys moral and spiritual well-being.
In the end, you wind up with an extremely misogynistic culture, like the Afghani Pashtun. The men say, “Women are for children, boys are for pleasure.” They spend their time with other men, watching little “dancing boys.”. Google bacha bazi boys.
I do think MGTOW is very ugly and dangerous, and it is a grave threat to traditional motherhood, especially the most exquisitely joyful parts, when you begin teaching your children about the good and the beautiful.
Most MGTOW do not have desire to have children. The ones that do probably do not see them usually because they are barred from them. I don’t think the Pashtun culture will result. Most of these men are obsessed with degeneracy and nihilism. They don’t care about posterity and those that did have had that taken from them.
Recently, I was researching Genghis Khan and came across some interesting information that is fitting for this excellent opinion piece. It could just be feminist propaganda, but I don’t believe it is. Females are generally better than men at building long-term, strategic alliances, etc., in my experience:
Daughters kept Khan’s empire alive
If not for the daughters of Genghis Khan, the Mongol empire probably would have crumbled sooner.
” One of the strands that fascinated Weatherford involved Khan’s female descendants in a world long ago when males dominated — at least in spoken and written histories. Khan’s four sons figured in the histories, but by many accounts the sons did little to glorify the name of their father. As Weatherford says in his new book, “The Secret History of the Mongol Queens: How the Daughters of Genghis Khan Rescued His Empire,” “Genghis Khan sired four self-indulgent sons who proved good at drinking, mediocre in fighting, and poor at everything else; yet their names live on despite the damage they did to their father’s empire.” The ruler’s seven or eight daughters (Weatherford notes that documentation is unclear about the precise number), however, possessed “superior leadership abilities” to the sons, so Khan willed “strategically important parts of his empire” to the women.” – http://www.startribune.com/daughters-kept-khan-s-empire-alive/84174122/
“His daughters played crucial roles in Khan’s diplomacy and warfare. They married the leaders of the powerful tribes and nations surrounding the Mongols such as the Ongud, Uyghurs and Oirats, becoming diplomatic shields in all directions, cementing his alliances. The daughters of Genghis Khan came to control the Silk Route and assisted his campaigns in China and Persia. The Mongol women proved adept at administrating their territory and fighting alongside men on foreign conquests.” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_History_of_the_Mongol_Queens#Part_1:_Tiger_Queens_of_the_Silk_Route_1206%E2%80%931241
“Training for Power” – https://counter-currents.com/2010/09/training-for-power/
Which corresponds nicely with my experience with female loyalty after raising two daughters and having been married for almost 25 years.
And this experience tells me women are loyal to two aspects, and two aspects only. I am not saying men are loyal to a whole set of other aspects. They’re not, but for the women, almost all of it is covered in:
1. Loyalty to family in a direct line up and down (parents and children). Maybe to a certain degree to siblings. Sorry husbands – you are not included here. And you should not be either.
2. Loyalty to masculine strength.
Kahn’s daughters are prime examples of such.
As to the contribution to White Nationalism from PhilosophiCat and her friends: I am a pragmatic here. If her intentions are honest for a better and secure future here on earth for the white folks – fine.
But I am absolutely dogmatic on another point: The most important job carried out in society, par none, is the job of being a mother, and doing a good job of it. All other jobs should in facts support this.
So in that light I consider their contribution to our cause the second best they can do.
people telling you to get back in the kitchen, that you’re worthless if you don’t have babies by the time you’re 23, that you’re stupid or ugly, questioning your loyalties or motivations, or whatever.
Just passing to say that these “slanders” seem to denigrate females specifically at first, but they’re just all-around insults.
Like, would you insult a Man telling that he has a Beard or telling that his Skin is Silky? The same way, would you insult a Woman telling that she has a Beard or telling that her Skin is Silky?
Insults are sex-derived and should be interpreted at that, not as an attack on Women.
Saying that, I’m neuter in all of that, we’ve been fighting MGTOW Women-Haters (MGTOW is just a Male version of Feminism) on the Chans for so long that I’m tired, sorry, these things started to give me high blood pressure (due to anger) and I’m 22 only.
Saying that, I watched you girls on RedIce – keep it coming, you’re doing a great work.
To a certain extent this is true but I don’t think that’s what she’s talking about. There are plenty of people who attack women in general and don’t make specific attacks to just one woman. Sure, if I call some leftists woman a “dumb whore” then it shouldn’t be construed as if I’m attacking all women. But if I say “women just need to shut the hell up and go make food in the kitchen.” Then that is an attack on all women. And I see plenty of people who make comments like that.
This wasnt attack on women in alt-right. This was attack against coalburning camwhore Southern who is not alt-right and only exploiting right wing men and Tara who came in her defense for no reason whatsoever and used feminist talking points to defend her.
I am sad to see counter-currents decided to publish this feminist article and I am deeply troubled by the collectivist response by women in alt-right. They closed ranks as if they personally were attacked. This kind of attack is something that would never work with men. I was never against women in alt-right, there is small minority of women who are capable, but this response has had me thinking.
I am against white sharia. People who advocate for white sharia it want to go back in past. I dont want that. Feminism was an understandable movement (given that women women were denied perfectly ordinary freedoms), but it took a wrong turn and ended up making it even worse. Women accepted assumptions about male world and feminists are fighting for ‘equality’ within it. Politics is men’s space. If we change alt-right movement to be more inclusive and tolerant towards women, it will destroy the movement.
Rather than that women should return to their own domain and demand to be paid and recognized for the independent ‘uneconomic’ shadow-work women have been doing and also force that men face the ineffable and learn to experience the feminine source of their own fragmented hyper-rational experience.
Men have one approach to reality and women another. Although the divisions between domains may be fluid, they are kept separate. This does not lead to conflict but to a complementarity.
I am glad to see that people are now falling back to the position that this is just about Lauren Southern. Obviously, that is untrue, but it is good to see one’s opponents in retreat.
This was first and foremost attack against Southern and McCarthy who deserved the scrutiny. Southern rationalized sex with colored person, because he was christian and Trump supporter. McCarthy was making demands for alt-right to be more inclusive and tolerant. Anyone else defending this or making similar demands deserved attacks as well.
There was some spillover, some alt-right men dont want women in politics at all and they have their reasons. I dont agree with exclusion, women have their own place within movement and they are net benefit. They should continue what they are doing. There will probably be more attacks, but the strong ones will continue and we’ll manage.
No, actually this is an across the board effort to sow division and conflict, which is clear from the fact that the pretexts have changed. For instance, these various women were being attacked for not having children. When Wife with a Purpose chimed in, she was attacked for leveraging her children for political advantage.
When someone is attacking you with a knife, you are a fool to wonder if maybe he has a point to make. He’s trying to harm you. You need to stop him, not debate him. Once I glimpse malice and dishonesty in a person, I shit from debating to shutting him down.
Sorry for late reply, got son on Thursday and its a little crazy at home. I got nothing but respect for women. I always knew and understood how hard it is to take care of home and children, but these few days when I was alone taking care of home and daughter (soon to be 2 years) have really given me perspective.
I am now very glad that this affair broke out. It made me realize WQ is even more important than JQ. And from what I’ve seen PhilosophiCat and you dont understand it. Men are builders of society and if we allow women to be equal in this domain they will destroy it. It doesnt mean they shouldnt be allowed to participate, but they need to be subordinated.
On the other hand I have also noticed there is men in this movement for whom acknowledging men’s authority isn’t good enough anymore. I have been arguing with them for several days. I got called all sorts of stuff. You are now a beta white knight cuck if you don’t demand total silence from women. In time, that won’t be enough either. You’ll have to support marriage at twelve and FGM. And this is a problem. But a much less of a problem than feminism that is now growing roots at this portal.
I know from personal experience that you like to shut down opinions that you dont like. If you want to mimic leftists by creating sort of an echo chamber of opinions you like, that is your right. This is a very eugenic movement. The good ideas and strong people will come to surface. So it doesnt matter to me what you do. But I will ask you anyway to keep open mind and dont double down on this. I know I will. The journey down the WQ rabbit hole has just begun.
It started with Lauren and Tara, but just about every single female content creator I know suddenly had a barrage of hate directed at her from men claiming to be nationalists. They didn’t all get the publicity that Lauren and Tara did, but they were attacked, nonetheless, and many left demoralised and wondering what they’d done to deserve that.
PhilosophiCat’s observation that ten years ago pro-whites circle were eager to recruit women struck a chord with me. When I first got involved as a teenager in the mid-1970’s, there weren’t many women (about 15-20%) , but there was a broad consensus that we wanted more women to join. Women were far more likely to be endlessly asked how we could attract more of them than attacked in any way. I never saw anyone telling women to go back to the kitchen or any other sort of disrespectful nonsense of this sort. I’m sure a few cranks were out there, but they kept a low profile.
The first encounter I had with this open hostility to women was on a email discussion list around 2000, but I chalked that up to the unpleasant character of the list owner, who also allowed other forms of lunacy I had never before encountered in our circles (like religious bigots) to spew their vitriol as long as they attacked women as well. Whatever the flaws of the movement were at that time (and there were plenty of them), hostility to women was not among them.
It certainly seems more more common now. No doubt much of this originates from leftist trolls, but it’s telling when you can’t distinguish the trolls from supposed white nationalists who really hold these opinions. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who acts like a leftist troll may as well be one, and I regard them as the moral equivalent of leftist trolls. Trying to drive pro-white women out of public participation is not going to cause women to do as they want; it’s just going to turn them off completely.
This seems to be part of a broader decline in the quality of the alt-right. When it was just starting to draw public attention last year, it had an intelligent and subversive quality. In under two years, it’s not only managed to replicate all the flaws of “White Nationalism 1.0” as they call it, but add in a few new ones, like open hostility to women. Nice work, guys – at this rate you’ll be irrelevant in no time.
I’m presuming it’s the Usual Suspects doing their utmost to divide. It’s laid out precisely in their usual game signature. To me there is no doubt of it. As soon as a threat appears they smear it with names to try and stop the threat growing.
See every holistic doctor speaking out against vaccines, every teacher speaking out against BS curriculums, every politician with a strong good mind.
It’s (((their))) standard routine.
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