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Robert Stark Interviews Greg Johnson on Occupy Wall Street & Third Way Economics

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Robert Stark interviews Counter-Currents/North American New Right editor Greg Johnson on Occupy Wall Street and Third Way economic alternatives. To listen, click here: 



  1. Lew
    Posted October 25, 2011 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Greg, Another great interview. Impressive in every aspect. Thanks for the tip on the Adams book.

  2. Henry
    Posted October 25, 2011 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I enjoyed your talk on Robert Stark’s program and I agree with your comment about the importance of establishing an alternative economic system, which of course means a genuine and successful system, something that has been denied us for so long.

    I’ve spent many years studying the ideas of Douglas, Kitson, Fisher, Hollis, O’Rahilly, Reeve, Gesell, et al, and so, was familiar with the subject matter under discussion: however, I was surprised not to hear you mention the name of Frederick Soddy, a great scientist whose economic ideas have been gradually seeping into the mainstream, even though he, like all alternative thinkers, was dismissed as a crank during his day.

    With regard to the writing style of Douglas, I agree it can be problematic for the modern reader but perhaps less so for a native Englishman of a certain vintage. Also, in his earlier works, I think that Douglas had the assistance of A R. Orage, an editor of some renown, and these are more accessible than some of his later works which lacked the input of Orage, who died in 1934.

    Frederick Soddy, a Nobel laureate, who coined the term ”isotope” wrote three books on money the first of which, ‘Wealth, Virtual Wealth and Debt’ is also rather difficult to read owing to its now antique (if not arcane) style, but he opens up more clearly to the reader by his second work, ‘The Role of Money.’

    You mentioned a wish to have a modern example of the ideas of C H. Douglas and I believe such things are available online, but I think you might find what you are looking for in the work of Frederick Soddy. A young American, Arian F. Nevin, has put Soddy’s brilliant system into modern English in a book titled ‘National Economy: The Way to Abundance” and I have no hesitation in recommending this work to you, along with the original books of Professor Soddy.

    See Here:

    • Greg Paulson
      Posted October 25, 2011 at 10:01 pm | Permalink


      Thanks for that link. It looks very interesting. Sounds like he is just promoting a Economic Third Position in an easily digestible and non-racial/fascist manner.

      I don’t think it is harmful at all to promote these ideas divorced from race and the Jewish Problem because the current (Jewish) global elites will only let something like that come about over their dead bodies. If people who are “converted” to some kind of economic third position keep digging they will come face to face with the Jewish problem. If they can accept what they see they will have already won more than half of the internal battle.

      I actually came to a racial understanding through the Jewish Question. First I was anti-zionist, then anti-Jewish, and only then, by observing Jewish macro behavior and debating with others did I become racial myself.

      • Andrew Hamilton
        Posted October 26, 2011 at 7:19 am | Permalink

        “I actually came to a racial understanding through the Jewish Question.”

        Me, too!

        Not Zionism, but exposure to information about the inner workings of the ADL is what triggered my curiosity about Jews. I immediately saw the enormous implications such power over discourse had for society, and how utterly alien, evil, and destructive it was. I very quickly grasped the Jewish Problem.

        That, in turn, led me to the study of race.

    • White Republican
      Posted October 26, 2011 at 2:31 am | Permalink

      It would probably be an exaggeration to say that Frederick Soddy’s economic ideas “have been gradually seeping into the mainstream,” but it is true that several contemporary economists find merit in his economic ideas, notably Herman E. Daly. Daly discusses Soddy’s work in For the Common Good as well as Beyond Growth.

      The ecologist Garrett Hardin referred to Soddy’s work in the chapter “Growth: Real and Spurious” in Living Within Limits. This chapter is the best short summary of the case against usury that I know of.

      Are Irving Fisher’s main works on financial reform 100% Money and Stamp Scrip? Would I be right to presume that the first deals with the system of fractional reserve banking and what should replace it, while the latter deals with Silvio Gesell’s financial proposals?

  3. Greg Paulson
    Posted October 25, 2011 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Good interview! There are few podcasts I listen to these days but I always listen to and enjoy Greg J’s interviews.

    Thanks for the book suggestion too, Greg. I found a very affordable copy on amazon. Even though it was only $4 I still used the Counter-Currents Amazon Affiliate link as usual. If anyone reading this hasn’t bookmarked that link yet, please do. It gives 7% of the cost on any books bought to Counter-Currents if you enter through it at no cost to you and completely anonymously. Here is the link:

    (It’s also on the top right corner of the page).

    The book Greg Johnson recommended was:

    The Law of Civilization and Decay by Brooks Adams

    I definitely agree that we need to be more dedicated to promoting an economic “Third Position/Way.” Especially in this (dark) age when economics is put at the forefront of almost every political debate. I believe that economics should always come second to race, nation, and culture, but since that is almost always a defining feature of economic third positions, it’s nothing special.

    Do more interviews! I would love to hear you and Alex Kurtagic on the same show. Maybe in some kind of special on the Sunic Journal? Just a thought.

  4. Henry
    Posted October 26, 2011 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    White Republican,

    I don’t think it is an ”exaggeration” to say that Soddy’s ideas have entered the mainstream, however, I didn’t mean to imply that institutions such as the London School of Economics or the economics department of Chicago University had seen fit to acknowledge his contribution with the establishment of a scholarship or annual prize named in his honour.

    An American professor, Eric Zenecy, writing about Soddy’s economic ideas in the April 11, 2009, edition of The New York Times had this to say in an article titled: ‘Mr Soddy’s Economical Ecology’

    ”Soddy distilled his eccentric vision into five policy prescriptions, each of which was taken at the time as evidence that his theories were unworkable: The first four were to abandon the gold standard, let international exchange rates float, use federal surpluses and deficits as macroeconomic policy tools that could counter cyclical trends, and establish bureaus of economic statistics (including a consumer price index) in order to facilitate this effort. All of these are now conventional practice.”

    ”Soddy’s fifth proposal, the only one that remains outside the bounds of conventional wisdom, was to stop banks from creating money (and debt) out of nothing. Banks do this by lending out most of their depositors’ money at interest — making loans that the borrower soon puts in a demand deposit (checking) account, where it will soon be lent out again to create more debt and demand deposits, and so on, almost ad infinitum.”


    You can read Irving Fisher’s (as of 1933) opinion of Gesell’s ‘Stamp Scrip’ here:

  5. Henry
    Posted October 26, 2011 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Greg Paulson,

    Here’s a link to a free pdf download of Soddy’s second book on economics, ‘The Role of Money’


    • Greg Paulson
      Posted October 26, 2011 at 8:09 pm | Permalink


  6. Tabu LaRaza
    Posted October 27, 2011 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Are any of you economists fans of Keynesian economics (you know, the kind we have now)?

    An Exchange Between C.H. Douglas and John Maynard Keynes
    Evidence Submitted to the MacMillan Committee of Finance and Industry. Reprinted from the Official Minutes of Evidence, 24th day, 1 May 1930

    Major Douglas gives instruction to Keynes. . .fans of Social Credit should think twice.

    Lord Keynes also dropped in to Germany (On his way home from Soviet Union) to instruct Hjalmar Schacht

  7. Posted October 29, 2011 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Great interview Greg! You should have your own radio program.

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