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Manosphere blogger and cuckold porn-monger Roosh “the Doosh” Valizadeh has fired back at his White Nationalist critics, most prominently me. His critique, however, is so weak, and the position he defends so morally vacuous, that the likely effect will be to dry up whatever support remains for him on the Alternative Right. And as for the people who are dumb and/or nihilistic enough to embrace his position: they are of no use to us anyway, so he’s welcome to them.
Roosh’s argument is basically to clutch his pearls and declare that he is shocked — shocked! — that the Alt Right is full of racist, illiberal meanies who would put limits on sexual freedom by prohibiting interracial sex and breeding:
The alt right has begun doing what they wanted to do all along: control the sexual choices of men. The following two conditions must now be met if you are to be accepted into their e-movement:
- If you’re a white male, you’re forbidden to sleep with a non-white girl, because that is “race mixing” and goes against their race platform, even though the white race was certainly produced as a result of pre-historic race mixing.
- If you’re a non-white male, you’re not allowed to sleep with a white girl, because you’re a nigger/kebab/gook, and you must be deported from the country you happen to be a citizen of or outright killed.
Roosh’s moral axiom here is that there should be no limits on sexual choices. (Although homosexuality is bad, because that provides him with a convenient ad hominem.) Roosh does, however, offer a novel version of pearl-clutching liberal indignation, for instead of arguing that proposing limits on sexual behavior makes White Nationalists “no better than Hitler,” he argues that we’re really no better than feminists:
The alt right has gone from a possible political alternative to a frustrated mob that wants to control the sexual choices of all men. With whom have we encountered that before?
Feminism.
One of the virtues of the “Alt Right” label is its vagueness, which allows people to signal dissent from the conservative mainstream without avowing anything too specific. Roosh is exploiting this ambiguity. But surely it is no news to him that the Alt Right is filled with people who are both racist and anti-liberal and who would gladly ban interracial sex and remove all non-whites from our homelands. Although I can’t speak for Roosh’s Alt Right defenders, Richard Spencer and RamZpaul, I would be quite surprised if they oppose putting any limits on interracial sexual relations either.
The purpose of White Nationalism is first to save our race from the looming threat of biological extinction and then to create healthy social orders in which our people can flourish. To do that, we need to create homogeneously white homelands, which by their very nature limit sexual choices to members of our own race. Beyond that, White Nationalists have to stand for the restoration of biologically based and traditionally hallowed sexual norms: heterosexual marriage, the nuclear family, the single-breadwinner household, men as protectors and providers, and women as wives and mothers. And beyond that, a well-ordered white society should recognize that every regime encourages either eugenic or dysgenic breeding patterns, thus we must institute eugenic incentives.
None of these measures are consistent with sexual liberalism, libertarianism, or libertinism. But we are not liberals. We believe that people today are miserable because they are free. Civilization is founded upon laws, including sexual norms. Therefore, there is nothing Right-wing at all about Roosh and his lost boys who whine like spoiled children at the very idea of putting limits on their sexual choices and behavior.
If this is what the manosphere stands for, then it is really no different from another social movement that seeks to maximize the same sort of infantile and immiserating freedom without responsibility, while undermining the foundations of civilization itself. I am speaking, of course, of feminism. The manosphere and feminism are cut from the same cloth. They only oppose each other like two rival tribes of barbarians fighting over the spoils of a fallen civilization.
The feminists, however, are right about Roosh. If a woman is too young, dumb, or drunk to have consented to sex, then she was raped. The fact that this is treated as debatable proves what an airless basement — what a cultish echo-chamber — Return of Kings really is. Either Roosh has admitted to raping a drunk woman in Iceland, or he is a fraud who passed off a rape story with a happy ending as fact. In either case, he can plausibly be branded a rape advocate, since he is in the business of advising young men how to get sex. Roosh has not refuted this argument. He has simply dodged, weaved, and waved his hairy palms.
As Andrew Anglin astutely observed, Roosh sells interracial cuckold porn — and tweets about cuckolding white men — to legions of adoring White Nationalist followers. I don’t know what’s worse: the obscenity of this situation or the absurdity. But it needs to end. Now that Roosh has declared “I can no longer support the alt right,” it is time for the Alt Right to return the favor.
42 Comments
If I may nibble at a bit of Roosh’s bait, I’d say that it’s humorous that he frames his position based on sexual choices. Last I checked the feminist left was all about sexual freedom and choice for its girls. He either doesn’t see, or is lying about not seeing that all the PUA cad is doing is aiding in the strong, independent woman’s liberation by tricking her into consenting to his sexual advances. All the while he’s meekly crying out that the Alt Right are acting like SJW’s for trying to defend his precious “sluts” from their FrankenSteinem’s monster: The nu-male who has abdicated his responsibility to protecting his women.
(FrankenSteinem’s monster – kek and a half.)
Ahem. This seems to be correct.
1) If, Feminism makes sense as sexual Marxism, with individual women claiming to represent Women and Women’s Interests (like a Union) and profiting off of conflict they can generate…
2) Then, Roosh is a scavenger, living off the remains of such conflicts. He admits it, aspires to nothing better and can’t find himself.
3) So, Roosh is sniffing after carcasses and dumpster fires as feminism destroys the sexual marketplace… instead of learning to farm. (It does explain the hobo beard.)
4) And, All of his current talk about organizing is like 1930’s hobos making a secret language, learning to hop into unsecured boxcars for a ride and mark the houses of rubes.
We should look forward to his PUA Hooverville as a fertile recruiting ground. http://imgur.com/4sChiH6
“How dare Alt-Righters try to limit the sexual choices of white men and white women to partners within their own race!”
In other words, the Roosh side of the Manosphere is just another bastion of egalitarianism and multiculturalism. A fake-tough mirror image of blue-haired feminist crows and their beta orbiters.
I happened across Roosh’s piece on the TRS forum. I was really surprised by how much of a non-argument it was against the “altRight.”
As you pointed out, isn’t it the case that what Roosh is arguing for is complete sexual freedom? *cough* feminism *cough*
Me too. Apart from everything else Roosh is just… dumb.
Thank you Greg, for putting this mendacious camel-faced NEC
http://lynnfraud.blogspot.com/2015/12/separated-at-birth.html
in his place.
It’s time to cut the cord, so to speak, with the whole degenerate PUA community and their juvenile “poolside for pussy” worldview.
I would have no problem with non-white allies as long as they abide by a few rules. 1) No sleeping with white women, preferably they sleep with women of their own race. 2.) They don’t demonize whites while advocating for the separation of races into their own nations.
A true black nationalists for instance would make a perfect ally for white nationalists since we both want the same thing essentially. They want a country just for blacks and we want a country just for whites. We would just have to agree on what land should be ours and what land should be theirs. Unfortunately I don’t know many true black nationalists, instead most that call themselves that just hate whitey while wanting to take over the civilizations we built.
But a lot of non-whites who try to ally with us it seems are self-haters who just want to sleep with white women. That’s not going to work. I don’t respect whites who hate their own race and I don’t respect non-whites who hate their own race either. Roosh doesn’t know what he is. He’s a confused half-breed without any strong racial identity. Roosh himself is an example of why miscegenation is bad. Ironically he seems to identify more with his mother than with his father. I get the idea that his father wasn’t very involved in his life by the fact that he rarely talks about him and adopted the religion of his mother instead. Maybe that is why he is so lost.
Roosh is a moral degenerate .Thus even if he was a full blooded White his opinions on what’d best for White people don’t matter much to me.
Someone who isn’t pushing for stable marriages with many White children or isn’t at least working to that end in their own life doesn’t have the best needs of Whites in mind.
I do have one quibble with the article. Whites need more clans, tribes and extended families not just more nuclear families.
There is nothing wrong with the nuclear family per se but our elite went for it because its the smallest weakest most easily controlled functional system. It works but having many kin close at hand and pooling resources is better for our kind than atomization.
Unfortunately I think we are going to need to cleanse and burn large elements of the “manosphere” from the alt-right. All fringe movements (as we remain at the moment, though that is swiftly changing) are going to attract disaffected and damaged people. In this case it’s young men who are angry, and who are being told to direct their anger and contempt at “sluts” by the likes of Roosh.
It’s our job to focus that anger at our real enemies, and to channel it towards productive prosocial beahviour and away from the destructive nihilism peddled by this furry little fellow.
Malachi Martin, in his highly readable (and non-sensationalistic) ‘Three Popes and the Cardinal’, writes that the notions of personhood and the nuclear family were the two major social innovations of Christianity:
‘The second fundamentally and peculiarly Christian contribution was the transmutation of the Roman word familia. In its Christian sense, it meant the nuclear family as we understand it today: a man, his wife and their children. Again, neither in Greco-Roman nor in Christian Jewish thought was there ever a word for or a clear concept of the nuclear family. This was a Christian concept and it brought the Roman term familia to mean just that.” pg. 81
His destruction is a good thing for the alt-right. This mentality breeds weakness, not strength. How can you create a strong united culture if you have to worry about guys like this trying to fuck your wife/daughter/goat? He has to go. The manosphere followers need to wake up and think about this.
Their lifestyle is fleeting and purposeless. It will not last and they will be left behind as we pursue a new age, built on strong character foundations.
I see prolonged exposure to the right sort of stuff has influenced your meme game.
Indeed
I can ally with a non-white who sleeps with White women as long as he supports our right to form communities that could restrict him from living there.
I cannot ally with a race-mixing non-White, simply for the fact that the product of such a union is a non-White child. If our priorities are to establish a secure space for our people and a future for our children, it is patently obvious that joining forces with those who directly undermine those principles are a problem.
Roosh is an opportunistic media whore in the business of penning cuckold pornography. He is basically the non-White, male version of a crayon-haired harpy trying to disrupt a Milo event. It’s not a good look, nor a desirable alliance.
I find nearly anything Roosh writes to be… I’ll say cringy. I’ve taken this from a random entry and say now its… ugly, vile… just, Rooshee.
http://i.imgur.com/dXL1hfi.png
I appreciate that he talks about some red pilled topics, but… augh.
The woman-hating pickup artists and the man-hating femiNUTS are two sides of the same coin.
Doosh is a rapidly aging lothario who will someday die alone, childless and unloved. Just like his feminist counterparts.
I can’t picture our ancestors relying on the permission or support from racial enemies for asserting their will to power… If racial outsiders, be they Arabs or Jews, wish to support our cause, they will have to do so on our terms. White nationalist need to stop being so thrilled over any words of support from racial outsiders… Apparently nationalists believe the Other has supernatural powers, so that one Jew or Arab in “our cause” is worth a thousand whites. Stop being so superstitious and subservient, and cultivate some self-reliance!
well said, we have to stop caring about whether Islam does this or that or whether that’s liberal or old right, we should simply do whats good for our survival and prosperity and modify morality to our advantage.
If we have to destroy the present moral landscape in order to survive we will do it because out of our new white civilization a better set of morals will arise.
If I have to fight against god himself I will do it, if that means the restoration of beauty in this world (beauty being the only thing that makes existence worthwhile, not morality or religion!)
1. The man who has described his sexual morality as “Islam-lite” thinks we’re too controlling
2. Shiksa Goddess is controlling us all… or something
3. It’s our women’s fault for miscegenating… While true I thought the complaint was that we were restricting men? Frankly a white man’s dating options for outside the race are a lot better, so I think we’re making a sacrifice. Because, how can we get mad at Tyrone it we poach Ayane?
Mr. Johnson,
The “movement” is too tiny at this point to drive away a Roosh on ethnic grounds, and as a casual reader of some of his writings I believe he is: (a) drifting in the alt-right direction, and (b) stepping slowly away from his racy past. In the process he opens up his followers to consideration of your ideas.
I’m old enough to remember the days when the academic community unanimously considered Armenians and Persians to be Caucasian, in the days before the Census Bureau invented the term “Hispanic”. To paraphrase Donald Trump, “leave him alone, he’s one of us”.
Roosh may be Caucasian, but he himself claims he is not white, not “one of us.” Non-European Caucasians have their own homelands, where they exist in vast numbers. Europeans, however, are under demographic siege. Therefore, we most certainly should not be importing and mixing with such people.
Roosh himself has rejected the Alt Right. He stands for nothing but sexual freedom, including miscegenation. It is a form of freedom without responsibility that is essentially no different from the feminism he attacks.
He is either a rapist or a fraud, and certainly a promoter of rape against white women. After Rotherham, Cologne, and countless other rapes committed by his fellow non-European Caucasians, it is absurd and obscene to pretend that someone like Roosh is a friend or ally. You need to get serious.
Brilliant post, Greg.
In a past comment I wrote:
“My personal position is pacific coexistence with sites like Return of Kings, and at the same time we have to make an effort to, in a very subtle way, attract the audience of these sites to Counter Currents, Radix et al.”
Now I have to reconsider this position because this sandnigger is showing his true colors, thus reaffirming a universal truth:
Even if a non white is Jew-wise and against feminism and multiculturalism, in the end he will be always against securing the existence of our people and a future for white children because hes is not white.
A better position would be: who cares about such pathetic websites and why even give them the dignity of mentioning them? There are thousands of more interesting things to focus on.
I have posted this comment below at RoK. I think he really has harmed himself, as I have no doubt that the majority of his readers are young white guys. He made it look as if it was finally all about “I just want unlimited access to White women”, which will piss off many. Also, his attempts at “neo-masculine” manifestos are losing their credibility. He now must face the inner contradictions that have accumulated at his website.
+++
Roosh, watch out not to shoot yourself into the foot. I’ll bet a million that the vast majority of your readers and fans is white and lately you won many of them by supporting pro-white and right-wing stuff at RoK. Actually I think most them accepted you as white or honorary-white. Even from a libertinage p.o.v. you should take an interest in the future of “White Societies”, as the freedom you enjoy is only possible in them and was made possible by them. How much this freedom has gone too far and is destroying them by now is a totally legitimate question.
I had the impression that you where beginning to understand this, with the help of your friend Quintus Curtius, whose approach is far more consistent. As you said yourself in your neo-masculine manifesto, which aimed to provide an “antidote for males who are being programmed to accept Western degeneracy, mindless consumerism, and immoral state authority.”
It seems that you haven’t quite understood what “Western degeneracy” actually consists of. Or how much the “consumerism” mentality also applies to the sexual market. You want to have your cake and eat it.
That is understandable to some degree, and many young guys who come here have yet to undergo the rite of passage of learning and understanding “Game” (which leads to experience of Red Pill issues), yet there is a bigger picture which still leaves many questions open. This attack against your WN and other critics is a huge step backwards…
This Persian wants personal pleasure, to do what he wants, pursuing his wine, women and song, driven by selfish, immature and short-sighted whims. White nationalism is about far higher aims, the survival of European man and his civilization. Its a movement connected deep into the past and to the future, to God and spirituality and nature. This Iranian’s complaint about the movement reminds one of a dog baying at the moon, unable to understand the nature of a celestial body that is so far above a butt-sniffing creature that cant think further than the next rut and meal.
Perhaps he is an ally against certain enemies of European man, but as a non-European teaching other non-European men to target European women, he is an enemy as well. He may be helpful in some sense and harming us elsewhere.
Excellent move taking the bulls by the horns Greg.
Imagine 40years ago when the global warning narrative was first beginning to be peddled that a communist came in and supported global warming. Would those global warming advocates in turn go to the defense of communism like some have done for Roosh?
The Roosh saga is a growing pain for some and I expect they probably recognise it now.
Feminism and the manosphere are just two sides of the same coin: The both preach sterility through “free love”, and the debasement of the opposite sex
Truth be told, the “alliance” was doomed from the start – and subconsciously, we had to have all known. The Man-o-Sphere, being as how it’s led by a non-White, encourages “brotherhood” between men of all races; whereas the Alt-Right endorses nationalistic Idenitarianism.
I continuously see tweets from Man-o-Sphere types that the Alt-Right’s “crazy” and “stupid” for attacking such a “natural ally.” How exactly a non-White, who lives and freely migrates around Europe, who sleeps with White women, and writes books about it – which instructs other non-White men to do the same – is a “natural ally” for White people I don’t know. Our concern, as WN, isn’t for our sex, per se, but our race. The Alt-Right recognizes, or should, that men and women belonging to the same race have more in common with each other than to men or women of another race – something both Feminism and the Man-o-Sphere fails to grasp – therefore it’s not within White men’s – or women’s – interest to have members of their race procreating with members of another. In other words, the White race cannot be preserved and expressed through the loins of Iranian men or the wombs of Filipino women.
To make a long story short, Roosh enjoys, and makes a living, off of sleeping with White women, and likely has no intentions of stopping – which is exactly what Nationalism and Identitarianism would have him do. Sure he’ll occasionally throw out a, “Bang a Persian girl”, or, “Bang the Philippines” – though he oddly avoids conferences and tours in those parts of the world; I wonder how Persian and Filipino men would respond to books instructing foreigners on how to bang their women? – but the entire point of ROK, as well Roosh’s “Bang” books, has always been to get men – specifically non-White men; specifically Roosh – to sleep with White women.
The irony is that Dr. Johnson, as many on the Alt-Right, actually, sincerely but naively, believed that an alliance could be reached; and for a while it appeared the Man-o-sphere thought the same. The problem with forming alliances is that it can only be done if the two parties/movements are already predisposed to the same goals. The fact is the Man-o-Sphere and the Alt-Right were never truly advocating on behalf and advancing the same things – or even close really. Yes, the Man-o-Sphere attacked loud, foul-mouthed feminists – who objected to their having sex with women without feeling guilty about it. Yes, the Man-o-Sphere talked about religion, traditionalism and Zionism – without letting it distract them from what’s really important: pussy. And yes, the Man-o-Sphere occasionally, mildly, talked about race – yes, racial differences are real, but let’s not actually do anything about it, or make a big deal about it; certainly not form national identities and citizenship policies around it.
While you don’t have to be in complete lockstep; you can disagree on the rather unimportant issues, but you must be in total agreement on the important ones. Someone who doesn’t condone race-mixing and racial diversity can never be a “natural ally” with someone who does – even if they find agreement on other issues via legalization of marijuana, taxes, electric cars, etc. i.e. the less important issues – otherwise, you’re forming an alliance with someone you’ll perpetually have grievance and antipathy with – can that even be considered an “alliance”? – for you’ll never agree on the issues that really matter; that truly have consequences.
The matter is not so simple. ‘Libertines’ have always been willing to speak unpleasant truths and their pursuit of hedonism and luxury might appear, in a certain light, ‘aristocratic’. In the past, they usually were aristocrats. Often, they avoid politics and attack instead the empty moralism and duplicity of their more optimistic contemporaries. Thus libertines and the far-right are not natural enemies ‘in the wild’.
The matter has been confused a bit, because the pop culture is so incredibly hedonistic but our real lives are both anhedonic and sterile, and I’m guessing that these pick-up-artist figures are just promising to deliver some measure part of the Good Life that the advertisers had promised in exchange for jettisoning our entire heritage. I doubt that the man-o-sphere is doing a damn thing one way or another to destroy our society – except that it is prolonging the state of denial in which young European men have been raised.
One might argue that the perfect example of libertinage was De Sade, a man who essentially abducted – and abused and tortured – young women leading to his imprisonment and whose oeuvre strives to eroticise any and every aberration including child rape. There is absolutely nothing noble about the man. Any aristocratic worthy of our admiration behaved or behaves in a manner to earn his or her rank.
One thing I find interesting is how whenever Counter Currents has an article on the War between the Sexes the comment count goes through the roof.
There is something so pathetic and embarrassing with this Persians, they always claim there are some form of superior race among the non-white Orientals which is not true at all. If you get to know them or experience them closely they are like any other Arab or non-white oriental. They are loud, narcissistic disturbed. Have that typical animalistic violent oriental macho behavior, always offended, and are over represented in crime, violence and welfare addiction in Western Europe. They are like any other asylum demanders and non-white invaders. They are Somalis which some of them happened to made it through dental school, that´s all.
” even though the white race was certainly produced as a result of pre-historic race mixing.” I have never seen any proof/evidence of this. First time to your site brother. Can you elaborate? Other than that I enjoyed the article.
It is nonsense. As for the source, you’d have to put that question to Roosh, friend.
I suppose you could say that all living races are the result of interbreeding between different races if you go back far enough. Such a scenario is at least certain with most Whites, if not all humans. Europeans are, after all, part Neanderthal. That said, it doesn’t weaken our argument one iota. What we are is still worth preserving (and enhancing via eugenics).
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/
wow, where was my head at…if i had only noticed the indentations and bullets that showed it came from Roosh….sorry brother.
We need white nationalism in Europe and white enclaves in the colonized lands, yet we cannot accomplish this before we defend the honor of our Fascist Martyrs.
You are kidding, right?
It seems that there was a nice blossoming period of the online Dissident Right (or whatever you want to call it) where all its various strains informed and complemented each other.
It’s a sign of maturation though that the fault lines between the various strains are becoming clear, and it’s no great loss to part ways with the manosphere’s bullshit color blindnesss, its nihilism, and its libertine posing.
The benefit of parting ways is in not having to apologize for their bullshit any longer, but even better than that there’s an opportunity here: I look forward to seeing the development of a WN perspective on the relations between white men and white women which is positive and healthy for white people.
I know plenty of pro-Aryan Persian and partial/middle eastern types that have an affinity with the Western ideal – the fact that Roosh is Persian has nothing to do with his semitic inspired, judaic, misogynist and anti-traditionalist worldview. his biology is not the problem, its his thinking. he is a product of modernity, even though he purports to be a rebellion against liberal/feminist thinking, i see him as the opposite side of the same coin, in the same way christianity and communism seem to be antithetical superficially but in reality are ideological cousins.