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In what may be the dumbest sex strike in history, American feminists who are aghast that Donald Trump won the election are throwing another collective vaginal tantrum.
Eight years ago, these types showed up en masse in D.C. the day after Trump’s inauguration wearing “pink pussyhats” to “reclaim” the word “pussy.” They’d somehow fallen under the impression that Trump had “grabbed” the word from them.
This year, they’re coopting a South Korean feminist movement known as “4B” or “Four Nos”. It got its name from the Korean word bi, which is pronounced “bee” and means “no.” Here are the four Bs:
- Bihon = no marriage
- Bichulsan = no childbirth
- Biyeonae = no dating men
- Bisekseu = no sex with men
Like an unfertilized egg plopping out stillborn from a shriveled ovary, South Korea’s 4B movement was hatched sometime in the late 2010s. Advocates claimed it was a reaction to the nation’s stiflingly patriarchal climate.
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Patriarchal? Unlike most despotic patriarchies, South Korea wasn’t chaining women into basements and forcing them to become brood sows. The country’s birthrate had already dipped below the replacement level of 2.1 li’l kimchee sprouts per handmaid in the early 1980s. As of 2023, the rate had plummeted to .72 children per woman—the world’s lowest. As an exceedingly literal-minded man, I’m not sure how it’s possible for a Korean woman to have only 72% of a child. Is this because Koreans, both in baby and adult form, aren’t very large?
But since the Republic of Korea’s birthrate started dropping about 35 years before “4B” kicked off around 2017, and since the movement’s membership is estimated to be around 500-4,000 women in a country of at least 26 million broads, there must be other reasons for the meager birthrates, yes?
One reason is the fact that most South Korean women are in the labor force—“labor” as in “wage work” rather than “going into labor with child.” Just as in America, it’s become increasingly difficult for a one-income family to raise kids. It ain’t easy to raise a family in an economy where both parents have to work. Maybe feminism wasn’t merely—or even primarily—a way to wreck the nuclear family or to “empower” women. Maybe it was also a sly scheme for driving down wages—just like immigration. Unlike the USA, though, South Korea has kept a tight lid on immigration.
But why has “4B” suddenly emerged in the American news cycle right after Trump won the election?
The earliest hint I could find that it was related to Trump’s reelection came on Election Eve. As it started becoming apparent that Trump would win, someone posted on X:
Ladies, we need to start considering the 4B movement like the women in South Korea and give America a severely sharp birth rate decline:
– no marriage
– no childbirth
– no dating men
– no sex with men
We can’t let these men have the last laugh… we need to bite back
Bite back? Who bit you, ladies? The election had nothing to do with abortion. Roe v. Wade had been overturned and tossed back to the states in 2022. It’s not a federal issue. This was not a referendum on baby murder.
In early October, Trump said he’d veto a federal abortion ban. He claimed his stance has always been to “make exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother,” so these wounded vadges are barking into the void over nothing.
Women withholding sex from men to score political points has a long history. Perhaps the most famous, and oldest, example is fictional. In Aristophanes’ play Lysistrata, which was first performed around 2,500 years ago, the women of Athens, beleaguered and sorely vexed by the ongoing war with Sparta, conspire to withhold sex from their husbands until the men get so unbearably horny that they relent and declare peace. To drive their hapless spouses mad with desire, these little Athenian teases tart themselves up like cheap strumpets strolling the agora looking for johns.
But the Athenian women, being mammals just like their hubbies, also start getting unreasonably lustful and start craving their husbands’ hairy, olive-oil-scented bodies—so much so that they consider abandoning their project. Despite what had already happened in real life with Sappho and her sinister dyke coven out on the Isle of Lesbos, there existed the very traditional idea that women want to have sex with men just like men want to have sex with women.
But Lysistrata reprimands the women, and they restrain themselves from breaking their pact. The men eventually surrender. Peace and unhindered fornication reign throughout the land once more.
Real-life sex strikes came to be known as “Lysistratic nonaction.” In the 1600s, Iroquois squaws allegedly “boycotted lovemaking and childbearing,” eventually forcing their men to stop warring with other Injun tribes. When the braves gave up fightin’, the squaws started givin’ “it” up again.
In the early 1900s, suffragettes in both England and the USA were said to have used “sex strikes and birth strikes” to gain the right to vote. Around the same time, female temperance groups agitating for Prohibition used the threat “LIPS THAT TOUCH LIQUOR SHALL NEVER TOUCH OURS” to force men into swearing off the hooch. Judging from the women in that photo, though, it’s surprising they didn’t cause more men to drink.
In Kenya in 2009, a weeklong sex strike forced the government’s hand, and the ladies’ demands were met. A week. That’s all it took. Seeing as how this was in Africa, it’s a miracle that the men didn’t just rape the women.
But unlike Lysistrata and all other sex strikes, these odd 4B creatures are purposely trying to make themselves unattractive. In America, many 4B’ers have taken to shaving their heads. Others are vowing to forsake makeup.
Some, as cruel as it sounds, are threatening to stop using skin-smoothing filters on TikTok.
4B seeks to make women ugly. It comes from that strain of misandrist feminism that frames being sexually appealing to men as a sinister patriarchal ploy rather than the most powerful gift Mother Nature ever bestowed upon women.
It strikes me as vain and preemptive to tell men you’re not going to spread your legs for them. It stinks strongly of “The lady doth protest too much.” It’s akin to a man, in some mad quest to prove he ain’t gay, walking up to random guys and telling them he absolutely refuses to blow them.
So what’s their end game? I fail to follow the logic here. “You won’t allow me to have abortions? Fine—I won’t ever get pregnant, then! You won’t permit me to have random, consequence-free hookups that might lead to unwanted pregnancies? OK—I’ll stop having random, consequence-free sex that might lead to unwanted pregnancies. That’ll show you!”
If you’re not having unprotected sex with men, why would you even need to have abortion as your backup plan, as your ace in the “hole”? And if you’re capable of abstaining, why do you need abortion at all? Just become celibate, and you won’t need an abortion. Problem solved.
And unless you’re constantly being raped, why is abortion such a game-changing topic for you?
What makes these damsels tick? Are they trying to punish the white men who voted for Trump and probably wouldn’t have wanted to bang them, anyway? Or is it some kind of twisted punishment toward the White Dudes for Harris dorks? A majority of white women voted for Trump, too. Why aren’t they trying to punish them? Is this, at base, a quiet way of turning lesbian?
If you shave your head, quit wearing makeup, stop brushing your teeth, let your armpit hair grow like weeds in an abandoned parking lot, allow your snatch to accrue mold like aging cheese, who’s going to regret not breeding with you?
It’s like cutting out your uterus to spite your face.
And if this creates more literal male incels—i.e., men who want to have sex with women, but keep getting rebuffed and have gorged themselves on a steady ideological buffet of rape apologetics—it’s probably going to create more rape, and you’re right back to where you started. You’re a hapless victim of the patriarchy. Is that what you really want?
And if all men are rapists, how is abstinence going to save you from rape? A more practical alternative to shaving your head would be filling your vagina with cement.
60 comments
For the “4B” chicas, saying they’re on a sex strike sounds a lot better than admitting they can’t get any action.
Somewhere in the back of their tiny brains is also the age-old knowledge that playing hard to get just might work better than being spread legged day and night.
I have a niece who is actually beautiful, but an insane liberal who claims to hate all men. (This happened after her boyfriend of 7 years dumped her.) Yet on a recent visit with her we started talking about cute guys and marriage and she brightened up immediately. They act this way and make such stupid claims, but the second a good man looks at them it’s a distant memory. At least for a while, I suppose.
She ought to have had three children before the seven year itch kicked in.
But I guess there is in fact very little outrage about Trump re-election. I expected much more and much worse hysteria. Why are there no riots? Biden should have refused to speak to Trump. Why did Kammalah aknowledge defeat?
Because the Globalists want to destroy the US and make Trump a scape goat for this. New superpower of Globalists would be China, so they abandon the USA, and they would make Trump guilty for American problems, to show to the whole world, that the “right populism” is bad.
What is the key instigator for a decline of the west? Diversity? Decline in religious values? Policies of those of a semitic persuasion? Immigration? I’d say first and foremost it relates to women and how to engage them without giving up the farm. Korea and Japan are not diverse but wrestling with the idea of increasing immigration to deal with the low birthrate.
There is unsettled debate as to whether it is more to do with joining the workforce, desire for greater disposable income than past generations, or next gen feminism (no longer about equal opportunity… if outcomes are not equal, demands not met, then it must be sexism). Every now and then you hear a woman chattering her idea of wisdom, “Happy wife, happy life.” As per a friend, “Wisdom? Sounds more like a threat.”
Kathy Griffin, who once posed with a bloody severed head meant to look like Trump, has now joined the sex strike despite looking like she is older than 75.
“Happy wife, happy life.” As per a friend, “Wisdom? Sounds more like a threat.”
Of course it’s a threat, and rightly so. Romance is not warfare. You don’t get to conquer and subjugate women like a piece of disputed territory and then dictate terms without regard to whether a woman is getting her needs met.
One of the saddest things I have learned about men over the last decade or so is that they are not really afraid of divorce. They know perfectly well that keeping your wife happy is not all that complicated, and married men are not helpless victims of fate. Rather, what they really fear is being married to a woman who can and will divorce them if she is mistreated or neglected.
It is coexistence as equals, and all the anti-macho empathy and humility that entails, that they really fear. In a relationship, one has only two options: vulnerability or indifference. That’s it. You can tweak the ratio and have more of one and less of the other, but the two options nonetheless remain. There is no third.
Now, Mr. Goad, you and all your bros really need to think through your rhetoric about premarital sex and abortion. Abortion is not a Plan B for sluts. Sluts intend to have casual sex and plan ahead using various chemical and/or physical contraceptive methods. It is girls/women who aren’t planning on having casual sex, often because they are relatively conservative about sexual morality, who have unplanned pregnancies, usually because they have failed to appreciate how difficult it is to resist physical intimacy with a man we desire, and even more importantly, how difficult it is to set limits in the heat of the moment.
A moment’s reflection, admittedly too much to expect from the knuckledragging male chauvinists among us, will demonstrate the point. Abortions are more expensive than birth control, so if you know you’re going to have sex, why would you not use birth control? White women are white, after all, and perfectly capable of the foresight that normally prompts one to take precautions.
Why do you think the expected electoral backlash against Republican candidates in the wake of Dobbs didn’t materialize, Mr. Goad? Well, it’s because most women don’t think they’re ever going to need an abortion, either because they use birth control or because they’re not planning on having sex.
Now, who is having abortions? Young, single party girls who aren’t finished sowing their wild oats? No. Most abortion patients (60%) already have children, so their carefree partying days are over anyway, and they are concerned about the quality of life of their existing family, not their own freedom to “sleep around without consequences.” Moreover, they are almost as likely to be married (15%) or cohabiting (31%) as they are to be single, unattached and on the alleged “cock carousel” (46%). Anyone who cares about facts rather than memes can go look it up themselves.
As for sex strikes, I’m all for it. Every Russian and Ukrainian woman should resist to the utmost until their Slavic brothers stop killing each other.
Great comment. The fashion in these parts for woman-hating represents a maladaptive view.
I don’t see any woman-hating going on here, just like I don’t see man-hating when Goad rips into incels.
Mr. Goad needs to find more uplifting subjects. White people don’t need ‘ripping into‘ at all.
I don’t understand all the hysteria about abortion. Only Blacks are using it as birth control anyway ─ available free from the Planned Parenthood clinic. And (in a Bidenista whisper) VD is out of control with PoC nowadays too, so it’s not just about unintended pregnancies and morality or the lack thereof.
There is a famous 1972 episode of Maude where she has an abortion at age 47, which doesn’t strike me as too representative. The show was really about men being reluctant to get sterilized, and the TV producers won a Zero Population Growth prize.
In all the state referenda on the subject of Abortion in the recent election, ensconcing abortion rights won in every state that Trump won. So all of this seems to be crashing through an open door. There isn’t very much of a Handmaid’s Tale push to ban it anywhere from what I can see, and the morning-after pill is now fully in play everywhere.
My cousin was the DNC Chair in 1972, who ran the anti-War candidate George McGovern, a WWII vetreran and otherwise fairly moderate. Nixon won reelection in a landslide, but the main problem was that the Democrat Establishment itself in those days was loath to toss their unpopular Kennedyesque Vietnam “brush war” out of the window so they had been in their own civil war since 1968, so this left only the lunatic Left in charge of the Democratic Party ─ the “Amnesty, Abortion, and Acid” crowd and their Lesbo Jewish handlers. As a devout Mormon Democrat, Madam Chair had no problem with lunchpail worker’s rights and helping for poor people and families ─ but she objected to and was disgusted by a lot of the Leftist cultural bolshevism. She was even respectful to racist George Wallace.
In her memoirs, she said that she supported Roe v. Wade because in those days it was difficult for obstetricians to even contemplate terminating a difficult pregnancy until it became too late and you then went home without a uterus.
But we don’t live in that world today.
Idaho has one of the most restrictive abortion bans after the ending of Roe ─ a state law which still leaves the usual exceptions available ─ so a main battle tank like Maude (Bea Arthur) needn’t worry much.
Plus, there has always been people leaving the state for advanced medical treatment anyway. Like when a Negro who had just been evicted in Boise went on a 2018 rampage and stabbed several adults and children including a Somali three-year-old in the face at her birthday party ─ she had to be flown to Salt Lake City in a desperate but unsuccessful try to save her life.
The social engineers move the Third World “refugees” into White spaces hoping that nobody notices the crime spike and the cats and geese that go missing. And if you don’t like it, bigot, well that is why they put an Anne Frank statue up in downtown Boise.
The Abortion issue has long sucked the political oxygen out of the room. And this is all part of a certain pervasive racial blindness when it comes to evaluating a whole host of social problems from crime, rape, shootings, to marriages and illegitimacy.
It is about time that judicial appointments were no longer divided between either Catholics who secretly wanted to overturn Roe vs. Wade and Jews or PoC who viscerally hate White people, especially “flyover” Whites.
I don’t have much of an insightful take on all of this except that I don’t see it as a societal win that Negro culture is “matriarchal” and to accept that their men by nature don’t support their children (assuming that they even know who they is).
Contrary to the usual Feministas, a Baby Mama in every neighborhood is not the way that Whites do things ─ and it takes a lot of White Guilt for them to enthusiastically pay taxes to support Black welfare queens and their shiftless visitors. The Clintonistas and Janet Reno in the day were going to go after “Deadbeat Dads” and thereby change the welfare state as we know it ─ until it became clear enough that illegitimacy was really more about African culture itself (take that, Senator Moynihan). And Democrats being tough on crime was a good idea for them until it became too obvious that the prisons and jails were filling up with Negroes.
I got an A on a paper in a Women’s Studies class once with the simple observation that I did not see how eliminating no-fault divorce would improve relationships. I was a bit more discreet, however, about voicing another objection that nearly all of the Feminist activists lionized by historians were Jewesses. I’m no fan of the Manosphere types either, but that wasn’t really a thing before the Internet such that is might be now.
🙂
My last bit got cut off and the C-C software is not letting me edit again.
My point is that if we are going to find hills to die on, then we should be a bit more discriminating about it.
🙂
Agreed.
I agree with your points regarding abortion, contraception, and who is actually most likely to use those options. I also agree that women should be able to expect a certain level of treatment in a relationship.
I disagree with your phrasing that men “don’t get to conquer and subjugate women…and then dictate terms.” There’s nothing men “don’t get to” do in a relationship. Any positive treatment or gestures towards equality between sexes are privileges that men have extended to women. In fact, any consideration of a woman’s feelings about courtship or marriage at all is a privilege extended to women by men, because women are physically weaker and therefore inherently subject to the stronger sex’s will. This of course doesn’t mean that privilege shouldn’t be extended; we typically consider it as a primary marker of civilization.
If you look at the animal kingdom or at uncivilized peoples, you’ll see that courtship and rape are basically synonymous. By entering into the institution of marriage or even adhering to the social convention of the man always being the one asking a woman on a date (i.e. giving the man the monopoly on risk and the woman the monopoly on choice), men are extending women a courtesy out of empathy. That white civilizations have historically accorded not equal, but actually preferential treatment to women is a testament to a tremendous level of white male empathy for women. I’d simply encourage you and other white women to be mindful of this.
Any positive treatment or gestures towards equality between sexes are privileges that men have extended to women. In fact, any consideration of a woman’s feelings about courtship or marriage at all is a privilege extended to women by men, because women are physically weaker and therefore inherently subject to the stronger sex’s will.
I was endowed by my Creator with certain inalienable rights, not graciously given privileges by the male of the species. That men could, if they wanted, violate our rights, doesn’t negate their existence. Otherwise, the vast majority of men, who are powerless and relatively if not absolutely impoverished, have no rights, either.
By entering into the institution of marriage or even adhering to the social convention of the man always being the one asking a woman on a date (i.e. giving the man the monopoly on risk and the woman the monopoly on choice)
Lol, this is too much. If you don’t get to take the initiative, you don’t have a “monopoly on choice.” Of course, we do get to take the initiative, and often must do so, because some men are too clueless to notice when a girl is flirting with them.
That white civilizations have historically accorded not equal, but actually preferential treatment to women is a testament to a tremendous level of white male empathy for women. I’d simply encourage you and other white women to be mindful of this.
I don’t buy this crap about preferential treatment, but I do agree with you that White men are exceptionally empathic towards women. Indeed, they were the main driving force behind women’s emancipation. When you’re in prison, only someone outside your cell can unlock it, and White men, much to their credit, have done just that.
We simply disagree on anyone having “certain inalienable rights.” That’s a more liberal worldview than I have. I believe in the pre-Enlightenment perspective that right is only in question between equals in power and that the law of the world is the strong imposing their will on the weak.
I frequently see women saying that men don’t understand their flirting – that’s a problem, but it doesn’t really seem like a political or philosophical issue, so I don’t think it’s worth getting into here. I think that initiative in dating is a matter of perspective. Men typically do the asking, but in my mind getting to decide yes or no is sovereignty. Men have the initiative in starting a conversation, women have the initiative in actually starting a relationship.
I’m glad we found common ground on white men’s contributions to white women. I disagree with your portrayal of women’s history in Europe as a prison. The European version of the doctrine of separate spheres legitimated itself on the premise that women were the morally superior sex and needed to be insulated from the corruption of the world. European women were perceived as so valuable that they were not required to perform the same duties of citizenship as men – men had to demonstrate societal value through labor and military service while women were perceived as having inherent value. That premise still endures in many white countries today with women being exempted from the draft.
I’m sure we are in alignment at least on the premise that the European ideology of chivalry is by definition preferential to women. Its core concept is that men should sacrifice their labor, wealth, time, and even their lives for the sake of women. That traditionally gendered world is only oppressive based on the bourgeois perspective that your quality of life is determined by your “freedom” to participate in capitalism and electoral politics. Certainly there were men who abused that world to oppress women, but I personally don’t believe it was ideologically based on or dedicated to misogyny.
I understand your frustration and anger with the state of modern masculinity. When you see a clueless, slovenly, immature white man, it must be the same feeling as when I see a white woman carrying a mulatto baby or shrieking about Trump. I think it’s healthy and admirable that you vigorously defend your sex – it’s the same prideful impulse that makes you a defender of our race. I also agree with you fully that incels are a burden on our movement and repulsive in general. I am disgusted by the people on the Right who blame everything on white women, buying into an anti white narrative created to destroy us. But my hope is that what I’ve written here will get you to consider whether some of your beliefs about European gender history might be influenced by anti white ideology as well.
It’s clear to me that you are a high value white woman, so please remember that white men are not your enemy, no matter how much bile you see from a subset of them online. One of the worst possible outcomes for whites would be the gender rift growing irreconcilable due mainly to stupidity on social media. My desire to protect white women is actually what got me into these politics in the first place, because I was incensed by migrant rapes in Europe around 2015. That desire to protect white womanhood has been a catalyst for every prowhite movement I know of globally. I personally love and cherish white women and children more than anything else in existence and would gladly die on their behalf if necessary. I hope that one day our race will get back to where the majority of white men cherish white women because they are white women, and the majority of white women admire white men because they are white men. We might actually be closer to that than what we see online would make us think.
@Corday
What he (namely you) said.
The noble lie of inalienable rights, ostensibly a protection of the individual, has been used to justify the channelling of all power to the almighty state to the point where a father or mother may not even chastise a child as he or she sees fit, even though the same child might, in many jurisdictions, have been destroyed in utero, when already fully formed, at the request of the would-not-be mother. Our ancestors would struggle to understand how we could have allowed this to come to pass.
If you’re still stuck in the equality paradigm, I don’t know what to tell you.
The crux is whether someone agrees or disagrees with “They know perfectly well that keeping your wife [or girlfriend] happy is not all that complicated…”. That many women refuse to date a Trump supporter suggests that things can get complicated. Is it about subjugating women or behaving like the Thought Police?
It’s pretty common lore that withholding sex in a relationship is starting the clock for its end. Caveat emptor to any who venture here. If either gender puts forward an angry ultimatum with no nuance/negotiation – it’s not going to end well.
There have been decades of feminist informed policy. The result? Surveys show women are more unhappy now than before. It’s one of the great issues of the day hearing various sides ‘splain their hot takes. I have daughters/nieces. I’m much less worried about ‘subjugation’ than I am about various influencers making them unable to get along with men and cycle through relationships because they expect the impossible and cannot compromise (re-read: compromise is not the same as subjugation).
Where is all this conquering and subjugating women is going on? Afghanistan? The latest sequel to The Handmaid’s Tale? Certainly not in college enrollment. Is one gender demanding more out of relationships than the other? If Westerners don’t sustain their population, they are simply going to be replaced by immigrants who are even more patriarchal than the abominable white man.
Latinos? We have all seen the genders of housekeeping crews and the sizes of their families.
Asians? Do white women really want even more thin, feminine Asians as competition? Maybe Christopher Rufo can opine.
Muslims? Eternally aching to win a Gloria Steinem prize for feminism.
While Trump is better than many alternatives, he pissed off too many women at the outset and impedes women moving rightward. Instead racing to a new Platinum Plan he might try to better defuse some of the absurd anti-women theories linked to him.
I don’t what epiphany you’ve had to give insight into the minds of men but if men are not afraid of divorce it must generally be because their lives have been made so miserable in the lead up that the the coup de grace is sweet relief. Women initiate divorces for all number of reasons, some clearly justified , some, as with getting married or having children, because their girlfriends have raved about it.
Dick Allgire (of the Future Forecasting Group) made a snarky six-minute video on the 4B movement and its actual background.
Women have always been on a sex strike when it comes to UGLY and SEMI-UGLY men which today means everybody who is not amongst the the top 20% GOOD-LOOKING. The whole gender/feminism mania has always been but a pretext to scare off physically un-attractive and older males.
everybody who is not amongst the the top 20% GOOD-LOOKING
And yet, the majority of men somehow manage to father a child by the time they’re thirty.
When confronted with the inconvenient fact that many more than 20% of men are obviously able to find mates, incel losers will admit the ugly truth about their ugly selves: they won’t be settled for. Rather, they insist on being worshipped like Adonis himself. Otherwise, they’ll have to actually put some time and effort into nurturing their relationship and retaining their mate. To them, this is, at best, a frustrating distraction, at worst, an insufferable humiliation.
First of all, don’t become female hating incel. You will only make your situation worse. A couple of Counter-Currents writers might help you put some things into perspective. F. Roger Devlin has some thought-provoking articles on this topic. I would also recommend his book “Sexual Utopia in Power”. Some of Jim Goad’s articles might be helpful as well. He has written about his experiences with women and why you should not give up on women and dating. Apparently, a lot of young men are going through what you are going through. A lot of young women are going through something similar and I’m not talking about these feminists who are threatening to go on a sex strike because Trump won the election. Online dating sites have flaws, and many mainstream commentators have been writing articles about it. I would consider getting on more than one dating website, not just Tinder. Information is available on how to make an appealing profile on dating sites. As I said, dating sites are flawed, so don’t just rely on them. People have mixed opinions about pick-up artists. I would suggest studying at least some of their work. You might not agree with everything they say, however, you might find at least some of their information useful.
I appreciate your reply, Siegfried. You sound like a sane, reasonable person, unlike most incels. Here are my thoughts.
Beta Buxx Theory
OK, but it sounds to me like the problem is the good-looking men who won’t settle down until they “get older.” Upthread, Edmund says he doesn’t see misogyny on the dissident right, but this is it right here. The ubiquitous tendency to blame women for bad things men do. It’s almost as though, on some level, incels identify with serial heartbreakers, assuming without even thinking about it that these men are just doing what any normal man (most especially themselves) would do in the same situation. I’m not saying for certain that this is the case with you, because I don’t know your heart, but some examination of your own moral assumptions might be in order here.
When a man sweettalks a woman, she is not going to assume that he is lying to her in order to get her into bed. This is so for numerous reasons, including the fact that men can be very good liars, indeed. Though this has not been established conclusively, there is some evidence to suggest that men are more persuasive liars than women. This would stand to reason, since men are more psychopathic than women in general. (This is not a wholly bad thing, either, because psychopathic traits have indispensible prosocial correlates, such as the ability to remain calm while slicing into someone’s brain to remove a tumor, for example.)
The problem may indeed not be too much misandry, but rather too little. If women trusted men less, casual sex might be harder to come by, and all these “Alphas” might settle earlier. Would the tradeoff be worth it IYO?
If men can’t get a woman who is average weight and doesn’t have bipolar disorder (which is not asking a lot)
Indeed, it’s asking far, far too little, a prodigious turnoff. You can’t make a girl feel that she is the woman of your dreams (on the inside, not the outside), if you haven’t even figured out what the woman of your dreams would be like. I married in my mid-twenties and remain happily married now, because I found a man who loves me for me, as ridiculously cliche as it sounds. He loves not knowing what amusing, off-the-wall thing will come out of my mouth next. He doesn’t mind if he comes home and the house is a mess because we’re busy playing chess. I could go on but you get the idea. Life is so much simpler and more rewarding when you can keep your man and live happily ever after just by being yourself.
The Meaning of Life
Women are extremely privileged, but think they’re oppressed. Every day is like Yule morning for them. They get to live through all kinds of wonderful things that they’ll never forget.
I assure you, most of us don’t think we’re oppressed, though we may be vigilant about the threat of reactionaries who want to return to the bad old days. Nor do we consider ourselves “privileged” because we can easily get what you want: sex without commitment. Indeed, you defile one of the sweetest moments of childhood by associating it with recreational sex, and you infantilize the human person by reducing sexual union to an egocentric pleasure comparable to a windfall of playthings.
I try to be charitable with my White non-Christian brothers and sisters, but I can’t help but suspect that the fact that you call it Yule rather than Christmas might have something to do with your malaise. At its best, by giving one a joyful sense of connectedness to a national community through time and space, neopaganism can offer something of the self-transcendence that is the objective of newer, post-Axial religions everywhere. It doesn’t seem to be doing that for you, though. You are fetishizing sex as the summum bonum, some sort of peak experience that gives life meaning. Again, you might want to do some soul-searching about that. As it stands, you are a textbook mid-life crisis waiting to happen.
I did not say there was no misogyny in the Dissident right. I’m aware of groypers and the like.
The “here” I was referring to is Jim’s article. There is nothing I read in this piece that goes after the average woman. He ridicules a certain type of woman, but he regularly does the same to various types of men.
Mr. Siegfried,
You wrote in your first post that you want a girl who is neurotypical and is “normal” weight. Now you are telling me that you want “love.” What exactly do you mean by that? Because last I checked, overweight, neurodivergent women need love, too. The fact that your very short checklist said absolutely nothing about pastimes or hobbies led me to believe that you’re not really planning on spending much actual time outside the sack with your eventual spouse. Otherwise, these things would matter to you as much as a woman’s BMI.
The whole incel thing reminds me of the aughties bust, when home owners refused to sell their homes “for less than its worth” and froze the market for awhile, but eventually capitulated. The market is telling you that your price is too high. If you choose not to listen, its noone’s fault but your own if your heart turns to ice.
The funny thing about this is that, if you are getting married for the right reasons, your wife is going to be fat for the first decade or so of your marriage regardless of the size of her wedding dress. Pregnant women get really, really hungry, Mr. Siegfried, and most White women aren’t going to starve themselves for you. Then, they’re going to breastfeed, and they’re still going to be hungry. If your wife is willing to risk her milk supply to be sexier for you, Mr. Siegfried, you’ll know you picked the wrong woman. By the time she loses her baby weight, it will be time for her to get pregnant again.
Now, I noticed that none of the helpful advice you’ve been offered here includes anything about self-improvement of the spiritual or intellectual kind. I suspect this is because there is an assumption that women only care about dollar signs and sex appeal. If their advice doesn’t work for you, consider trying a different approach.
If you wind up being one of the large majority of men who eventually get married in this country, and you have children, there may come a time when you wish you had made better use of the peace and quiet of your bachelor days. Do you read novels or poetry? Play a musical instrument? Do you know any foreign languages? Can you read Anglo-Saxon or Old Norse? Are you knowledgeable about history and philosophy? Can you draw? Is there anything at all about you that would be interesting to normal women? If all you do is play video games and wollow in self-pity, your case is hopeless for the foreseeable future.
So, you have a hangup about sex due to the abrahamic brainwashing you went through as a child
Not so, Mr. Siegfried. I have just noticed that one tires of it after a while. Have you ever had a dog? I am a cat person, but I like dogs, too. Have you ever noticed how they never get tired fetching tennis balls? I have never understood that about them. Sure, you can try to throw the ball a little further or throw it into a bush, or you could skip the tennis ball and use a Frisbee or a stick instead, but at the end of the day, you’re still doing the same damned thing, over and over and over again. Men seem to want to keep this up for their entire lives. Women, not so much. Once Baby comes, your sex drive becomes a nuisance, though a tolerable one so long as you are helpful and not too demanding.
You should write an essay on women for the benefit of young (and perhaps not so young) men.
I myself think picking up women is, for most men, a targeting and a numbers game. A man must put himself in environments where he has the best chance of meeting the kinds of women he likes – and then he has to be aggressive about hitting on women (but not in a creepy or scary, just an insistent, way).
Also, talk to girls out in the world – at the grocery store, coffee shop, or whatever. Yeah, there’s a good chance they’ll disdain you and in a rude way. That’s why you must expect to gain nothing, nor have any hope of gaining anything, other than a conversation. Ask a question, chat, and say ‘have a nice day’. Ignore the spoiled, entitled ones. If a girl seems like she enjoys talking with you, as opposed to just politely tolerating you, then ask her out. Expect to be disappointed, but do it long enough and you’ll not only get comfortable talking to girls and being rejected, you might find one who likes you.
Go where the girls are, and where they’re not rushing to do something or leave. Find a hobby with a good amount of females that you can also enjoy in itself – not just for its access to women. Go there and talk to them, casually, without expectations.
Maybe get a dog. It’ll not only provide companionship, but there are a lot of women you can meet out walking your dog, or at the park.
And forget Tinder. That’s a sex app, not a dating app. Only the top men have success there. Use a site oriented toward relationships and marriage. Don’t waste your time with any woman who is not even potentially marriage quality. I suspect the ones on Tinder aren’t.
I guess I’m old because I don’t recognize any of those apps. I used the OkCupid website back in the day, and met a dozen or so girls from it but it’s probably a far-left hive now. (None of those relationships went anywhere.) No matter what, you have to get comfortable talking to girls. They have a keen ability to sniff out nervousness. They can be very rude, but other than mean words they’re not going to hurt you. So just start and get used to it.
– Be in shape, physically and mentally. (You don’t need six-pack abs, but don’t be too fat or skinny. Be generally easy-going and content, not high-strung or depressive.)
– Have a job, some money, and decent clothes. (You don’t need to be rich and drive a flashy car, but groom yourself.)
– Go where the girls are, but don’t go there just for the girls. I.e. find a hobby that you enjoy that has girls – more girls than boys! Churches can be good if they have lots of people your age; the women are more likely to be marriageable. Lots of single women have dogs, so try that.
– Talk to the girls but don’t expect a date right away. Chat. Get to know them. If you do ask one out and she says “no”, then continue being friendly but don’t invest resources in her that you wouldn’t invest in a man.
– Never waste your time chasing girls who aren’t at least potentially marriage and mother material. I.e. don’t chase sex. It can be enjoyable, but it’s ultimately a path to hedonism and degeneracy. If you’re a virgin and want to get some experience, it’s okay, but be careful. Your goal should be to find a good woman and start a family.
Some good tips. Having a dog is probably pretty impractical for many young men but it’s certainly a great way to strike up casual conversations with people. If you have a friendly well-trained canine by your side, at the very least you’ll have a trusty companion who truly thinks the world of you and you’ll get talk to women even if they don’t become your girlfriends.
I can very much relate to your situation. I’m also in my mid-20’s and was using those oh-so-wonderful dating apps from around 21 up until about several months ago. Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge brought me no dates and seriously wounded my self-esteem. In the extremely rare event that I matched with someone attractive, they would ghost or unmatch almost immediately. I had even less success with faith-based dating sites (CatholicMatch, Christian Mingle, etc.). Regardless, I’ve sworn off these wretched apps; I’ll meet someone in the real world or not at all.
Women lie when they say that they want someone with an interesting personality. They want someone who is ambitious enough to get a high paying job, and has some kind of hobby like hiking or something, but they don’t want any depth. They only want to discuss the newest Netflix shows.
I always smoke them out eventually. How about we borrow from Pascal’s playbook? If an incel with nothing better to do takes my advice and improves his mind and soul, and nothing comes of it romantically, he will have lost nothing and gained much. If something does come of it, he will have gained twice over.
I don’t think most incels are at all interested in this kind of self-improvement, because the very dull and shallow character they attribute to women is actually a projection of their own. The only things worth doing are the things that lead to sex with some random woman you find contemptible and cannot even see clearly, let alone love. It’s really pathetic. James Hetfield recently said that we all have the same size soul. A noble sentiment, but sadly untrue,
From what I hear, Tinder is pretty much a desert unless you look like a movie star. I’ve had success on other platforms, but the average time it takes to line up a hot date makes online dating unviable as a primary strategy. Anyway, this might help:
https://counter-currents.com/2024/02/game-101-part-1/
I see women getting fussier in the online dating age, as supported by the differing M/F assessments on what % of people are ‘attractive’. At the same time, women do recognize the ‘biological clock’ in their 30s, and also when they start worrying they will be the last of their friends to be unattached. The become more open minded in their 30s which is why you see the most grumbling from guys in their 20s.
So for the young guys, think long term and get your life, job, social skills and health in order for when the right thing comes along. Actually that’s good advice for men and women. As they say, the right person often comes along when you aren’t even looking.
Just a suggestion for a fun hobby where you are more likely to increase the likelihood of meeting people with a traditionalistic, socially conservative mindset in general and women in particular – historical re-enactment events. I’m UK-based and have been doing it on an on-and-off basis for nearly 25 years; it can be quite lucrative as well – I’ve had well-paying film extra work out of it. Multi-period events are the best particularly when the display is over and members of the public have gone home. The refreshment marquees are opened and everybody socialises and has a good time with people discussing each others costumes; where they come from; their jobs, etc. Just going along to mix in is enjoyable; don’t expect instant results – cast your net far and wide and be on friendly terms with everybody, including other men, because they’ll have contacts to other people which will obviously include some women. You can choose your time period – why not a dashing Napoleonic cavalry officer? Or perhaps something a little less far back in history? The sky’s literally the limit and you’ll have a bloody good laugh in the process!
Let me know what you think.
Replying to Siegfried’s message of 17/11/24 @ 8.01
“It is not that I want a woman with a socially conservative mindset. I don’t have that myself. I’d be willing to date a woman who was socially conservative, or one who wasn’t.”
Why are you posting on this website for if you are not socially conservative? Are you a socially liberal/progressive? Would you date a tattooed, blue-haired Antifa female dwarf if she agreed to sleep with you?
Also your posting of 17/11/24 @ 8.43
“And if I’m going to have to date a woman I don’t find hot, then why not date a man?”
What is it exactly that you want? Love? Sex? Wanting to be wanted? Perhaps just recognition and acknowledgement?
Replying to Siegfried’s message 18/11/24 @ 06.34
Yes the points you make are valid. And being a younger man who is constantly passed over will have a demoralising effect with the result that if almost any woman takes an interest in you, then you grasp the situation as would a drowning man grab a rope. I had just turned 23 by the time I had lost my virginity. She was 19 and socially unstable. Her mother had recently been murdered by her father in a family argument over money. Taking responsibility for his actions and handing himself over to the police, the father was placed in a psychiatric hospital. On his release, he committed suicide by hanging himself during the summer of 1988.
I tried to help as best I could but it was hopeless. The relationship became toxic and I was subject to verbal and physical abuse by her. Four years later, I moved to a different part of the country to start a new life. The effect of the move was to more or less force me to attempt at developing my social skills – such as they were! Gradually, I developed a circle of friends both male and female. Most of this group dissipated over time, but the two people I remain in contact with are both women, one of whom I had a very brief physical relationship with.
Just after I turned 40, I moved once again to yet another part of the country. I’ve been single since 2006 following a twelve year-long relationship. I’ve learned to value the importance of personal privacy and being able to do what I want when I want – I know this sounds selfish but looking back – even to when I was a young boy, I’ve always preferred my own company. I’m not a complete hermit and enjoy helping my neighbours with DIY projects and visiting the local pub where I live, making friends with the regulars.
I know this may sound trite, but the passage of time heals. The feelings of rejection and unworthiness diminish and yes you’re right, there are some people, men as well as women who are perhaps rather socially uninteresting – wall-to-wall sports TV, celebrity gossip, following the latest fads and trends etc. Who needs it?!
Also, remember that you’re part of a wider community here on this website and others like it. We are now living in very interesting times. Things appear to be going in our favour. You become part of this process of positive change by reading, absorbing and commenting on the material here.
I hope my comments have been of some help.
Between the “Childless Cat Ladies For Kamala” and now this 4B bullshit, these people are cracking me up. Its hilarious to watch them self-destruct. Keep it coming leftists!
Feminists are unfit to be in the gene pool. 4B contributes to that. It’s tough on the good young men of today but the future will have fewer worthless cat ladies.
“Maybe feminism wasn’t merely—or even primarily—a way to wreck the nuclear family or to “empower” women. Maybe it was also a sly scheme for driving down wages—just like immigration.”
Thank you for these sentences, Jim. Now we´re talking about the real deal.
Those extras were a feature, not a bug.
Many of these women are unattractive, many of them are not white. But some are fairly attractive white women. This development does have negative consequences.
I can’t help but wonder just how many of these women will actually stick to this celibacy pledge. Once their anger subsides will they still maintain this pledge a year from now? It could be the equivalent of people who plan to lose weight, but don’t stick to a diet, especially the attractive ones that you pointed out. They should be able to find a boyfriend and sex partner that shares their beliefs. If they actually stick to this, they will leave out many of their male feminist allies. Then again, that could be a good thing, they won’t breed.
Not all will remain celibate. Female sexuality is much more fluid, with bisexual tendencies pretty much baked into the cake. In addition snacking on snatch, others will turn to their war chest of sex toys as they goon out to porn.
This may be eugenics in action: ok, so the mentally ill, schizophrenic women do not want to procreate anymore. Why is this bad? re: “woke eugenics” by Edward Dutton.
That’s dumb. Probably a majority of white women have been indoctrinaed, are subject to this sociological phenomenon. And many are not the hideous specimens propped up for coping purposes.
Repeal the 19th.
I don’t know what epiphany…..
Feminism was great for the first generation of men to live through it, which, alas, was not quite mine. I’m thinking Trump’s generation, which technically is mine, too, but that 15 year age difference masks a huge sociological difference – though not as much as between Boomers and today’s messed up young.
But for all subsequent generations, feminism has ruined society (and is killing the West). I’m really surprised that men of today tolerate this situation. At the very least, an enterprising politician could probably launch a career calling for the nationwide legalization (and health-regulation) of prostitution. Today’s situation of the widespread lack of heterosexual activity, especially for young white (but not only white) men, is unprecedented and unnatural, and would not have been tolerated (by men!) in all past times. I think legalized prostitution would help to undermine feminism.
Of course, once all the trends set in motion by unnatural leftism of all varieties lead to system collapse, watch how quickly normal sexual relations will return, undoubtedly via both voluntary and involuntary means.
This is very naive. Legalized prostitution has almost zero impact on incels.
What exactly is naive? I would say disagreement with my comment is naive.
I’m no expert on either incels or prostitution (I’m not an incel, nor have I ever used a whore, nor would I for reasons of pride and self-respect, as well as health, hygiene and legality). But where apart from certain counties in Nevada is prostitution legal? I admit I don’t keep up with this sort of thing, but my impression is that prostitution is pretty much illegal everywhere across the US.
In Germany, prostitution is legal, but that has no effect on the incel phenomenon.
Then it is these German men’s’ fault that they are Incels. Prostitution in Central Europe to include the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria and Germany is legal, safe, clean and affordable. One could easily find prostitutes who are physically gorgeous to service a man for about $95 United States of America dollars or 100 Euros for at least 20 to 30 minutes. You can always find higher priced prostitutes which may or may not provide better service in these Central European nations. It would cost at least $3000USD an hour to get the same on looks for a gorgeous woman in a rural brothel in the state of Nevada, United States of America where it is legal, safe and clean but this is not affordable. It would cost at least $1500 a hour for a lower tier prostitute in the same brothels. I only ever read of a disabled American Soldier from the Iraq War who got a discount of $700 an hour who was in a wheelchair after his legs were shot off his body. Legal or possibly better decriminalized Prostitution which is safe, clean and affordable may not solve men’s’ problems with women, but it sure alleviates it a lot.
Men need to realize that there is virtually no such thing as absolute unconditional love between one human and another human. Men also need to understand that women are on average by far more conditional about love especially romantic, erotic and sexual love than men are. The only person who will most likely ever love, validate and respect you as a person be you a male or female is yourself. Even H. L. Mencken said in the 20th century that not one woman in a hundred married her first choice for husband. Women in the West do not need men because of the welfare state, jobs which pay enough for her to live, alimony, child support payments etc. Men need to realize how worthless the overwhelming majority of women’s love especially if it is romantic, erotic and sexual is. Although I believe in treating women well and with respect and even some love, let’s be honest to say that the almost always kindest thing any woman who is not your family member can do for a heterosexual man is to offer to ejaculate his penis. There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for another, and men routinely do this many times more for women than women do for men.
This is really dark.
Keep in mind that incels are usually autistic, which is the ultimate reason they can’t succeed with women. A naked woman could be spread eagle in front of them begging for it, and at the end of the night they would still be virgins. They’re just too awkward. Unfortunately, many of these incels find their way to White Nationalism.
To Greg Johnson and Morality Squad
I apologize for getting back to both of you late. What I wrote may seem dark to you but tragically it is the truth. If these Incels can’t or worse yet won’t make their involuntary celibacy especially if it is involuntary virginity when physically beautiful, clean, safe and legal prostitutes are willing to service them then nothing more can be done for them. I am not saying prostitution rids men’s and especially Incel men’s problems with women, but it greatly alleviates the same said problems. Yes, I think men should truly try to better to attract women, but women should truly try harder to attract men too. Homosexual men and women are having more while heterosexual men and women are having less sex than 20 to 30 years ago. The 18-29 male rate of not having had sex within the past year is at least 30% now while among women of the same age group it is at most 19% now. There is hardly such a thing as true female Incels while nearly all men who have not had any sex in the the past year are true Incels. The lowest and least amount of sexual activity for men is for their sex partners to be fully clothed while giving them a handjobs preferably truly trying ejaculate their penises. Women have more genuine opportunities to improve themselves than men do today in Western civilization. Virtually every woman can easily have amateur sex with a more attractive man but almost no man can do this. Most men if they want at least a physically more attractive woman must pay a prostitute and a large minority of men can not get sex unless they pay for a prostitute. Most of this is women’s fault because of hypergamy and misandry coupled with feminist supremicist delusions. Always remember that if amateur women did their job correctly then professional women(sex workers especially prostitutes) jobs would be greatly reduced or maybe disappear.
Second Wave Feminism is cancer.
Occasionally they will make a decent point about inequities before they proceed to find more-imagined grievances and move on to the next “wave” about rainbow gender-queer and anti-White nostrums.
And all educated women are being indoctrinated in the Marxist University system with this bile, which is why many of them are now using weird pronouns, etc. and often look like Jackie Coogan from the Addams Family in drag. The mainstream media loves to point out how “educated” women did not vote for Trump.
🙂
For over 40 years, I’ve understood that the overarching goal of the Left was the total eradication of Western Civ in all its elements (and glory). I had to realize that for myself (ie, when I reached that understanding, there was not yet an internet/CC etc to spoon feed me truth). I always thought that racial integration (today I would speak of race replacement and the cult of Diversity) was the main mechanism by which the Left would accomplish the West’s destruction. I’m no longer quite as sure. Maybe attacking and brainwashing women – pitting the sexes against each other – was always understood by the Left to be the path to Occidental suicide. I still think race is as a matter of cold fact the main problem and threat, but feminism has likewise only weakened us (and it may well have had a bigger effect than race in terms of making white men’s lives unhappy).
That said, I still think the major focus of the Right must be on race and white awakening.
I have my own theory: traditional arranged marriages have made men less desirable in the marriage market. It’s why pajeets are so repulsive to most women.
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