139 words / 1:52:23
On this episode of Counter-Currents Radio, Greg Johnson is joined by Mike from Imperium Press and our own Nicholas Jeelvy to discuss the blowup between C. A. Bond and Bronze Age Pervert (or his followers). This is not just a drama stream, however, because there are interesting lessons to be learned. Imperium Press also took an impressively principled stand against doxing. Topics discussed include:
00:02:30 Background to the conflict
00:09:00 Bronze Age Pervert’s alleged dissertation
00:15:00 The role of money in society
00:23:00 The Bronze Age lexicon
00:32:00 Getting money from rich people
00:37:00 Does BAP have a secret agenda?
00:56:00 Getting behind a leader
01:15:00 Religious revival
01:19:00 Doxing
01:31:00 Petty drama
01:39:00 Future projects
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32 comments
What does Greg Johnson mean by Straussian?
Straussians are followers of Leo Strauss, the German-Jewish political philosopher long associated with the University of Chicago.
Thanks but I hear it used as an adjective as well. Tyler Cowen for example always uses it. What does it mean to say someone is “Straussian.” That the policy advised is mean to serve hidden objectives?
Strauss’s teaching is hard to summarize in a short comment, but an important part of it was Strauss’s distinction between the exoteric and esoteric aspects of political philosophy.
The exoteric is what is fed to the masses – e.g., that America is a propositional nation, the reason for “American exceptionalism,” that the Emma Lazarus poem on the plinth of the Statue of Liberty is the credo and raison d’être of the United States, that the fuzzy-wuzzies in Godforsakenistan hate us because of our freedom (not because we’ve invaded their country), etc.
The esoteric is what the ruling class really believes and what animates its actions, which may be quite different from the exoteric rationale they publicly expound. Strauss argued for the concept of a “noble lie” that would advance the objectives of the governing elite.
This aspect of Straussian thinking basically provides a deep philosophical foundation for the practices earlier advocated in Edward Bernays’s Propaganda and Walter Lippmann’s Public Opinion. A more recent advocate of Straussian praxis is Cass Sunstein. Interestingly, none of these people would ordinarily be described as “Straussian,” but it’s hard to escape the parallels.
Academic Straussians of note include Harry Jaffa and Allan Bloom.
Hope this makes it a little clearer.
So it’s being used as I understood – there are ulterior motive are behind ideas being promoted. Maybe Strauss contributed some interesting rationale to justify the deception but the tactic is ancient.
More interesting is what the ulterior motives are. Greg Johnson says that Claremont group (Yarvin, Anton, BAP, etc.) has been promoting nationalism and Trump for Straussian reasons. They are not real nationalists. What are their real objectives? Maybe it has to do with current trends leading to a decline of the US which they see as being more libertarian (liberal) than the alternatives (China and Russia)?
53:30 – the disaffected elite. This is already starting to happen and we need to be ready to take advantage of it as it happens more and more.
Not all millionaires and billionaires are going to benefit equally from the ‘Great Reset’/direction the globalists are taking us. They are not all on the same page.
For example, there are some industries destined for decline according to the The Great Reset crowd; nuclear being pushed to the side for ‘green’ energy, oil being pushed out for electric vehicles, mining is deemed bad for the climate, farming bad for the environment, parts of the manufacturing sector etc.
Some of the wealthy elites in those industries will be happy to just transition out but others will be pissed off.
One partnership opportunity I can see RIGHT NOW is ranchers/animal ag wealth and right wing body building. Ranching and red meat is under attack by means of tax, anti-red meat propaganda and fake environmentalism. The right wing body building ‘community’ are all for red meat and other animal products for building muscle. We are natural allies to these wealthy land owning ranchers as we support and promote their products. Some of these land owners are probably anti-Whites. Many are probably race-blind White republican voters who aren’t far off understanding the CC world view.
I’m sure there are other opportunities.
Its happening in Australia already…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETQMaL57UZc
Sorry, that was just a drama stream, at least for the thirty minutes I could endure. Splitting hairs among factions of the right with tiny, tiny followings. No thanks.
Just because you don’t know BAP or the other people in question does not mean they have tiny followings or that their ideas and works aren’t important.
I thought this was a fairly cerebral discussion about power and strategy. I support the idea of White Shinto.
I know BAP, have his book and I’m aware of NRX. I’m not a fan of e-drama and the issues involved here are not exactly compelling.
Thanks for your attempt at dishonestly framing the stream to deceive others.
BAP and co are the faction of the dissident right closest to elite influential institutions. He gets the interest of “dirtbag left” types in a way CounterCurrents and other explicitly white nationalist outlets never will.
His banning from Twitter and the surrounding events seem worth covering.
“BAP and co are the faction of the dissident right closest to elite influential institutions. ” – could you elaborate on this ? I’m interested. I never bought his book but did take a look at his twitter a while ago.
About the ‘Religious Revival’, nowhere on the Right spectrum have I observed any street-level zealots or SJWs that will advance the cause (be it for the Center-Right Liberal or Con Inc. or the Dissident-Right) with sustained moral conviction in a productive manner. What would that take to start and gain momentum?
I believe that will be a necessary element for our cause in the future.
White Shinto? Religious revival? For Chrissakes, Islam? Could any of this be more Pozzed?
If my honed craft were metaphysics, I’d probably worry about getting doxxed too ─ people who polish the marble or actually make the trains run on time, probably not so much.
I don’t understand all the pining for the Dark Ages, and especially how WN can possibly think that more superstition somehow wins an ideological war for Whites, or any other kind of war.
If the Truth has any meaning at all, you can’t just make stuff up.
Maybe I am just deficient in my Faith.
Maybe some fine day a real prophet, or even a angel of God, will hand down the genuine marching orders on a set of tablets; the faithful will galvanize behind the one-true Spirit, and again, so wilt the people blindly believe.
What are the odds that the new call to prayer will be: better living through global miscegenation and corporate Logos.
Sorry, no sale. The Separation of Church and State is the true miracle.
As long as their kids are not mindlessly getting sent to third-world sewers, many decent White people would even say that is what’s worth fighting for.
Could Nick have been thinking of the Yeats poem “…the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity..” whoa, that’s antifa! It’s the Second Coming by Years, not Eliot. Wrong Nobelist.
That was a great podcast! Best in months! Way more than just a drama cast. Loved the discussion of the thesis! Great guest. Thanks for the update on Molbug! Please do more like this!
What about the Pindar part of the thesis was so interesting?
Yeah, I meant the Yeats poem. English poetry is not my strong suit.
Hooo! Epic poetry assist! Thanks for the great podcast. Your comments on doxing were illuminating.
If BAP is really costen, he has written for taki’s magazine! The author profile says “he has an undergraduate degree in mathematics from MIT, studied at Columbia and the Sorbonne, and has recently completed his doctorate at Yale University in the political science department; he has taught at Yale and Emory, and is currently traveling in Europe and writing a book about the lives of tyrants in ancient Greece and Renaissance Italy.”
Good God! Apparently being smart does not correlate with being interesting.
If that profile is true, it should be easy to doxx (which is why it might not be).
For me, the best reason not to believe the dox is that Alamariu’s dissertation is much more interesting than anything BAP has put out. But given certain overlaps between the two writers, we can say that the identification is at least superficially plausible.
For all the lamenting, on this very difficult stream to listen too, it was most clearly stated around 1:30 that a valid critique of Bronze Age Mindset is in order.
Mr. Johnson your repeated remarks, and others, along the lines of “Alamariu’s dissertation is more interesting than anything BAP has put out” are not becoming.
BAM has repeatedly been among the top few hundred books selling on Amazon and the Caribbean Rhythms show he host has obtained a huge following as well. Prior to BAP’s ban on twitter he had nearly 75k followers on tract to hit 100k by the end of year and likely many millions of impressions a month.
To dismiss this success as “not interesting” is disingenuous. The Claremont review is telling, without reviewing a review, it is obvious some points are missed. Most importantly what the review, you Mr. Johnson, and others are really failing to understand is this:
“””
The reason this book is important is because it speaks directly to a youthful dissatisfaction (especially among white males)
And I have more bad news for my fellow conservatives: the talented kids who’ve found this book aren’t listening to us. It doesn’t matter whether they aren’t listening because they found the book, or they found the book because they aren’t listening.
“”
BAM did more to explain why to young men they are feeling spiritually vapid and why they should improve themselves than almost anything else available. He venerated masculinity and European culture with a Dionysian playfulness.
You should engage and critique those ideas.
Since English is not your first language, I will ignore your insults and patronizing tone, on the assumption that they might be unintentional. My problem with your comment is the same problem I have with BAP: aside from pointing out that he is popular, which is the most empty and debased measure of value, you say nothing of substance. I don’t see anything of real substance in BAP either. Hence I can’t say anything more of substance about him. I’m not hostile to him like Bond is. I don’t think he’s up to no good. I just don’t think he’s that important and puzzled that he has a fan base.
To dismiss ones ability to rally the youth is very foolish, especially in the age of “Mass Democracy”.
I’ve already explained the substance worth exploring. He explained to young white men that vitality, and the veneration of, is important. Ancient European history has lessons in masculinity and laws to teach the modern world, and the body is the foundation of all things.
To quote BAM
“Well as rare as beautiful bodies are, the mind in the same condition is even more rare. Let us strive, in our decrepit, cancerous and fetid world, for what is concrete and what we can try to attain. Those who forget the body to pursue a ‘perfect mind’ or ‘perfect soul’ have no idea where to even start. Only physical beauty is the foundation for a true higher culture of the mind and spirit as well. Only sun and steel will show you the path.”
To further illustrate the spirit BAM and BAP have cultivated in the youth I quote Odysseus/Homer
“Work was never pleasure for me, nor homekeeping thrift, which feeds good children. But to me oared ships were pleasure, and war, and well-glinted spear and arrow.”
BAP’s content (both his book and his podcast) is really only designed to reach a niche and fanatical audience. It’s not supposed to be “interesting” to academics, dissidents, gamers, etc., but rather a way of communicating to a certain type of person that will absorb his ridiculous message and reshape it into tangible POWER and ACTION.
Like he often states, BAP reaches most people through humor and his way of purposely trying to sound non-academic. We already have scholars and gifted intellectuals. His rhetoric appeals largely to athletes, bodybuilders, surf culture, jock-types. Healthy, young, talented, handsome men and women who would not typically be interested in classical disciplines or “esoteric” subjects are now more than familiar with the vast excellence of West Culture and classical antiquity.
I could obviously say much more, but ultimately I believe he (and not just him by any means) is attempting to recreate a patrician class, a nobility, the scholar-athlete, the warrior-poet, people who can lead and set the cultural standards for our nations, and also usurp the current imposter regime.
If I had to recommend any episode of Caribbean Rhythms to you, it would be episode 4. It is short, enjoyable, and remains fixed on one single topic the entire time.
Qanon is also more popular than the dissident right. It doesn’t mean we should embrace Qanon. ‘Nuff said!
Good point but the two are very different.
Qanon channeled legitimate frustration over Trump’s ineffectiveness into a soothing fantasy world. BAP recognizes that the problem with the Western youth is spiritual. Bronze Age Mindset was written as a fun, non-intellectual motivational self-help book. It promotes going for glory, not caring too much about what people think (e.g. what the cathedral says), and optimism. It’s fundamentally anti-bugman.
Interestingly here’s a essay named “Opiates for the Last Man” by Alamariu: https://newcriterion.com/issues/2009/11/opiates-for-the-last-man
Qanon was boomer while the BAP cult is young.
Qanon is cringe while the BAP cult is cool.
You should maybe consider that Qanon was able to rally a political movement that helped achieve electoral goals. More than any “pro-white” movement in America has been able to achieve recently.
It tapped into “Maga energy” and was able to actually organize and inspire the masses. Something this very podcast points out is a struggle in America. If you take a look at that accomplishment on its own I think you’ll find some value and lessons in the Qanon movement.
Scratch a BAPtist and find a promoter for the Q psyop. This is why people think BAP glows.
I agree with everything you guys said, I only meant to point out that mass appeal isn’t connected with intellectual heft, necessarily. Probably there’s a negative correlation. I think Costin is BAP, and that his work in that arena is all a brilliant money making scheme.
I have no issue taking a knee. In fact, most people are born to take a knee and have no problem doing so because they don’t want the responsibilities of leadership.
My issue – and I think Greg’s and others weary of pledging unconditional loyalty to a person in this movement – is that our leaders (the ones that have emerged so far) are very self-focused individuals.
I’m not taking a knee for some guy’s ego trip. I’m not bowing to a man who doesn’t care about my civilization and only uses his position to make a name for himself. People who put their necks on the line for such people are often betrayed.
Why do Canadians always use university as a proper noun? E.g. when I went to University. Do they only have one major university?
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