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Greg Johnson, John Morgan, and Michael Polignano reconvene for a new weekly Counter-Currents Radio podcast. This week we discuss the upcoming Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville this Saturday, censorship by Silicon Valley, and John Morgan’s recent trip to Hermannstadt (Sibiu), Transylvania to attend a Saxon reunion festival with his relatives.
Topics include:
- Introduction: 0:00
- Donor recognition: 0:42
- Unite the Right rally discussion: 1:30
- Comparing Unite the Right with May’s Charlottesville rally: 1:54
- Aims of Unite the Right: 9:05
- Airbnb’s cancellation of the accounts of rally attendees: 13:00
- Censorship and suppression via technical means: 17:15
- The need to regulate internet companies as public utilities: 19:57
- Greg wants to get an audience with PewDiePie to start a new, censorship-free YouTube: 25:11
- John’s visit to Hermannstadt: 28:23
- Shop talk: 48:00
23 comments
I gotta say that Cantwell is bad optics. Just slogged through his recent Radical Agenda and he sounds off the rails.
Most of the alt-right celebrities headlining this thing were bad optics, so many weirdos giving off federal informant vibes it seems like the feds orchestrated this to cripple the alt-right with guaranteed bad publicity. Who is this Jason Kessler fellow and why was he advertising this rally so publicly for so long in advance? The previous gathering in Lee Park was not announced to the general public and did not meet with nearly this level of counter protest. It was a success in terms of optics with its simplicity, manageable size and ideological uniformity of attendees.
Spencer tries hard to keep the alt-right from being splintered into dozens of warring factions of right wing groups that have goals other than white nationalism, but in doing so he dilutes the message of white nationalism that is central to the alt-right and gives these other sub groups publicity that doesn’t advance the goals of white nationalism. He also makes the alt-right unnecessarily vulnerable to infiltration by feds and leftists because the law of averages dictates that at least a handful of the leaders of these various subgroups are bound to be infiltrators.
Spencer is his own worst enemy. If he is the king, as he seems to be at this point, then he need to make his lords fall in line and put aside their other fringe views when “uniting” the alt-right. Those that can’t make white nationalism a priority need to iced out, “counter-signalling” be d*mned. Instead he lets them just be themselves with their cacophony of diverse and often contradictory messages, e.g. Nazi flag waving. As long as they are white and fan his balls he doesn’t scrutinize anyone too much. That’s not true leadership, that’s just trying to hold on to the title of popularity contest winner. Spencer is not the leader white nationalists need.
I am not sure how important Spencer even was to this. Spencer is a relentless polarizer. Unite the Right was an attempt to unify some of the very groups that Spencer spends his time abusing.
A good podcast. I agree on most of the comments about the “Unite the Right” event, and we’ll see what happens there.
One good point that always needs to be re-stressed is that companies like Google and Amazon need to be regulated as public utilities. Those guys are liberals so we can quote Obama to them: “You didn’t build that.” Without the American infrastructure, those companies would not exist.
Speaking on Amazon, what happened to the meme pushed by the gamesters that Bezos is about to turn “hard right” because he is now “jacked” (i.e., muscular)? I do not cite that to be petty or obstreperous, but if the Right does not call out the childish stupidity from its own side, rest assured that the Enemy will do so. It’s a type of quality control.
Explaining the differences in online traffic changes between VDARE/Amren and Counter Currents is, I believe, best as follows. A significant portion of VDARE/Amren readers are immigration restrictionist.”race realist” types and I imagine those people adopted a “we won” victory euphoria after Trump’s election and lost (temporarily?) interest in digital activism (or what passes for it). Counter Currents readers, being more hardcore, saw the election as just another step on a long road and so continued to show up. On the other hand, Google/System sees metapolitical Far Right endeavors like Counter Currents as more threatening than IQ fetishism or Sailer rambling about real estate and golf courses, hence the more recent targeted traffic-suppressing antics alluded to in the podcast.
I agree with Greg’s suggestions about what Trump should do. But if he does these things, he should go to the American people and explain what is going on, forthrightly and comprehensively. And NOT via Twitter, but by speeches, news conferences, rallies, etc. – pointing out that the whole Russia hysteria (assuming for a moment it is merely hysteria) is manufactured outrage by a System that cannot accept the outcome of the election and that wishes to impose a “soft coup” against the American electorate. This needs to be openly and repeatedly stated, backed up by facts and logic (not Trump’s usually empty bombastic ranting), and needs to be as direct and explicit as possible. If he merely fires the special prosecutor, followed by a series of late-night jackass tweets, it will make the outrage over Nixon’s “Saturday Night Massacre” look inconsequential by comparison. Trump needs to begin a hard-hitting public campaign against the “swamp” to prime his base for the steps that are required.
We do need to acknowledge that this whole fiasco started because the “alpha male” Trump showed weakness – by publicly stating that he didn’t want Hillary investigated and then by not immediately pushing back (by the methods outlined above) against the Russia narrative when the Left started tentatively pushing that hypothesis. Trump also backed off his campaign promises, including his much cited “swamp draining.” The Left smelled his weakness like sharks smelling blood in the water, and the feeding frenzy commenced.
Also, we must consider the possibility that Trump is actually really somewhat unbalanced. As someone with a great deal of knowledge about nuclear weapons, I can say that Trump’s claims to have upgraded the American arsenal since becoming President is delusional. He may have stated that he wanted it done, but it hasn’t been done, and initiatives are not progressing, and as usual, the USA fields weapons decades out of date while other nations continue to upgrade and modernize.
Finally, I express my appreciation for all your upcoming Yockey activities and again express the hope that some of that meeting material will later be made public. There is so much about Yockey that can be analyzed that a “Journal of Yockey Studies” would have been possible. As it is, Yockey fanboys like myself look forward to Bolton’s forthcoming biography.
Apparently your fears and concerns regarding the Unite the Right rally have been realized, as news organizations throughout the country are blaming the violence, at least one death, on White Supremacist and neo-Nazis hate groups. It will be interesting to see how much backlash comes from this, and how Spencer will attempt to spin it.
I listened to this podcast BEFORE the car-hits-protesters event in Charlottesville, and the first thing I thought of was Greg’s compelling (and now eerily prescient) word-picture of “the alt-right’s Altamont”.
At the time of writing there’s no reliable confirmation of who the careless driver was but to see how this will be used you just need to observe who’s rushing onto twitter and what they’re saying. From Hillary Clinton and Paul Ryan on down they’re all swooning about “right-wing hate” HATE! You can smell the nervous excitement as they grab for their keypads.
Will this be the beginning of a new assault against Steve Bannon White Nationalism? The end of any hope of RAISE Act style immigration reform?
I’m guessing the Unite the Right position will be that you have to be prepared to occupy public space and that conflict was always coming. At the moment I don’t know what to think.
Prescient. Will the title of the next episode be “Stick a Fork in It”?
Some thoughts on the program…
The establishment reaction to the Unite the Right Rally can best be described as “hysterical.” You have to ask if the System had just muzzled antifa, let the Alt Right make a few speeches, and then waved everyone goodbye, Charlottesville likely would have become a non-event. But the over-reaction + violence has turned this into a major event. It just may be an example of “lose a battle, win a war.” I’d also say that the various Alt Right groups which stood together to march and fight in the streets did more to Unite the movement than all the speeches in the world.
A quick peruse of the mainstream media shows that some of the Alt Right message is cutting through the fog: I see increasing references to “White Nationalists” as opposed to “White Supremacists.” And the opponents of the Rally can do little better than trot out the same old cliches: “bigotry,” “hate,” “nazis,” blah blah. Russia Today did a fairly objective report and there are plenty of independent videos online.
There are going to be people who otherwise have little idea about the Alt Right, but will be accessing the Internet and coming to websites like Counter-Currents. They can be open to an entirely new perspective on nationalism, race realism and identitarianism. As well, the mainstream media can be discredited.
The real enemy: it would be interesting to see who backs antifa: Globalists? Is there a Deep State conspiracy? Corporate money? And what of the real left versus the fake left? Are there old time communists who see the Revolution being hijacked by fronts for the System? And are they open to an alliance?
More people I know are saying that it is time to regulate Google and Amazon in the same manner as public utilities. These people are mainly in the libertarian to conservative spectrum. There is an implied message here that Google and Amazon are leftist in orientation and are using their monopolies to enforce ideological conformity. There’s also the matter of using the Sherman Antitrust Act to break up what have become monopolies. I think there is a deeper undertone that traditional conservatism is losing hold on more Americans. The Alt Right can move into the vacuum.
Civil rights: another thing I hear from people (and have pushed myself) is that anti-discrimination laws ought to be applied to ideology; i.e., you can not be fired for your politics. The Obama administration was pushing the removal of the “checkbox” on employment forms (asking about felony status of applicants) in the interests of anti-discrimination, so there is precedent.
Logos, ethos and pathos…true, most people will not be won over by intellectual arguments. There’s an entire psychology to insurgent recruiting and, as always, I recommend Human Factors: Considerations of Undergrounds in Insurgencies. This has lots of PSYOP/Infowar tactics which have proven their worth. It can be found online at:
https://archive.org/details/milmanual-pa-550-104-human-factor-considerations-of-undergrounds-in-in
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/735332.pdf
R. Moreland,
Have you read Daniel Byman’s paper, Understanding Proto-Insurgencies? If you haven’t, you really should. It’s available here:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP178.html
Two particularly interesting points in your post, R_Moreland.
The extension of civil rights to include one’s opinions seems like a no-brainer. If the expression of those opinions includes threats or is defamatory, most countries already have laws to deal with this. If religious affiliation is already protected as a civil right, then it would seem a small step forward to give personal opinion (no matter how unfashionable) equal protection.
Your question about ‘old time Communists’ is also relevant. While I have never regarded myself as a Communist, I can state for a fact that there are people – in Australia at least and likely elsewhere – who adhere to various forms of socialist economic beliefs and who are nationalistic. I put myself in this category. In addition to us, there are many more on the economic left who are agnostic on the national question, but who are appalled at the trajectory of the broad left into post-modernism and personal identity politics – especially at a time when the labour share of GDP continues to crash and burn across Western nations.
These sectors of the left might be open to alliances with ‘right wing’ nationalists on issues of mutual interest eg reduced immigration, tariff protection, autonomy for distinct ethno-national groups (the left in Oz has long argued for a separate nationality for indigenous Australians – and why not?)
Some on the economic left would be uncomfortable with the libertarian / small government / pro-capitalism flavour of some alt-right positions – but if that’s what floats your boat, so be it. We can agree to disagree on that for now.
I think that if we take the view that the national interest comes first, then we could engender cooperation on specific issues in the short term.
.
TO THE PATRIOTS OF CHARLOTTESVILLE:
YOU ARE THE HEROES OF OUR AGE – FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE FOR THE NOBLE AND BEAUTIFUL WHITE RACE, WHICH ALONE FOUNDED, SETTLED AND BUILT AMERICA – OUR COUNTRY FOREVER!
I am so sorry I am too old and in ill health to be out there with you. How I wish you had been around in my own ideological fighting days in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
But God Bless you for your fight for racial justice for oppressed Whites!
And know that millions of Whites not there today stand with you in moral solidarity – with our prayers, our words, our money, and when the time comes, our arms.
AMERICA FIRST! OUR PEOPLE FIRST IN ALL THINGS!
A few remarks on the Saxons and related matters from an ‘inside outsider’ in Romania:
The moves against them here were more in the nature of a general assault on social hierarchy and higher culture–and that meant on the human beings who participated in them–than of a systematic attack motivated by ethnic animus or (intra-)territorial irredentism (as in Czechoslovakia and Poland). The Romanian aristocracy, conservative intelligentsia and national bourgeoisie were treated far worse than the Saxons were as a group.
John Morgan is right that Romanians have no historical grievances against the Saxons. In fact, to this day they regard themselves as historical allies against the Hungarians (Romanians elected the egregiously corrupt Iohannis as President, after all), and it’s common to find people of the older generation who lament the the departure of the Saxons. Many of the smaller villages–and parts of the larger towns–they left were colonised by Gypsies, with the complicity of the communist state. This occurred owing in part to the state’s policy of mixing the populations and moving Gypsies into ‘settled’ life.
Romanians suffered from it too, to the extent that (I’d estimate) 10 to 15 per cent of the ‘Romanian’ population is born of recent Romanian-Gypsy admixture (the micegenation phenomenon has massively accelerated since the end of communism) and the culture of the lower-class Romanians is heavily Tsiganised. This degeneration is reflected in all sorts of ways–music, dress, social trust. I’m convinced that one reason Romanians don’t trust each other is that it’s often hard to know on phenotypic grounds whether you’re dealing with a Romanian or a ‘Romanian’: a Gypsy mischling. Also, in the absence of social hierarchy, people near the bottom tend to sink to the bottom culturally. To handle Gypsies in a society without the checks that hierarchy imposes, you have to behave like them as nearly as you can. The widespread preference among even pure-blooded Romanian for Gypsy music and dress operates below consciousness (superficially, it’s a bit like the aping of Negro ‘culture’ by lower class whites in the USA).
The communists’ real crime was not building ugly things, ruining the economy or damaging the environment; it was initiating the destruction of the relatively stable hierachies of the pre-war period, which kept Gypsies (and everybody else) in place. This hollowing-out has only been amplified in the pitiless ‘market’ economy that has been in place since 1989.
What might save the Romanians is that they belong to what I call the ‘SE European horabund’ (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and so on also partake in it) There’s a heartwarming collectivist ferocity in the souls of people who still dance the hora.
I’ve heard the Transylvanian Saxon dialect spoken; it sounds very much like Dutch.
The Saxon gathering must have been wonderful. I’m sorry I missed it.
Apart from the disaster, this rally was doomed from the start. There was no useful political strategy or purpose whatsoever behind it, just another navel-gazing fringe-group-circle-jerkfest, feeding the media with images of autistic, torch-bearing, siegheiling Nazi larping extremists. If anything, it showed how big and deep the mess is the altright got itself into.
Every time I’m inclined to think charitably of Spencer, et al., fate delivers a reminder that the immature wing of White Nationalism is by far the movement’s worst enemy. All the discouragement, propaganda, and affirmative action in the world can’t make up for the stupidity of flying swastikas or performing Nazi salutes in 2017. The excusing refrain we hear after every such debacle combines elements of “they’re just having some fun and letting out some steam” and the suggestion that this behavior destigmatizes the aforementioned symbols via desensitization. But that’s not what actually happens, is it? What happens in *actuality* is that any associated symbols are dragged (further) into social unacceptability. So that uncle or grandfather who used to mutter in annoyance when mainstream TV lambasted the Confederate flag is now wondering with furrow brow – having seen that flag alongside a swastika – whether the “liberals” have a point, after all. The “Alt-Right” likes to jeer at the Alt-Lite for its countersignaling, but must Alt-Righters make it so easy for Alt-Liters to do so?
I’m hardly a movement insider, but, having learned from Jared Taylor six years ago the righteousness of White Nationalism (and, more specifically, ethnic nationalism), I’m rather tired of seeing progress thwarted by halfwits and socially-inept misfits. The White race doesn’t have time for tantrums.
I respectfully disagree. I thought Spencer did great. Have you seen this video? In hindsight, or from the sidelines, it’s certainly possible to discern ways to improve upon the planning. But, do we have to do everything textbook perfect before we attempt anything at all? I submit what what’s really making people anxious is not Richard Spencer, but what this has revealed is just how clear it is the powers of the state are not on the side of White people.
https://youtu.be/ZVyOJ9NOmjc
Thanks for the courteous response, Theodora. One of the many attractive elements of this site is that one can generally expect civilized disagreement when opinions collide.
I listened to the podcast after I’d posted my comment, and Greg (I think it was he) brought up an interesting point – the danger of this event was that it was open to unvetted participants. To me, the major failure of U the R was not the violence – it was the juxtaposition of the swastika and Nazi salute with the Confederate flag, the “Right”, and Whiteness in general. This is not a statement on the morality of the swastika or Nazi salute; it’s a statement on the *propriety* thereof. Now, I don’t much love the idea of rallies being open only to pre-screened attendees, but the Alt-Right is clearly not ready for prime time… and I get a perpetually-increasing sense that it never will be. Regardless, unless and until that “movement” has grown up, each and every would-be participant in each and every public event should be sat down and told in no uncertain terms that Nazi LARPing would render them persona non grata at any future events.
I’ve gladly defended the morality of ethnic nationalism on public forums. What I cannot manage to do is defend the idiocy of the Alt-Right.
I hear you. I just think we’re going to be tarred with the usual epithets whatever we do. The lying is everywhere and relentless. The Alt-Rt protest was directed, after all, at the removal of a Confederate General’s statue. It’s clearly akin to removing any valorisation of the bravery of which European men are capable; better to turn them all into eunuchs. This is from a recent TOO piece on Dresden:
“While all over Germany little brass plaques set into foot-paths outside the homes once inhabited by Jews reminds Germans of their guilt (the most common word in the details of their fate being ‘emordet’ [murdered] and a lavish Holocaust museum stands accusingly in the center of their capital city), not one stone exists in memoriam of the millions of Germans who perished — and in the case of Dresden and every other city that was carpet-bombed, emordet — in the Second World War and for several years afterwards. (For the full horror, Goodrich’s Hellstorm is required reading.) Because of suppressed knowledge, it’s unlikely that the millions of German POWs, robbed of that status, and perishing in Eisenhower’s death camps are even mentioned. While the landscapes of the victors are dotted with war memorials you will find no such tribute to the vast number of German men, and in the end, boys, who fought with superhuman bravery and gave their lives for their people and nation. It doesn’t matter that, in the end, ragged and starving, they fought to the last bullet simply for each other and to protect their people fleeing an unimaginably bestial horde being urged on by Comrade Ehrenburg: “break the racial pride of these German women” and “kill, kill, kill!” There is however a war memorial in the Harz Mountains town of Bad Harzburg. It commemorates the soldiers who fought and died in the Franco-Prussian war of 1870–71. This is the last war about which Germans have a right to express pride.”
You’re right, and it’s inaccurate to label all on the racial Right as Nazis, as the media is wont to do – but at least it’s nice when we can point out that they’re using “Nazi” as an epithet. And when exposed, that dishonesty redounds the the racial Right’s benefit. But in this case, it actually is an accurate label for some of the participants in Unite the Right. In my judgment, any attempt at rehabilitation of Nazi symbolism denotes a slew of negative personality traits on the part of the attempter. That horse died a long time ago, and it’s not coming back… The morons who throw these salutes and wave their flags are apparently oblivious to the fact that the vast majority of the country does not listen to The Daily Shoah or read The Daily Stormer. A sociopolitical movement relying on fools like these is in serious trouble.
If the White race recovers from its suicidality, it will be in spite of the Alt-Right; not because of it.
Charlottesville Ragnarok:
http://eginotes.blogspot.com/2017/08/charlottesville-ragnarok.html
Meanwhile Trump – you know, the “God Emperor” who has never uttered a negative public statement about Antifa – has denounced White nationalism.
How’s that “4-D chess” going? The only ones being checkmated are us.
Yes, stick a fork in it:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13/charlottesville-rally-organizer-chased-from-press-conference-by-protesters.html
I’ve been warning against the Alt Right for months. Having racial nationalism as a movement completely associated with this “brand” is going to ruin us all. While I’ll declare solidarity with the principle of Unite the Right, that comes with critical analysis. And the critical analysis tells me that the Alt Right brand isn’t working out. On my blog I have, repeatedly, declared my opposition to the Alt Right’s pretensions of hegemony.
The more activists do the same, and quickly, the better off we’ll all be.
Here’s what we need to see: the Alt Right celebs who were going to speak at Charlottesville give their speeches on social media, then upload the video around the Internet. There is going to be a buzz of interest generated from the Charlottesville battle, and here’s a chance to reach a much wider audience than whoever would have showed up at Lee Park. There’s also the “forbidden fruit” factor, attracting people who want to see what the government tried to suppress.
So, Richard, Mike, Jason and all the rest…let’s get the video rolling!
Have you tried simply sending PewDiePie a private message on his YouTube or Twitter account?
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