Counter-Currents
1,200 words
Over the last two years, the Right-wing youth scene in America has been stormed by the Groypers, centered on Nick Fuentes. What is a Groyper? The Groypers are generally young, male, passionate, Catholic, extremely online, loyal (at times to a fault) to Fuentes, and ardently America First. I count myself among them.
Some see them as a promising vanguard, others as a meme that blossomed but is now burning out. They certainly have potential, as evinced by the ritual humiliation that they visited upon the Conservatism Inc. crowd during the initial “Groyper Wars,” during which young patriots asked scathing questions of fake conservatives who could not articulate good answers. Several articles further documenting the Groyper Wars can be found on this website and elsewhere.
Over the past two years, the Groypers have garnered several high-profile endorsements. These range from Jared Taylor, Alex Jones, Michelle Malkin, Jon Miller, Representative Paul Gossar, candidate Lauren Witzkie, and former Representative Steve King. All of these people took a risk in endorsing such a young and rambunctious faction. Many of them have undoubtedly paid the price for it, one way or another. Nonetheless, they have staunchly stood by us through thick and thin.
In many ways, the Groypers can be seen as the intellectual progeny of these more mature political figures. But this presents a problem. Consider how in the military the conduct of enlisted troops is said to reflect upon their leaders. Likewise, how Groypers conduct ourselves inherently reflects upon those who endorse us. I don’t want those leaders who have joined us in the trenches of this brutal culture war to be disappointed in our conduct, so we need to discuss some serious problems that have developed in the movement. These problems should be eliminated, not embraced as a brand or a culture.
The first problem is those Groypers who have emerged from the puerile online subcultures of “gamers” (as in online gaming, not picking up chicks) and “NEETs” (Not in Education, Employment, or Training). Yes, most of us share that “cultural background,” for lack of a better term. A touch of gamer culture can be endearing to outsiders, like a pinch of spice in a dish. But most Groypers have no idea how bizarre, off-putting, and unhealthy it can seem to more mature people. Endorsing America First politics carries enormous costs, which is why many resist our message and why others will support us privately but not publicly. We only increase resistance to our ideas by bundling them with the culture of spindly, college-aged kids gaming past 2 AM, eating junk food, and sniggering over elaborate private jokes. Groypers claim to want to save the West, but they seem more interested in saving imaginary kingdoms. Frankly, we need to grow up. Social decline is accelerating. Days can happen in years, but since 2020, years have happened in days. We need to get serious.
You can buy Greg Johnson’s Toward a New Nationalism here
Second, there are Groypers who actually brag about consuming junk food, not working out, and not going outdoors, because in their view healthy lifestyles are “Leftist.” It is a beautiful example of reactionary thinking leading to self-defeating behavior. Consider how much success the hippies achieved by emphasizing the positive aspects of their subculture. How many otherwise apolitical people were persuaded to supporting far-Left politics because of the hippies’ music, their supposed freedom, their unique style, and their anti-war stance? Decades later, John Lennon’s songs still arguably influence American culture just as much as George Soros’ shekels. If we are to push for alternative policies, we need an alternative culture, and that culture must be based on positives, not negatives. Nationalists in Europe have enjoyed much more success than in America in large part due to their positive culture. There is perhaps no greater “L” imaginable than Groypers allowing greasy-haired potheads from the 1960s to surpass them in culture-building.
Third, Groypers need to figure out how to coexist with the opposite sex. Yes, women today are for the most part trash — but so are men. This anti-woman attitude is often purely a reaction to the Left’s demonization of the straight white male. But extreme man-hate on the Left does not justify extreme woman-hate on the Right. Frankly, I find Qtards less embarrassing than maladapted zoomer weaklings who dismiss physical fitness as “gay” and blame women for not being able to get a date.
A related problem is the oftentimes false dichotomy between “incel” and “volcel.” “Incel” is short for “involuntarily celibate,” and “volcel” is “voluntarily celibate.” I am against using these Left-wing canards, but it is difficult to claim they are canards when some of our people unironically or post-ironically use them to describe themselves. The problem intensifies when you realize that 99% of the time, supposed volcels are the very definition of incel. You can’t be a volcel if you never get the opportunity to break your celibacy, just as you can’t claim to be voluntarily fasting when you’re lost in a desert with no food. There are some who are actual volcels, but they would likely never call themselves that. Why isn’t “I’m saving myself for marriage” good enough, as it was for centuries? We should not adopt, much less embrace, the retarded lingo of our enemies.
Fifth, Groypers are not exactly anti-intellectual, because they are willing to entertain radical ideas, but their intellectual development is stunted by staring at screens as opposed to reading books. This mentality will prevent otherwise effective members of our movement from reaching their full potential. This has been exacerbated by the YouTube personality culture which, while being a good way to learn about current events, does not usually stimulate the mind. I was never a serious reader until a few months ago. Now I realize that reading profound books actually builds up the mind in a way that videos and tweets cannot. Reading is like forging a sword, whereas following current events online at best merely sharpens its edge. This spirit of learning should be fostered.
Bronze Age Pervert argues that physical self-improvement and leading by aesthetics are among the most important things individuals can do. Surely producing a modern Marx of the Right is worth a legion of Hyperborean bodybuilders. I grant that action should be valued above all else. I grant that being wary of pseudo-intellectualism absolutely has it place. But the fact remains that becoming a Marx of the Right cannot be achieved in an anti-intellectual movement.
These observations are not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, but if they happen to describe you, remember: You don’t have to be that way. My purpose here is not to put you down, but to raise you up. Fuentes himself, after his show began to gain popularity, warned that the influx of viewers would lower the average quality. And indeed, even though Fuentes has gone from a few hundred to tens of thousands of live viewers, it is still the same hundred or so high-quality young men among his followers who show up at national events. Apparently, everyone else is playing Fortnite, watching anime, or living vicariously through a livestreamer.
If you want to change that situation, start by changing yourself. If you want to improve the world, begin by improving yourself.
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18 comments
It is very clear who you are talking about with this paragraph:
“Second, there are Groypers who actually brag about consuming junk food, not working out, and not going outdoors, because in their view healthy lifestyles are “Leftist.””
Nick Fuentes, the leader of the Groypers. You didn’t name him in your criticism probably because you’re worried of antagonizing 90% of the Groypers, but they’re not stupid, they know who you’re talking about.
This article reads like “Hello fellow Groypers.”
Thanks for explaining the meaning of ‘groyper’ for those of us who are older and had no idea of this group or what they believe and are attached to — a grouping which seems widespread. You have done a great job, first, in explaining what they actually do to land within that grouping, and secondly, how to turn their life around and get away from doing most of those things. A brilliant, and kindly-explained reasoning why there are other ways of being conservative rebels. Coming from me, it would have sounded like a nagging schoolteacher.
I’m an old mofo but I know of the Groypers, and what I see I like. I loved the Groypers following around Charley Kirk, The Zioclops, and little ben shapiro and asking them the important America First questions.
I have to ask why Catholic? And how Catholic? If it’s a simple, “I’m Catholic” that’s okay but if you recite Hail Marys and click beads, then I say no. Wouldn’t you rather cast a wide net and bring in Protestants, Pagans, Agnostics?
The author thinks that people are put off by the Groypers’ immaturity and not their beliefs. Then why is it that almost everyone who doesn’t want anything to do with them does so for their beliefs? All I ever hear is how they are anti-Semitic woman-haters. I don’t hear anyone say that they agree with the Groypers but won’t identify as one because they play video games.
People who prefer adult activities are no longer taken more seriously than people who play video games, thanks to the boomers (sorry, Jim). When I was growing up, my friend’s parents went to rock concerts and acted like they were teenagers. Maturity is not valued anymore. It was the boomers who first made it cool to prolong adolescence into middle age. There is no sense anymore that we move away from childish things to adult things, because that would compromise our freedom.
I come from the Manosphere, and from the way you’re describing, the newcomers among the Groypers could benefit from some of the things we’ve had to say. For example, physical fitness and healthy lifestyles are NOT strongly correlated with leftists. Also, young guys don’t have to be lonely, and the Manosphere tells you how to improve your social life.
From my observations, it seems like a considerable quotient of what are now Groyper types—you know, race-denying incel traditionalist Catholics or OrthoBros—were Alt-Right three years ago and Manosphere six years ago. Many of them appear to have no ideas or convictions of their own and will blindly follow whatever seems trendy.
Sure, some of the Groypers are 12 years old and are new to all this, but there seems to be a large chunk of guys who go wherever the tide shifts. Maybe in three years from now, the hot new thing will be some form of Anti-Semitic Yoga.
But as far as encouraging them to keep in shape and at least figure out what would be appealing to women, I think the Manosphere served them best.
Yoga, by definition, is anti-Semitic.
Perhaps implicitly. But son, believe me when I tell you that you haven’t experienced pure anti-Semitic yoga until you’ve held the Downward Jew position for 6 minutes or signed off with a humble “Namastazi.”
The Groypers are not race deniers. They deny that they are racist. They deny that they are white nationalist. But they do not deny race difference in IQ and whatnot.
The thing a lot of people do not understand is that Nick Fuentes will lie about what he really believes for strategic purposes but I assure you that his followers know what’s up and just “play along”. He knows where the landmines are and deliberately chooses not to step on them. He’ll dance around those landmines all day and let you know that he knows where they are but will not step on them. He doesn’t make it easy for his enemies.
Nick explains his entire philosophy on optics in this video. This video is required viewing before criticizing Nick. Watch it and if you still have a problem, fair play but watch it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1td_7AorGZw
Nick’s critics can be broken down into three categories:
1. People who do not understand the above (forgivable).
2. People who understand the above but pretend not to (most of his critics IMO).
3. People who understand the above and find it morally reprehensible (disagree but fair play).
People who do not follow Nick closely will often freak out over things he says but people who watch him closely know he is playing a very deep game. He’s not “leading people astray”. Again, I assure you his fans know what is up. He is playing an extremely tactical game, they know this and “play along”.
I said: “From my observations, it seems like a considerable quotient…”
You respond as if they’re all the same.
Not from my observations. A lot of them are into EMJ, who probably denies race more often than he has solid bowel movements.
Jim, if you can fathom for even one second that Travis will get off his high horse and acknowledge as much rather than double down on Fuentes proselytizing then you haven’t been paying attention.
More importantly among the many consequences of constantly side stepping the race question is the mixed racial background of many a groyper and their own interpretation of it. It’s gotten to the point where they could pass a polygraph test when asked if they consider themselves to be white. All the while most of the racially persevered groypers will unironically cheer them on. This is what Travis means by not leading our people astray apparently.
Yet as soon as someone dares point any of it out you’re nothing less than a wignat concern trolling. I can’t wait for this entire house of cards to come tumbling down and it will eventually, most likely sooner rather than later, and ironically enough entirely of Nick’s own doing e.g. Theroux doc.
We already have a “Marx from the right” his name is Friedrich Nietzsche and far superior to Marx. You should read him.
I’m too old to know much about this phenomenon, but whatever moves young whites towards race realism and tribal identity is a good thing.
The line about “reading books” is true and important. Here is a list I think will help. I have bolded what I consider to be the most formatively and educationally important texts (which does not mean I’m claiming they’re necessarily “the best” intellectually).
Make sure every Groyper has at least read Taylor, White Identity, and Johnson, The White Nationalist Manifesto. Duke, My Awakening, is interesting, and pitched at a basic level. These are good intros.
Beyond that, they should read:
Robertson, The Dispossessed Majority; The Ethnostate;
Evola, Revolt Against the Modern World;
Yockey, Imperium;
O’Meara, New Culture, New Right;
Faye, Archaeofuturism;
Rushton, Race, Evolution and Behavior;
Salter, On Genetic Interests;
Pearson, Heredity and Humanity;
Lynn, Dysgenics; Eugenics; The Global Bell Curve;
Levin, Why Race Matters;
Connor, Ethnonationalism;
Bookman, The Demographic Struggle for Power;
Nelson, America Balkanized;
Brimelow, Alien Nation;
Burnham, Suicide of the West;
Trifkovic, The Sword of the Prophet;
Huntington, Who We Are;
Goodrich, Hellstorm; Scalp Dance;
Bacque, Other Losses;
Francis, Beautiful Losers; Revolution from the Middle;
Roth, The Perils of Diversity;
MacDonald, A People That Shall Dwell Alone; Separation and its Discontents; especially The Culture of Critique;
Murray, Human Accomplishment; Human Diversity;
Caldwell, The Age of Entitlement;
and, for novels,
Conrad, Heart of Darkness; The Secret Agent;
Dostoyevsky, Demons;
Hamsun, The Growth of the Soil;
Wolfe, The Bonfire of the Vanities;
Raspail, The Camp of the Saints.
As I am also a conservative (how can someone claim to be “conservative” whilst being indifferent to white preservation?) I would also like to see more young white patriots reading the following:
Kirk, The Conservative Mind; The Roots of American Order;
Gottfried, The Conservative Movement; After Liberalism; Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt; The Vanishing Tradition;
Buchanan, Death of the West; Suicide of a Superpower;
Conway, A Farewell to Marx;
Fleming, The Politics of Human Nature;
Courtois et al, The Black Book of Communism;
Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Leftism Revisited;
Mises, Socialism.
There are many, many other books related to the white man’s cause that an aspiring young white patriot could and should read. I’m sure I’ve forgotten or neglected a bunch. But read these 54 (I think) books, and I suggest you would be more knowledgeable than 99% or more of all other Americans on issues at the intersection of race and politics. Consider a subscription to The Occidental Quarterly, and perhaps also to Chronicles. Supplement these books with reading as much of the back material archived at the Chronicles, TOQ, Counter-Currents, American Renaissance, and Occidental Observer websites.
I think what is decried is not physical fitness, but the gym rat/bodybuilder lifestyle which is admittedly a product of urban and decadent civilization, whereas the finicky approach to food is indeed a hipster characteristic, but one which the right should adopt and repurpose into a discriminating palate.
Young, white men simply have no truly public and “approved of” role models. This void is creating the chaos of what they should and shouldn’t be doing. Even men I admire, like DeSantis, lose me when they start in with the Jewish stuff. So these young men see Nick Fuentes and they have a little hope. But they also see him being hunted by one side and shamed by the other. It’s a shit-show.
I’ll admit I don’t put much stock in these types but ANY movementarian activity on the right is preferable tot total stagnation, especially among young people. Young white males engaging in dissident rightist organization is a good sign. Groypers are definitely not the end goal or winning formula for white interests, but they might be a minor stepping stone.
We don’t need “groupers” we need Patriots.
Thought it was gropers?
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