Interview with Ruuben Kaalep

3,845 words

Note: This interview with Ruuben Kaalep was conducted in April when he was a member of EKRE (the Conservative People’s Party of Estonia). Since then, a major split has occurred within the party, after the leadership of EKRE decided to expel several ethnonationalist figures, Ruuben Kaalep among them. He has since co-founded a new political party, the Estonian Nationalists and Conservatives (ERK).

ERK is committed to further advancing the principles of ethnonationalism and national sovereignty that were foundational to EKRE, but with a stronger focus on ethnofuturism, deep ecology, Intermarium, and the ancient European heritage. For more details on our vision and policies, please visit the ERK Programme (in English: https://eerk.ee/programme_en/ )

James Edwards: Five years ago, at just 25 years old, you were elected to the Estonian Parliament. How did you manage to accomplish such a feat at such a young age?

Ruuben Kaalep: My journey in Estonian politics began long before my election to the parliament. I was driven by my sense of duty and responsibility towards my country, my nation, my ancestors and descendants. As a teenager, I was already active in nationalist activism, and in 2012, I co-founded the Conservative People’s Party of Estonia (EKRE). Additionally, I was elected several times as the leader of the youth movement Blue Awakening (Sinine Äratus), which played a crucial role in promoting nationalist ideas and values among young people in Estonia.

Despite my youth, I was already a spokesperson for the nationalist worldview in Estonia. I made my first, unsuccessful bid for parliament at the age of 21 (minimum age), and two years later I was elected into my city council. These campaigns gave me a lot of political experience that was very useful in the parliamentary elections of 2019.

Despite the attempts by the mainstream media to portray me as an extremist, particularly following my appearance at the American Renaissance conference in 2016, these efforts actually backfired and brought me support from many Estonian people. The ideas expressed at AmRen resonate with a large portion of Estonian population, who share concerns about issues such as national identity, immigration, and cultural preservation. Rather than alienating voters, the media scrutiny highlighted my commitment to defending our nation’s values and sovereignty, which resonated strongly with many Estonians.

What issues did you run on?

Throughout my campaign, my election slogan consisted of three core principles: “Estonian nation, Estonian nature, Estonian independence.” These principles are also central to the Blue Awakening movement. During my term in the parliament, I fought hard for all of these issues.

I firmly believe, as do the majority of Estonians, that nationhood is intrinsically tied to ethnicity, and that our national identity must be preserved through policies aimed at increasing the proportion of ethnic Estonians among our population. With just 67% ethnic Estonians, one of the lowest rates in Europe, this issue demands urgent attention.

For me, nationalism, conservatism, and environmentalism are inseparable. My actions in the parliament helped to strengthen protections for our sacred groves, ancient natural sites revered since pre-Christian times. True nationalism rejects the exploitation of our environment for the profit of foreign interests. I defended our forests from indiscriminate clear-cutting, that is currently happening in Estonia. I strongly believe in the deep connection between blood and soil, and to make it possible for Estonians to remain Estonians, we need to preserve our environment and heritage landscapes that have carried our forefathers from time immemorial.

In the parliament, I was a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and that allowed me to focus on safeguarding our national independence and sovereignty. I believe that true sovereignty begins with regaining our cultural and spiritual consciousness. As a convinced ethnonationalist, I advocated for the recognition of ethnostates and self-determination as a fundamental right of every nation. These are the principles that Estonian ethnostate was built on in 1918, restored in 1991, and which should guide our foreign policy.

In addition, I prioritized revitalizing our national economy, freeing it gradually from the grip of foreign banking system and multinational corporations. In conclusion, my campaign centered on addressing key challenges facing Estonia, and I believe they resonated strongly with the voters as well.

Your party, the Conservative People’s Party, has been described as nationalist and right-wing. It is also currently the second most powerful party in Estonia. What makes the party so attractive to voters?

The Conservative People’s Party of Estonia (EKRE) resonates with voters because it offers a clear alternative to the liberal democratic status quo and advocates for policies that prioritize the interests of ordinary Estonians. Our party is committed to protecting Estonia’s national identity, sovereignty, and cultural heritage, while also addressing pressing issues such as immigration, security, and economic development. We believe in putting Estonians first and ensuring that our country remains a safe and prosperous homeland for future generations of ethnic Estonians and friendly Estophiles.

Additionally, a significant factor in EKRE’s appeal to voters lies in the disillusionment many Estonians feel towards the West. During the Soviet occupation, the West was idealized by Estonians, and in the 1990s, there was a strong desire to emulate Western values and lifestyles. However, as time has passed, many Estonians have come to recognize the negative impacts of globalization, urbanization, mass immigration, and mass culture on our unique national identity and cultural heritage. EKRE’s stance against these forces resonates with people who seek to preserve what is distinct and valuable about Estonian society.

Coupled with the popularity and sustained success of similar parties, like Vlaams Belang in Belgium, should we have reason to believe that such ideas are once again becoming ascendant in Europe?

Western Europe has long neglected the deeper understanding of national identity, the importance of roots, ancestors, language, and traditions. These fundamental aspects have been forgotten or ridiculed, not only by our enemies from the leftist or liberal camp but also by conservatives who fail to grasp the depth and profoundness of ethnic roots. This has created an unnatural situation where modern urbanized cosmopolitan Westerners sense a profound lack within themselves. This lack, deeply rooted in every nation’s collective unconscious, is beginning to resurface.

The rise of parties like Vlaams Belang, EKRE and others across Europe reflects a growing disillusionment with traditional political elites and a desire for change among many citizens. As people increasingly recognize the erosion of their cultural identity and traditional values, they are turning to parties that prioritize national sovereignty, ethnic preservation, and the well-being of their own people. This resurgence of nationalism means a shift away from the globalist agenda and towards a rediscovered appreciation for the unique identities of European nations, encompassing our cultural, genetic and linguistic heritage.

Compared to the multicultural hellscape of so many major American cities, a place like Tallinn (Estonia’s capital) is breathtakingly beautiful. How have Estonians been able to preserve their cultural heritage?

Estonians take immense pride in our heritage and have worked tirelessly to preserve it throughout our history. Our strong sense of national identity, rooted in our language, traditions, and connection to our land, is the basis of our resilience. Additionally, Estonia’s small population and homogenous society have allowed us to maintain a strong national identity and preserve our heritage in the face of external pressures.

One key factor in preserving our heritage is the tradition of native-language education, dating back to the 17th century. Estonia’s village schools quickly established our nation as one of the most literate in Europe. Remarkably, our oldest university predates Harvard and became an Estonian-language institution right after Estonia first declared independence. During that time, Estonian was the smallest language in the world to have its own university. Education still plays a crucial role in transmitting our heritage to future generations. Estonia’s educational system incorporates comprehensive programs on national history, language, and traditions, instilling a sense of appreciation and responsibility for preserving our cultural heritage from an early age.

As a result of generations of tireless efforts of Estonian writers, poets, and intellectuals, every great classical work of world literature is available in Estonian. We have always known that the respect and understanding of other cultures and one’s own culture go hand in hand. Such deep cultural work is what allowed Estonians to regain ethnic consciousness in the 19th century, and to start building our own free country. And during the harsh years of the Soviet occupation, the metapolitical struggle of our artists, writers, musicians and philosophers was what kept the ethnic identity alive, and allowed it to strongly and massively resurface the moment when the Soviet power waned in the 1980s – and thus began the famous Singing Revolution.

This is not to downplay the importance of physical and armed struggle for Estonian homeland, which has also lasted for centuries. The memories of our ancestors’ heroic battles against the overwhelming forces of Crusaders and Russian invaders since the Middle Ages remained deep in our folklore and were passed down for many centuries. These legends inspired Estonians to fight in the War of Independence 1918–1920, and during World War II, to join the guerrillas known as the Forest Brothers, and to serve in the Estonian Legion fighting against the Red Army. And these memories, in turn, helped to keep alive the metapolitical struggle during the latter half of the Soviet occupation, even though none of this was allowed to talk about publicly – which, of course, made these grandfathers’ stories even more precious.

To what extent has the Great Replacement that is taking place in the United States and Western Europe impacted Estonia?

Estonians have already endured a great replacement during the Soviet occupation. The horrors of World War II and the subsequent communist regime led to the loss of close to 20% of our population. Many fell victim to communist genocide and deportations to Siberia, while others fled to Western countries in search of refuge. In their place, hundreds of thousands of immigrants were forcibly brought in from the vast Soviet empire, leading to a demographic shift in certain regions of Estonia where the Estonian population was literally replaced with Russian-speakers. Before World War II, Estonians comprised 88% of the population, but by 1989, this figure had fallen to just 61%. The threat of becoming a minority was very real for us, and we have seen many of our fellow Finno-Ugric peoples under Russian rule fall victim to that fate, as they face complete extinction within this century, after having become minorities.

Through patriotic policies implemented in free Estonia, we managed to raise the proportion of ethnic Estonians in the country to 69% by 2011. But then the appearance of liberal policies began to reverse this trend. Like many European countries, Estonia has grappled with demographic changes in recent years, including emigration, new immigration, and declining birth rates. By 2021, the share of ethnic Estonians had once again fallen, this time to 67%. During EKRE’s tenure as a governing party from 2019 to 2021, we implemented a comprehensive set of policies aimed at halting this decline. These measures included measures to curb the influx of cheap labor, incentivize the return of Estonians living abroad, and support young families to alleviate the need for burdensome bank loans to secure housing. Unfortunately, these nationalist policies were reversed when liberals regained power.

We are in a very vulnerable situation, since Estonia’s population is only 1.3 million. The longstanding saying that every Estonian must stand for ten people, in terms of achievements and contributions, has historically held true. However, the demographic trends observed in Western Europe pose an existential threat to our very physical survival. We have a deep understanding of this threat, having witnessed the erosion of our own national identity and the gradual extinction of our brotherly Finno-Ugric nations who are unfortunate enough to live in territory ruled by Russia. It is imperative as Estonian nationalists that we take decisive action to counter these trends, since our very survival as a people is at stake.

What are the biggest political and social concerns that most Estonians have?

In Estonia today, our main worries encompass both external and internal challenges that shape our nation’s future. At the forefront of our concerns lies the issue of national security and defense. The Russian invasion of Ukraine and accompanying hybrid attacks against the Baltic countries threaten us very acutely and physically. To safeguard our sovereignty, Estonians, myself included, stand ready in organizations like the Defence League, a well-trained voluntary militia that is ready to defend our homeland alongside the regular armed forces. Estonia has also always retained the mandatory conscription for young men.

Yet, even as we fortify our defenses, we must confront the pressing challenges on our domestic front. Estonia has recently experienced the highest inflation in the EU, which casts a feeling of uncertainty over many livelihoods. Together with ill-conceived policies such as the EU’s “green deal”, which has disrupted our energy sector without any true environmental benefit, our economic landscape is under strain. A large part of Estonia’s economy is controlled by foreign capital. At the time when Estonia’s economy is in recession, the Swedish-owned banks are only raising their profits at the cost of Estonian people. The farmers are quitting, small businesses are going bankrupt all over the country, while the government is only focusing on the residents of the big cities.

This brings us to another very pressing topic: urbanization, threatening both our environmental landscapes and traditional rural ways of life, which are essential to Estonian culture. The policies of the liberal government are creating a gap and divide between cities and countryside, both in economical as well as cultural terms. As more and more people move to cities, mass culture encroaches, diluting our unique identity as Estonian people. The liberal government is currently actively shutting down longstanding village schools that have served communities for centuries. Moreover, there is a growing belief among liberals that rural living is becoming increasingly obsolete, with cities being perceived as the sole space for normal people.

Additionally, immigration, integration, and the preservation of our ethnic makeup are fundamental parts of our national discourse. Most Estonian people remain true to our commitment to preserving our ancestral identity. We know that we need to stay true to who we are.

Your nation sits in a very interesting corner of the world that shares a border with Russia. You view the Russo-Ukrainian conflict differently than most dissidents in America do. Please explain.

Estonia has the historical experience of 50 years of Soviet occupation, but this was preceded by two centuries of forced oppression by the Russian Empire, and this, in turn, was preceded by more than 40 recorded invasions of Estonia from the east since the 11th century. Therefore we have no illusions about the deeply entrenched imperialist mindset within the Moscow empire, no matter if it is Czarist, Communist or Putinist. The imperial identity of Moscow makes it an existential threat to neighboring countries. This experience resonates with every nation that has shared a border with Russia. Thus, no sane person in Eastern Europe would choose Russian occupation over European integration; the choice is clear.

Therefore we stand also in support of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Estonians across the political spectrum absolutely condemn Russia’s aggression. As nationalists, we recognize Ukraine’s right to self-determination as an ethnostate of the Ukrainian people, which echoes our commitment to preserving national identities and resisting external intervention.

I completely understand the American non-interventionist position in regards to conflicts outside the Western hemisphere. It is a natural counter-reaction to the stupid and irresponsible wars in the Middle East that the US became involved in, which were never in the interest of the American people. What I cannot understand, however, is the idolization of post-Soviet Russia as a traditionalist country, coupled with the dismissal of Ukraine’s strong and growing nationalist movement as globalist puppets. The brave Ukrainian men and women fighting on the frontline are doing more to save the European peoples and our race, than any political activist ever could. If there is a White country in the world where ethnic and racial nationalism are completely accepted in society, it is Ukraine. Say what you will about president Zelensky, but the collective will of the people matters far more than individual leadership, because it is the Ukrainian people who collectively have refused to surrender their country to the Russian sphere of influence.

Many Estonians have personal connections with those serving on the frontlines of Ukraine’s struggle for independence. Estonian volunteers have joined the fight alongside their Ukrainian brothers-in-arms. As a Member of Parliament, I visited war-torn Ukraine in August 2022, and I saw the destroyed cities of Bucha and Irpin, which stand in ruins as testimony to the war crimes reminiscent of the genocidal Red Army of World War II. I visited wounded Ukrainian soldiers in a military hospital. I will never forget the sacred oath given by soldiers of the Azov regiment on the burial of their female comrade, who fell in the battle of Mariupol. Of course, with my fellow nationalist MP, we didn’t go empty-handed, but for the fighters of Azov we gifted two reconnaissance drones that later became useful in battle.

These are ties forged in blood. This is what matters, and not the intellectual exercises of Western armchair strategists.

If you could author the ending of the war, what outcome would you like to see?

The best thing that could come out of this war would be the emergence of an independent alliance comprising Central and Eastern European states. Ukrainians are growing more and more disillusioned with the US and NATO. And why shouldn’t they, given that at the moment when Ukraine has only one month share of surface-to-air missiles for the protection of their civilian population against Russian terror, instead of redirecting the Western arms industry to help Ukraine, the largest majority of American and German weapons go to Israel to enable the genocide of Palestinians? It is becoming more clear that in order to defend our countries against Russia effectively, we need an alliance that would be independent of the globalist structures of NATO and EU.

I have been the foremost advocate in Estonia for such an alliance for years, especially during my tenure in the Foreign Affairs Committee. Referred to by the Polish as Intermarium, and aligned with concepts like the Three Seas Initiative, this vision extends to the geographic heart of Europe – which could aptly be named Middle-earth.

This coalition, encompassing the countries between the Baltic, Black, and Adriatic Seas, could economically and militarily be able to rival Russia. Even more importantly, it would serve as a bastion of European culture, preserving the part of Europe that has best retained its national instincts and traditions, sheltering it from the pervasive influence of American mass culture. An independent alliance between the three seas could also support the efforts of the descendants of Europeans worldwide. All of this of course presumes a peaceful resolution to the Russo-Ukrainian war that respects Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. This would involve the withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory, and Russian acceptance that Ukraine should be free to choose its own geopolitical path regardless of what Moscow calls its strategic interests.

As for the future of Russia, I am mainly concerned about the self-determination of indigenous populations like the Finno-Ugrians. While some, such as Vepsians, Izhorians or Mansi, have been pushed to the brink of extinction, others, such as Erzya, Mari and Udmurts, have a strong enough national identity that Russian authorities recently began a crackdown on their alleged separatism, sending many cultural activists to prisons according to Russian hate speech law. As custodians of Finno-Ugric heritage, Estonia, Finland, and Hungary have a vital obligation to support their eastern brothers in their quest for self-rule and ethnic preservation.

What are your plans for future activism…

I decided early on during my parliamentary career not to seek another term right after. I believe during those four years, I achieved best what was possible under the times. I have been proven right later. The parliament is locked in a deadlock situation between liberal and conservative parties, and the political debate there is becoming more and more superficial. I said goodbye to the towers of Tallinn and returned to the South Estonian wilderness and countryside.

That allowed me to focus again on the metapolitical work, and I currently chair the foundation “Estonia of Estonians”, which most importantly oversees the publication of nationalist news and opinion portal Koiduaeg. I am also a member of the council of Integration Foundation, which deals with the questions of integrating non-Estonians into Estonian society, and I represent the nationalist voice in that institution. (For some weird reason, the Estonian Jewish community vocally opposed my appointment to that position, but they were powerless to stop me.)

As a former Member of the Estonian Parliament and a proud Estonian patriot, I remain committed to advocating for policies and initiatives that promote our national interests. I have a unique experience in grassroots organizing, political engagement, and public advocacy, which I have a duty to put in service of my nation. Last week, I was also elected the chairman of EKRE’s local chapter, in which position I plan to advance community-based direct democracy, protect the local environment and retain the uniqueness of South Estonian culture.

Yet I recognize that the greatest contribution I can make is in fostering a deep appreciation for our culture and history. I am doing it both through creative expression and educational outreach. Our greatest goal is to ensure that our heritage endures and thrives for generations to come. In the end, the only thing that matters, is if we can pass on our heritage to the coming generations. This will be my main mission for the coming years, beyond the realm of politics.

…and how can Estonia play a role in the reclamation of Europe’s destiny?

Estonia’s role lies in its unique preservation of ancient European culture, worldview and spirituality, because we have retained deep in our subconscious something that was lost in Western Europe centuries ago. Within Estonian soul survives a profound connection to our ancestors, not the least thanks to the pre-Christian traditions that have endured through the ages. This fundamentally animistic outlook on life, which in our country is very well able to coexist with Christian beliefs, is the basis of our national identity.

The ancient European spirit is still alive here, among the scattered villages, deep forests and lakes, the melodies of our folk songs and even the structure of our language. Every descendant of European ancestors, whose heart is open to it, can experience it during a visit here. It is a secret hidden deep within our ethnic subconscious, defying explanation and eluding definition.

I firmly believe that this spiritual heritage is precisely what Europe needs in its quest to overcome the pervasive rootlessness of the modern world. Estonia stands as a living testament to the power of reconnecting with one’s roots. This holds the key to unlocking a new awakening – a renaissance grounded in the timeless wisdom of our ancestors. I urge all who share the European legacy to rediscover their roots. Only this can bring about a true awakening, and a brighter future for European children.