Counter-Currents
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 617
Could That Be One Explanation?
Counter-Currents Radio
401 words / 2:15:38
Infamous, prophetic, a real “banned book”, Jean Raspail’s 1973 novel The Camp of the Saints was the centerpiece of this edition of Counter-Currents Radio. Greg Johnson was joined by Endeavour, Angelo Plume, and Jared Taylor for a discussion on the book, its themes, and its warnings. It is now available to download or listen to online.
00:45 – Welcome Jared Taylor, Endeavour, Angelo Plume
02:00 – Acknowledging donations from last week
03:55 – Jared almost meets Jean Raspail
04:33 – C-C will hold a Raspail symposium next year
05:18 – Greg on Camp of the Saints as a White Nationalist novel
06:00 – The panel shares their first impressions of the book
18:30 – Greg: the role of churches and the media
21:37 – Endeavour: ancestors; nihilism; every level of society is complicit
26:02 – Greg: a failure of morale, from the top down; Christianity and Leftism to blame?
30:10 – The questions Raspail asks the reader to wrestle with
33:37 – Greg: our enemies manipulate our empathy, using weakness as a weapon
35:30 – Angelo on hybrid warfare; migrants as a bioweapon
36:40 – After the first atrocity the rest are easier
37:41 – Parallels to the current migrant invasions. Why won’t governments intervene?
40:00 – Jared suggests a more nuanced and historically informed evaluation of the role of Christianity
42:23 – Endeavour: the churches are subverted like so much else today
47:10 – Whites need to be moral; our altruism is not reciprocated; double standards
50:00 – Greg: what corrupted Christianity?
52:25 – Jared responds
53:55 – Angelo on Frontex, the European Border and Coast Guard Agency
56:20 – Jared on maritime law and refugee treaties
59:15 – Angelo and Endeavour on the bigger picture
1:06:58 – Greg on his experience at a liberal theological college; racist beats dogma
1:08:15 – Question: are Indians like Vivek the real threat?
1:16:27 – Endeavour on the Canadian experience
1:18:04 – Question: what about “conservatives” who think Raspail’s novel is “racist”?
1:21:11 – Shame is used against us
1:21:33 – Alternatives to Christianity?
1:30:10 – Question for Greg on alternative diets
1:32:25 – Question for the panel: what are your five favorite books?
1:36:00 – Question: Is Trump’s popularity with Hispanics a problem?
1:37:37 – Question: Is hate based on ignorance or experience?
1:38:49 – Question: what role would you take in a nationalist administration?
1:40:40 – Racial awareness in France vs in the Anglosphere
1:41:40 – Question: are White Nationalists “aesthetes”?
1:48:58 – Question on Whites as a “high trust” people
1:49:24 – Question on keeping safe in diverse cities and the Daniel Penny trial
1:55:35 – More from Endeavour on Canadians
1:57:23 – Question on the United Healthcare CEO assassination, corporate greed
1:59:25 – Greg’s thoughts on “universalism”
2:02:00 – Final comments from the panel onThe Camp of the Saints and goodbyes
To listen in a player, click here or below. To download, right-click the link and click “save as.”
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17 comments
Well, this was a fascinating discussion all ’round! This might sound strange, but criticizing someone else’s religion is much less offensive when you respect others enough to detail your reasons. Personal experiences with relatives are particularly helpful in this regard, because it gives one an understanding of the journey that has led a person to their present point of view.
Now, that said, I am as convinced as I ever was that the anti-Christian perspective is fundamentally wrong. Mr. Taylor asked a very obvious yet crucial question early on in the discussion: Why do European ships not go out to meet these flotillas and escort them back? You wouldn’t have to shoot any kids, then. Well, here’s the answer: that would deprive the global anti-White Left of the very photo ops they are going out of their way to orchestrate! It has long been obvious to me that their political theater is calculated precisely to create a false, zero-sum dilemma between self-preservation and compassion for others.
And that brings me to Greg’s question: Who subverted Christianity? Well, it’s the usual suspects, again. It is certainly true that charity and brotherly love were there from the beginning, in no small part as a reaction to the psychopathic indifference of pagan Rome to the suffering of its own destitute plebians. However, it is normally the benefactor, not the beneficiary, of charity who determines the form it takes. Jewish subversion of Christianity consists not in imposing a kind of universal altruism that wasn’t there already, but rather in directing Christian charity to means that are as destructive to Europeans as possible.
The assumption here seems to be that the ideal amount of altruism directed to non-Whites is zero, with less always being better than more. This is far from obvious, however. Consider Angelo’s point about the conquistadors and the missionaries who accompanied them. It bears remembering that the Aztecs fell to the conquistadors in part because of their disregard for the interests and wellbeing of neighboring tribes, whose lives, in their view, definitely did NOT matter. It’s not difficult to imagine one of Spain’s geopolitical rivals (Christian or Muslim) turning up in the New World and showing her just what a bitch karma can be.
The recent CEO shooting is another case in point. There was a time in this country when corporate citizenship was taken seriously. We argued about whether this was sincere altruism or mere expediency, but this was an academic question. Enlightened self-interest or not, the fact of corporate citizenship was taken for granted. Now, any failure to maximize profits, without regard to the PR consequences, is seen as a breach of fiduciary duty. The chickens are coming home to roost, and there is talk of having to spend more on security, which is obviously bad optics as well as costly for the very shareholders they were hiding behind to justify their antisocial practices.
I suspect that, without various special interests, including the Chamber of Commerce set and the Israel Lobby, undermining our economic base and draining our dwindling resources, Christian charity would have already done more than it already has to improve the quality of life in source countries and considerably reduced pressure on our borders. Indeed, I suspect that, post-WWII, it was clear to certain people that the global coalition against White civilization was a now-or-never proposition, because given half a chance, Whites would secure the loyalty of the entire Third world and lead another revolt, this time an unbeatable one, against Global Finance. If Jews can create an anti-White coalition of the perpetually-aggrieved, then Whites can create an anti-Jewish coalition of the perpetually-aggrieved. Jews know this, and that is why David Duke is so threatening.
Maybe I just have too much faith in White civilization, but I think we are, or at least were, well past the point where we couldn’t be humane and secure our own survival at the same time. Of course, I have no doubt that some rare situations call for a hard heart, as Greg points out. If you corner a people and give them no choice but to fire on children or acquiesce in their own destruction, then you have blood on your own hands if and when they are unwilling to sacrifice their future for outsiders who know they are imposing, anyway.
Protestant Zionism really is a straightforward case of subversion, though, but that’s always how it is. Catholics are susceptible to the idea that Christians can and must work off their sins (race-related or not) by resort to penitential suffering, because Christ’s redeeming work wasn’t enough, notwithstanding clear Biblical teaching to the contrary, so they are used to promote immigration. On the other hand, Protestants will never accept this Pelagian claptrap, so their racial instincts are redirected into Zionism and Israel’s struggle against brown people in the Middle East. But isn’t this always the way? Control and play both sides. It doesn’t matter that both of these agendas cannot be authentically Christian, assuming either one of them can. It only matters that both are put to work serving Jewish interests, just like everything else.
I’m not so sure Lexi that it was “the usual suspects” that undermined the Church. More like they saw which way the wind was blowing and took full advantage of it. I’m a WASP myself but recently joined the Catholic Church, at least I think it’s catholic, but in management ranks there is a strong sense that salvation is found in the other rather than the traditional God. The “shop floor” staff are pretty good but like other corporations the senior management is off somewhere else. You have certainly given me food for thought. Thanks.
More like they saw which way the wind was blowing and took full advantage of it.
Opportunism definitely played a role in this whole disaster, but to be fair to the churches, the legacy media has ridiculed Christianity nearly to death over the last few decades, going back at least to Jay Leno if not earlier. Saul Alinksy was right on point when he said that ridicule is at once irrational and unanswerable. Finally, Christians have gotten with the program and are now getting some laughs of their own at the expense of hostile atheists.
https://youtu.be/flQkMxnA7ok?si=Ezt8biiKlEmewiZJ
But the damage is done. With dwindling congregations and financial resources, it is no surprise they’re on the lookout for other opportunities. When the NGOs come to the rescue with grant money for refugee resettlement, they see it as the solution to their problems. And why wouldn’t they? They’ve been subjected to the same diversity propaganda as everyone else.
If you had suggested to fiscally stable Protestant congregations in the ’80s that they should reallocate funds from foreign missions to refugee resettlement in high cost-of-living Western countries, they would have looked at you like you were insane, because that wouldn’t make any sense from either a spiritual or practical standpoint. You can help more poor people by cultivating them where they’re planted. Indeed, the whole point of “spreading” the Gospel is that you actually go places. (Matthew 28:19) Then, your new converts stay where they are to continue building the congregation you helped them start. (I guess St. Paul had it all wrong. He should have been setting up “immigration aid” centers instead.)
White civilization is in high demand, but short supply. Foreign peoples desire our standard of living, but resent and resist outright imperialism. As a result, conquest is bloody and expensive. The solution? Send a man of God with a message of peace and goodwill. OK, so now I sound like John Lennon. But really, if you give peace a chance, and it doesn’t work, then you can fight knowing you have the moral high ground.
In the Middle Ages, it was understood that a healthy society needs “men who pray, men who fight, and men who work.” Angelo’s uncle clearly belongs to the first category, and while I understand Angelo’s frustration, it hardly makes sense to seriously fault him for failing to do what the “men who fight” were supposed to have done but didn’t. That doesn’t mean that it is inevitable that men like him will be of no use, or even subversive, to their own people.
There seems to be a belief that these sorts of people are products of Christianity, and without them, these people wouldn’t exist. I seriously doubt that. It seems to me that mystics, sages, prophets, hermits, etc. are naturally occurring parts of human societies. I suppose you could eradicate the spiritual sense entirely from a population, but not without great cost.
I like your understanding of the current crisis in the church.
A bit of a missed opportunity. I had hoped to hear more about the book, but the conversation quickly digressed and never really got back on track. Nonetheless, I appreciated it.
At an hr and 20 minutes or so someone wrote in asking “what if we did a reverse camp of the saints?” To which Greg John replied that we’ve already had reverse camp of the saints via colonialism/imperialism etc through expansion of European civilization.
To expand on this question or at-least morph it into something more palpable for white nationalists worldwide I would like to propose an idea I have personally had on my mind for sometime now. An idea that perhaps many people in our sphere have never considered:
If our enemies are intent on flooding our countries with foreigners, perhaps we can reverse this by flooding our own countries with ourselves. How so you might ask? Allow me to play out my thought process on this one: I myself live in Canada, and just like Endeavor I am inundated with the reminders everyday as to the decline of our people. But. It really comes back to this one principle. A principle we all feel. Especially if we have lived abroad before, studied human history and come to the conclusions we have. Where do “our people” come from?
Europe.
And my point?
My proposal is this:
If all our nations that we’ve built worldwide are being flooding with foreigners, perhaps it is time that we return to Europe. We have all heard this saying within our circles, but we also know in our heart of hearts that it is likely a truth we cannot ignore. “If Europe falls, we fall”. We cling to our “American” identity, “Canadian”, “Australian” etc. etc. And sure, it’s true that we became something else. Something other than European perhaps. Something outside of Europe. Something expansive and new.
But we are still Europe.
So, am I saying we should flood Europe with white people from all our common wealth’s and satellite states globally? YES.
Let the colonies be absorbed by foreigners. Europe can have a second renaissance and become a super state alongside Russia (perhaps joining with Russia after the expulsion of Islam)
And if you think this can’t be done, I point to none other than Israel. Israel and its diaspora pour billions into advertisements for attracting Jews globally to their tiny state. They have annual field trips for foreign Jews to experience Israel firsthand and consider moving there. We need to do the same.
And if you’re worried that all our common wealth’s and satellite states we’ve conquered and colonized over the years will be forever lost, wait a hundred years. We’ll be back to conquer them again after our 2nd renaissance.
I encourage you all to consider this concept and ponder the justification for it. Has Europe spread itself too thin by spreading its civilization worldwide?
I appreciation all the work that counter-currents has done over the years and am interested if any of you would like to tackle this concept in a discussion sometime. Thank you.
-Marcus
I think if Whites are to survive it would need Europe, Russia and America+Canada+Australia/NZ to be united in one White nationalist empire or foederation. The WWII actually shows that continental Europe could not beat the globalist Anglo-powers and Russia combined because of the lack or natural resources (oil…). We would need at least Europe PLUS one of the Superpowers.
From my article:
“What a film this novel would make. Think of the images. Open with Calgués’ lovely deserted village. Cut to the rusty armada seen through the lens of his telescope—its closeness—darkening the Côte d’Azur. Cross-bearing monks on the beach are swamped by the tide of migrants: an image that could leap off a Dalí canvas. Who would play Panama Ranger?”
Actually, I picture Jeff Bridges’ character, The Dude, a slovenly old hippy from The Big Lebowski (I film I can’t stand to watch), as Panama Ranger.
I also find the novel overwritten, but in a different way from Jared. I think there is too much editorializing by the narrator. The novel would profit from a a revision; it could be reduced in length by as much as one quarter.
The one thing the novel gets factually wrong is the peaceful character of leftist protest.
But The Camp really is our novel. The dual aim of the nonwhite enemies and their white traitor allies is to promote racial diversity and suppress viewpoint diversity. Anyone who questions the wisdom of the invasion is labeled a “racist and a fascist.” The novel perfectly depicts the current moral-psychological landscape in the West, as well as offering a dire warning and prediction.
One of us should make the movie. I’m tempted to do it myself, but it would be a big learning curve for me.
We’re strong in philosophy, psychology, and history, It looks like we’re coming up in some of the arts. If we could get control of a studio, we could make it. Not necessarily Hollywood. Underground films have done well. I’ll bet there are a few actors who would do it. A screenplay is what’s needed most.
I don’t have a studio, but I do have a nice graphics workstation that should be up to the task. Maybe I’ll try producing some shorts and see where it goes.
Decolonization was bad for both Huwhites and natives. But: If you let go of the bull’s horns, you can’t hold him by the tail.
Beau Albrecht: December 15, 2024 One of us should make the movie. I’m tempted to do it myself, but it would be a big learning curve for me.
—
Good luck with that, Beau. What do you think about this theme (in bold) for a movie:
The idea of a lone hero doing battle with the world’s evils is nothing new. But William Pierce was apparently on to something when he gave that old storyline a new, white-supremacist twist. Most extremist novels published since The Turner Diaries focus on a white protagonist who wakes up to what’s wrong with the world, and then acts against the odds to make things right.
Now, the “supremacist” nonsense aside, that would make a hit move for long-suffering Whites looking for a White protagonist who takes it to the corrupt anti-White System, eh?
That description came to us from the oh-so-civic-minded hate group SPLC 20 years ago. The Turner Diaries, Other Racist Novels, Inspire Extremist Violence | Southern Poverty Law Center It continues:
By the novel’s end, Turner is working for an elite survivalist group called the Order and plotting a suicide mission — flying a crop-duster plane strapped with a warhead into the Pentagon, the System’s last remaining military stronghold. “Two-thirds of the troops around the Pentagon are n——,” Turner writes in his journal, “which should greatly enhance my chances of getting through.”
Published by Pierce’s own National Vanguard Press, The Turner Diaries didn’t exactly rocket up the best-seller lists when it first appeared. But Pierce certainly got through to Bob Mathews. A neo-Nazi follower, Mathews organized a real-life group called The Order, based on Pierce’s fictional Order, which committed a series of armored car heists and plotted serious racist violence before ambushing and murdering Jewish radio talk show host Alan Berg in 1984.
Hollywood certainly thought a movie about real-life White hero Bob Mathews and his group the Order, said to be inspired by Pierce’s novel The Turner Diaries, is what the American movie-going public needs. So, The Order movie was released this month into movie theaters with great fanfare — but with the usual Hollywood twist: Mathews and his Order are not honorable, idealistic heroes fighting for their race at all, but evil, neo-Nazi terrorist supremacists with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Though The Order claims to be based on a true story, the protagonist is a fictional FBI Special Agent, played by A-list actor Jude Law along with his equally fictional, requisite racially-mixed cast of fellow Famous But Incompetent “good guys and gals.”
What a popular blockbuster The Order could have been if produced by our side rather than (((theirs))). Our Jewish watch dogs compare Pierce’s Diaries with Raspail’s Camp:
…French novelist Jean Raspail tapped into a similar set of stereotypes and fears with his anti-immigration novel, The Camp of the Saints. Written in the early 1970s during a wave of Algerian immigration into France, The Camp of the Saints also took a while to catch on in the U.S. But when it did, two decades later, it had a major influence on the American anti-immigration movement.
Far more fluidly written than most extremist novels, The Camp of the Saints is infused with apocalyptic foreboding. The plot concerns a famine-induced pilgrimage to the shores of the French Riviera by Hindu refugees described as “kinky-haired, swarthy-skinned, long-despised phantoms.”
As the flotilla makes its way around Africa to France, Raspail writes about the ineffectual reactions of government officials, church leaders, liberals and soldiers — the cultured and civilized who belong to the “camp of the saints.” He rails against the “monstrous cancer” of multiculturalism and lingers over descriptions of the brown and black hordes with their “fleshless, Gandhi arms” — all heading ominously, disastrously, toward France….
Greg loves Camp for its literary quality and he and Jared were able to overlook Raspail’s harsh language about “turd eaters” and such after a second read, but would Hollywood be so kind? Doubtful. Raspail would be characterized as a neo-Nazi hater, like Pierce, no matter Camp’s value as literature. SPLC, ADL, and the FBI won’t be saying Camp is “the most dangerous book in America” like they do with Diaries because it isn’t. Greg has said Raspail only mentioned two Jews’s names in his book.
Perhaps C-C should have a symposium on The Turner Diaries as the American “White nationalist novel.” It could feature parts of the 5-part American Dissident Voices series on Hollywood’s The Order that concludes next weekend with Bob’s stirring 1983 speech, “A Call to Arms,” with Diaries author’s advice to Bob.
Parts 3 and 4 provide Dr. Pierce’s explanation, in his own voice, using AI, of how and why he came to write The Turner Diaries novel: The Order 2024, part 4 | National Vanguard. Fascinating, considering 99% of what Pierce wrote and talked about for 35 years was non-fiction truths about what actually was happening to our White world and who was responsible. Raispail never did that as far as I know. He was “respectable” literati.
BTW, Pierce’s second and last novel, Hunter, written in 1989, is better written than Diaries and would make a much better action movie, though it lacks Diaries‘ notoriety as the alleged “bible of the racist right.”: The Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds Audio Book: Pierce on Hunter | National Vanguard
I skipped ahead to 1:21:33 to “Alternatives to Christianity” and found the discussion came up lacking. Hunter addresses that issue to my liking and introduces the best alternative to Christianity for racially loyal Whites: Cosmotheism.
Thank you, gentlemen!
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Racism is simply PREFERENCE for one’s own kind.
Let’s make the most of it.
Bye the bye, Camp of the Saints is on my re-read list. I read it back in the early ’90s.
Eleatic Cavalier
25:00 Christianity and Islam created the foundations for modern nihilism and atheism to be built on. Christianity and Islam sweep across the globe destroying most other belief systems often employing a kind of skeptical atheism towards the Gods of other spiritualities claiming these Gods were all false and did not exist. As Abrahamic faiths conquered territory previously occupied by the belief systems of other people Abrahams salted the spiritual landscape of any potential grow of new spiritualities by outlawing or making it harder to maintain or create new spiritualities. In more modern times it was Protestant Christianity which gave birth to the naturalists that brought about a wave of secular atheism in more modern times. I find it funny when conservative Christians like Endeavour try to complain about atheists or Nihilists when it was his own faith that created the conditions for these people to thrive in. Typical American protestant conservative Christian hypocrisy.
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