Counter-Currents
1,582 words
More shots have been fired in the trial run of the second American Civil War.
On August 25th, Kyle Rittenhouse, a seventeen-year-old citizen-militia member, was attacked at least twice by a Black Lives Matter and Antifa mob during a riot in Kenosha, Wisconsin. He was armed with a rifle, and with it killed two of his attackers and injured a third. This third attacker was about to fire a pistol at him when Rittenhouse nearly blew off his arm. That Rittenhouse is entirely blameless and fired his weapon in self-defense should come as no surprise to anyone who’s been following this story from its beginnings. Also not surprising is how all three victims had criminal records (one being a sex offender, one a domestic abuser, and one for illegally possessing firearms). Predictably, the boy has been arrested and charged with first-degree murder after surrendering to the police. Since that point, Rittenhouse has become a lightning rod for the Left-Right enmity that is rapidly devouring the United States.
The boy’s age, name, family, and privacy rights mean nothing now. He’s part of history, the poor kid, and neither side will likely ever even try to come to an agreement about him. To half the country, he is a terrorist, a white supremacist, and a symbol of everything that’s wrong and racist about President Trump. To the other half — my half — Kyle Rittenhouse is a hero, a defender of the West against Marxist degeneracy and a champion of gun rights. With the way things are going these days, it is impossible to remain neutral about him. His lethal defense against the rampaging mob highlights the stark and irreconcilable differences between the Left and Right, and makes us question why both sides are even bothering to live in the same country anymore. Rittenhouse may well have achieved John Brown status. When the Civil War 2.0 starts in earnest, I’m sure both sides will be singing songs about him between battles, but they will be singing very different things about this unfortunate boy.
I’ll assume most of the details will be well-known by the time of this writing. The New York Times gives a fairly evenhanded assessment of the goings-on, allowing the reader to come to his own conclusions. Leon Wolf of the Blaze practically laughs the charge of murder off the page. And the Nationalist Review shows how people on social media are doxing Rittenhouse and threatening his family.
In some sense, this is part of an easy-to-recognize pattern which may have started with George Zimmerman in 2012 but has suffered a tragic uptick in 2020. A person on the side of Law and Order (usually a white) suffers an unprovoked attack by an opponent of Law and Order (usually a black) and responds with deadly force or the threat of deadly force. Thereafter America engages in a debate/screaming match over the event to see who will grow hoarse first. This year, we have seen the McMichaels, the McCloskeys, the Wuestenbergs, Derek Chauvin, Garrett Rolfe, and now Kyle Rittenhouse. Similar events that don’t easily fit this pattern, such as the tragic killings of David Dorn and Dillon Taylor, are quickly memory-holed. This is because Americans these days really want to scream at each other, and relish any excuse to do so.
You can buy Spencer Quinn’s novel White Like You here.
But in another, more important, sense, the Rittenhouse affair is much, much different. For one, it was part of a larger conflict and, more than any of the events mentioned above, resembled war. Rittenhouse was caught behind enemy lines and was frantically trying to make it to safety. It took all of his self-possession and firearms training to be able to survive. Panic never overcame him. According to the New York Times, Rittenhouse fired eight times from various angles and scored three hits, two of which were kill shots. That is remarkable. What’s even more remarkable was that he shot the Antifa goon who was approaching him with a pistol in the arm which held the pistol. Was it pure luck? Or did Rittenhouse wish to disarm his attacker without killing him, gunslinger style? Maybe we will know one day soon. But in the meantime, we should know that Kyle Rittenhouse demonstrated the effectiveness of responsible firearms training and the critical importance of staying cool under pressure. To everyone on the Right, the kid is nothing less than an inspiration.
Secondly, this event illustrates the terrifying determination of the organized Left. Yes, the rioting crowd was rife with chattering Negroes, as they always are these days. One black commentator notes that there are so many white boys around. “That’s Antifa, man,” he says. When Rittenhouse is fleeing down the street, he’s overtaken and attacked by the whites. They knew he was armed. They knew he had just killed. No less than four of them attacked him anyway — three of whom appeared to be unarmed with guns. One tried to jump on Rittenhouse, one tried to disarm him, and one bashed him over the head with a skateboard. The thug with the pistol, one Gaige Grosskreutz, appeared last and was shot last. Now, just step back and imagine the kind of mindset one would need to lunge at an armed man. These Antifa people were not exactly inhibited by fear, were they? Instead, their hackles were up and they were motivated by the rage of war. And one gave his life for his cause.
These people are fierce and determined and organized. If the Rittenhouse affair teaches us anything, it’s that we cannot take them lightly.
Third, this event reveals how the Right has the moral high ground. Sure, we can question Rittenhouse’s parents’ motives for allowing their seventeen-year-old to participate in quelling a riot. But Rittenhouse’s motives do seem to be pure. Before the shooting, he told the Daily Caller:
So people are getting injured, and our job is to protect this business, and a part of my job is to also help people. If there’s somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way. That’s why I have my rifle because I need to protect myself, obviously. But I also have my med kit.
The New York Times also reported that Rittenhouse had been pepper-sprayed by the rioters, and despite this, had offered medical assistance to them.
Compare this Eagle Scout to the thugs and hooligans of BLM and Antifa who were there only to loot and burn because a few days earlier police had shot a recalcitrant Jacob Blake, a black felon who was resisting arrest and reaching for a knife in his car. In this clip, notice the hostility and aggression of the rioters against the militia, who clearly did not want to start a firefight. Notice how one of the rioters kept taunting them, repeatedly saying, “Shoot me, nigga. Shoot me, nigga.” This unhinged lout was Joseph Rosenbaum, the sex offender who later chased and threw something at Rittenhouse. This was the first person Rittenhouse killed. Afterwards, Rittenhouse remained on the scene, on his phone, presumably calling 911, until people recognized him as the shooter and started calling for his head.
Could the moral difference between Left and Right be made any clearer than this?
Finally, Kyle Rittenhouse has unintentionally forced whites to be closer together like never before. Whites should pay attention to the following tweet by black Massachusetts representative Aryanna Pressley:
This is a proclamation from a woman who would put all conservative whites in gulags if she could. I’ve always despised black politics because black politicians almost always use the sham of anti-black racism to manipulate whites for their own selfish and corrupt interests. But this Pressley tweet represents more than this. She’s motivated more by ideology than greed. She’s trying to do with her lying words what Grosskreutz attempted to do with his handgun: destroy the life of a white man.
In today’s society, nothing can ruin a person more than calling him a white supremacist. She has absolutely no evidence behind her accusations and made them anyway. She has no basis for defending the rioters, and did so anyway. With this tweet, she’s promoting a black supremacy that’s as bald as her ugly head.
Whites should understand that it doesn’t matter if these accusations are true. It doesn’t matter that you’re innocent. It doesn’t matter what the truth is. What matters is that defending your life against a black person or a Leftist impedes the will to power of blacks and Leftists. And for this, they will make your white skin a target and they will destroy you.
It requires a person of absolutely no moral bearing to see Kyle Rittenhouse as the villain in this affair. He was protecting property and businesses against the feral mob. He was protecting himself against the feral mob. And if one white person — one that is still a boy, no less — can so effectively fight and kill as a citizen soldier, imagine how effective thousands of whites would be in the same situation.
Perhaps this is what enrages the Left the most about Kyle Rittenhouse.
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83 comments
I just judge that kyle is so obviously a good kid and those shot have serious criminal records. The one saving grace he may have here is that the three shot are in fact white, and as such were as metaphysically “deserving” of death in the twisted minds of the leftist elite as any of us. Had they been black, Kyle would be in worse trouble.
The trial, if it goes to trial, will henge very much on jury selection. But in that place I can’t imagine them forming a jury without at least one dissenter. I bet they’ll take it to trial just to be vindictive as possible, even realizing they’ll lose.
I bet Spencer is correct that this marks a turning point in all of this. The antifas will be much less confident to riot if this does not go their way!
Maybe they recognized his youth and this is why they attacked him in the first place. I didn’t see them attacking anyone else, only agitating. I was signaled out by a punk once because he thought I would be an easy touch due to my age. He was wrong and these punks were wrong about Kyle. I don’t think these punks are fearless and tough like you say. Crazy yes and stupid like the dead guy that was saying “shoot me nigga”. I would like to add that Kyle represents every single one of us who believes in standing up for what is right.He was judged in the wrong because he is white. If he were a black man running from white guys, he would have been quickly justified. I don’t know the circumstances around the “shoot me nigga” guy but the cops do not have grounds to charge Kyle in the video shooting.It is obvious.What is wrong with these cowardly cops in Kenosha?When will the cops wake up and join the right side?We need law enforcement like in Brunswick ,Ga. who did not charge those white men because they could recognize what really happened without reading racism into it. Then the feds stepped in and they were charged.When you have Kenosha practically destroyed already, why would they consider it would appease these monsters to rush into a murder charge against Kyle?What it really says is that according to Kenosha law today you don’t have the right to fight back and anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation is going to be treated just like Kyle. I’ll say it again the police need to stand united with their fellow citizens who are openly opposing the mob and when they don’t ,they are empowering them.In Communist takeovers of the past cops and military alike capitulate like some kind of robots not realizing that they are citizens themselves and should be fighting for the life of the nation alongside of their fellow citizens.When war happens they have to choose sides and if somebody starts crying “racism, racism” no one gives a damn.
These riots provide a great opportunity for White Nationalists to mingle and commiserate with normie whites. Greg Johnson said that the “Alt right” served as a “discursive space” where WNs could mingle and work collegially with other whites, thus slowly pulling them into our sphere of influence. I would argue that these endless riots, and the persecution of Rittenhouse in particular, provide another discursive space for us to do the same.
I’ve lost one life-long friend and am on the brink of losing three more just for having voted for Trump, let alone telling them about exactly how far right I am. I keep telling the last three that I voted for issues, not Trump personally, but they just say that Trump’s only issue is ‘racism’. So I am shut down immediately. I’ve never been a verbal debater, so ‘talking’ to people is not available as a strategy for me. I am so glad I’ve found Counter Currents where I find people like me and issues I care about, as well as hope for the future.
As a person who worked for the police department in Los Angeles (not LAPD, but a smaller unit), I recognize immediately when the press is ignoring the reality of a ‘shooting’ situation. They never mention the ‘rap sheet’ of the person — the ‘unarmed, innocent Black person’ — nor do they reveal why the cops stopped the guy (it’s nearly always a guy who gets shot) in the first place. In the Jacob Blake case, which led ultimately to the riot in which Rittenhouse was involved, Blake had a record for child abuse, and I believe it was said that his ex-wife, or girlfriend, or ‘baby mama’ had called the police when he took the kids out to the SUV ‘for a ride’. I’m still looking for the details and the truth in this shooting, because the press is busy making Blake Saint #2 in the “2020 Peaceful Protests”.
But thanks ever so much for posting this detailed explanation of what happened with Rittenhouse, because I hadn’t even got as far as looking up this second shooting in Kenosha. This entire Spring and Summer has been just a blaze of wrongful shootings, burnings, and total nastiness by BLM, as the ‘front man’, and Antifa as the hidden hand and back-up crew. Each and every one of the shootings of police officers involved needs to be investigated and the criminals brought to justice, but since most ‘perps’ were wearing masks or hoodies, as criminals do right along, we may never know their identity or be able to prosecute.
But I can tell you, as a person who has worked along nicely with Blacks for 50 years of my working life, I have now been turned against Blacks so thoroughly that I doubt I can ever speak to one again, except in a store exchange or other ‘in passing’ situations. BLM has truly SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT and will limp through life from now on. And I will claim Rittenhouse and all the Officers wounded or killed in the ‘2020 Riots, as heroes.
“And if one white person — one that is still a boy, no less — can so effectively fight and kill as a citizen soldier, imagine how effective thousands of whites would be in the same situation.”
I do wonder if there was just one Kyle Rittenhouse in every major city how crime and anti-white attacks would change. If antifa and BLM -not to mention your standard black racist – knew there was a chance of retaliation, would they be so quick to attack our our people?
The “Shoot me nigga!” guy, the first one Kyle was forced to shoot, was a convicted pedophile Jew.
I saw video and still images of this pedophile Jew pursuing Kyle and throwing an object at him that appeared to be trailing a flame (a firebomb?).
After shooting this attacker Rittenhouse stopped and came back to the downed man (very bravely and nobly), pulled out his cellphone and called (no doubt for police / medical aid).
Can you believe that? What a good person this Kyle Rittenhouse.
Of course this noble act was rewarded by further attempts from the commie-jew-antifas to murder him, leading to the subsequent engagements:
1. Black tries to take his head off – Kyle sends a round at him – black runs away.
2. Wife beater tries to crack his head with a skateboard – takes round center of mass.
3. Possible second jew comes at him with pistol drawn, Kyle points but doesn’t shoot — giving the antifa scum a noble chance to change his behavior. The antifa scum makes false surrender then points his pistol at Kyles head. Kyle then shoots him in his gun arm — just like in a western he shoots the arm instead of center of mass — letting the guy live who was trying to shoot him in the head!
We cannot let Rittenhouse get screwed on this. We have let too many good men be sacrificed before, but we have to draw the line here for this kid or we are not White men.
Noble thoughts, very well stated.
Well Said, Sir.
I have watched millions of dollars of go up in smoke due to Antifa/BLM. Now they seize houses of people and terrorize neighborhoods.
Kyle is a mere corporal in the Army of the White, but we should not leave anyone behind.
I mean, I think it’s fair to portray the kid’s intentions honestly—he wasn’t bloodthirsty. But I also don’t think we should be quick to celebrate people carrying around assault rifles in spaces prone to violence, especially to protect private property from *people*. Not saying that the destruction of private property is *necessarily* a good thing (though, to be honest, the anti-capitalist in me really doesn’t care at all to see corporate chains taking a hit… they’re run by the same elites who would happily erode non-economic values like ethnic unity to secure cheap labor or make a quick buck), but I don’t think we should be celebrating kids trying to deal out vigilante justice. If he hadn’t gone into the fray with an assault rifle, two more people would be alive right now, and it would hardly have affected the magnitude of the destruction. Is the cost of a little private property two lives, soberly speaking? I think you’d have to be caught up in a passionate fervor to say yes. And this doesn’t even touch on the PR problem—the kid’s actions have worsened the already terrible public image of the Right. The kid isn’t evil, but his actions were idiotic and ill-conceived. I don’t think it is at all necessary for the Right to venerate him as a hero; in fact, I think we should be asking folks to play smarter.
His mission may have been ill-conceived, and car lots and corporate buildings, unlike a private home or small business, are not worth risking one’s life to defend from BLM.
Nonetheless, his motive was principled, and his actions were brave, honorable, and tactically competent.
As regards public image, half the population hates us no matter what we do. For the other half, Rittenhouse sets a heroic example in my book.
What a disgusting comment, on so many levels. I will only note that others should see how leftists OF ANY VARIETY think, and learn from that that leftists OF ANY VARIETY are simply untrustworthy as white allies. Intellectuals love to make fine distinctions, but in practical reality, ideologies tend to be all of a piece. “Alex J” talks about the “anti-capitalist” in him. OK. He then goes on to snivel that protecting private property (always a good and noble thing – but especially when we’re in a deep recession that will involve a long recovery; if Biden wins, we won’t recover; destruction of property is always a bad thing from a prosperity perspective) somehow isn’t worth killing a couple of Jewish rapists/pedophiles who were vandalizing property; perhaps looting property; attacking police; attempting to tear down Western Civ; and, of course, specifically trying to maim or kill an honorable white youth.
“Two more people would be alive right now” – what kind of people? The kind you want in your nation, or the kind the nation is much better off without?
This type of moral equivalence is typical of the liberal wing of international leftism, and it helps pave the road for the advance of more virulent and violent forms of leftism (culminating in the joys of Stalin’s USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc). We on the Right do NOT need “allies” like this; indeed, they only weaken our resolve and effectiveness. As Kipling noted long ago, “The strength of the wolf is the strength of the pack.”
Those who are liberal in any way should be removed from any white preservationist movement. And the first element of liberalism is the unwillingness to name evil, or to equivocate about what should be done to it.
Yikes, Lord Shang, I see I’ve touched a nerve… you’re practically frothing at the proverbial mouth. I do stand by the claim that lives should be preserved when they can be. I think the strongest political movements should appear as virtuously as possible; mercy and respect for human life are displays of such virtue. This virtue contributes to both the public image and the self-respect of a movement. Note that this is not a liberal mode of justification. It invokes nothing like universal human rights. In fact, it’s more like a Nietzschean justification. That being said, I do in fact believe that human lives have intrinsic value, and that they ought to be preserved when they can on those grounds, too. That is more of a liberal justification. However, the former type of argument is sufficient on its own.
As for my anti-capitalist comments, I stand by them. I find your claim that private property is “always a good and noble thing” to be just silly, even by Rightist standards. My way into the Right was through thinkers like Heidegger and Alain de Benoist, each of whom have critical things to say about post-industrial cultures obsessed with economic growth and about globalized industrial capitalism—each of these phenomena tends to subordinate the flourishing of human beings to the needs of production, and the demands of human flourishing often do not coincide with the demands of economic productivity. This can be seen in the way that laborers often do not get to enjoy the fruits of their labors under capitalism, and can spend the majority of their lives toiling for very little. The minority of property owners benefit from this; the rest of us do not. Of course, we have more consumer goods as a result, but our lives are not structured in ways that are spiritually fulfilling. Most of us don’t get to structure our lives in ways that nourish us spiritually because we are subordinate to the whims of the elites who rule over the economy and a set of abstract economic measurements that have little to do with human flourishing. I don’t think the primary marker of a spiritually advanced society is anything fundamentally economic. Note that this mode of thought is shared by many Rightists—Heidegger, Evola, Nietzsche, de Benoist to name a few. All of them complain about the spiritually impoverished character of societies that understand themselves in terms of economic production.
Further, capitalism tends to erode non-economic values. Target doesn’t care about preserving ethnic unity; it cares about maximizing profit—that means cheap labor of any color is better than more expensive labor, and more sales to any person is better than less sales. Another reason, from the Right, not to go to bat for the property-owning class (most importantly, the big-time, corporate property-owning class. I’m sure we can agree that small business owners don’t deserve to take the hit here, and I am not advocating that.) There are many strains of anti-capitalist thought on the Right, especially in Europe, where capitalism is viewed as a modern institution that is destroying traditional forms of life; in America, it tends to be viewed as built into our DNA, so it is viewed as part of the very tradition to be conserved.
Thanks for your comment Spencer. I am not ignoring it; I will reply when I have a chance.
I totally disagree with your comments on Capitalism, and I guess it is time to have some sort of ‘forum’ to discuss Capitalism vs. Socialism among our regular readers and adherents to White Nationalism’s overall message. It’s a terribly divisive subject and we really need to not be divided in the time and space in White history and existence.
As I see it, simplistically, the human ‘animal’ has always been a territorial sort, and wants a ‘space’ or piece of the land, to call his or her ‘own’. They want to live in a dwelling they built themselves, which is exclusively their private space, and which no one else can enter without permission. And yes, there are many tribes which live more inclusively, allowing children of friends, and relatives, and friends to enter their ‘space’ freely. But overall, the entire village is cohesive, and will fight another village which seeks to encroach on their territory. This is basic ‘property ownership’. Now I grant you that modern corporate capitalism has blown all this out of proportion, to the point I would divide it into ‘Personal Capitalism’ in which you and I little birds can build our nest and have our nest egg, and ‘Corporate Capitalism’ which exists on a whole other plane. From there on, I guess the cat-fight begins between Socialism and Capitalism, which we will have to save for another time.
BTW, I just pulled out about $1K out of the intensely capitalistic stock market this past month as it rocks and rolls during this mayhem in the streets between socialists and capitalists — which is really the fight between races as well. And I donated 10% of my ‘profits’ to a ‘charity’ — guess which one. I’m not saying ‘goody-two shoes for me’, but just letting you know how to use the capitalistic system to advantage.
Alexandra, it may be the case that we share more common ground than you realize. It may be worth clarifying a couple of things.
First, Marxists draw a useful distinction between personal and private property. Personal property is captured by the way you describe the human need for territory and possessions. If we did not have places where we could dwell in privacy, with clothes and commodities that count as our own possessions, it is very difficult to imagine how we could thrive. I’m glad that people can’t come into my apartment and take my laptop whenever they please. Private property, on the other hand, is capital related to the means of production. In other words, private property is the ownership of capital which is to be used, often in combination with labor, to extract profits. This includes things like factories, office buildings, gadgets and appliances used for production, commodities that have been produced but not yet sold for profits, etc.
Second, with this distinction in hand, I should clarify that I am not a socialist in the strict Marxist sense. To be a socialist in the Marxist sense is to believe that private property (not personal property) should be eliminated. This would resolve what Marxists believe to be the central contradiction of capitalist society: the distinction between the capital-owning class (who earn profits in virtue of their ownership of private property/means of production) and the wage-laboring class (who earn incomes in virtue of selling their time to the capital-owning class in exchange for a wage or a salary). But I am not so concerned to eliminate this distinction entirely as I am to eliminate the wild economic inequalities that obstruct human flourishing and undermine social harmony. To that end, I would probably radically extend things like social programs, constraints on the decision-making power of the rich, and safety nets (which would preserve some of the basic elements of capitalism), and I would advocate a cultural transformation away from post-industrial consumeristic values and lifestyles obsessed with rates and efficiency of material production. But I am not necessarily in a hurry to abolish private property altogether. So, in a sense, I could be on board with minimal and highly restrained capitalism. But the economic order I envision would necessarily be radically more socialized than what we have come to know as “capitalism.” So, I am still nevertheless an anti-capitalist in an important sense.
I’ll agree with Lord Shang on this one. While altruistic tendencies can be good and are a hallmark of civilized whites, some things are necessary for survival.
A quote referring to a white patriot who was killed this past week. Unlike the antifa he wasn’t threatening or chasing anyone; just minding his own business.
“Gabriel Johnson, a retired Marine who said he heard the gunshots that killed a man in Portland, Ore., on Saturday, told “Fox & Friends” on Monday that he was “appalled” by “all of the people in the street celebrating” his death.
And one of the things that I just came back with, and I was appalled by, is all of the people in the street celebrating,” Johnson said.
He noted that people were “specifically saying that they are not sad that a fascist Nazi was killed tonight.”
I am possessed by an over abundance of empathy. Two years ago I saw a large snapping turtle in the middle of the road. I stopped my SUV in the road, rescued the turtle: risking my extremities , threw it in the back on the SUV and released it in a forested waterway. I did the same recently for what I thought was a baby rattle snake. Most people would kill rattlesnakes.
But I am not sad those antifas were killed.
While I don’t know how I’d behave in Kyle’s situation, I do think he acted in the best tradition for survival. He didn’t kill them out of malice but out of the necessity to survive. They would happily beat you to death with skateboards if you found you on an isolated street peacefully playing your harmonica.
Hi Alex J.
Thanks for your comments. But do you really stand by your statement that Rittenhouse was “trying to deal out vigilante justice”? This is factually incorrect and easily refuted by the data. He only fired when attacked to save himself. People in the media and politics have called him a vigilante, and that smear is almost as bad as calling him a terrorist.
Also, you seem to be unjustifiably concerned about PR for the Right. Do any Democrat politician or mainstream media figurehead seem to be concerned about PR for the Left? These rioters are burning down cities and killing people and their leftist enablers don’t seem in the least concerned about what the Right thinks of them. Why should we be concerned about what the Left thinks of us?
I believe KR’s actions and words demonstrate clearly how the Right’s PR is far better than the Left’s.
Typically, I don’t contradict readers since I appreciate the fact that you not only read my article but took the time to comment on it. I just would like to take the conversation a little further. Anything more you would like to add would be welcome. Thanks.
Spencer Quinn, thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I would stand by my decision to describe Rittenhouse as involved in vigilante justice. I agree with you that he can quite reasonably described as having fired in self-defense, but I’m not criticizing that (or, at least, not primarily)—I’m criticizing his decision to show up in the first place. The decision to show up with an intimidating and conspicuous weapon (in response to Pard’s comment, I don’t think whether that weapon is technically an “assault rifle” is pertinent to the force of the argument) with the stated intention to protect private property (while there were already police involved) seems to me to be an intention to deal out vigilante justice. He showed up, armed, to fight for a cause that was already being fought for by those who represent the law. In my view, that is vigilante justice.
Regarding PR, I suppose I’d tend to argue by appeal to consequence. I think that for WN to achieve its goals, it probably needs to build some consensus as a viable political alternative. In order to be effective in that end, it should be concerned with its public image to the greatest extent that it can without betraying its own principles. I think that avoiding situations like this where things escalate and people end up dead is advisable to that end. Of course, Rittenhouse ostensibly doesn’t understand himself as a WN, but I would offer this advice to any political movement (frequently, when I was a Leftist, I would criticize the Left’s tendency to alienate working people, or its tendency to use “guillotine” rhetoric in reference to wealthy elites, for example). If other factions don’t worry about their public image, IMO that’s their loss.
I would also question Lord Shang’s view above that protecting private property is always in conformity with prosperity (at least, if prosperity is understood to coincide with well-being). I think economic elites (I’m not talking small business owners here, but the capital-owning class that run giant chains) make decisions without regard to non-economic values like ethnic unity or cultural homogeneity. They are colorblind and they seek to profit. They also don’t think very deeply about the fundamental conditions of human flourishing (if they think of it at all, they usually think of it in crudely economic terms) and frequently make decisions that, in my view, do not facilitate it. In spite of this, they are granted tremendous power to make decisions that dramatically structure our lives. I am not sad to see some of their property go.
Hi Alex J.
Please note how you are moving the goalposts. First you say KR was “trying to deal out vigilante justice” but later you admit that is action constituted self-defense, but that he had the “intention to deal out vigilante justice.” So which position are you defending? His actions (which you admit are not vigilante justice but self defense) or his intentions? If it’s the latter, where is your evidence? Since you cannot read minds, you must proffer some source that indicates the boy’s intentions, such as a statement in which he claims, “Yes, I am here in Kenosha to mete out vigilante justice!” But he didn’t do anything like that, nor has anyone claimed he said anything like that. His social media posts also offer nothing of that kind.
You argue: “He showed up, armed, to fight for a cause that was already being fought for by those who represent the law. In my view, that is vigilante justice.” Don’t you see how weak that argument is? First of all, protecting property is hardly “a cause.” It’s a natural thing one would want to do in the face of an armed mob. Second, this “cause” was not being fought for very well “by those who represent the law,” otherwise the riots would have been quelled by the police shortly after the Blake shooting. But they weren’t. The very fact that the police were unable to protect property in Kenosha indicates that KR’s reasons to show up and help were valid. Remember, Kenosha had already endured a night of rioting and arson before KR came on the scene. Third, KR stated in an interview (quoted in the article) that he carried a rifle to protect himself. Despite this his aim was only to protect businesses and help people. To call him a vigilante would also be calling him a liar. Do you have proof that KR is a liar? Finally, after he had shot that one Antifa in the arm, another Antifa stood there in front of him and held up his hands. KR could have wasted him right there, but didn’t. If he had, then he would have been a vigilante, similar to Paul Kersey in Death Wish. But he didn’t do that. He just walked away from the mob, which was all he wanted to do anyway.
For you to argue that KR was acting as a vigilante, you are arguing against the data. All evidence points to the fact that he was there to help people and protect property (which is his right), and only carried a rifle in order to protect himself against a mob that is infamous for being violent. None of this constitutes a vigilante. Of course, you’re welcome to your opinion that he intended to use that rifle to mete out justice, but to make opinion persuasive you have to prove it.
Here are the definitions of ‘vigilante’ from wordlink:
* A person who is not a member of law enforcement but who pursues and punishes persons suspected of lawbreaking.
* A member of a vigilance committee.
* A person who considers it their own responsibility to uphold the law in their neighbourhood.
Maybe you could be correct for the last definition, but that would hardly be meaningful since anyone making a citizen’s arrest or stopping an assault or holding down an escaping thief would be considered a vigilante in this case. When the police are demoralized, overwhelmed, defunded, or ordered not to fight crime and it falls on the people to stand up against a mob of rioters, criminals, looters, and arsonists, would you call the people doing that “vigilantes?” Technically, perhaps, but there should be no negative connotation with that. This is a very broad definition and not one one thinks of when talking about vigilantes.
When you called KR a vigilante, it had negative overtones, which indicates to me that you were thinking of the first definition, not the third. And KR certainty did not pursue and punish anyone. Therefore, not a vigilante.
Thanks.
Spencer, thanks again for your reply. I think some of the distinctions that you draw here perhaps create complications where there need be none. As Rittenhouse’s quote to the Daily Caller, which you embed in your article, suggests, Rittenhouse understood the end of his behavior to be that of protecting private property (“business”) from damage. It doesn’t really matter whether we call that a “cause”, an “end”, a “purpose”, etc. Whether he intended to shoot anyone, he thought that serving this end, whether directly or indirectly, required bringing an intimidating and conspicuous weapon. If that were not so, his behavior and his decision to be present with his weapon would be unintelligible. And if he had not made that decision, two fewer people would be dead. There are two levels at which we can evaluate his action:
(1) If we take his presence in the situation, armed, as a given, without evaluating it as a decision for which he could possibly be culpable, then we can regard his actions as self-defense.
(2) However, I think his decision to show up, armed, *is* a decision for which he is culpable. If he wouldn’t have shown up with his intimidating and conspicuous weapon, (which, in my view, was a poor decision), the situation would not have so predictably escalated, and two people would not be dead right now.
When you say, “The very fact that the police were unable to protect property in Kenosha indicates that KR’s reasons to show up and help were valid,” this looks to me like an admission that vigilante justice is justified, not an argument that it did not occur. Ultimately, though, less concerned to make a technical argument about what counts as “vigilante justice” than I am to argue that Kyle Rittenhouse is culpable for making a poor decision (corresponding to (2), not (1)) that predictably led to escalation and violence, and if he had not made such a decision, two people would not be dead.
Part of my willingness to view his decision to show up as a poor decision is also reflected in my view that private property is not that important in comparison to human life, and my view that it is extremely important to the preserve the public image, virtue, and integrity of a political movement. So, I don’t agree with you that “KR’s reasons to show up and help were valid.” I think he is a kid who made a stupid decision that predictably ended badly. I don’t think he’s evil, but I don’t think he’s a hero either.
Hi Alex,
So it seems we agree that KR is not a vigilante of the first definition, but he is of the third. Furthermore, we disagree on whether this is meaningful and whether it is a good thing. I think it is not very meaningful, you think it is. I think it’s good, you don’t. You also seem to think that it matters that he carried an intimidating and conspicuous weapon, while I think this is irrelevant because these are relative not absolute terms. First, a handful of militia carrying semi-automatic rifles is less conspicuous and less intimidating than several hundred rioters torching a city, looting, and firing guns of their own. Second, if you watch the “shoot me, nigga” video you will see how the mob was *not* intimidated by the militia at all, despite how conspicuous their weaponry was. So, again, your assertions are contradicted by the data.
Finally, I think we disagre about the nature of law enforcement and that no amount of argument will change that. You and I operate with different axioms. I find myself 100% in agreement with Kim Du Toit on this:
“And for the wailers who kvetch about “taking the law into their own hands” and similar handwringing, let me remind you of this fact: the law never left our hands. We citizens deputize the enforcement of our laws to the police; but if the police departments are unwilling, unable or ordered not to do so by their superiors (governors, mayors and so on), we reserve the right to enforce our laws ourselves.”
I think our differences boil down to this: I see the right to form militias to enforce the law when law enforcement cannot as baked in the cake in America thanks to the second amendment, and you do not.
Does that about sum it up?
Spencer Quinn, I’m not immediately sure whether I’d want to deny the general claim that one has a “right to form militias to enforce the law when law enforcement cannot.” For one thing, the notion of “right” is ambiguous here. It could refer to mere legal rights. But if I act in accordance with my legal rights, that does not guarantee in the least that my action is justified; it guarantees only that law enforcement is not permitted to punish me for the action. People do terrible things that are within their legal rights all the time. So if KR has a right to his action in this legal sense, that does nothing to justify his actions. But if by “right” you mean a general, extra-legal warrant in the sense of “sufficient reason” or “rational justification,” then you’re right that I would probably want to deny the claim that one has a general “right to form militias to enforce the law when law enforcement cannot.” I don’t think the failure of law enforcement to enforce any given law gives one a sufficient reason, ipso facto, to take the law into their own hands.
But note that this doesn’t mean that I think violent action outside of the bounds of the law could *never* be justified. It’s just that I’d want to evaluate such actions on a case-by-case basis, depending upon what the extant laws are and the moral structure of the situation. In this particular case, I don’t think KR had a sufficient reason to show up with his weapon. (Side note: your comment about my use of “intimidating” misses the point; I mention his “intimidating and conspicuous weapon” only to emphasize that the weapon’s visibility could (quite predictably) rapidly serve to escalate the psychological intensity and hostility of the situation, not that others would cower in fear at having seen it or anything like that).
On this note about vigilantism
Yesterday I saw a clip from NYC of a negro male attempting to rape a 25 year old woman on the subway. He had her pinned to the ground, dry humping her (which is rape in itself, period).
People videoed this scene on their phones but did not intervene.
Had a man on that subway, someone with some intestinal fortitude, intervened and kicked the rapist in the head to get him off of her, would that person be considered a “vigilante”?
I reject this notion that a citizen should not be allowed to intervene to protect life and property in the absence of law enforcement. I do think Kyle Rittenhouse was misguided as a juvenile. He should not have been allowed on the scene there. Many adults failed him. Having said that, the world would be a much better place if there were more Kyle Rittenhouses in our midst, people willing to risk their lives to help others instead of stand around with phones filming it.
See my most recent response to Spencer Quinn. I don’t claim that intervention is never justified; I just think that it depends upon the moral structure of the situation. As it happens, I don’t think KR was justified, but I think any of these bystanders would have been justified to intervene with this person you described getting raped; that sounds vile. (Of course, I don’t think they are entitled to do just *anything* with the rapist. If they needlessly bludgeoned him to death after the victim had already been saved, I don’t think this would count as justice.)
It is not an assault rifle. AR is “ArmaliteRifle” the original manufacturer. The 15 is for predators like coyotes, and wolves, feral hogs. AR30 is for large game…like elk. AR is known for long distance accuracy for hunting. It is not considered your typical up close self defense. However, a rifle or shotgun is legal to possess under 18 (federal law has no age restriction) and handgun possession has age restrictions. So, Kyle was in legal possession.
A machine gun is an assault weapon. People who call the AR15 an assault weapon show their ignorance about firearms. You should go to the AR 15 website and learn something.
A butcher knife is not categorically deemed an assault weapon simply because it was used to butcher people.
Thanks for the info. Wondering if I should get a long guns these days? It seems the AR-15 is very effective for medium ranges: no need to get an AR-30.
There is no entirely peaceful way out of this at this point. A show of strength now may save us much (and them) much suffering later. Weakness is a red flag to these people.
What’s his name said, “Our opponents are pussies”. They’re learning that’s not completely true by any means.
And the support for this kid is part of White America turning away from the Democrats and their terrorists.
All leftists are hypocrites and so are you. Even more: hipocrisy is the very foundation of the Left — from Christianity onwards.
Excellent analysis…..Civil War II has begun…
I’m on the side of Rittenhouse. However, there is the likelihood of pretty serious charges for felony possession of a firearm in which two people died. Here in Oklahoma we have lenient guns laws, but we have ex post facto continuation legal standards when it comes to felonies in which a death incurs. In Oklahoma he could get a murder charge. I don’t know how it works in Wisconsin.
Yeah, I’m worried about that, too. If ever there was an “equitable” case demanding a presidential pardon, this is it. We all need to donate to this brave young patriot’s defense fund – even if people can only give $10. The point is to make sure that he knows he has lots of real support among his people.
Who are you to deem it a felony? Federal law has no age restrictions on possession of rifles and shotguns. The state of Wisconsin?. You claim his actions were a felony? Not so.
Please present fact sources, not just pre judgement. Innocent until proven guilty. You should be concerned that the filthy BLM were convicted felons with weapons.
The young man isn’t guilty of anything. The very fact that James Fields is in prison should tell you and I that we do not have anything approaching a fair justice system. It’s just that the incident occurred in a Democrat controlled state in which Kyle Rittenhouse will be judged politically, not justly.
Great analysis.
Thank God the pro-White narrative is developing, he didn’t shoot any black people (only Jews) and that Whites are consolidating behind him.
This may be a turning point.
Sieg Kyle.
I hope Trump gives him a full pardon, but honestly the worst that can happen is that he will go to prison and be a god amongst men, get in shape, and then parole out in a few years. This young man is no criminal.
I don’t think the attacks on Rittenhouse show “terrifying determination” on the part of the left. Rittenhouse was highly vulnerable when he fell on the ground. The unidentified black man and Huber reached Rittenhouse before he could aim and fire his weapon. The black man tried to stomp him, and Huber tried to beat him with his skateboard. Either could have pinned Rittenhouse to the ground, and waited one second for the mob to arrive. Both were too eager to get their shots in. Then Grosskreutz decided to get in his face, rather than open fire from a distance. Rittenhouse showed great discipline and skill, but was also very lucky. Hopefully that continues in the legal process.
Three antifa shot, one with a rat like visage, another a jewish child molester and the third who happens to have a name that potentially echoes, what a cohencidence.
This article was absolutely right. Rittenhouse is an American, and even a white, hero. All men have the right to defend society, and it is advisable that those who are coolheaded take the lead. In this case, Rittenhouse was coolheaded. The thing that is more regrettable about this is that the charges he faces are state charges, and Trump cannot pardon state charges, only Federal ones. Hopefully, a local jury will see the wisdom in not sending a 17 year old to jail for nothing.
I’m embarrassed to admit I did not know that about Presidential pardons. Thanks for the information. Sadly, while this patriot could be pardoned by the relevant governor, both WI and IL are ruled by dirty Democrats. Too bad Scott Walker isn’t still Governor of WI (though maybe he would have chickened out). This is another reason why white patriots must gather into a comparatively small number of states ones which we can influence or control.
Lord Shang, even though Trump can’t lift State charges against Rittenhouse – it is an obvious opening for Trump (although he will waste a second term doing nothing), especially as Wisconsin is a battleground state that he must win. If Trump goes to WI and backs Rittenhouse clearly and publicly, he wins re-election. If Trump cucks on this, Biden wins. It’s that simple. I’m English – not American – but I’m incensed about this boy’s arrest from over the ocean, and I know that many millions of white Americans feel the same way. The stupid citizenship ceremony in the RNC convention, giving citizenship to a Muslim in a hijab, and a Negro and an Indian, was ridiculous – as Trump came to power on a promise to halt Muslim migration. Now he has a chance to send a better signal.
Great to hear from an Englishman who agrees with our side over here. I was appalled to see the number of Moslems in Sheffield where I visited for two months last year. Most of the women were in burqas, but most of the men were in jeans and t-shirts, just as if they had lived in the West for hundreds of years. Several old Christian churches had been ‘re-purposed’ as mosques in the neighborhood where I stayed, near Northern General Hospital, and Arabic lettering on other buildings let me know who owned them. We are heading toward the same thing here in America, and no one does a thing.
Alexandra, the Muslim communities in England are noted for voter fraud, so Trump is right to oppose vote by mail. Basically what happens is a Labour Party Muslim goes from house to house collecting voting slips from hundreds of Muslims, many of whom can’t speak English, and leave it to the Party organiser to fill in the actual voting slip and post the vote. All the things you say about churches turning into mosques are true. It would be better to bulldoze a church than to desecrate it by turning into a mosque. There are whole areas and whole cities where English people just can’t live.
When I was in Europe 40 years ago, I saw what was already happening. I called immigration “imperialism”. Is it not? My real question, though, is, how is it that the indigenous British/English don’t see this? You are being conquered in slow motion. I used to say that all the time to people (mostly my fellow Americans) in the 90s; people just couldn’t comprehend what I was saying. I chalked that up to the general atomization of (white) American life, combined with its transiency and decreasing old Anglo-Protestant ethnic core.
I have been calling for the “decolonization” and racial liberation of Europe at least since the 80s.
But what can account for this passivity in the face of invasion among the ancient peoples of Europe? You know racially and ethnically who you are, and that these aliens are not your people. You also should have known that the newcomers are undesirables, ranging from the merely alien, to the viciously criminally predatory. And yet the plain indigenes still did nothing – even electing and reelecting (!!) “leaders” who have made the situation vastly worse.
Clearly, then, when I say that white liberalism is an expression of an underlying defective genotype I am correct. It may require Jewish/liberal multicultural brainwashing to impart it, but this propaganda has found a far more fertile field among whites than nonwhites (who laugh at it and understand that genuine concern for racial justice and equality are merely white racial quirks, more Stuff White People {but no other people} Like).
A substantial portion, indeed, majority, of whites everywhere are racially defective. This is why global territorial ingathering of all non-defective whites, followed by territorial ideological and racial cleansing (ie, liberal as well as nonwhite expatriation), is imperative for our race and civilization to endure.
At the risk of being divisive, I find Americans frequently make this sort of comment, as if the invasion was peculiar to Europe, and as if the USA wasn’t in a far worse demographic state. Most working class Brits know exactly what is happening, but they have no political voice. Insofar as there is passivity and lack of awareness, you can blame the usual suspects: lying media, lying politicians, selective law-enforcement, mindless consumerism….No surprises, really.
That doesn’t really address my question. Yes, America is in worse shape – maybe. That was true 30 years ago; now, it is debatable. We are more nonwhite than, say, France, but I am not sure whether our diversity is worse than your Muslims. The latter may not be quite as violent as Africans (of which UK and France now have a not inconsiderable number themselves), but they are far more existentially dangerous, given their aggressive religion and ability to strategize complex terrorist operations, combined with geographic proximity to hundreds of millions more of their kind. Moreover, the US still has a) much more freedom of speech; b) vastly more armed patriots; and c) a lot more empty land for whites to flee to, if need be.
But the real issue is how did the ‘thick’ ethnocultures of Europe get so easily discarded and redefined? Talking about “lying media” and “mindless consumerism” merely begs the question. America has always been transient, a “New World”. We’ve long been open to newcomers. The psychology here is different. We also had a First Nations population predating white colonization, and a huge black population seen to be here legitimately since the end of the Civil War. We also obviously lack the ancient lineages and groundedness of so many Europeans. I know this has changed a great deal over the past half-century, but I am referring to Europeans in the 1960s-80s, many of whom were still living in places their families had lived in forever (and even today, I don’t think Europeans are as transient or rootless as Americans).
But Europe? How could anyone try to convince the English people that “England has always been racially diverse”? This is pure Orwellianism before your very eyes! Anyone with a nodding acquaintance with British history knows this is nonsense. Same would apply to other European countries. And yet the invasion has happening – and when your peoples have had the opportunity to do something about it, you failed (Enoch Powell, Jean-Marie Le Pen, any number of postwar European nationalist parties, etc). This proves my point about the genetic defectiveness of a vast number (clearly a majority) of whites. And that in turn justifies my claim that white preservationists must separate ourselves from all other whites. We are going to have to secure defensible and sovereign territory, and then breed (and educate) up a new white race, a survivalist one.
I agree, more or less. Rittenhouse is now a symbol of true “anarcho-tyrannical” injustice as much as a wronged person. Trump must mention this kid’s plight, again and again – and provide specifics as to what he can do for KR (within the ambit of his office), and what he is already doing for him. If Trump can capture the mantle of Defender of America (the nation and the republic, both of which he is, at least relative to (((Bernie)))-Biden), he will eke out victory.
All this talk of Trump should do this Trump that. Trump is a Jewish puppet. All his family are married to Jewry, one has even converted to Judaism (what ever that means). Trump, simplistically, harms whites by actions and laws he makes while spouting off at the mouth about being pro white which damages in two ways. The first is it angers all other races against white people, his tweets etc are designed to drum up hate against white people while he does nothing at all to aid white groups in any way. The second is it drags people in to trusting Trump while he continues the downward spiral of America via hundreds of ways not least by flooding America with brown and black racial curiosities from the worst parts of the earth giving them tax payer funded healthcare generated by white workers while cutting off any and all support for white America, leaving a ringed out carcas of despondent hopelessness. Jews are doing to America what they did to Rome, and emperor Trump is helping them knowing his family is safe now as they share blood with tribe, the time that has destroyed every culture and empire for the last two and a half thousand years, the rabbinic tribe of Jewry.
Re “Jacob Blake, a black felon who was resisting arrest and reaching for a knife in his car” :
Isn’t it more likely he was already (illegally) carrying a knife and was trying to surreptitiously ditch it in his car? Hence the reason he ignored police calls to stop and kept walking to his vehicle.
GoFundMe has removed sites in support of Kyle Rittenhouse. The bastards.
What kind of knife? Not all knives are illegal to concealed carry.
By “illegally” I was thinking more that he was carrying a knife for nefarious purposes.
It’s not against the law to own lock picks but if one were to be breaking into a property the possession of a kit would count against you.
But you’ve reminded me of a curious anomaly in US law. There are a few states where 2nd Amendment protections means it’s OK to buy a firearm, but it can be illegal to purchase and/or carry a switchblade. And isn’t it always the baddies in movies that pull a butterfly knife? (Damn, I wish I could do that impressive twirl.) The knives must be problematic either because they appeal to the mugger class or because the rapid deployment of the blade gives them a dangerous allure.
Outstandingly clear and correct analysis from Spencer Quinn. It’s appalling that the writers here are stuck here, instead of headlining the NYT or WaPo or at least WSJ, which I read daily, and whose editorial columnists are vastly inferior to what is on offer here at CC (the sole exceptions being a) the WSJ’s politico-juridico-economic analyses of particular pieces of pending legislation, and b) Karl Rove’s usually fairly astute political “ballgame” analyses of how the parties are doing in different states at any given moment; otherwise, CC writers beat WSJ’s regular editorialists hands down in both knowledge and analytical quality – and the WSJ may be the best general paper in America).
Lord Shang, Thank you for the kind words. Your feedback means a lot to me. Sorry I didn’t respond sooner.
This one kid has taken down more jewish pedophiles than the entire federal government
This was a very slim gap that Rittenhouse managed to get in, he is a cute kid, has no WN or neo-nazi background, a civ-nat and pro-police background, and used no more force than needed. No panic no hysteria, simply amazing for a 17 year old.
This gap is not for anyone with a WN past or current background and they should avoid the current BLM/antifa protests, there is little to be gained against these hyenas, who are destroying themselves without needing help, and you would get pilloried for your beliefs if you end up in court like James Fields did for his car-escapade at Charlottsville.
The question is when do we fight back and I think Kyle answered that quite clearly.Some people think we’re supposed to cower back and wait for law and order to return while they destroy everything.What if Biden wins? Do you think the 2nd amendment cannot be absolutely done away with very quickly?There are no principles with the Liberal government anymore.They don’t mind violating your rights and soon they won’t mind killing you.But how will we fight back with no guns or ammo.If Biden wins changes will come by way of the Supreme Court that would surprise the Devil.
This is how we can support him:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/08/christian-crowdfunding-site-raising-money-for-kenosha-killer-kyle-rittenhouse/
Yes, the direct link to the fundraiser on the GiveSendGo site is https://www.givesendgo.com/GUCZ
Orthodox Jew from Israel here
I sincerely hope and pray that Kyle get acquitted
White Americans deserve dignity and prosperity
What about the Talmud? Tobe shebe goyim harog. Kill the best of the gentiles.
Great question!
The talmud is a commentary of the Torah, plus a collection of many sayings of many Rabbis over centuries
There’s no getting around it
There is indeed a passage that says that very thing
So the question remains: is it law, or a Rabbis opinion?
The answer is the latter
No serious Rabbi would tell us to kill ANYONE, except in self defence or national defence (war)
Moreover, we must take in to account the context of that passage
There was no such thing as political correctness in the 5th century CE
I’m sure that the Babylonians had things to say about the Jews that would make Hitler jealous
So in short
Being an orthodox Jew does not mean a religious obligation to hate goyim
Quite the contrary: the actual law is it is forbidden for Jews to antagonize goyim for any reason when in a country other than our own
All these Jewish liberals you have to suffer from are a thorn in the side of real Jews
These liberal Jews are ignorant of the Torah and its anti liberal values
Nor do they care what Orthodox Jews think of them
I’m sorry that you have to deal with them
When the white nationalist uprising begins, I’ll have no sympathy for the fate of liberal leftist “Jews” in the diaspora
If you decide to ship em all to Israel, they’ll be our problem instead of yours
Sincerely, a real Jew and a white nationalist sympathiser
Know this: there are Jews on your side
Real world peace will happen when ALL nations go their separate ways
If the ‘opinion’ expressed in the Talmud carries no weight, why is it preserved. For that matter, why is there a Talmud at all? It’s not as if the Pentateuch isn’t blood-thirsty all on its own. Plenty of genocide to go around there and the occasional mass-murder such as the death of all first-born males. The Talmud exists and is revered and the revealed contents are largely vile.
Joshua is part of an operation that I’ve seen at more than one White-oriented website. The overall message is that there are ‘pro-White’ Jews in Israel who have serious disagreements with ‘leftist’ Diaspora Jews. There’s a guy over at American Greatness named ‘Pavel’ who runs the same game. It’s a scam and a game that the Jews are running in response to increasing awareness of the ill-effect of Jewish supremacy in the West.
Everyone should be clear on the fact that — no matter the suggestion otherwise — all ‘nationalist’ Jews are part of international Jewry.
If Diaspora Jews are threatened anywhere, Israel will throw it’s weight around to protect them (as best it can). If the Jews of Israel are threatened, the Diaspora Jews throw their (considerable) weight around to back Israeli Jews. If Jews in one country are under threat of losing their prominence, the Jews from other countries — including Israel — will direct resources to affect the politics of that country. If you doubt that’s how Jews work, you haven’t read their publications. They are quite open and proud of this elaborate system of ‘defense’ of their political and economic power.
The Jews are everywhere the same people and have an understanding of themselves as a single people and any Jew who pretends otherwise has been authorized to do so for a particular reason and not the declared one.
In any conflict, Jews will seek to join both sides. Thus, there are Jews at the top of both the Democrat and Republican parties. The same is going on with Joshua. Reading the tea leaves here, the Jews are attempting to cultivate a pro-Israel White Nationalism that they can influence/control as a divide-and-distract tactic within the larger — more anti-Semitic — White Nationalist movement.
I can understand why you’d say that and I don’t disagree
If the ‘opinion’ expressed in the Talmud carries no weight, why is it preserved. For that matter, why is there a Talmud at all? It’s not as if the Pentateuch isn’t blood-thirsty all on its own. Plenty of genocide to go around there and the occasional mass-murder such as the death of all first-born males. The Talmud exists and is revered and the revealed contents are largely vile.
The above can be said about the new testament, we can go on and on about who has the “worst” scripture from our subjective modern lenses
I am just one person with my own independent opinions and preferences and my own reasons for what I hold dear
I’m a proud Jew and I happen to like white people
What’s so hard to understand?
I have literally zero influence outside my own echo chamber
I don’t even vote in general elections, yet I am the most outspoken critic of Israeli foreign policy
I don’t even have money, let alone power or influence
I know you don’t care, but for what it’s worth, we’re not all the same
But then again, I would be a hypocrite to criticize your criticism of “us”
No, one cannot say the same of the New Testament. The Talmud already existed as a well developed oral tradition by then and he condemned it as “the traditions of men”. He never talked about killing anyone. Perhaps a weakness, since we don’t know what he believed about things like war and nations, etc.
Why not consider that sect that rejects the Talmud, the Karaite Jews?
First, the talmud was not fully completed in its current form until around 900ad in France
Talmud always existed alongside the Torah as an oral tradition and explanation of obscure or unclear verses
Writing the Talmud was an emergency measure to prevent it from being forgotten by the masses
In retrospect, writing it in stone was probably a bad decision because it led to factions and sects
As for the karaites: they are not authentic Jews because they take every single verse of the bible literally even when it’s logically absurd (for example, they sit in the dark on the Sabbath)
They are so few in number and influence that they are irrelevant
Nobody took them seriously since the days of maimonides
They are the Jewish equivalent of mormons!
Always? As in being transmitted from Mt Sinai? Only Jewish fundamentalists believe that.
The Talmud was complete by the year 500. Commentaries continue to be written and who knows – more by be added to the official corpus. It contains the teaching of the Jewish faith including hatred of Christ, Christians, and beyond that, all non-Jews. Read the “King’s Torah” for a recent offering. The main themes are clear though you try to deny them.
The Karaites have a beautiful faith without excessive hatred. I once told a Jewish man who had left Judaism because of the Ugliness about the Karaites and he became very happy and thanked me.
http://talmud.faithweb.com/
Well answered!
The original (apparently incompletely quoted) alleged Talmudic injunction merely records an opinion characteristic of its epoch, in which reprisals and atrocities were universal in warfare. By this point the Jews of Judea had fought three bitter and costly wars against Rome, losing each. Their Temple had been razed and they were being dispossessed from their land. Under such circumstances the collation of the Talmud was commenced: it makes no sense, as we are constantly reminded here, to reproach ancient texts and figures based upon modern conceptions of universal fairness and justice. Indeed historical persons revered in this blog, such as Thucydides or Julius Caesar, have said and done worse things.
Perhaps this canard (for such it truly is) will now be retired.
Right: I’ve been a fan of this site for about two years now
My fellow Jews often ask me why I love the whites so much
I tell them because they’ve done so much good for the world
We don’t have to worship them, but it common decency to show respect to the race that has civilised the world
In my experience, most white goyim are honest decent people who just want to be left to do their own thing
Before I returned to Israel, I lived in England, I never really experienced any hostility against me except for the odd name throwing
Most of the time I was treated with a mix of respect and curiosity
I guess because when you see real Jews, you realise they have the same basic family values
PS goyim is not a slur: it simply means “nations” or “regular human being”
I wonder what Nigerians or Ethiopians think of BLM?
I bet they’re rolling their eyes at the pampered blacks in America!
I believe the issue is that certain hyperliberal diaspora Jewish media figures are bitterly and implacably opposed to any attempt to limit Afro-Islamic immigration to Europe and Britain. These persons I believe are well-intentioned, wishing to avoid the evils of Europe’s past towards minority peoples and especially the Jewish people. But: some indigenous Europeans resent this campaigning, so that conspiracy theories and slanders against all Jews are dug up. These are an embarrassment and should be refuted, as you have done.
Now in my opinion ‘open borders’ are simply ruinious to Western civilisation, which is likely to be overwhelmed in a demographic transformation the like of which has not been seen for millennia. Already in England white British children are becoming a minority in schools and Islam is everywhere. Yet if Europe becomes an Islamic outpost, what benefit would that be to Jews living there? Already there have been attacks on French Jews by jihadists.
I think Israelis are more realistic on this question: and with good reason. They realise that if one is to keep and nurture what is worth preserving in a people and a culture, one must sometimes be hard-hearted — or even ruthless towards enemies. Which brings us back to your (and the Talmud’s) original point.
Very good
I totally respect that this is not my site
I’m just a guest who is offering my thoughts on what’s going on in the world
America is becoming increasingly uncomfortable for Jews and I like it that way
Even the mainstream are having serious discussions about whether the time for leaving the diaspora
http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/82920-show-287-what-happens-if-the-democrats-win/
I would not like to see the Jews to disappear from Britain or Europe: their intellect and industry set an example for the rest of us!
Many British Jews now support the Conservative party after Labour adopted pro-Palestinian policies and associated with some openly antisemitic Islamists.
My opinion is that a hyperliberal viewpoint is of no benefit to either diaspora Jews (especially observant ones) or the nations in which they reside.
Your last comment could have been framed up on the wall on any zionist’s home. No matter their ethnicity.
Ah, moral universalism, our deadliest enemy. Our parents are best because they are our parents. Our nations are best because they are our nations. Our villains are best because they are our villains.
Any minute now I expect people to start putting White in parenthesis. That happened here a few years ago.
The wily Jew has defeated you.
This affair has the potential to be a major game changer. It just may be that mainstream White Americans will rally behind Kyle Rittenhouse and from there start down the path to racial awareness.
It makes sense. Increasing numbers of White people are fed up with the rioting, the lying media, the iconoclasm, the cucking GOP politicians, being told that their own lives do not matter. Kyle is an apparently clean cut kid, he was doing his civic duty (as part of the unorganized militia?), he pulled the trigger in self defense. It’s all stuff that more Americans want to do but just were not willing to cross that line…and least not until now.
The state’s persecution of Kyle while it tolerates massive criminal violence in the streets makes the point all the more. As if it were not all too obvious, the System has completely abandoned any legitimacy it might once have claimed. It’s anarcho-tyranny nationwide on the telescreens.
The question is: what is to be done by the Dissident Right?
Well, getting involved directly could have all sorts of legal, tactical and optical downsides. Perhaps the best thing is to stand back and continue the metapolitical struggle. Provide the ideological foundations for awakening that White racial consciousness.
As precedent, consider the hysterical tantrums the Left threw upon the election of Donald Trump back in November 2016, or after the flag waving Second Amendment rally in Richmond, Virginia earlier this year. And why did the Left throw those tantrums? Because you get enough White people in one place and there is the potential of wakening some real racial consciousness. Propaganda of the deed and all that sort of thing.
Some random thoughts:
* Relate this affair to the background issue of anti-White propaganda and indoctrination in just about every institution of the Homeland.
* Point out that while every other racial group in America has its advocacy groups, White people do not – and then outline how just such an organization could be set up.
* Use the reported GoFundMe ™ dropping Kyle’s defense funding to press for legislation prohibiting online crowdsourcing companies from cutting off people for their politics.
* Bang the drum on the anarcho-tyranny score.
* Meme: “Free Kyle and All Political Prisoners!”
* Glorify other White people who have stood up and fought back.
* Get on the case of assorted gun rights groups and pressure them into backing Kyle and other citizens who have used firearms in defense against the insurrectionists.
* Discredit the “White-Supremacist” narrative; i.e., if the media is lying about Kyle Rittenhouse being a “White Supremacist,” then the media narrative about some vast conspiracy of “White Supremacists” is also fake.
Consider how the Left glorifies career criminals who while under the influence actively resisted the lawful orders of police officers. Yep, they sure know how to pick ’em. Then consider how real heroes could be created from law abiding citizens like Kyle Rittenhouse who were defending lives, liberties and sanity.
This bears further discussion…
I think you’re in the dilemma of you’ll be hated no matter what you do
Whatever you decide to do, do it with uncompromising conviction
Who’s a “vigilante” anyway?
“No Justice No Peace” is as vigilante as you can get.
Remind anyone who needs reminding.
Or how about their, “No Justice, No sleep” campaign, with threats to do far more? That enough to make involuntary vigilantes out of all of us.
No more They Live, We sleep. They insisted that we wake up. Well now we have and we don’t like what we’re seeing.
While I don’t doubt that Kyle Rittenhouse should be aquitted under US law, I must say that from a UK perspective the events leading to his indictment seem both bizarre and worrying.
Having studied the available videos it appears that he belongs to a libertarian group, the ‘Boogooloo Boys’, who on the night in question attempted to direct and shield a ‘Black Lives Matter’ protest, urging them to confine their vandalism and mayhem to assaults on government property. Although the ‘Boogooloo Boys’ in attendance appeared to be a multiracial outfit, they soon incurred the ire of Antifa types (naturally) setting up the shootings under discussion.
I find I cannot condone the politics or tactics of these ‘Boogooloo Boys’: in addition to their ideas being repugnant to societal goods such as socialised medicine that I strongly believe in, their tactics — attempting to ‘shepherd’ the Antifa — were unwise to the point of insanity!
Of course the police are delinquent here, for political reasons: but this must be tacked at a political level first. For private individuals it is best to stay away and only resort to violence if one’s own person, family or property are directly threatened.
Nah, that kind of “get off my lawn” patriotism will be the death of us. America was built on the posse and the militia, working in tandem with official forces, be it the United States cavalry or the sheriff and his deputies.
You talk about socialized medicine (I agree) and then drop the ball on privatized defense. England was created not by individuals working alone, but war bands of men be they Celtic, Saxon, Danish, or Norman. The individual alone is either an animal or a god as the Ancient Greeks said. But Men are not such as such. Indeed, the Church only allows men to become hermits if they’ve fulfilled the social discipline of the monastery for many years. Then they know that his aspiration isn’t something neurotic and may be a true calling from the Spirit. The Church Fathers in old Syria demanded that Simon Stylites come down off his pillar. He immediately complied. Thus they let him go back up again.
I agree in part, but these “Boogooloo Boys” are no posse comitatus! Kyle Rittenhouse is from a different state and he and his friends’ purpose was apparently to direct the Antifa away from private property.
Anyone with an ounce of political nous knows that Anitfa despise Libertarians and that therefore violence was all but certain. Add pistols and semi-automatic hunting rifles and you have the ingredients of a shoot-out.
In a sense this is now irrelevant as the liberal media has chosen to crucify Mr Rittenhouse as a ‘Trump supporter’, hoping to tar all such ahead of the election as potential lunatics or domestic terrorists. If this tactic succeeds and the shambling Mr Biden is installed later this year, expect another crackdown on dissent from the Right.
The “he’s from another state!” line is typical media hysterics, please do not give it credence (especially not as part of a larger discussion about traditional Anglo Saxon law enforcement and defense). I understand most people aren’t familiar with Midwestern geography but Kyle only had to cross the county line to get to Kenosha, a 40 minute drive from Antioch.
Vehmgericht, I’m also in the UK. While I might agree Rittenhouse was unwise to take part in the thing on the night in question, that is a question of tactics only. I would urge all other young men not to confront Antifa on the streets. But this is irrelevant; the governor of the state is responsible for the vacuum of law and order, and he (h0wever unwisely) chose to fill it, and acted in self-defence. He is not guilty of anything. In fact, Trump should have closed down Antifa, bringing in troops to gun them down, and should not have left it to a 17yo boy to do his job. Rittenhouse must be freed.
Yes, and white nationalists should be very visible in the “Free Kyle Rittenhouse!” cause. This is exactly the kind of place where white nationalism can overlap with conservative (and even libertarian) normality, and make contacts and win converts.
The Enemy got one of ours:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/blm-activists-celebrated-as-trump-supporter-killed-devine/
RIP, patriot.
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