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Come Back to Disney, Jimmy Gunn, Jimmy Gunn

James Gunn

2,451 words

For those of us on the Right who are conspiracy-minded, the Trump administration has been the gift that keeps on giving. Of course, the political conspiracies are fun to read about: Pizzagate, the Deep State, Russian collusion, the Steele dossier, illegal wiretapping, fake news. There’s no end to it. These are all elements of 2010s political ephemera which at first glance seem about as meaningful as hanging chads and swift boats were in the previous decade. But with President Trump being such a wildcard, who knows? Maybe there is something to these modern conspiracies. Maybe Pizzagate is real. Perhaps Seth Rich really was taken out for knowing too much? Considering how venal and arrogant our establishment elites have become, I wouldn’t put it past them for orchestrating all of this evil stuff behind the curtains.

But there’s another conspiracy that gets less play these days, but throbs intensely on sites like Neon Revolt and is fueled by an indefatigable army of anonymous shitposters on places like 4chan and 8chan. Here it is, more or less: A cabal of Jewish pedophiles is running Hollywood and maybe the world. Behind the scenes, actors and directors are required to debase themselves sexually to loathsome Jewish moguls in order to make or preserve their careers. Behind the scenes, beloved actors are closeted sex-addicts, have horrendous drug habits, collect kiddie porn, and the like. Everything in this modern Babylon is behind the scenes, and if anyone speaks out about it, they run the risk of getting whacked. Remember how some B-list celebrity committed suicide or died under dubious circumstances recently? Yeah, well, some anonymous shitlord on the chans who’s on the inside assures us that it wasn’t so dubious, and in a few days he will drop something big. Movie producer Harvey Weinstein is the biggest fish that’s been yanked out of this fetid pond recently, but there are others. Believe me, there are others.

Of course, I don’t know how much of this is true. I’m sure some of it is. But how much of it is actually orchestrated by a hedonistic cult of degenerate, Satan-worshipping child molesters and how much is made up by attention-deprived, out-of-work screenwriters with fertile imaginations, I have no idea. If you have a couple hours to spare, check out Neon Revolt and see for yourselves.

Recently, however, this war between the chans and Hollywood got real, and the chans scored a notable victory. A-list Hollywood director James Gunn of Guardians of the Galaxy fame got fired by Disney because independent Alt Lite journalist Mike Cernovich unearthed some tweets from ten years ago in which Gunn made odious jokes about rape and pedophilia. Then the chans went at it and revealed other unwholesome tidbits, including how Gunn shares lewd videos from convicted pedophiles and the like. This, by the way, is the same James Gunn who a month or so ago applauded Roseanne Barr’s firing on his now-deleted Twitter account because of one supposedly racist tweet from Roseanne. Since then, lines have been drawn between Left and Right over whether Gunn deserves his fate and whether Disney deserves to lose millions as a result of his fall. The reporting of this event on the Right has been so strong that I have little to add to it. James Kirkpatrick at VDARE offers the best take, in my opinion.

As with the Michael Richards affair from a few years back, the current series of events provides the opportunity to explore the nature of comedy and the tribalism which encapsulates it. All comedy is about reversal: expecting one thing and getting another. Typically, the thing you expect will be less controversial than what you end up with. The more controversial the punch line, the edgier the comedy. But with all comedy, there are no-go zones, and often these no-go zones are determined by whatever tribe to which the joke-teller and his audience belong. In some cases, the tribe in question is the human race. The kitschy career of William Shatner certainly gives us a lot to laugh about, but when asked by Comedy Central in 2006 if any jokes were off limits for his upcoming roast, he said, yeah, don’t make fun of how my wife drowned in our swimming pool.

To make fun of anything like the accidental drowning of an innocent person puts you outside the human race, since such an event is always tragic and could happen to anyone. Key and Peele, in their typical cerebral style, make a similar point in their “Insult Comic” sketch. In it, a stereotypical insult comedian squirms onstage as he is forced to make fun of a disabled audience member who is horribly disfigured and must speak through a voice box. So, for Key and Peele, making fun of a person who can’t be made fun of – and failing miserably – is, in itself, funny.

Comics will often skirt as close as possible to their no-go zone without crossing into it. Or, if they do, it’s either only briefly or done in such a clever manner that he gets away with it. This reveals something important: that the comic wants to change the placement of that no-go zone, and so bombards it with jokes which in effect weaken it and force its proponents to either defend it or retreat. Lenny Bruce made a career out of this sort of thing. He was a foul-mouthed drug addict and wanted to live in a world in which foul mouths and drug abuse were completely normal. Edgy humor is often an attempt to normalize tomorrow what is forbidden today.

Things can get really funny or really offensive when that edginess becomes tribal, that is, when one tribe makes fun of another. When the long-toed tribe is here and the short-toed tribe is over there, then short-toe jokes will probably be well-received, even if they’re mean-spirited, because there is no one around to get offended. But when people of different tribes occupy the same space, then you never know whom you’re going to offend with tribal humor. It reminds me of how a young Eddie Murphy used to viciously mock homosexuals (whom he would deride as “faggots”) but would jokingly make sure there weren’t any homosexuals in the audience before doing so.

Fast-forwarding to Michael Richards and James Gunn, both of these men made use of inter-tribal humor which was not terribly funny to in-group members and unforgivably offensive to out-group members. That was their sin, and their careers have been destroyed as a result of it. But because they are two sides of the same coin – similar humor, opposing tribes – they become interesting. Their humor inadvertently reveals not only the nature of their tribes and their respective no-go zones, but why their tribes oppose each other to begin with.

In 2006, Richards was doing his standup routine when he referred to a pair of black hecklers as “niggers” and said, “Fifty years ago we’d have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass.”

From a Rightist perspective, dissident or otherwise, such a rant is tasteless, violent, and mean. There is little use in dredging up the uglier aspects of an obsolete system of oppression, even if it did serve a vital purpose. But some of the humor is still forgivable because there were times, sadly, when such violent oppression of blacks was necessary. People on the Dissident Right are well aware of the reality of race and the disproportionate criminality of blacks, and so Richards’ jibes do have a ring of truth to them, even if they were crudely rendered. Although I am sorry that Richards had his comedy career ruined over this one rant, the violent nature of his words makes me loath to defend him.

Compare Richards’ rant to the following offensive joke:

A black fourth-grader is sad one day and says to his mom, “Mom, I don’t understand it, but I feel different from the other boys.”

“How so?” asks Mom.

“Well, my private parts are bigger, and I am sexually attracted to my teachers,” responds the boy.

“Don’t be sad about that,” says Mom. “What you’re feeling is perfectly natural.”

“Why is it natural?”

The mother then smiles and pats the boy on the head and says, “Because you’re seventeen years old.”

This joke resorts to the same kind of white-on-black tribal humor that Richards’ did. But it’s clever and it points out some real problems that we face in today’s multiracial society: that blacks on the whole are not terribly bright, they have a hard time controlling their sexual urges, and they’ve become a burden on our education system. They deserve to be laughed at for this.

Of course, the Left would find both jokes unforgivable because, through their edginess, these jokes attempt to normalize race-realism. And as we all know, race-realism is verboten on the Left. Upon closer inspection we can see why. Using a crude white-black axis, we can divide what we call “the Left” in this instance into three parts: blacks, whites who don’t believe in race-realism, and whites who do. The first group wishes above all else to expand political and cultural influence for themselves. Laughing at themselves for their very real racial flaws only distracts from this end, and therefore must be shunned or punished. The second group either denies that black people have these flaws to begin with or infantilizes black in order to blame whites for these flaws. Thus they become offended by the cruelty of the humor. And the third group simply wants to destroy the Right in the culture wars, and so will anathematize anything that energizes Right-wing people, regardless of what the truth is.

Three reasons, none of them good in my opinion.

Now, click here and here and here for some of the tweets that got James Gunn in trouble. These pedophilia jokes are so disgusting I don’t want to sully this article or Counter-Currents in general with repeating them. What makes them disgusting, at least to someone on the Right, is how Gunn made children the butt of the humor in the same way that the previous two jokes made fun of blacks. Some of his jokes even seemed to celebrate pedophilia. This is a distinction that David Cole misses in his defense of Gunn. Cole seems to believe that Gunn’s greatest sin was not telling funny rape or pedophilia jokes. Therefore, since being unfunny is not the same as being immoral, Gunn deserves to keep his job at Disney. As evidence, Cole offers an example of Norm MacDonald telling a Bill Cosby rape joke and no examples of a funny pedo joke. Cole’s logic asks us why we go after James Gunn when guys like Norm MacDonald get a pass.

This is because, in his routine, MacDonald makes Cosby and his penchant for slipping mickies the butt of the joke. In the joke, the Cos leads an unsuspecting woman to his hotel room, where he offers her some water. She then asks why the water is purple. Ha Ha. As for funny pedo jokes, Vox Day says they don’t exist. But they do. I remember on a Comedy Central roast a few years back, a comic (perhaps Jeff Ross) insulted another comic (perhaps Patton Oswalt) by saying he was the kind of person who would order a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese’s. Ha Ha. As with the first joke, the perv goes splat. Remember the bit about tribes? These jokes assign non-pedos/rapists to one tribe and pedos/rapists to another and then let them have it. This kind of thing may not be to your taste, but they are hardly worth being excoriated over.

James Gunn’s jokes, however, do not do this. James Gunn’s jokes instead place him and anyone who would find his tweets funny in the same tribe as the pedophiles. That’s what the Right finds so outrageous about them. And it’s not fake outrage, either. Where the jokes from the Right had at least some truth behind them, there is no similar truth behind Gunn’s.

Unless you feel that children deserve to be raped.

Unless you have no concern for humanity’s future.

These are not truths at all unless you are a complete nihilist or wish to normalize the sexualization of children in the way that Lenny Bruce helped normalize profanity. It was because of this double-whammy that Disney correctly decided to fire Gunn. Because the Left and its proxies in the center (such as Cole and Ben Shapiro) have gone to bat for Gunn in this affair, it reveals that they find nihilism and the sexualization of children acceptable. You’re not part of Gunn’s tribe if you don’t.

A thought experiment to prove my point: Suppose Gunn had tweeted jokes celebrating murder or sadism. Would the same cast of characters still be clamoring on his behalf? Suppose James Gunn, with his razor-sharp wit, had joked about raping Jews in concentration camps or black-American slaves in cotton fields, would the same bevy of enlightened individuals still be demanding that he continue earning eight figures at Disney? Let’s take it even further. Suppose Gunn had cracked wise about how much fun it would be to rape Jewish children or black children or – better yet – retarded Jewish and black children, would these same people continue to stick up for him as an upstanding purveyor of children’s entertainment?

I think not.

David Cole can refer to the Gunn firing as a “witch hunt” or “speech suppression” all he wants. Ben Shapiro can talk about “bad precedents” and “outrage mobs” all he wants. The cast of Guardians of the Galaxy can swear up and down about what a great guy Gunn is. But the truth is, we all have a line. We all have that no-go zone, and it is the placement of that no-go zone which determines where a person’s moral center lies and the nature of the tribe to which he belongs. Jokes can be tasteless and offensive coming from both the Left and Right. Offensive jokes from the Right, especially the ones dealing with race, may be cruel, but tend to be rooted in truth because race-realism is rooted in truth. That other tribe over there really does have short toes, you know. That’s why jokes about them are so funny. But the most offensive jokes coming from people on the Left these days exhibit the kind of nihilism and depravity than can and do ruin civilizations. And when we object, the rest of their tribe rushes to protect them like water swirling down a drain.

Spencer J. Quinn is a frequent contributor to Counter-Currents and the author of the novel White Like You.

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  1. LAP
    Posted August 2, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if you would find some interest in this English produced TV special that made a whole episode based on Paedo jokes.

  2. Anon
    Posted August 3, 2018 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    I have to say the focus on James Gunn is sad and pathetic. He had a running joke that was clearly a joke when he was just a semi-working director. It’s a joke about taboos no different to other jokes about taboos. A lot of guys that age would make those jokes. It’s Jimmy Carr tier stuff and worse can even be seen in episodes of Family Guy or South Park.

    I just don’t get what he actually did wrong. It doesn’t help that so many brain-dead goons and goon-types like Kiwi Farms seem to actually have convinced themselves that he is a pedophile. It’s not a good look.

    Hopefully with this whole Sarah Jeong thing that the alt-right can stop embarrassing itself about Gunn. Whatever else we can be sure Gunn doesn’t actually want to see children sexually abused. Given the social political landscape of the West over the last 30 years we can be sure that Ms Jeong’s joke tweets do reveal her inner feelings about white people (It’s not taboo-breaking human to insult white people) and that’s a political debate that has almost never been had. It’s revealing the attitudes of a lot of people and forcing them to defend or even expose their racial hatred.

    Though if nothing else Gunn being absent from the final GoTG film will be sweet to see when people realise it looks the same as the other two because Gunn was a hired hack and had no influence on the production at all and the machine will carry on without him with some other hired hack.

    • Andy
      Posted August 3, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      This comment seems to simply ignore the arguments in the essay: that humor often serves to distinguish one tribe from another, that everyone has a line beyond which jokes are not acceptable, etc. Someone ‘jokes’ many hundreds of times–kind of obsessively, it would seem–about sex with young children, where the suffering of the children not the perversion or evil of the pedophile is the source of the ‘humor’. It’s not implausible to wonder, at least, whether this person is trying to normalize pedophilia, or whether he’s indicating that he belongs to the pedo or pedo-sympathetic tribe rather than the tribe of people who think pedophilia is horrific.

      And yet we can be “sure” that this guy “doesn’t actually want to see children sexually abused”? Really? What is the rational basis for being sure. We know that there are people who do want to see that. We know that sometimes they make similar “jokes”. We also know that it’s more than a little unusual for a man in his forties to make hundred and hundreds of “jokes” on this topic, which most people find distinctly unfunny. So we might wonder what kind of culture he inhabits, where this kind of thing can become “a running joke” that’s regarded as no big deal. One theory: a culture inhabited by a lot of pedophiles or pedophile-sympathizers.

      No, we certainly can’t be “sure” that he isn’t actually a pedophile or at any rate trying to normalize pedophilia. Give me a break.

      • Spencer J. Quinn
        Posted August 4, 2018 at 6:51 am | Permalink

        Great response. Thank you, Andy. You saved me the effort of having to respond to Anon’s comment.

  3. Turbo
    Posted August 3, 2018 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I saw a George Carlin show once, can’t remember if it was live or on TV, during which he claimed that you can make a joke about anything. To prove it, he announced he would tell a rape joke. I was excited, to say the least, and I imagine many in his audience were too. This was a good intellectual exercise for us good folk, the hipsters, we told ourselves during our frisson. Then he told the joke, which unfortunately or fortunately I can’t remember, and no one laughed. Not one in his soldout audience laughed, because it wasn’t funny. Carlin just moved on without missing a beat, and the audience was soon roaring as if nothing had happened. Very strange and yet encouraging. There are still taboos in the West that are bedrock solid.

    • Spencer J. Quinn
      Posted August 4, 2018 at 6:49 am | Permalink


      Yes! I remember that. I had actually considered including that in this piece but felt it would have made it too long. If I remember correctly, Carlin’s joke was bringing up a news report of man in his twenties raping a woman in her nineties. The punchline, such as it was, consisted of the single question: “Why?”

      I think Carlin was more interested in the act of telling a rape joke than he was in making it funny. Also, it wasn’t really a rape joke because he took the emphasis off the rape and onto the fact that elderly women are not attractive. That’s not particularly funny and why the joke fell flat.

  4. Peter Quint
    Posted August 6, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    What would you call “The Flintstones,” if they were black?

    Answer: “The Niggers!”

    Ha, ha, ha, ha!

    That was a joke asked of James Woods in the movie “Just Another Day In Paradise.” I’m surprised you did not include this. (((James Woods))) plays a jewish drug dealer who is asked this joke right before a drug deal with neo-nazis goes bad, and ends in a shoot-out. When Woods is asked this joke, he is dead-panned at the answer, but when he is making a get-away with his surrogate son, one of them tells the joke again, they crack-up, and roll with laughter. You should watch it.

  5. Spencer J. Quinn
    Posted August 7, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    David Cole has kindly informed me that I was mistaken in a small point above. He did provide evidence of Norm MacDonald telling a pedo joke. It’s in the first minute of the video he links. But his link provides starts after the five and a half minute mark, so my assumption was that the relevant material came after that point, hence my claim that he provided no evidence for MacDonald telling pedo jokes.

    I don’t think this impacts my main argument at all. MacDonald’s joke is strange and I am not sure where the humor lies. Also, the clip was so short it’s hard to tell the context in which the joke was told. In any event, it doesn’t seem nearly as egregious as what James Gunn tweeted. But you all can watch the video and judge for yourselves.

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