Now Expanded & in Audio Version
Don’t Let the Bastards Get You Down
2,000 words / 12:14
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The recent wave of disgusting attacks on Tara McCarthy, Lauren Southern, and other women associated with the Alt Right can only be demoralizing and discouraging. Which is, of course, why they were launched in the first place. This sort of cyber-bullying is bad enough to watch, but I can assure you from personal experience that being on the receiving end of such attacks feels 100 times worse than it looks. Moreover, since in truth I am a rather cold fish, the effect on more sensitive people, especially women, has to be multiplied even more.
Millennial Woes has dealt with the various arguments — or pretexts — offered in this campaign in an important video here. I just want to offer some moral support and words of encouragement to Tara and Lauren, as well as to their vocal defenders and silent sympathizers. But my arguments also apply to anyone else who is thinking of quitting the movement for any personal reasons, but especially the chronic drama and infighting.
Many of you, no doubt, feel so disgusted with the Alt Right that you are thinking of quitting. And who can blame you? But before you make any irrevocable decisions, consider these points.
1. Everyone in this movement inevitably finds himself wondering, “If the cause of White Nationalism is so good, why are the people so bad?” But we have to remind ourselves: “Despite the fact that the people are so bad, the White Nationalist cause still remains good.” (I am paraphrasing an argument I read online years ago. If anyone can give me a citation, I would appreciate it.) The point is to see that, ultimately, the core of the movement is an idea, not a set of people. The people are there just to serve the idea, and that includes us.
2. Whenever your enthusiasm for the cause wavers, remind yourself that you are doing this because, first and foremost, you think this is right. White Nationalism is about putting the common good of our race over individual interests whenever they conflict. That includes our own interests. A true idealist also acts out of duty rather than personal pleasure, whenever the two conflict. Yes, this cause is often joyful, and a successful movement has to offer personal rewards and pleasure. But in the last instance, we do what we do because it is right, not because it is fun. Which is how we stick to it when it isn’t fun.
None of us may live to see free white homelands. So our activism is, at its core, sacrificing ourselves for the common good, for the future of our people. There’s a saying that a society becomes great when people plant trees so their descendants can enjoy shade. White Nationalism is about creating a world in which our race has a future, even if we do not share in that future. But we can share its greatness today. And that greatness shines most brightly when we endure the hard times, sustained by idealism alone. Of course the movement has to offer more than idealism and sacrifice. But they are the bedrock upon which it is built, and it will fail without them. Our race dies a little every time we choose self-indulgence over duty, the present over the future, private interests over the common good.
3. No, the idea cannot triumph without attracting good people. And every bad person who clings to this cause repulses a hundred better ones. So we have to understand why there are so many bad people and figure out ways of attracting better ones. But the White Nationalist idea is absolute. The people are fungible, and if good people are quitting while stupid, crazy, and evil ones are running amok, the movement is going to fail. When decent people listen to their feelings of disgust and start thinking of quitting, they are letting the bastards win. You can’t do that. You’ve got to listen to your idealism instead, and you also need to turn up your disgust a notch. If someone is behaving in a manner so disgusting that you are thinking of abandoning all that is good and holy, perhaps you should feel a bit disgusted with yourself as well. Beyond that, if someone is disgusting enough to drive you from the battle, aren’t they also disgusting enough for you to want to crush them? Because that’s the spirit we need.
4. Of course, once you go beyond the beatific vision of crushing your enemies and ask yourself exactly how it can be accomplished, it dawns on you that we can’t really get rid of these people. We can’t kill them. We can’t throw them in prison. We can’t get them off the internet. We can’t track down every donor and supporter. We can’t shame and silence every shill. We can’t revoke some sort of membership in the movement. We can’t “purge” them.
But they can’t do that to us, either.
White Nationalism is a decentralized, pluralistic, largely virtual movement. There are plenty of cliques and groupuscules and scenes. But there is no absolute inside and outside. There is no king, pope, or dictator. No arbiter of who is in and who is out. We can’t even rid this movement of doxers, embezzlers, con artists, miscegenators, drunkards, druggies, chronic failures, and controlled opposition. But somehow, some of us have made a science of driving away decent people. That has to stop. The closest thing we can do to purging all the bad elements is simply to leave them alone. Let them have the Alt Right. Let the Alt Right become an abscess into which all the poisons drain.
5. Recognize that all the power is in your hands. Nobody can make you leave this movement. Only you can do that. So don’t.
If only you can make you leave the movement, your enemies depend entirely upon you to hand them a victory. Which makes this a very stupid campaign. Nobody can remain a leader for long if he fails repeatedly. That goes for online lynch mobs as well as political movements. The best way to avoid failure is to choose goals that you can actually accomplish. The more the outcome depends on your actions and the less it can be controlled by your opponents, the greater the chance of success.
In this case, however, success depends entirely on the victims. If Lauren and Tara hold firm, they win, and their enemies look incredibly weak and foolish: weak for failing, foolish because when you pare away all the he-man, alpha male posturing and anti-feminist invective, these men have framed their campaign in such a way that all the power is in the hands of the women they are attacking. This sort of stupidity is why the movement has been lurching from one self-induced defeat to another for the past year.
6. Manage your expectations. There will never be a movement without destructive infighting, and it is unreasonable to expect otherwise. Even if we could convert or drive out the worst elements in the movement, the establishment that opposes us would simply create replacements. In short, these people, whether they know it or not, whether they intend to or not, are doing the enemy’s work. Their goal is to create a smaller, weaker, poorer, more marginal, but “purer” movement — a movement with a madhouse atmosphere that repulses the normal and the superior — a movement that has zero chance of resonating with the masses, changing the course of history, and saving our race from extinction.
Well, that is the goal of our enemies as well. So if the troublemakers did not exist, the enemy would find it necessary to create them. Note that I am not accusing anyone of being an enemy agent. I am actually accusing them of being something far more contemptible: people who do the enemy’s work for them, for free. Their motives ultimately don’t matter. Controlled opposition or not, the results are exactly the same.
But if these people will always be with us, then they cannot constitute an argument for quitting, for then the movement will simply fail. Indeed, they only constitute an argument for working harder.
7. Imagine, though, that it were possible to completely extirpate movement infamy. If you try it, you will discover that it will quickly consume all your time and energy and prevent you from being able to do any positive work. But our positive work is what will change the world, and we cannot let ourselves be deflected from it. Ultimately, the best way to defeat one’s opponents is simply to ignore them and focus on making constructive contributions to the movement. Always remember that we are in the business of slaying dragons, not swatting flies. (Of course, everyone needs a hobby, and if your hobby is trying to root out the worst elements in the movement, more power to you.)
8. Count your blessings. I love this cause, and even with all the bad aspects, I would not trade my life for anything. As I put it in one of my essays:
There have been times when I wished that I had never gotten involved with White Nationalism. I tend to focus on the negative and forget about the positive. Sometimes I brood over the fact that the craziest, crookedest, most loathsome people I have ever encountered have been White Nationalists — forgetting that the finest people I know are White Nationalists as well.
My complaining finally angered a good friend, a secret agent who does as much as he can for the cause. He told me that I lead an enviable life, that I work full time for the most important cause in the cosmos, that I can speak the truth as I see it for the rest of my days. Then he reminded me of the basic premise of Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Buffy has super-powers and is part of a secret initiatic society doing battle with the forces of evil. Night after night, she is literally saving the world. And yet . . . all she wants to be is an ordinary high school cheerleader.
Well, when you put it that way, I choose to fight evil and save the world.
9. Don’t allow yourself to burn out. Even though idealism and self-sacrifice must, in the last instance, be what sustains this movement through the trials, if life were nothing but trials we would burn out and become useless to the cause. So do everything you can to build personal rewards into your activism. Above all, do not let yourself become isolated. Cherish the good people and do everything you can to avoid the bad ones.
10. Up your emotional intensity. I am haunted by W. B. Yeats’ lines in “The Second Coming”: “The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity.” Other things being equal, this differential alone will be enough to bring any movement to ruin. I can’t help but believe that these sorts of internet lynch mobs could be nipped in the bud if more sensible people were to speak out against them, as early and emphatically as possible. I certainly pledge to do so in the future.
11. Call their bluff. Go ahead and quit the Alt Right. Let the misogynists, MGTOWs, and spergs have it. Let the Nazis have it. The Alt Right is not the movement. It is just a “brand,” just an umbrella term that only played a positive role when it was not identified with Nazis and other toxic, self-marginalizing ideologies. That ended with hailgate and has only intensified throughout 2017. Don’t prize symbols over substance, especially tarnished symbols over a shining substance. The substance of our movement is its goal: creating free homelands for all white peoples, which is how I define White Nationalism. If women are not welcome on the Alt Right, they are welcome at Counter-Currents.
The Alt Right is dead. Long live White Nationalism. Long live populist nationalism. Long live Identitarianism. Call it anything you like, as long as you keep your eye focused on the prize.
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 527 Machiavellianism & More
The Machiavellian Method
Enoch Powell, poslední tory
Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 526 Cyan Quinn Reports from CPAC & More
Remembering Richard M. Weaver (March 3, 1910–April 1, 1963)
La Russie et l’Ukraine, à nouveau
An Open Letter to Scott Adams
“The Alt Right is dead. Long live White Nationalism…”
White Nationalism should be the destination for every mature individual. I do wonder, though, if the “Alt-Right” (for which I can’t say I’ve ever felt anything but disdain) played a role in putting White Nationalism on the map, so to speak. Granted, the media usually describes Alt-Righters as “White Supremacists” (and many of them are), not White Nationalists. But who knows how many people the Alt-Right has driven to SF, AmRen, Counter-Currents, etc.? Is immaturity an effective tactic? I’m no longer so confident that the answer is a resounding “No!”
I will say that a certain website closely associated with the Alt-Right has devolved from mediocrity to absolute trash. If Hood articles didn’t occasionally shown up there, it would be entirely without merit.
“I do wonder, though, if the “Alt-Right” (for which I can’t say I’ve ever felt anything but disdain) played a role in putting White Nationalism on the map”
Pro White activism created Alt-Right. The Alt-Right did not exist as a mass movement before Trump started running. It was Pro White activists who went out to forums and blogs across the world, and proved that “Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White” and White Genocide is occurring. When Whites understood these two important concepts, the Alt-Right appeared out of thin air just in time to campaign for Trump. Alt-Right did none of this important work. Almost none of them do it even now.
By this time next year, the Alt-Right will just be a meme, and the people who post the White Genocide Mantra, will still be doing their work.
I’ve accustomed myself to viewing the Alt Right as yet another embarrassing sect of White Nationalism, along with Hollywood Nazis and the FBI-ridden KKK. It used to be a virtual space for exploring new ideas and challenging people’s assumptions, but now it’s become an all too predictable echo-chamber, obsessed with trolling anyone who dissents from it’s high dogmatic and rigid approach. The problem with the trolling game is someone wins when their opponent rage-quits. When you do that you people who aren’t your enemy that’s actually a loss. But foolish people don’t seem to care, and it makes me question their sincerity. The Alt Right is also not a trustworthy space. I’ve seen numerous examples of people betraying and stabbing their friends in the back because they think it gets them some kind of social gain. This isn’t of course true for everyone who considers himself Alt Right, but it is the state of the general atmosphere, particularly as observed from afar. The Alt Right may not be dead yet, but it’s become cancerous.
They’ve all read too much “48 laws of power” hence their ego trips and illusions of grandeur and remarkable leadership qualities
>The recent wave of disgusting attacks on Tara McCarthy, Lauren Southern
Tara McCarthy is an admitted Jewess, and Lauren Southern is a race mixing mudshark. I don’t know about the former, but Southern has stated numerous times she is not a white nationalist. So, why would any white nationalist defend someone whose both words and actions go against everything white nationalism is? It seems to me you’re either not a white nationalist, or you’re a half assed one that doesn’t really believe in the cause.
Telling the world you have 2% Jewish DNA does not amount to being “an admitted Jewess.”
Explain to me why Lauren must be driven out of the movement but Richard Spencer and Andrew Anglin should not.
I think Tara’s interview videos are great and would hate to see her completely abandon the Alt Right. It seems like she got way more abuse than she deserved. Of course, I also think she should not be calling out the Alt Right to deal with people who troll her. As for Lauren Southern….Greg…I encourage you to take a test I literally just invented. Go watch a video of a blonde girl getting “Blacked” on the internet, and tell me afterward how much Lauren’s past should be forgiven. I guarantee you it will make you want to puke 100x more than the idea of anything Anglin or Spencer ever did.
Um, and what makes you think that 16-year-old Lauren was up to black-on-blonde porn levels of degeneracy? I think this is pretty silly.
Wasn’t she dating this guy like 2 years ago? She was 20. Just sayin, fam.
Dude, that’s really Freudian. You shouldn’t be watching interracial porn for any reason.
It’s possible to see such things by accident. And that’s all one needs to know that a white girl who’s been with a Black is beyond ruined
One doesn’t need to be Freudian to see that this petty aggression towards Lauren Southern (and Tara) does have a rather obvious ring of sexual envy, resentment and revenge. Seemingly an 0ccasion for some dating market losers to drag down what they cannot get (let’s face it: dating market options for altrighties are scarce and tough). I mean, it is no secret that part of Lauren’s success is because she provides quite tasty eye candy (Ann Coulter’s good looks are also a great sugar coating on her sharp intellect and wit)… but she is also clever, witty, entertaining and bold, and she did risk a lot.
It is cruel and stupid to play Scarlet Letter puritans (Hawthorne, Mencken and others showed how much sadism, envy and resentment hides behind the Puritan persecution drive) and hold her teenage sins against her, of which nobody would have known in the first place if it wasn’t for these leaks with malicious intent. It’s really literally a “let him cast the first stone”-situation here, and I don’t want to know how many white nationalists have similar and other skeletons of all kinds in their closets.
Lauren herself said in “Barbarians” how she was messed up as everyone else from her generation and how she needed to wake up from the big civilisational fuck up that surrounds all of us. She has made up for it ever since a thousand fold. A guy like Anglin was also race-mixing, drugging and seemingly far more fucked up than Lauren ever was in his youth. That’s why many millenials can identify and sympathise with him actually. Nearly everbody from this generation (20-35 year olds) had to pull his head out of his ass at one point.
Those who didn’t, but still became WNs or similar “red pillled” specimen end up with the Sinead McCarthy (herself suspected of brownie relationships) syndrome of compulsively hating everybody within the movement who is more successful or popular than they with a passionate intensity.
If there is one thing that should never dominate one’s character, it is resentment – not for nothing Nietzsche’s most despised arch-enemy.
Millenial Woes, as usual, is another sane voice of reason in this cause (and he too has been open about the fuck-ups of his past):
I just don’t understand what it is that any of you are expecting. It makes me wonder if you understand the nature and severity of the problem if you find any of this behavior surprising. We’re way past the point where accusing people of living in their mother’s basements and not being able to get laid is going to shame these guys out of existence. It’s analogous to Old Economy Steve Boomercon types who admonished young people to “quit whining” and “get a jerb” in the worst economy since the 1930s. There aren’t any damn jobs for them to get.
You can get disgusted about it and pat yourself on the back for being socially acclimated or whatever but their ranks are only going to grow because this problem is bad and getting worse. Marriage has been destroyed, women, as ever form harems, and you have a ballooning underclass of sexually and socially invisible men who are now superfluous. You have an army of men who are cut off from their own future and no longer have any incentive to play along. What do you think happens as they age and hope that things will pan out begins to wane while they increasingly begin to understand the nature of the problem? I know it’s inconvenient and everything, but those guys don’t just shuffle off to a field to quietly die somewhere.
We’re talking about something that is really basic to people’s well being, male or female, something which is increasingly out of reach for a growing portion of the male population. Having families or even just normal relations with the opposite sex is central to most people’s lives and shapes their self concept. I’m sorry but nobody believes that hitting the gym and blaming yourself for everything because you’re not “entitled” is going to solve it anymore. As if there is some straight and narrow path to becoming socially acclimated that a mythological mainstream of well adjusted, normal people follow to the picket fence and 2.5 children so we can just disregard anybody who didn’t make it as a whining defective neckbeard who needs to “man up.” Give me a break. Nobody believes that anymore when more than a quarter of your male population fails to have children. That’s not the result of “poor life choices,” it’s a failed culture and society. It’s an unfolding tragedy, a disaster.
You have a female population which obliviously goes on having all the same expectations of the opposite sex that women had 100 years ago while we’ve completely dismantled all the structures and social norms which would have enabled men to meet those expectations. How exactly are those men supposed to regard those women?
We all understand women’s contribution to that problem, I’m assuming. Do women themselves understand it? I can tell you for certain that most of them don’t. I don’t know what the answer is. Maybe if we just rail against MGTOWs enough, it’ll all go away.
The MGTOWs are purposely trying to drive a wedge between awakening White women and the most attractive, charismatic men of this movement. That is colossally stupid, because these are the very men who can influence them in positive ways, i.e. encourage them to marry and have children. This MGTOW behavior is nothing but irrational acting out that will help nothing whatsoever. I’m not sure they even care. It appears they just want to rage and vent.
Look, I was basically trolling with my suggestion to watch Blacked videos before forgiving Southern. Seemed funny in my head at first.
That being said, I hope that the talented female members of our movement continue to put out good content that assists us in spreading our message. I hope that they develop a little thicker skin when the trolls come a knockin’, but I also hope many of the trolls dial it back a bit and grt back to focusing on attacking the kikes, the ultra-feminists, and the rest of the Left.
Reply to commenter “Arthur Frayn”
“Nobody believes that anymore when more than a quarter of your male population fails to have children. That’s not the result of “poor life choices,” it’s a failed culture and society. It’s an unfolding tragedy, a disaster.”
Actually, historically this is not unprecedented behavior for Western Europeans. I don’t know if you have heard of the “Hajnal line” before? The blogger “hbd chick” has extensively written on the subject:
“West of this line, the average age of marriage for women was 23 or more, men 26, spouses were relatively close in age, a substantial number of women married for the first time in their thirties and forties, and 10% to 20% of adults never married. East of the line, the mean age of both sexes at marriage was earlier, spousal age disparity was greater and marriage more nearly universal. Subsequent research has amply confirmed Hajnal’s continental divide, and what has come to be known as the ‘Western European marriage pattern’, although historical demographers have also noted that there are significant variations within the region; to the west of the line, about half of all women aged 15 to 50 years of age were married while the other half were widows or spinsters; to the east of the line, about seventy percent of women in that age bracket were married while the other thirty percent were widows or nuns.” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line#Overview
There is also this:
Men less bothered by the prospect of remaining childless: “Discussions about having kids often focus on women’s desires and concerns. But the survey found that about half of men ages 15 to 44 who don’t have kids express at least some concern about going through life without the experience of being a father. By comparison, almost seven-in-ten childless women say the same.
And while 29% of men who don’t have children say they would not be bothered at all if they didn’t have children, just 19% of childless women say the same.” – http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/19/college-educated-men-take-their-time-becoming-dads/
>Telling the world you have 2% Jewish DNA does not amount to being “an admitted Jewess.”
Actually, yes, it does. She identifies as Jewish. Which is enough. Maybe I have 2% Jewish DNA, but I don’t identify and cry over the 6 gorillion.
Yes, genetically Nuremberg Laws are good. But Tim Wise is a convert. He simply identifies as Jewish and that identity is still enough. You now see how Tara McCarthy is an admitted Jewess, because she identifies as such.
No, she doesn’t. She’s made that clear. You’re either lying or pretending to know more than you do. In either case, you are banned from commenting here further.
No really, you got it all wrong.
Lauren Southern is Alt-Lite and a Gateway to White Nationalism, her liking it or not. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
But then she goes on to build a Cult of Personality around her, with an army of White Knights, and uses it to attack everyone on the Right of herself, closing the “Gate” she was supposed to be opening – all the while “Attention Whoring” and asking for Donations, asking for Donations all the time, while contributing nothing and build a wall.
Others that do this are Paul Joseph Watson, Sargon of Akkad and Jordan Peterson, for example.
About Tara McCarthy, I have nothing negative to say about, and the women in our movement have been good so far (excellent people such as RedIce’s Lana, Lauren Rose and Faith Goldy) – the problem is indeed Lauren and people shouldn’t turn a blind eye to it.
Why was Tara McCarthy attacked? Because she is 1/8 Indian? If so, I think we need to be careful of “purity spiraling” over people’s precise genetic make-up. If they look white, and identify as white, and wish to perpetuate our culture and reinvigorate the race (by finding a white mate), this should be good enough.
Especially with respect to 23&Me, Genographic, etc, the autosomal findings should be taken with several grains of salt, as the science is shaky and the points of comparison among different groups insufficient.
In general, however, Italians & Southeast Europeans will have some Jewish, Levantine, Asia Minor & East African (via Berbers) admixture, and Balts & Northern Slavs will have some East Asian admixture. But if we were to disqualify such groups from “white” status because of such admixture (usually rising to no more than 10%), all that would remain would be Germans, Poles, Brits, Northern French & West Scandinavians. Further, if we disqualify Italians & Greeks as insufficiently White, then we must in good conscience also renounce ownership of the Greco-Roman heritage (notwithstanding dubious arguments that these civilizations were more “Aryan” than “Pelasgian”).
For me, the true basis of White Identity is to be found in the “colonial” dynamic of Medieval Europe, in which a “core area” extending from Southeast England down through Flanders, the Ile de France, the Rhineland, Burgundy, on through Northern Italy down to Rome was the staging ground for the incorporation into the European Idea of various peripheral regions. This process occurred between roughly 800 & 1400, and whichever groups were brought into Europe by this date belong, unquestionably, to Europe, and, yes, it is an identity which has a racial basis. But this foundation of race is not one of racial purity, but simply a genetic preponderance. Race in the service of the Idea of Europe . . . .
To make a long story short, Tara McCarthy is definitely White in my book, and I am a fan of her work.
“One should never waste his time criticizing the traitors, the vile, the weather cocks. Not forgiving them, evidently, but ignoring them and marching onwards. The silence of contempt.” – Dominique Venner
The alt right in 2015 was pushing memes such as “whites deserve a homeland like everyone else” and #WhiteGirlsAreMagic.
Now, in 2017, some segments of the alt right advocate ‘white sharia’ for ‘eceleb thots’ and even in some corners unironic exterminationism.
The best lacked all conviction, while the worst were filled with passionate intensity.
I am still confident we will win, in spite of the mistakes our movement has made.
No matter how much we mess up, day-to-day reality is a far stronger incentive in pushing people to join us.
Nationalism and The Right are not the same thing. This sort of issue will inevitably arise when you have nationalists whose views were shaped by the Cold War Right confronted with other forms of nationalism.
Free market nationalism and socialist nationalism. Socially conservative nationalism and progressive nationalism. Left nationalism and right nationalism. For now, let’s remember that the enemy is globalism. Leaving behind our left/right baggage can be difficult, but if we fail to do so we will never triumph.
Greg, the mudshark Southern is about as alt right, white nationalist, identitarian, whatever, as Ben Shapiro. Where have the alleged contributions made by Southern been observed? What evidence do we have that she has “brought women into the movement” ? Please show me, because ALL of her followers, by all accounts, appear to be lonely male orbiters who were not only already IN “the movement”, but are further to the right than her by several notches to boot. Please also show me what novel and insightful idea she has contributed, because again, by all accounts, her monologues appear to contain nothing else besides the same rehashed talking points everyone ALREADY knows, except said with much less erudition and content. Not only is she merely (((echoing))) what anyone who would click on her video already knows, the fact of her anti-SJW, alt-lite perspective (ala PJW, Shapiro, Peterson) means that she cannot accurately diagnose the problem. Again, where is the demonstrated value in a 22 year old cosplay girl talking about something which SUPERFICIALLY appears congruent with our views, but is so utterly misdirected that it sends it’s adherents on a wild goose chase, resulting in DR3ism (she recently claimed it was leftist to oppose miscegenation)
Allow me to propose a very real reason publications like yours should recognize the harm of the counterfeit right: these young men orbiting attention whores like the mudshark Southern are throwing piles of money (Southern boasts of six figure incomes) at them, money that could and SHOULD be going to people like yourself and the CC team, money that most assuredly would produce valuable content, not funding extravagant vacations during which this “traditionalist” is hooking up with every nog, dick, and harry within reach (if you dispute her revenue is spent frivolously, you must produce evidence of her spending any money on anything that isn’t an excuse to go on vacation in Europe).
Furthermore, consider the perverse dynamics of these young men heaping their hard earned resources upon internet women they are in love with (this is the reality of the situation, anything else is delusional), who will never reciprocate their affection for them, instead of spending those resources on a REAL relationship, with a REAL woman, which will produce WHITE CHILDREN. Every iota of time and money spent on professional camwhores like Southern is time and money that is redirected from efforts that will ACTUALLY confer benefits to the lives of these sexually frustrated young orbiters. We must do everything possible to divest young men from fantasy women (whether it be in the form of pornography or opportunists like unrepentant mudshark Lauren Southern), and redirect them towards more practical occupations.
Finally, I focused on Lauren Southern because I was frankly shocked to see you defend an individual so plainly heinous and corrosive to “the movement” (the fact we are having this debate at all should be evidence of that), but I’m confident these criticisms likewise apply to McCarthy and ANY OTHER twenty-something single independent female YouTuber who don’t need no damn man and hey, if you don’t give me the attention I think I deserve I will leave “the movement” (just goes to show you their real intentions, defending white interests takes a backseat to YouTube popularity and $$$)
Lauren puts out useful talking points to 400K YouTube subscribers. That’s all I need to know.
1. One example of a positive contribution is Lauren’s video about Millennial Woes’ doxing, which brought him a large number of new subscribers and donors, as well as moral support in a difficult time. Another example is the growth in Generation Identity in Europe in part due to coverage by Lauren and Brittany Pettibone.
2. You put the words “brought women into the movement” in quotes and then ask for evidence. Where did I say that? In fact, I didn’t say that. But it stands to reason that some of her 400K subscribers are women.
3. You don’t seem to need any evidence for claims about Southern’s hundreds of thousands of subscribers, to wit “ALL of her followers, by all accounts, appear to be lonely male orbiters who were not only already IN ‘the movement’, but are further to the right than her by several notches to boot.” I’d love to think that Southern’s audience actually consists of 400K people who are further to the right of her, but I see no evidence that our movement is that large. And it never will be if people like you get your way.
4. I think that it is great the Southern is repeating our ideas to 400K people, many of whom would not otherwise hear them. But you think that is a problem because you are introducing the false criteria of originality and erudition. Should newsreaders be judged for originality and erudition? Or should they be judged for how well they popularize a message to a larger audience? Obviously the latter.
5. Either all of Southern’s audience are further to the Right than her or they are being held back from White Nationalism by her Alt Lite talking points. Which is it?
6. I think a lot of these attacks are simply motivated by financial jealousy. But that is the wrong mentality. Instead of being jealous of other people in the movement on the zero sum assumption that a dollar that goes to Lauren is coming out of my pocket, I operate on the assumption that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that Lauren and others who are reaching wider audiences will in the end expand my reach as well, which also helps me sell books and raise money.
7. Lauren can spend her earnings on any frilly, silly, frivolous thing she wants. It is a mistake to allow donors to think that they own a piece of you and can attach strings to their gifts. I have fired donors who have tried to do that.
8. If Lauren Southern is to be reviled and bullycided as a “mudshark” for what could be nothing more than a chaste 16-year-old relationship, I’d like the see the same standards applied to Richard Spencer, Andrew Anglin, and Mike Enoch.
9. Do you seriously think that young men in the movement are foregoing family life to send donations to Lauren Southern? Cigarette and latte money, maybe. Wife and kids money? Sorry, that simply sounds stupid and hysterical. But even if it is true, whose problem is it? Who needs to change? Obviously, it is the men who need to change. You are not going to rid the world of ecelebs and porn. So you are going to have to focus on changing what can be changed, namely the values and behavior of people in our own orbit.
Re: Point 8 – a white female that race mixes with a black male should certainly be judged differently than a white male that race mixes with an Asian or Jewish female. The former is much more egregious than the latter and deserving of more stigma and shame. I don’t disagree with your other points, but Southern must ultimately be shunned for her past behavior. That being said, I was also repulsed by comments directed towards Tara McCarthy and hopes she takes your remarks to heart and stays a white nationalist.
Blacks are yuckier than Jews and Asians, to be sure. But what is past is past. I think we need to have an amnesty for past acts of race mixing and a moratorium on future ones.
a temporary prohibition of an activity.
“an indefinite moratorium on the use of drift nets”
synonyms: embargo, ban, prohibition, suspension, postponement, stay, stoppage, halt, freeze, standstill, respite
“a moratorium on nuclear testing”
a legal authorization to debtors to postpone payment.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH, BY FAR, GREG. Temporarily ban destroying our people? Sorry, but that’s utter nonsense.
I’ll let some of our junior league commentators deal with this.
Lexi’s comment is on point- Southern has not affirmed she is part of the alt right. Therefore, criticize her behavior if you want, but do so with civility and class. Most importantly, don’t make the mistake of holding her accountable past or present to an ideology she doesn’t openly profess.
Haribo, I think this is the key problem with these men who bully her. They think she’s their “3D waifu” or whatever. You should hold those men accountable for having unrealistic expectations of her, being personally offended by her dating past, then reacting by bullying her. Spencer Quinn addresses this point in his article, “On Misogyny in the Alt Right.” She’s not detracting from anyone’s fundraising. She’s doing a great job attracting lots of followers and presenting truth in a way people can digest it. Her “According to Science” series is HILARIOUS.
As to Joseph Curwen’s point, she brings people into white nationalism by introducing counter cultural ideas with humor (also, her journalism with Brittany Pettibone should be recognized.). Most normal people don’t just wander into Millennial Woes’s channel.
Tara McCarthy’s interview with Dr. Johnson is my go-to for explaining white nationalism to female friends. Thank you Tara!
Lastly, “junior league commentator” here… JimB and Sven, telling women they’ll have to take a DNA test and you’ll dump them if they’re 10% high caste Indian is a great way to not reproduce at all… with anyone.
I think we have to pick our priorities at this point. These women deserve congratulations for their success, and gratitude for shifting the Overton window and making these ideas more accessible.
I agree that some degree of leeway should be given toward past indiscretions.
However, Lauren has not apologized or lamented her past behavior. Instead, she doubled down and affirmed that race-mixing is fine so long as the non-White is “based”.
She absolutely deserves to be criticized for this.
@Histrionics – what’s worse, and more telling, in my opinion, is her subsequent boasting on Twitter that this whole affair didn’t put a dent in her subscriber count at all.
I’m beginning to think this movement deserves people like her.
You strike me as a twisted soul. I am glad this has not harmed her viewership. I am glad she had actually said that, and rubbed her attackers’ noses in their own braindumps. I actually think that she is too good for most of the “movement,” which is why this is happening in the first place. If there is any culling, it should be from the bottom.
No, Greg. It seems you have lost all sense for what’s “okay”.
She’s fully aware there’s hordes of young men drooling over her – she wrote about it in that book of hers in no unclear terms – and she’s built her career on that.
Young people need to get their self-respect back, not lust after some imagined “3d waifu” and throw money at her. It won’t end well.
Southern’s critics miss a couple of essential points. First, Southern cannot really come out and denounce going out with a black boy as a teenager without coming out as an explicit White Nationalist, which she clearly does not wish to do. Moreover, the fact that the boy was White-presenting is significant, because it is less of an indictment of Lauren’s taste and judgment. What so few understand is that even girls who really are not particularly attracted to black boys may date one simply to avoid being thought of as racist, even by her own self. I think many men underestimate the shame women feel at the idea of being ‘racist.” Girls internalize this propaganda, from which previous generations of men failed to protect them. They ought to acknowledge this and err on the side of charity in dealing with these matters, particularly when a person has gone out on a limb to help a figure as important as Millenial Woes.
“…JimB and Sven, telling women they’ll have to take a DNA test and you’ll dump them if they’re 10% high caste Indian is a great way to not reproduce at all… with anyone.”
First, I don’t know where in anything I’ve posted here, that you came up with this. I never said that a woman needs to take a DNA test and that I’d dump them if they were 10% anything! Maybe Sven posted something like that?, I dunno, but it wasn’t me.
Secondly, I’m married and already have three (3) children, thank you, so it looks like I didn’t do too bad.
If we applied those standards those three men that you mentioned, then the movement would be in much better shape today. Those people have wasted time and money of this movement.
If you think Spencer, Enoch, and Anglin have been a net negative to the movement, then you are either suffering from brain damage or are a Baby Boomer. Despite that stupid counter-productive tiff between Greg and Spencer, these men (including Greg) have all made White nationalism explode onto the mainstream and resonate in a huge number of young people. They reinvigorated my passion for White Nationalism, which was clouded in a Black Pill phase for a couple years back before the election. Who would you have leading the movement? Sinead McCarthy? Maybe Jeff Schoep? Maybe someone who is just generally less successful at growing our movement?
I agree that they have helped it grow, but I’m deeply dissapointed that they have failed to lead and correct their most corrosive followers. Listening to them you would think no one ever needed correction. Even the left has it’s limits.
Explain to me how this is not helping. Explain to me why we need fewer videos like this.
No one can reasonably argue that we DO need fewer videos than the Southern video you linked. But we definitely need FAR fewer practicing race-mixers within our ranks. None, actually. Does that mean no Lauren Southern? Not necessarily! It just means a Lauren Southern who gets told, constantly, that she needs to STOP HAVING SEX WITH NON-WHITES. Until she either stops or crawls off somewhere. I don’t care how many anti-Muslim videos she makes!!!
On another level: Do you not “get” the game with these Alt-Lite-ers, even though they’re pontificating about “saving the West” from Muslim invasion? Do you truly not understand that these types of people are at best ignoring, at worst purposefully covering up for the (((rudder))) that’s steering our Titanic into iceberg-infested seas?!
Where does the line get drawn? How about MILO? Do we need less of his brand of (((Alt-Right-ism)))… or more of it? Very interested in your response, along with your reason(s) for the response(s).
Disgust towards race-mixing is a social constraint that helps a people maintain homogeneity, not a goal in itself. The world is full of non-whites who understand and act according to a generally understood racial hierarchy, but that doesn’t make those places and cultures good.
If you had to choose between race-mixers who speak the truth, and non race-mixers who repeat the Globo-Homo platitudes, what would you choose? The idea that anyone who puts out content that brings people to a pro-white, race realist, or nationalist position must have always been “pure” in her behavior would limit the number of white nationalists (who aren’t incels) significantly.
I would hazard a guess that a lot of the same people who are fed up with these semi alt-light women are the same ones that would write comments saying Lana Lokteff needed to just go home and have babies (and it turns out she is a mother now anyway!). Criticizing women is not a bad thing. Tearing down feminism and building up patriarchy are good things. Bullying them from a place of resentment just makes these guys look weak.
I haven’t really closely followed this latest Alt Right drama, but it does not strike me as as dangerous as past co-option attempts of and power struggles within the movement, e.g.:
“The most recent gay panic agitation comes from Sinead “Renegade” McCarthy, whose black marks include linking White Advocacy to flat earth and anti-vaccine cranks, slurring people who think there is more to activism than crazy-eyed women passing out flyers…” – https://counter-currents.com/2016/03/gay-panic-on-the-alt-right/
The most dangerous moment for the movement came with the “White Sharia” meme, in my opinion: https://counter-currents.com/2017/06/introducing-white-ramadan/#comment-1386614
“Watch Me Countersignal White Sharia” – https://counter-currents.com/2017/06/watch-me-countersignal-white-sharia/
The movement has really matured and has become more resilient to “crazy/insane/psychopathic people” co-option since then, in my opinion.
I have been reading and watching material by the anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism libertarian Sean Gabb lately, not all of which I agree with, but his latest piece makes some interesting predictions and observations:
” Like a hermit crab dissatisfied with its existing shell, the Puritans will go looking for a new ideology of legitimisation.
What will be their replacement ideology? I used to think it would be radical environmentalism. With its call to guilt and self-denial, and its need for despotic intrusions, this has obvious appeal to any Puritan.
The Puritans could convert to Islam. Some of them appear to be edging in that direction. But Islam has about as much appeal to the rest of us as pristine Calvinism.
My suspicion is that the Puritans will find their new home on the nationalist right. At the moment, I have friends within that set of movements.
The real strategy should be to work towards a set of institutional arrangements that marginalises the Puritans. This brings me to my usual remedy, which is a radical shrinking of the State and an embrace of subsidiarity.” – http://www.seangabb.co.uk/cultural-marxism-one-legitimising-ideologies-come-go-2017-sean-gabb/
I very much agree with this point of Mr. Johnson’s:
“8. Don’t allow yourself to burn out. Even though idealism and self-sacrifice must, in the last instance, be what sustains this movement through the trials, if life were nothing but trials, we would burn out and become useless to the cause. So do everything you can to build personal rewards into your activism. Above all, do not let yourself become isolated. Cherish the good people and do everything you can to avoid the bad ones.”
I think we need to celebrate our victories and the progress we have made over the last 2 years and just take some time to “rest on our laurels” and to “smell the roses”, so to speak.
Humor is also tremendously important, resiliency-building and healing. Most of the jerks and dicks in the movement are literally a “joke”, in my opinion. Make fun of them and find the humor in their spergy and childish behavior.
“Another one, so to speak”
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfB6_Sq82bc
“The good men are a caste; the bad men are a multitude, like particles of dust”
That these attacks (many of which are pathological in nature) originated from a coalition of chan nihilists, theocrats, ironists, vantards and twitterati is highly instructive for discerning WN’s going forward, especially at a time when the Alt-Right is in a state of fracture. The lowest common denominator, which now predominates in the Alt-Right and macerates in an increasingly noxious and vituperative atmosphere , thanks to poor brand management and boundary maintenance , is being exploited and misled by bad faith actors interested in furthering their own personal brand and/or their overriding ideological impetus (invariably some flavour of Abrahamic theocracy). That so-called “traditionalists” would find common cause with nihilists/ironists/cosmopolitans, and are all too eager to participate alongside moral imbeciles in senseless invectives , is quite revealing indeed. That putative white nationalists would join them is nothing but a source of disappointment and frustration.
The Answer, as ever, is unabashed elitism of purpose; seizing the moral,cultural and intellectual high-ground, and placing a far greater emphasis on characterological considerations. On the evidence of this shitshow, too many of our people are struggling even with the fundamentals, such as the friend/enemy distinction. With that in mind, here are a few useful lessons from this mess for the less perceptive:
1. Twitter personalities of dubious ethnic extraction whose brand consists of self-aggrandizement, looking down their noses at White Nationalists and riding the coat-tails of philosophers and literary figures from yesteryear, are not on our side.
2. All-consuming ironism is antithetical to the culture of idealism and sincerity which we wish to promote.
3. It is safe to assume that theocrats will always put their cult ahead of our cause.
4. Dogmatism makes counter-hegemony impossible.
Threatening to bash a girl’s face in because she’s saying things on the internet you dislike is unacceptable under any circumstances.
With that said, we should be wary of females coming into the movement, expecting special treatment, pushing for “gender equality” etc. And Tara did tweet that the Alt-Right isn’t about stopping feminism, which is really absurd. Most of us aren’t in this because we want a racist version of modern society. We want women to be mothers again. This doesn’t mean they can’t work, make YouTube videos, etc., but eschewing issues like gender roles, social degeneracy, etc. and *only* focusing on demographics is clearly out of line. Besides, the connection between feminism and demographics (fertility rates) is so elementary that I’m troubled Tara chose to ignore it.
Regarding Lauren, she expressed no remorse for race-mixing. I’m willing to forgive past indiscretions, but her response amount to “hey guys he’s only half-black and he voted for Trump!” This sends a message to her 400k audience — which, as you have pointed out, likely includes many young White girls — that race-mixing is okay so long as the guy is “based”. This is clearly not in line with our values as Identitarians. Now, does that mean we should tell her to kill herself? No, but it does mean that she should be sharply criticized, as we would criticize anyone else expressing views that are antithetical to the survival of our people, culture, and civilization.
With that said, I do think many of the people attacking Tara, Lauren, etc. do hate actually hate women, which is pathological and unhealthy – I’m guessing they just get off on saying mean things to women on the internet. This is unfortunate, for these types seem to be the most vocal, and their bitter ramblings and attacks have occulted the aforementioned criticisms, which your humble commenter considers to be worth discussing.
Women in the movement should get used to the fact that there are going to be hated by MGTOW guys on the internet. Once this is accepted, these girls have the option of blocking or muting them. Engaging with them while never be constructive. Girls who don’t get this are going to burn out, and there’s nothing we can do about it – other remind them to ignore it. Longing for a world in which everyone – especially those pesky Y-chromosomers – only says nice things to each other is little more than wishful thinking. However, when it comes to interactions in meatspace, higher standards for male behavior should certainly be upheld.
I ignore all attacks on me as (1) an Asian and (2) a female. I support White survival, so what? If I responded to those people attacking me merely for being an Asian female, I would give credence to the idea that being an Asian female matters more than White survival. I simply refuse to fall into that trap. I am smarter than that, and I care sincerely about Whites, because I feel sympathy for the White race and treat them as humans who deserve understanding.
With your point regarding females, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Do not refuse to criticise them simply because they are female. If they cannot deal with criticism, they aren’t fit to fully disagree with liberals anyway. Such people are just lousy followers. You need people with strong hearts who can accept criticism. This whole movement is based on criticism, because that is necessary for saving Whites.
Your point that women should be mothers is excellent, because that is what women are destined and meant to be. It is foolish to deny biological reality. Women who say “we are not just incubators” simply disrespect true female biological nature. Feminism is hatred of female biology stemming from an unhealthy female inferiority complex and female envy of men. Jews have abused these nasty insecurities and tendencies of women. Of course, Jews would prey on women and their fears and weaknesses. To me, it is only “normal” that the Jewish likes of Harvey Weinstein sexually abused shiksas.
China’s birthrate is the lowest for a developing country. This is because the Communists attacked motherhood in their attempt at “population control” (= democide). Nowadays the damage is irreversible. Few Chinese females want to become mothers. They only want one kid at most and they can’t imagine imagine more. Chinese females will complain: “One child is already enough.” It isn’t their fault. The Communists destroyed Chinese motherhood in the most ruthless ways. They specifically targetted women to reduce Chinese fertility: forced sterilisations of women in China (you can read the horrible stories online), forced abortions for pregnant women (the horrible stories are also available online), and the list goes on. It is terrible to be a mother in China. I hope that Chinese women will one day be treated as mothers again and that their role as mothers will be truly respected. I do not think this is possible until Communism ends and the Communist Party of China has fallen. The recent child sexual abuse case and the forced evictions of Beijing migrant workers have provoked the worst censorship in China since the 19th Party Congress and this shows that the people are slowly starting to realise that the Communist Party is a terrible dictatorship where children, women and men are unsafe.
Great comment, Chinese N Maiden. You seem to be a genuine ally (to use a worn-out term, sorry about that) and a very intelligent one at that.
As you know, communism is Jewish-created. Even, at the root, the Chinese brand of it. Yes, they always attack and eventually erode motherhood, the basic core of womanhood. Long before they start on the males of a predominantly homogeneous nation. After that, anything goes. Communism, and more precisely Jewish power, MUST be destroyed root and branch, everywhere it’s found if this planet hopes to avoid becoming a burned-out, lifeless cinder spinning forever in the void.
For what it’s worth: THANK YOU for being an ally to our cause. You, and others like you, ARE very valuable indeed. Not to mention just good people.
Thank you for replying. I can only say: “Of course I support Whites.” For me it is just a matter of principle. I have a conscience. I believe it is the human thing to do and that advocating White survival is right thing for humanity. Losing Whites would significantly alter the “human ecosystem” and therefore the fate of humanity. I believe we are better off with Whites than without them. This firm conviction is the result of my observation that Whites are simply human beings who have a good nature. There are always a few rotten apples in any people, but Whites, by and large, are naturally good human beings. They are born good and human, and so they are important for humanity. If you destroy any species in nature, the entire ecosystem changes. This will also happen to the world if Whites disappear. I find the prospect of a world without Whites quite frightening, and so we should really do something.
You stated here that it is absurd to say that stopping feminism should not be a priority of the Alt-Right, yet I think that was the consensus in our movement as recently as a year or two ago. This transformation of the Alt-Right has been very rapid, and in my opinion very unfortunate. It focuses on symptoms rather than causes.
First of all, feminism has not really taken hold in Eastern and Southern Europe, yet their birth rates are even worse than in the notoriously feminist societies of Northwest Europe.
I too believe feminism is a deadly poison, but the problem goes deeper. The problem is self-indulgent individualism, the priority of ease and comfort as well as personal freedom. Feminism is but the particularly female variant of this.
The antidote, in either case, is White racial pride, with a sense of shared destiny and unlimited potential for greatness. Once you have racial pride, most women will conclude that motherhood (the continuation of our people) is their most important calling, or at the very least, a duty they cannot neglect. There is no need whatsoever to obsess over this issue.
As of right now, young women are being told that our race is a scourge. Of course they are going to fall into nihilism and short-sighted self-indulgence. What else would you expect? Fix that, the rest will follow.
We have lost our way as a movement.
What you say is wrong on two counts. Firstly, the fact is that feminism, along with most forms of leftism/cultural marxism, are indeed present in Poland and other Eastern European countries, particularly among the young and people in the big cities, even if not yet to the extent of Western countries. I’m sad to say that the view that many WNs in the West have on Eastern Europe is a bit too romantic, a “grass is greener on the other side of the fence” sort of thing. Truth is Poland is headed in the same direction, only slower. The divorce laws are already almost as bad as in the West.
Secondly, it’s not quite true that the birth rates in Eastern Europe are as low or lower than in the West. Yes, many Western countries have higher overall birthrates than Poland, but this is almost entirely due to non-White immigration. I can speak from personal experience that in Western countries like Canada, you’re far more likely in the cities/suburbs to come across a non-White of any given age group than a White child. In Poland, even if things aren’t perfect as I’ve said, you can still see plenty of young White families with children anywhere you go, so I’d say that the birthrate for Whites here is still a lot higher.
As to the question of whether WNs should be concerned with feminism, I too used to feel the way you do, that we should just worry about racial pride and not talk about feminism, but that was before I read F. Roger Devlin’s Sexual Utopia in Power, which hit home just what a socially destructive ideology feminism is, and what irrational and anticivilizational sentiments underlie it. Also I witnessed first hand the effects of anti-male divorce laws and cucking to feminism on a relative. Make no mistake, feminism, beyond individualism generally, is a corrosive force that must be crushed. Read Devlin’s works on the topic and it will make things a lot clearer.
IMHO the author of this article is soaked in feminism.
I suggest him to get Red Pilled about women nature ASAP.
It looks like he operates in an alternative universe, these women have been called out because of their hypocrisy (whoring around as proper degenerate feminists) and the admission of coal burning (an abomination).
It is basic to cleanse our lines of scammers and liers before to proceed further.
By the way, it is the author who is creating division among men. Why he despises KKK and nazis, if is precisely this people who are the most true believers of the White Ethno-State? Perhaps he is opposing this idea.
F Roger Devlin used to write for his site, you goof. But I have a slight idea you don’t know who that is.
To my mind the question for whether or not Southern should be defended too vigorously is this. Is miscegenation is among the most important issues for the preservation of the white race? I’m not sure. While it’s highly counter-productive, and Southern clearly not a great role model, most white people are not breeding with people of other races. There’s geographic isolation and lack of attractive partners. Demographic/economic/cultural decline is not going to be dependent on the occasional lost white woman dating outside her race, as visceral as many people find this issue.
Miscegenation is definitely a problem given that our population as a whole is shrinking. It was less of an issue when the core white population was exploding after the industrial revolution.
“Is miscegenation is among the most important issues for the preservation of the white race? I’m not sure.”
Not meaning to attack you, Irishman, or even Lauren for that matter… but race-mixing IS DEFINITELY among the most important issues facing our folk. No matter our population size. That’s not just an opinion, but a fact.
That being said, people like Southern can and should be “brought to the carpet” for it. Period. Not for something she might have done before she became racially-aware, back when she was still an oblivious citizen of ZOG’s Weimerica, but NOW that she’s supposedly aware of the genocide being waged against us as White people — and is still having sexual relations with a “p.o.c.”. That particular thing simply must be condemned, unflinchingly and certainly, if we are to EVER drain the swamp in our own yard… and survive as White people.
I once dated a black girl in Jr High. Never had sex with her, just dated her for a few months. But, now that I’m an adult and “red-pilled” about our dire situation (and it IS very dire, not hopeless but dire), there’s no way in hell that I could, with the awareness I have now, be with a woman who isn’t of my own racial stock. My conscience would eat me alive and drive me insane. So that begs two questions: if Southern is truly red-pilled, does she even have a conscience about what she’s currently doing? Or is she truly red-pilled? I think most of us know that she isn’t to begin with, if you’ve ever listened to her. She’s just this side of someone like Sargon of Akkad. I definitely won’t be sticking up for her, ever, even if I don’t approve of violently bashing her head in.
Again: RACE-MIXING IS A CRUCIAL NO-NO. It must be condemned vehemently. Especially if the people engaged in it claim to be “red-pilled”. Those cancers must be shunned.
Not trying to come off as a White Knight or a “muh dick” dindu, but Tara and the rest of these gals are drop-dead gorgeous. Plus they’re obviously well-heeled and nice people, no matter what their detractors say. It’s actually pretty shocking to read something so sickening as that “If I had my way” post against Tara, talking about bashing her face in. Whether the author of that particular post considers himself/herself/itself a WN or not, that’s one sociopath-ic piece of crap. Way beyond simple MGTOW, which is itself a cancer to this movement, these types are psychos. Not to mention weak cowards and/or jealousy-consumed hags.
As far as the author’s thoughts about ‘Nazis’ (LARPers, really) and other classically “racist” groups, I understand the dilemma… and only fractionally agree with his overall feelings on the matter. I was once a swastika-loving, Hitler-worshipping “neo-Nazi” myself, back when I was first awakened (red-pilled). I think many go through that stage, too, just like I did. But, for me, even though I still admire the memory of the Führer and believe in the basic principles of his now-forbidden National Socialism… I grew out of the LARPing phase. I realized that trying to resurrect and polish off those “tarnished symbols” is a fool’s errand, not to mention counter-productive. But then, not everyone feels that way about it. And for some, hard-core neo-Nazism is NOT just a phase… nor a dress-up game. There are some fine brothers & sisters who are genuine neo-Nazis, Knights, etc. To just discount these folk, to crap on them in our posts and articles and other media is ALSO counter-productive. Not to mention, in the immortal words of Doyle Hargraves (Dwight Yoakam, from Sling Blade), plain “asshole-ish”. At the next gathering, just tell em to dress better and leave their symbols at home… or not to show up if they refuse. Us enforcing a bit of dress-code and conduct-code doesn’t have to be the same thing as a “__ Need Not Apply” announcement.
Overall, good article, good advice. White Nationalism it is for me, too, as opposed to “Alt-Right”-ism. And if I myself ever encounter some rabid psycho on the ‘Web or IRL threatening to “smash in” one of our womenfolks’ face, I’ll let them know real quick what pieces of cowardly dung they are and/or give em a taste of their own medicine for real. That’s not White Knighting, that’s just keeping it real, fam. You punch on a chick who didn’t punch you first, especially one of ours, and I’ma cave that head in fer ya.
Matt Forney’s dumping on Tara McCarthy was the last straw; I’m done with him. McCarthy comes off as soft spoken, pleasant, and, most importantly, on our side! Why expend energy bashing her that could be better spent on the left and cuckservatives. But then again, I’m just a thirsty beta-orbiter who can’t dress as well as Davis Aurini.
I’m glad that Greg has added his voice to this discussion.
Did you know that Forney’s income now is largely derived from writing term papers for Asians so they can cheat their way to degrees in American universities? This twitchy, cowardly dollop of lard is literally making a living by helping promote white dispossession and the debasement of white standards.
Oh, wow! He seems to have this knack for getting into drama with people (TRS guys, Richard Spencer, Ann Sterzinger.) One minute someone’s his best friend, the next he’s whining about how they’re the epitome of evil. It’s a shame because he used to be a good writer.
Black Pigeon Speaks videos have a lot to do with these absurd reactions towards Southern and Mccarthy. I think a lot of these people are influenced by content like his. Not trying to lay the blame specifically there, but content like his can easily foster resentment towards women. This whole situation illustrates the rift between white men and white women currently. These men are acting like they were going to marry Lauren Southern and her behavior is a betrayal to them personally. The whole attack on both Southern and McCarthy stinks of personal grievances rather than a genuine desire to make things better.
Burn the coal… pay the toll.
There is no other way around.
Tell me then, what pushes white woman to other races more? an e-celeb with a previous interacial relationship or the hundreds of white men threatening to destroy a white girl’s face till it is unrecognizable? what do you think the average white women is going to think? I am brimming with confidence that they will emphatically choose the angry white guy threatening violence because a woman expressed distaste at being trolled. Your methods do not work.
Boomer bashing is worse than the criticism of certain females (though I am not defending that ghastly threat to break Tara’s jaw). Imagine – an entire generation being wrong and worthless just because they were born at a certain time. How stupid.
So I put up with the trolls and racial-purity martinets saying “don’t punch rightward” and this is how my leniency is repaid?
They need a direction for their energies that is not destructive. They want to go off about mudsharking? Surely there’s some random white Antifa girl hugging a black boyfriend on Twitter that they can torment instead. Goad the Marxists into a greater frenzy so that they look all the more foolish to the uninitiated. Attacking obvious degenerates makes us look better whereas attacking our own makes us look stupid. To the Clayton Elmy’s of the movement I say: if you’re not attacking the left, you’re attacking the wrong people.
You are a star Greg, and the Hope of the movement.
While I’m iffy about defending Lauren Southern, I can’t imagine why Tara McCarthy is being attacked. What is the charge exactly? That she had some small percent of non-European DNA in her 23andMe? I’d be very interested to see the breakdowns of the people criticizing her.
I have read that the results from “23 and me” are not reliable at all. FWIW. I wouldn’t go by that at all.
The crux of this problem is anti-feminism vs. actual misogyny, and how millennial men alienated from the opposite sex because of feminism have grown to confuse the two.
I’m as anti-feminist as they come. I believe women should not have property or voting rights, and should be viewed as under the care of their father until they are given to the care of their husband at marriage. I even have deep reservations about women talking politics in any compactly, as the medium is the message, even if there is some advantage to girls getting talking points out there because chicks get clicks.
But the animus of these latest attacks is clearly plain misogyny. I don’t mean “misogyny” the way feminists mean it (i.e. anything that isn’t gender egalitarianism), I mean these people literally hate white women and want to see them forced into rape slavery as an expression of petty vengeance.
There are two fundamental problems with this: 1.) in a way, this kind of hatred of women is feminist and anti-biological because it sees women as high agency and is basically just wondering why women don’t act rationally like men 2.) this is such a cringe look. How sad is it to care so passionately about an alt-lite figure like Southern having a black boyfriend as a teenager? It’s blatantly obvious reverse-orbiting.
I get that I’m lucky here. I married a lovely Canadian girl very young by providential circumstances. Had I not met her and found myself alone in my mid-20s, I’m sure I would be prone to woman-hatred as an expression of sexual angst because good white women are hard to find. But at a certain point, men have to be told to behave, too. I find this level of pettiness and revenge-fantasy as distinctively un-masculine.
Once this ideal of a white ethno state is achieved and women’s voting rights have been removed, women in Islamic countries where these rights are gatanteed will be laughing all the way to the mosque.
One cannot take an outdated ideology and impose it on modern society. We have to influence and persuade women in such a way that they will perform their duty willingly and with gratitude.
Is our movement in need of some mysticitism – perhaps in form of a true, inspirational leader? Sadly, a damaged society produces damaged individuals. Misogynistic attitudes do us no favours. We must rally our strengths, rather than give our enemies an excuse to undermine and weaken our resolve.
well put. I am always confused when men who believe women are inferior to men then go on to get mad when women are not capable of operating on the same level as men. Roosh made a video recently that really had me facepalming.
Great piece, Greg.
This is all insane. The Alt-Right is filled with garbage people from top to bottom. Not a day goes by in which I do not have one of those “I wish I was not a part of this shit” conversations with myself but I always eventually arrive at the conclusion you mention above. It is hard enough living in this twisted world as it is but when you see examples every day of people who are supposed to be your allies in this profoundly important fight revealing themselves to be absolutely vile, egomaniacal, sociopathic trash it is very, very depressing.
Thank you very much for writing this. I needed to read it and I am sure many others did too.
A number of points about this:
1. The quote “If the cause of White Nationalism is so good, why are the people so bad?” comes from Harold Covington, he calls it “The White Nationalist Paradox” or something like that.
2. About Southern: she is not a WN, she has expressed positions against both race realism and the JQ, and she has been (and still is?) a race-mixer; so a) I don’t see how a person who is explicitly speaking AGAINST our Cause can bring people INTO our Cause and b) I don’t see any reason to WN’s to defend her against the attacks. She simply is not one of us.
3. About Tara: she used to be a leftist, she did antinatalist videos and she (allegedly) has a past as bisexual. Even if the latter isn’t true, the first two disqualify her to speak about our Cause. If she sympathize with it fine, do it in private and fight for the Cause marrying some man willing to ignore her past and having children with her, but she lacks moral authority to be a ‘face for the Movement’.
A couple of general points:
All race-mixing (both in men and women, past and present) should not be allowed. Period. End of Story. Race-mixers simply don’t have the moral authority to talk about securing the existence of our people and a future for white children.
Women can contribute to the Movement not by making jewtube videos and asking money for them, but with propaganda of the deed: marrying and having scores of white children.
Absurd. Purity spiraling dead ender foolishness: https://youtu.be/LEpRNwACHvA
Any faithful ethno-nationalist and identitarian would love our women. I think that any so-called man that doesn’t love them has a personal problem, and it should be identified as that. The cause of the ethno-nationalist movement is just and needed. All people involved in developing our platform for a future for our posterity are great, and should be appreciated.
Let us rejoice in our family bond, and continue to prosper our younger generation. Many young people are able to see the beautiful thoughts of our lovely women and fine men, and this gives them some hope in this awful world that the demonic elite have formed. We are the only hope for a future. Thanks to Tara McCarthy and all the patriotic women, we have something to live for. https://sites.google.com/site/hesedken/emotions/sympathetic_joy.html
Well said Greg. Thanks for writing this. This latest debacle of juvenile poison is an intolerable embarrassment to all of us on the Right.
Sure, I would like to believe, as MW does, that it was some external hostile force behind this campaign, but sadly I don’t. It’s just reeks of bitter, hateful, resentful weak teenage-minded types stuck behind their anonymous chan persona who aren’t mature enough to have a proper relationship with a woman anyway. If the Right didn’t exist to provide a home for their angst and personality deficiencies, they’d be engaging in vitriolic deranged trolling under another theme.
I’m not well-versed on the history of feminism, so I can’t speak with any authority here, but it seems that while we should be rejecting extremist forms of contemporary feminism manifesting as anti-white male gibs-fests and man-bashing/‘unprivileging’ and so on, trying to re-establish womens’ roles exclusively as an obedient baby machine under a kind of White Sharia is just frigging doomed as an idea.
And these people complaining about women in the movement, do they really see these AR women as more of a threat than negroes, Muslims and other groups ? Really ? Where’s their sense of priority ? It’s just pathetic.
Tara McCarthy has herself said that she is 1/8 Indian and 1/17 Jewish. Together that is 18,75% non-European. See her video on You Tube : Deleted by Tara McCarthy : “What’s it like being a mixed race ethno-nationalist?” mirror (1.04 – 1.17)
I will pass no judgment on her racial make-up. She is handsome and intelligent. Her videos are of high quality. She should continue.
Lauren “Southern”‘s real name is Simonsen and that is definitely a Jewish name. She has also tweeted about her grandparents who had to flee from the Nazis.
See You Tube video : Exposed : Lauren Southern is (((Lauren Simonsen))).
I have not seen her videos, so I can’t judge them. If she serves as a stepping stone then she is acceptable. If she serves as a gate keeper, she is not.
Simonsen is a Danish name.
There are three components of identity.
1. Does the person see themselves as being part of Group X?
2. Do other people in Group X see that person as belonging to their group?
3. Do people outside of Group X see that person as being part of Group X?
If someone meets all these conditions, it’s really irrelevant if they have 15% non-white.
Jews are not white because while they arguably meet #2 and #3 most of the time, they don’t meet #1 (they do not see themselves as white).
Whenever Enoch or Spencer speak somewhere, they inevitably get a gotcha question from someone asking “Am I white enough?”
That person might be passably white, maybe even have white DNA but they clearly do not see themselves as white if they are asking that question.
See, no one looks at Tara McCarthy as anything other than a white person. She may see herself as “white with an asterisk mark” but she certainly does not view herself as non-white.
Non-whites don’t see Tara McCarthy one of their own and do not consider her any less “the enemy” because she has 15% or whatever non-white DNA. They would hang her right along side the 100% Bavarian phenotypes if they could. She would not be given a pass because of her Indian great grandmother.
She’s fighting for her own survival as much as she’s fighting for ours.
When you are talking about race, you are talking about biological reality and that reality is objective. If you accept subjective standards for race you enter a kind of Dolezal territory : you are what you “feel” you are. That folly may be an accepted part of Cultural Marxism, it cannot be part of WN. Perhaps we should also strive for the formation of a special state for near-Whites. That would solve the dilemma.
Yes and no. Because if you really believe that racial identity is simply a matter of genes, then Richard Spencer is not white because of a bit of African ancestry, which is obviously absurd. People who have a mixture of genes have a choice as to which ones they will identify. But it would be absurd if Richard Spencer were to identify as a black man. Perhaps you would want him to identify as non-white. But that simply makes no sense to most people. It is even less sensible when you are talking about non-European Caucasians. There are plenty of canonically European nations that have admixtures of NEC. Greeks are European and Turks are not, but a random Greek may be less genetically European than a random Turk. With liminal cases like that, the question is really a question of self-identification.
I’m sure this has been said already in this thread, long as the Midgard serpent, but a simple test for how someone should align politically is “what would someone think you are if they just met you in the street?” What would someone categorize you as if they interviewed you for a job? This is how you should align yourself politically. Invasive genealogical queries or genetic tests can be performed at the personal level, as when selecting spouses.
The concept racial purity has a fascinating history in pre 1900 societies. Amy chua’s absorbing book World on Fire has lots of anecdotes. Supposedly wealthy European planters in South America had preferred their daughters marry a poor boy right off the boat from spain than a local wealthy planter bc they could be sure the person just from Europe was pure of blood! There was a fixation on limpieza de sangre in spain after 1492, as Europeans strove to insulate themselves from the new Christians, I.e. converted moors.
In support of Greg’s position, however, I would point to the Haitian revolution. In a recent piece somewhere, maybe here, it was theorized that the course of events was determined by the split between the grand Blancs(Europeans born in Europe), the petit blancs(Europeans ostensibly pure of blood but born in the colonies), and the colored persons of mixed blood. The fault lines created by quibbles of purity resulted in all being massacred by the blacks. Of course, this interpretation may have been created to support the party line of counter currents…
The Australian Aboriginal tribes/nations have clear rules about who qualifies as ‘one of them’. Of course, in their case they have to do this to limit access to the economic privileges (what I believe Americans call gibs) provided to Aboriginal people by the Commonwealth.
The rules of identity are;
. A person must have some Aboriginal ancestry. Any amount will do.
. The person must identify as Aboriginal.
. The person must be accepted by a recognised Aboriginal tribe/nation as one of their number.
The first point is weak but for Aboriginal people understandable given the degree of racial mixing that has occurred since 1788.
The fact that Australia’s indigenous people have defined themselves genetically and culturally seems to have been overlooked by the shrill globalists who’d howl down anyone suggesting that white Australians might do the same.
Overlooking this fact is not easy, however, since it’s clearly stated on Australian government websites:
If RAHOWA ever broke out, you’d want everyone you could get and I doubt any recruits would be turned out because of their 10% Native American.
And if an ethnostate came about as a result of RAHOWA, you could decide edge cases based on who participated in the struggle. Those who fought on the white side get in and those who didn’t stay in mud land.
“Scandinavian” jews almost never have Sen/son names. Jews in Denmark and Norway usually have Baltic or Polish surnames. Old testament names have ever since the christening been largely popular over here, especially in the country side. I’m Norwegian and i’ve never met an Abrahamsen, Jakobsen, Eliasen or Rubensen who wasn’t a tall, blonde, blue eyed aryan Think of Isak Sellanrå from Knut Hamsun’s Growth of the Soil, the archetypical Norwegian übermensch.
@Franklin. Prior to a couple of days ago I had not heard of Tara and not seen her photo or the video. But if I had seen her on the street I would say that this is a woman with some South Asian blood and not what I personally would consider European white. Maybe Tara is trying to “pass” at the same time as admitting she is not quite white. If so, this is a mighty odd turn of events. Indeed, I think we are going to see more of this. I’m not sure how to interpret her actions.
If, not knowing her ancestry, I had to guess Tara McCarthy’s ethnicity I would say “eastern Mediterranean”, say from Israel, Lebanon, Syria or Turkey. If such people are unmixed with racial sub-strata (Neanderthal, Negroid or Australoid) then they are pure Caucasian, albeit not of the European kind. Such people in small numbers are acceptable for me. If they are of not unmixed ancestry, then they are still acceptable if the mixture is not too great and if such people have special merit to our cause. To Tara McCarthy I would gladly grant such exceptional status. But such exceptions should remain rare.
All major races are mixed with genes of other races, but in quantities so small as to render them not perceptible. 100% purity is a myth, but 99% purity is an attainable ideal. Non-perceptible admixtures are acceptable (this answers also the question to Greg Johnson about Richard Spencer’s acceptability).
Probably the single best defence of Catholicism I’ve ever read. Great work. Not Catholic myself, but you’ve made a strong argument for why Catholics are well prepared for white nationalism.
Nice pen-name too, by the way.
Tara has admitted she had a Jewish great- grandmother who married an Indian. She is not White and the idea that her race-mixing with Whites will ‘re-invigorate’ the race is preposterous. She sets as bad an example as any other race-mixer and is the Alt-Right’s very own Rachel Dolezal. That does not excuse threats of violence, but to call for her acceptance is to call for miscegenation to be welcomed, let alone the feminism that she also encourages.
1. Jews and most Indians are non-European Caucasians. With those sorts of admixtures, I told Tara that she’s basically as white as she wants to be. Meaning that it is a question of what part of her heritage she identifies with. She identifies with White people and expresses that in her work. Richard Spencer married a woman who is part Georgian. Does that make him a race-mixer?
2. Non-European Caucasians are closer to us than, say, Asians, Amerindians, and Blacks. There are many people who identify as white with marginal admixtures from other races, including races more foreign than non-European Caucasians. This is why I have a pragmatic attitude about past miscegenation. From the point of view of a political movement, the best policy to cut off whiter-than-thou sperging is simply to have an amnesty for past race mixing and a moratorium on future race mixing.
3. Racial purism should be left to individuals and families in the ethnostate. If you don’t want Tara’s DNA in your bloodline, then don’t marry her. She’s taken anyway.
1. So if Obama said he identified with his White portion, it would be fine for him to interbreed with Whites? Whether someone is White or not is a biological fact, race is not a social construct, you cannot say ‘I was brought up White so I am White’. Tara is a 5th non-White. Any adulteration is adulteration and it will always be there in her descendants, or DNA testing would be obsolete and it would not be able to tell who someone’s ancestors were.
Georgia cannot be compared to India, they came up with the idea of sanitation for themselves in Georgia and as far as I am aware, they also have White people there, not various mixtures of Dravidian. If Spencer married someone with Non-White ancestry the same applies to him, but being of Georgian ancestry is not sufficient to prove that.
2. Past miscegenation will always be there and marginal admixture is even worse than obvious adulteration, as it makes it far easier for the adulteration to pass into the White portion that is left of the nation. The only policy to have if you want to preserve the White race is to insist that White means White and non-Whites breed only with non-Whites. Otherwise we will just go the same way as India, Egypt, Persia etc who all will have thought they could somehow breed the purity back in.
3. This is not something that can be left to individuals if you want to put a stop to the gradual darkening of the entire race. I have yet to meet someone with slight adulteration who was not selfishly looking for a White partner, or looking to marry their children off to Whites in the hope that the next generation would be that little bit lighter only also that little bit more dangerous to the rest of us who do not have any adulteration.
If Tara wants to advocate for Whites, then destroying the purity of her future White partner’s children is a funny way to go about it, especially when every single ancestor of his preserved it for him.
This is not meant to be an attack on anyone, just pointing something very important out that cannot be ignored. Our culture comes from our biology, not the other way around. This isnt purity spiralling or sperging, this is the biology that makes us White, if that goes, then there is no chance of bringing us back.
You are welcome to try to build a racially pure movement if you want.
Think through what that would require and get back to me.
I think that it will always remain marginal and fractious, splitting over endless quibbles about subracial types.
In the meantime, our race’s programmed march to extinction will continue.
I suppress all forms of purer-than-thou and whiter-than-thou spiraling, and I also reject the idea that people have to have always been White Nationalists, because you can’t build a movement with mass appeal that will have a chance of saving our race if you allow Jews and Leftists to go around and say to every sympathizer, “You know, these people will be calling for your extermination if they find some sort of surprise in your genetic profile, or evidence on your Facebook page that you took an Asian chick to the prom.”
Enjoy your smug sense of superiority and “purity.” I am sure it will console you while the world burns.
If anyone needs to be culled from the movement, it is people like you.
You have just avoided every point that I have made with your reply Greg.
A racially pure movement is already what I am in, I am a White Nationalist and I seek to preserve what is left of the White race. That means having no tolerance at all for miscegenation. An ethno-state means a state composed of one ethnicity, not civic nationalism, which is nationalism based on ‘sharing ideology but not biology’, which is what you appear to be supporting. White is synonymous with purity, this is not ‘spiralling’ these are facts that everyone used to be well aware of when getting involved.
I dont believe there is any need for extermination, and I do not care what people did before they realised the truth. We are not talking about White people race-mixing in the past, but mixed-people looking for Whites in our movement to partner with right now. I am just making the point that someone who is the product of miscegenation is not White and therefore not a candidate for White Nationalism or a White ethno-state. They could be guests maybe, but certainly not citizens or partners with Whites.
This isnt about superiority either, that is a leftist response. This is about preserving what we have left and I am certainly not smug about the many damaged people out there who are like that through no fault of their own. That does not mean we should give them a free pass to destroy what’s left of it though to assuage ours and their feelings..
Integrity is a valued trait, if people make exceptions for non-Whites for short-term gains such as numbers, they sacrifice their integrity and lose the morality of what they are doing.
Or you have missed every point in my reply.
If I thought that your approach would amount to anything, I would already have accepted it.
Good luck though.
Here’s my problem with the whole purity thing.
The longer someone’s family has been on North America, the more chance there is that you have some non-white in you. When the West was being built, there were pioneer towns with 50 white man from every 1 white woman. So yeah, some of them end ed up taking on-white wives.
My ancestor, the great Jean LeBlanc, immigrated to Louisiana Territory in 1802 where there was a shortage of white women. As a result, I have a dash of non-white.
So a policy of “100% pure or gtfo” puts the whites who built America at a disadvantage to the ones who came later.
Are Americans white then?
Thankyou Greg, I look forward to your next podcasts and I will say I do enjoy them, but I do feel you are trying to defend the indefensible here.
Sven, suppose you had never seen nor heard of Tara McCarthy in your life. You wouldn’t know her from Eve. Walking in the park one day, you see her holding hands with a black man. Does it sting? If you feel betrayed, she’s White.