This is the transcript by V.S. of my interview on Dennis Fetcho’s Inside the Eye back when he was on the Oracle Broadcasting Network. I removed transitions into and out of breaks, as well as chit chat on such topics as the weather. I want to thank Dennis for having me on and V.S. for his transcription.
Dennis Fetcho: Welcome back! It’s the Fetch, and this is Inside the Eye Live right here on the Oracle Broadcasting Network. Our guest today is Greg Johnson, Editor-in-Chief of Counter-Currents Publishing found at counter-currents.com, and he is also the editor of the journal North American New Right and the author of Confessions of a Reluctant Hater. Welcome back!
Greg Johnson: Hey, thanks for having me on, Dennis.
DF: Yeah, so, we were just going into the break there and just sort of tie up any loose ends you had there if you don’t mind.
GJ: Well, I was talking about basically white guilt, white self-hatred. Whites today are just bombarded with the idea that we have to be guilty for every crime and misdemeanor and bit of bad taste from other white people throughout history. Yet, at the same time, we’re told that we’re not entitled to take any pride in anything other white people have done, which is a completely self-contradictory notion if you think about it. If we should feel guilt for the bad things white people have done, shouldn’t we feel pride for the great things that white people have done? And if we can start balancing the books and looking at causes for pride in our people as opposed to causes for guilt or shame . . .
I think shame is the best word. I don’t feel guilt for things that other people do, because I didn’t do them myself, but if somebody does something bad in my name or if somebody does something bad and they look like me and talk like me I do feel ashamed of them. And the closer they are to me the more shame I feel. I feel shame if my relatives do stupid things, for instance, and that includes my extended family, my racial family. So, I do feel ashamed when white people do bad things, but I feel a great deal of pride in the achievements of our people and I think that if you do the books, so to speak, on balance we have a lot to be proud of as a people. We should try to maintain who we are. We’ve given a lot to the world, and we need to make sure that we are in a position to give more to the world in the future.
In the present circumstances, though, white people are being bombarded with this white guilt, not a sense of pride. They go around with this nihilistic, hang-dog kind of attitude, and I think a lot of self-destructive behaviors and things like that can be attributed to this kind of bombarding of white kids and it starts very young. It’s child abuse when you get right down to it.
DF: When you’re sending children, Greg, at 6 years old to Holocaust museums of tolerance with the explicit point of trying to tell people how bad white people are in a very indirect way, but you’re actually doing it, yeah, that’s pretty child abusive to me.
GJ: That is definite child abuse, and that should be stopped. Why aren’t parents raising holy hell about this? Because they themselves are intimidated, and if they could overcome this intimidation, this unwillingness to take their own side in ethnic conflicts, and that’s what’s going on here, it’s an ethnic conflict between Jews and whites . . . Even countries that fought the Germans and ended the Holocaust, ended the Second World War . . . Jews believe that we are more likely to be an aggressor people.
DF: It’s projection, Greg. Come on. They’re projecting their culture onto whites and everybody else and that really is the issue.
[. . .]
DF: You know, your website is doing great and so are your articles. You are a prolific writer! How many articles have you written?
GJ: I’ve lost count. I’ve written hundreds of articles and reviews just under my own name, and then I write under a couple pen names, too.
DF: And then I see that you’re getting some of these translated into German.
GJ: Oh yeah, a lot of our articles from the website are being translated into languages like French, German, Portuguese, we have a large Portuguese readership, Czech, Ukrainian, Russian, Finnish, Swedish. It’s really an international thing, and it’s kind of ironic that we’re really focused on building a movement in North America, but because we are translating a lot of material from French and German into English, we find that people all over the world can read that, because English is the second language all over the world. So, people who can’t read French are reading Alain de Benoist and Guillaume Faye in English on our website and then they’ll translate those English translations into Czech or Portuguese or their own native tongues. So, it’s really produced good effects for the European New Right, too. A lot more people are now having access to their writings as well.
DF: Interesting. Now, I’m not a nationalist, [. . .] like you are, but I do believe that we must preserve the ethnic integrity of what is the white culture, and the reason why I say that is because if Jews are so interested in destroying it then there must be so much good value in it, because otherwise, being a culture of destruction, they would not try to destroy it. And we see them trying to destroy it really throughout the world whether it’s England, America, Canada, Australia, Germany. It’s not English, but you know what I mean; it’s white.
Now, when you go back to the Holocaust idea, which I don’t believe it even happened, especially as it has been advertised . . . I saw this from Thomas Dolphin, I think he’s someone who you’ve associated with in the past, he wrote, and it’s a very apropos thing: “in the period of just 6 years from 1933 to 1939 and amidst a global depression Germany rose from a ruined bankrupt nation to the strongest on Earth. The Holocaust, a real event, is a nationalist success story: reign in Jewish-controlled banks and capitalist enterprises, restore national integrity to the media, expel Jews from the seat of governmental power and your nation will flourish. What better lesson could be learned from revisionism?”
GJ: Well, I think that all of that is true. What I disagree about that is calling that the Holocaust. Most people who accept the conventional Holocaust narrative believe that the Holocaust started somewhere around 1942, and so the period of 1933 to 1939, basically between when Hitler took power and when the British started the Second World War, there’s no question that that is a period of great and in ways miraculous economic and cultural revival. And yes, it had to do with, in part, breaking Jewish power over the German economy, the German press, German culture, and really German destiny. The Germans were very successful in that, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned about how they did that that can be applied to this day.
Ellen Brown’s book, Web of Debt, has some really interesting information on what Hitler did to produce his economic miracle, how very simple it was, how it can be replicated in countries like Greece today if they just had the political will to do it. So, there’s a lot to be learned. There are a lot of lessons from the Third Reich that are positive lessons, not just the lessons that the mainstream media want us to learn, which is that white people should always feel guilty and that we better not think about trying to separate ourselves from Jews or basically try to take control of our own countries and our own destiny again, because if we do that, horrible things are going to inevitably happen to us. And that’s simply not true. That doesn’t follow.
[. . .] I think there’s a lot of room for historical revisionism about the Third Reich, about the causes of the Second World War, about the consequences of the Second World War. I think that putting that all in context it’s truly astonishing what you learn. So, I’m all for going back and looking at that with fresh eyes, because there’s definitely a lot of lessons to learn.
DF: How many people are in the White Nationalist movement, Greg?
GJ: I would say, within the United States, very loosely defined, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who would think of themselves as White Nationalists, more or less without apology. Now, those people include people who just log in to Stormfront and other online chat sites and read the material there but don’t do anything more — all the way up to people who are intensely engaged in it, are activists who are reading and researching a lot. And then there are just a few, a handful of people really, who are full-time White Nationalists, meaning that they’re devoting their lives to that. I can think of 5 or 6 people off the top of my head who are doing this full-time, and I am one of them. It’s a big movement, but it doesn’t have a lot of institutions that are well-funded and well-established yet.
DF: So, to say the least, you are no match for Jewish organizations right now.
GJ: Oh, absolutely not. When you look at the number of Jewish organizations and the hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars — if they really needed billions of dollars, they could make a few phone calls and have billions of dollars to play with overnight. These organizations are massively well-funded.
There’s a wonderful documentary called Defamation by Yoav Shamir. One of the things that Yoav Shamir does in Defamation is go to the Anti-Defamation League in New York City, and there’s this lavishly funded organization with big comfortable offices. They have 14 regional offices. I think they have an $80 million dollar per year budget, and of course we’re told frankly that’s not enough to fight anti-Semitism. [. . .] But the guy tries to find some actual anti-Semitic incidents that they’re fighting with their $80 million dollar a year annual budget, and so he goes to the secretary, and the secretary just runs off a list of things, and most of the things on the list consist of Jews calling in complaining of anti-Semitism because they’re not allowed to take off the Jewish holidays, which basically boils down to the fact that their employer—the school system, or a private company, whatever—is not going to give them special treatment for holidays. The very idea that there is this multi-million dollar a year organization that’s basically a snitch line to complain about things like that is pretty ludicrous.
Yet, with White Nationalist organizations, we have hundreds of millions of white people in the United States whose interests are being vitally threatened—not just not being able to take off special holidays—but vitally threatened. We don’t have a future in America if present trends continue, and it’s almost impossible to scrape together a few thousand dollars, much less $80 million dollars to fight that. It’s something that will change though. It’s not changing fast enough, but it will change.
DF: Now, the way it’s going to change is in a concept, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t know if you’ve coined it, but it’s what people call metapolitics. Laying the foundation to allow this change to happen, and you’re telling me, through your article that is, that Jews have done a great job in metapolitics, and really any community that wants to fight Jewish power has to start focusing on it.
GJ: Yeah. Metapolitics is not my coinage. Basically, it just means what comes before the political, what’s above the political, before the political, what creates the conditions of politics. People sometimes say that politics is the art of the possible, and metapolitics would deal with what people think is possible, for instance, what’s conceivable in the political realm. Metapolitics deals with people’s sense of what’s morally right in the political realm. People will not support a political agenda if they think it is not moral, if they think that it is not feasible, if it’s not possible. So, metapolitics really deals with the desirability and the feasibility of political alternatives.
Jews have played this game very well. They think way ahead. They’re chess players. They’re thinking many, many moves ahead. They think in terms of centuries and generations, unfolding their plans over very long periods of time.
Whites really don’t think that way. We used to have elites that ruled white countries that thought in terms of long gains in hundreds and thousands of years. Those are the old aristocracies of Europe, those are things like the Vatican and the Papacy. They could think long-term. Democracies don’t think that way, and just ordinary people don’t think that way, and so we’re really being outfoxed by the organized Jewish community.
They were very, very careful about laying the foundations decades ago, for instance. They realized that the idea that race is a biological concept was harmful to them. They wanted to push the idea that race is a social construct that’s malleable through social engineering. And so how did they do that? Well, they slowly prepared a putsch, basically, where they took over the academic teaching of anthropology in America and they ran the Darwinists out. Physical anthropology was shoved aside by cultural anthropology, and now in recent decades the cultural anthropologists—basically they’re Marxists, Boasians, whatever you want to call it—have actually been trying to drive the very idea of physical anthropology out of academia altogether.
So, they think in terms of decades and centuries and we don’t think at all, generally. So metapolitics is really our attempt to get into the long game strategy of laying the foundations for creating a new white political order.
Basically, we need some sort of racial sovereignty, that’s why we call it White Nationalism, if we’re going to prevent our race from simply disappearing over time.
DF: [. . .] White Nationalism, of course, is for whites, but this thing that is after whites, they just hate everybody. I think that’s a key point for everybody to remember. This Jewish element hates everybody. They will go after everybody, and whites just happen to be the one thing that stands in their way.
GJ: Well, they rule our countries very effectively now. They don’t really rule other countries effectively. They realized at a certain point that whites would be the people to latch onto, the break out people, when they saw us spilling out of Europe after we had defended Europe for thousands of years against Asians pounding at the gates, the Huns and the Mongols and people like that. After the Europeans broke out of Europe, beginning in the 15th century, and started conquering the globe, Jews hopped on our backs, and they traveled around the world. We pacified the world. We gave them access to huge areas of the world that they did not have previous access to. That was a very good deal.
Revilo Oliver has a really nice analogy. He said whites in the past were like the Texas longhorns. We were tough cattle. We were somewhat hard to tame, though, but we were the kind of animals you needed to tame the West. But now that the West is tamed, they want us gelded. They want us replaced with more tractable cows, and so they have tightened up cultural control and basically they have made us into a much more passive race, and they’re trying to blend us out of existence now, because they haven’t forgotten what happened in Germany and other countries in Europe in the 1930s.
DF: But the German thing is more myth than anything, but they believe in this myth and that’s the key point. Do you agree with that or do you disagree with that?
GJ: Well, what the Germans really did, that they will never be forgiven for, is they explicitly identified Jewish power as the main problem for whites controlling their own destinies, and they took steps to extricate themselves from Jewish power, and they also unplugged from the international banking system. Now, what happened during the war with concentration camps and cattle cars and things like that. That all came later. But the stuff that they will never be forgiven for is the stuff from 1933 to 1939, which set a pattern that other countries started to follow or wanted to follow and that Jews are deathly afraid of other countries following.
The thing is that the basic pattern is applicable everywhere in the world. Nationalism, unplugging from international finance, resisting globalization, promoting your own indigenous elites, things like that work for every people, and Jews, of course, feel threatened by any nationalism that is not their own. Why? Because they want to live among other nations. They don’t want to live on their own. They have their own country, but they don’t all live there.
DF: They want it there just in case.