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Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 25 
Greg Johnson, Matt Parrott, & Robert Stark  
Post-Election Round Table

Another document of human villainy: Topsy the elephant, electrocuted by Thomas Alva Edison

61:30 / 107 words

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Greg Johnson, Matt Parrott, and Robert Stark in a round table discussion of the aftermath and implications of the 2012 US Presidential Election. Topics include:

  • Why the Republican Party must perish
  • Why this election was not a referendum on race
  • Right-wing populism
  • Third Way Economics
  • The future of the Republican Party
  • The Golden Dawn in Greece
  • Vanguardism and mainstreaming
  • Secessionism
  • The transition from metapolitics to politics



  1. Sutton Who?
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    This is a great discussion. Greg, you channeled Jim Goad there for a sec about Paul Ryan, to amusing effect. How do we kill the Republican Party, Matt? Well listening to and promoting this podcast and Counter-Currents in general is a good start!

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      Thanks. Yes, I was channeling Goad there. Thanks for the footnote. He is always worth reading and frequently worth stealing from.

      • Roissy Hater
        Posted November 8, 2012 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

        In a way, this was a referendum on race. This election proved that whites will give away anything, lie down, and play dead while their country is looted as long as nice black man who talks smoothly is in control.

        It signals to me that whites are post-racial and only identify with immediate economic issues rather than cultural symbolism (Romney, at least more than McCain, symbolized the old, white America versus the new hip, modern, MultiKult-America).

        Sure, perhaps, whites were fooled once. But twice? In such large numbers?

        I think that you are incorrect that Regan Democrats or populist Buchananites even exist anymore. The country, due to social media and modern education, is much more economically and socially homogenized. The majority of white baby-boomers aren’t even interested in voting for the interests of their children or the country at-large. We have a population of white people who atomized, meaning that they will support whoever makes them feel good about themselves or helps them in the immediate, financially.

        I am glad a black face will be put on America’s decline, although Doris Goodwin will probably want Obama on Rushmore as well.

  2. JustAWhiteMom
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Excellent discussion gentlemen. Knowing that you guys are working for our race helps me keep going day to day. I wanted to offer a few thoughts.

    First, on the issue of explicit vs. implicit whiteness, I think explicitness is the way to go and I think Robert’s concern about the stigma is going to work itself out. Identity politics and racial block voting by Hispanics, blacks and Asians will make it impossible to deny a racial identity to whites going forward. Matthew Heimbach is playing this beautifully with the WSU. Unless other races suddenly turn color-blind universalist and give up their racial identity, our enemies’ double standards will become increasingly indefensible as time goes on. Only the stupidest whites will fail to catch on to what is happening. Moreover, as Robert pointed out, whites will have more and more contact with non-whites, and the truth will become an irresistible forbidden fruit to young people who can see through the PC lies.

    Second, I believe conservative Christians can be turned against the Jews. Christians are angry about the collapse of traditional morality and the de-Christianization of America. It is very easy to prove the Jews are at fault for this. I mean, what would happen if someone just printed off copies of Al Goldstein’s Triple Exthnics and stuck it in their pastor’s or elder’s mailbox at church one Sunday? Just the other day that creep Lee Speigel came right out and admitted that Jews wrecked the family after taking power from our Christian elites after WWII.

    This argument is especially timely right now because of the Obama win. Jews have repeatedly taken credit for the “demographic change” in this country, which is directly responsible for the election of Obama and likely appointment of militant secularist SC Justices.

    Despite their subservience, I believe the Jews hate and fear evangelical Christians exactly because they know they would turn against them if they ever watched David Duke’s videos documenting their smut-peddling and stated desire to destroy Western culture. Once exposed as liars, Christians may wise up to the Jews’ hypocrisy on multiculturalism as well.

    • rhondda
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      As much as I would like what you say to be true, there is no evidence that Evangelical Christians will turn against the Jews. Absolutely none as they wish to have the second coming come soon and the establishment of Jerusalem is important for that. Why do you think Romney called Jerusalem the capital of Israel? Why do you think he berated Obama for not going to Israel? He was playing that card. That is how cynical he is. It is not just the Jews, it is also those who play with them. Recall Sarah Palin’s beliefs. Playing Peter against Paul is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

    • kilroy
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

      One need not really choose between implicit and explicit whiteness. It can be seen as a spectrum, a sliding scale or even an instrument to be played on. Nationalist politics have always been more dependant on symbols, rituals and other subliminal methods. In other words non explicit. These things must call to something deep within every european, to a deep sense of destiny, etc… Therefore, related art forms should be at the centre of all efforts at organization. At the same time, straight talk is a necessary backup.
      Looking at youtube videos of far right rallies in europe, they seem to range from the sublime to the dismally vulgar. My favourite ones are from the germans who wear spooky hoods and masks and have torchlight flash mobs. It looks like a really fun time; halloween all over again. At the same time it draws on ancient european festival traditions. At the same time they held banners reading; liberalism brings the death of our people (volkstod). (A variation on whitaker’s mantra?) What is required is an endless unpredictability and an endless creativity.
      To my way of thinking, the greatest artist/propagandist of the right has been the guy from death in june. He has turned symbols, evasion and plausible deniability into a strange kind of poetry or art form. All with a subtle sense of humour. The aforesaid flashmobs certainly seem to owe a lot to his fashion aesthetic.

  3. rhondda
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Than you for this excellent discussion. You are so right about the working class having to chose between class and race and no one really representing them. That is exactly what the communists were able to use and made it your kin or your country and whatever you chose was used against you. Sort of heads I win and tails I win. Ha Ha sucker. It’s a false dichotomy.

  4. UFASP
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    I grew up in a household that was pretty “middle of the road” conservative. I went to a Catholic school (through fifth grade) but my parents weren’t Jesus freaks. My father, in his younger days, was a cynical third party voter (who leaned more Republican) and my mother was a Reagan voter during the 1980s. I recall my father telling me that his father had supported George Wallace, who was a third party racial populist.

    When Clinton took office, my parents become pretty hardcore Democrats precisely because of what you all were saying about certain white people perceiving the Republicans to be plutocrats. My father CANNOT STAND Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and that crowd. My father is a small business owner and his business THRIVED during the Clinton years after nearly going broke under George H.W. Bush so “free market” dogma to him is pure snake oil. If a trendy liberal from San Francisco spoke to my father, they’d find themselves nodding their heads and saying “yeah, right on!” (thinking that my father was “hip”) because my father is “pro-environment,” “anti-plutocrat,” and does think that conservatives hide behind social issues (abortion, gay marriage) to pull the wool over well-meaning white people who are all too oafish. What they wouldn’t realize is that his “liberal” views are based on a completely different perspective. And there are TONS of these white men out there, I think. Mostly in the mid-West, I think, where unions have some sway. The problem is that none of these men think about race in the manner that we do but they can be appealed to and perhaps we should figure out ways to target these blue-collar whites who bleed for their union rather than their race. One of the reasons Counter-Currents is so fresh to me is that it doesn’t bring the stench of “free market” ideology to white nationalism. That being said, some libertarians do have important things to say about the nature of economics. It’s a tough balancing act for a meta-political movement.

    I had to laugh when Dr. Johnson said that his father would have held his nose and pulled the lever for the donkey despite having the views of someone like a National Socialist. It’s quite a dichotomy within one man that the media “pundits” teach us not to expect. But that basically describes my father to a “T.” It really is an error for white nationalists to link racial politics to the “free market” or “conservativism” like some pro-white sites are a bit prone to doing. My mother, I’m afraid, has simply become more liberal due to media and cultural influence. The shows on television that target women really alienate our own women from us in ways I don’t think we can imagine even though we all know it’s a problem on some level.

    And I do find myself agreeing with Mr. Stark about America just not being ripe for radical politics. Because “white” is not seen as legitimate and being “Greek” or “Italian” or even “European” is, we have a burden that we have to overcome though meta-politics. And that burden is showing other white people that we are not crazy, but “normal” and rational people who see the train heading towards a cliff.

  5. Lew
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Greg Johnson is right. Powerful people must be working to destroy the GOP on purpose. Nothing else makes sense. While it’s fun to call them the Stupid Party, no one could possibly be that stupid. 

    The parties behind the GOP rode the gravy train off white votes for 40 years, while doing nothing to help white interests. Indeed, they actively promoted an anti-white agenda. Now that the “White exploitation” strategy can’t win a national election in this country, destroying the GOP on purpose makes perfect sense. The capitalist faction behind the GOP probably doesn’t care what becomes of the GOP; they don’t need a prosperous American middle class to make money in the 21st century. They also have the Democrats looking out for them.

    Jews, on the other hand, do care. As someone in another comment thread observed (astutely), we’re dealing with Trotskyites here. They know the history, understand what’s at stake, and know how to play the long game. They won’t let the end game unfold as it did in the Soviet Union. They pushed Bolshevism, used Bolshevism, but ultimately lost control of Bolshevism. Before they could do anything about it, universalist Bolshevism began evolving into a type of National Bolshevism, a vehicle not suited to serving Jewish over Russian interests. 

    I think the probability Jews will make this mistake again is 0.0%. This, of course, is speculation on my part, but I think it fits the facts. They won’t let the Republican party evolve into National Republicanism. 

  6. Lew
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Re: the million dollar income cap, I don’t think that’s a good idea. More important is to limit how people make it not how much they make. We don’t believe in equality. It follows from our worldview that the smartest, hardest working, most creative people in the economic arena will always make more on a level playing field (no one holding a thumb on the scale to help the rich or anyone else). As long as the person is getting rich doing something productive that doesn’t undermine society, it’s not clear how the amount a person makes harms anyone. I think the way to go is to ban usury and all forms of financial speculation for profit. This would let people who care to pursue it get rich through a better business model but not by collecting interest or selling re-packaged derivatives.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

      Yes and no. I would favor no caps on people who make new inventions, new art works, etc. But people who just “make money” need to be kept on a leash. Money always means power, thus to limit the power of the few, one must put limits on their wealth. Besides, they need to spend more time with their families. Or, what is more likely, working on their golf swing.

      • UFASP
        Posted November 8, 2012 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

        I may be going off the beaten path here, but what about intellectual property? I’ve always felt that a large amount of the hype of about “intellectual property” was simply to serve the interests of the rich rather than the “greater good.” The most obvious example is when it comes to medical treatments. The justification is that the companies who develop such have to make back the money from R&D, but much of that R&D is subsidized, anyways.

  7. Lew
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Re: right-wing populism

    David Frum made an interesting remark on this subject. 

    He had this to say about the Bilderberg conference which he claims he attended.

    I don’t mean that Bilderberg meetings are boring. They aren’t, not especially. They are precisely as interesting as any other conference that focuses on global economic data, the urgency of European integration, and the ever-rising menace of populist conservatism in the United States.

    If this is true, it would mean the potential white menace (characterized here as populist conservatism) actually gets discussed by these elite corporate, NWO, globalist, Bilderberg types.

  8. white history day
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    More proof of why Greg Johnson is a must-listen to, must-read WN leader.

    Your skills, talents, and deep thinking are welcomed and much needed.

    • Posted November 8, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Permalink


    • GT
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

      Yes indeed. Johnson, Hood, and Parrott’s recent articles have encouraged me to take a second look at this website.

  9. excalibur
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    All three discussants have the interest of the White people.I am especially impressed by the clarity and incisiveness of Greg Johnson’s points.The racial issue the survival of the white race is the core of the WN. The economic issues are secondary.The capitalism with the principle of exploitation or financial manipulations is incompatible with the idea of saving the race.When we feel that we are driven to the abyss of extinction I can not imagine anyone with white identity would want to see his kinsmen impoverished.I believe that they who make even one tenth of 1 million would voluntarily give to his people.I hope that many of the elite and super-rich will be awaken and come to WN movements.
    I believe that US and probably Canada are in a more favourable condition to awake the white consciousness than any country of Europe,even Greece or Italy.Here not an ethnic-national solidarity but racial solidarity is being forged.

  10. GT
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    If you are serious about incorporating distributist principles within an EGI-based social nationalism, then I recommend the following resources for getting up to speed:


    The Distributive Review

    Distributivism and Catholic Social Teaching


    Economics for Helen – Hilaire Belloc

    Toward a Truly Free Market: A Distributist Perspective on the Role of Government, Taxes, Health Care, Deficits, and More (Culture of Enterprise) – John C. Médaille

    Third Ways: How Bulgarian Greens, Swedish Housewives, and Beer-Swilling Englishmen Created Family-Centered Economies – And Why They Disappeared – Allan C. Carlson

    The Vocation of Business: Social Justice in the Marketplace – John C. Médaille

    The Third Way: Foundations of Distributism As Contained in the Writings of Pope Blessed Leo XIII and Gilbert K. Chesterton (Volume 1)

  11. guiscard
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    On the ‘stigma’ issue, I think some are interested in throwing out a few carrots to non-whites as opposed to some inhuman indifference. That is to say, whilst your party/sphere is explicitly White-Euro, there will be benefits for Latinos, Blacks, Liberals in that they will get their own ‘self-determining ethno-states where they make the rules. This may not lessen enemy attacks but it will gain alliances from Black/Brown (would be King) Supremacists while lessening any potential inner feelings of guilt.

    Just another version of the Axis powers where separate entities fight for their sphere.

    • Jaego
      Posted November 8, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

      Yes, because legally I assume we will have to let non Whites join any party we create. So we might was well plan for this unpleasant reality right now. Including how to keep them ocupied, out of high office, away from secret meetings etc.

      • guiscard
        Posted November 9, 2012 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

        Well that is certainly a major benefit, though these people would not be interested in secret meetings, infiltration etc like a certain other group. They would simply be taking cues from CC and using what works to create their own principalities…at the same time, wedging the standard marxist attacks.

        But what’s more important, is asking why 200million and twice as many worldwide are so reluctant to approach these movements. Now ‘white guilt’ has been exploited of course but there’s something more. From Alexander the Great up till today, Whites have carried a ‘Light of the World’ philosophy in all their great accomplishments/movements/interactions. There really is no greater motivating force; hell even the Tribe maintains this in their own twisted way. So if CC WN can sell the concept of a model state that sets an example to follow (for us and other separate identities), they can attract more adherents other then simply waiting for the next disenfranchised person who is more filled with anger/bitterness than anything else.

        Maybe I’m wrong but it’s hard not to see a natural providence at work in History. The fact that over 2500 years, Whites have become masters of the world with a ‘Good Shepherd’ mentality… Imagine any other group gaining a technological break/advantage and what nightmare we’d have. Even today, USA democracy is still the best of a bad bunch. Envisage something better and it will surely prosper.

  12. Gerald Martin
    Posted November 9, 2012 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    Greg & Matt: please read UFASP’s first post. Then re-read it. That’s the soul of white America. Then read the 2nd paragraph of Lew’s first post – absolutely true. And to rhondda: you are right about the evangelicals. My cousin was “born again” many years ago. Before that, she was a National Merit Scholar, Phi Beta Kappa, graduate of Berkeley and Columbia, interested in everything. Now, she reads only the Bible, or fundamentalist commentaries on it. She told me she “wants to be a Jew.” Not religiously. Ethnically – a Christian Jew. I asked her if she believes God commands us to support Israel, and if we don’t we will be destroyed. She said, “That’s what the Bible says.” I told her she acted like she had had a lobotamy. She doesn’t talk to me much, anymore.

    Good talk, guys. Let’s hear more from you.

    • JustAWhiteMom
      Posted November 9, 2012 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      It doesn’t sound like you tried very hard to persuade her.

  13. Posted November 9, 2012 at 8:07 am | Permalink


    You comments around 36:30 are reminiscent of Jef’s description of the way James Bond gets all the chicks, in “The Importance of James Bond” yesterday.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 9, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

      As Hitler said, following Gustave Le Bon: “The masses are feminine.” So are the churches. So are the chicks.

  14. Posted November 9, 2012 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Greg, I don’t think you really addressed Stark’s [?] question about the government would never stop paying its employees because they’d just print the money. It’s a pretty common meme, usually associated with Keynesians like Krugman but also used by Greenspan who “explained” that the US credit rating must always be AAA because we can never default, since we can just print the money. And the answer is relevant to our concerns.

    The response should start by asking, well, why then does the government collect taxes and sell debt? Why not just finance the whole thing by printing right from the start?
    Why indeed. Taxes, especially income taxes, are means of controlling the working man. And by selling debt, they create legal obligations on future governments, thus controlling them as well.

    The government doesn’t really ‘print” money, after all; the Federal Reserve does, which it uses to buy Federal bonds, which the government then uses to pay employees, buy bombs, etc., thus laundering what would otherwise, if you or I did it, be counterfeiting.
    But by doing so, rather than ‘just printing’ itself, it becomes ‘indebted’ to the Fed; and China and Japan as well. Those ‘debts’ must be paid off with real money from the productive sector; thus, taxes.

    The ‘conservative’ alternative, the gold standard, is just the same, another pseudo-opposition. Ask: who owns the gold? The banks. No way out.

    Except: What Hitler knew – and Lincoln too! Just print the money for domestic purposes, repudiate the foreign debts and banks be damned. Germany had to use barter for foreign trade, but otherwise the economy thrived, becoming the biggest in Europe while the US was still flailing away in the depths of the Depression.

    It had to be stopped! Just as the Civil War was about money, not morality, WWII was promoted by the proto-neo-cons to stop Germany from prospering outside the banker cartel, not to “save the Jews”. Well, actually, in the sense of “save the bankers.” Just as Cuba, etc. must be eternally punished lest they set an example. And notice how the targets today – Iraq, Iran, Libya, Venezula, etc. – have one thing in common: no Central Bank; and how the first thing done after ‘democratizing” is: set up a Central Bank?

    This is the kind of pro-White, anti-banker policy that could work both economically and politically.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 9, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

      I did not want to get sidetracked with this topic, so I breezed right by. But I agree with your view. The government actually doesn’t print money. It borrows new money from banks and foreign governments — money which the government has to authorize to create — and yet does not enjoy interest free. It is the greatest swindle in history: the state borrowing at interest the money it could create interest free. Why does it do it? Because that sovereign power is reserved to the banks!

    • Jaego
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      These folks live by comparison: what good is it be rich if other people aren’t wretched? Where’s the fun in that? How can they be free if other people are free too? How can they enjoy themselves unless the goyim and “vandals” (Skull & Bones) are in misery?

      Their Darkness is simply beyond belief.

    • CosmicSurfer
      Posted November 13, 2012 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      Thanks for clarifying.

  15. brierrabbit3030
    Posted November 9, 2012 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    This was one of the most fascinating discussions, I’ve ever heard. I listened to it 3 times in one day while at work. I agree with you that the Right needs to start paying attention to something more than big C Capitalism. I’m more distributist myself. I also think that the Republicans behavior, via the environment, is a BIG put off to many young people. Also, you could put the Environmental movement in a awkward bind, if it was continually pointed out that it does no good to try and preserve the environment, if you are continually importing millions of new people every decade.
    Any improvements, just gets washed away in the deluge. Great stuff, your podcast makes listning to most shows, like Limbaugh and Hannity, seem, ignorant, and immature in comparison.

  16. Carl
    Posted November 11, 2012 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    I shudder every time I hear about succession. When W won re-election in 2004 liberals in the North wanted to bolt from “Jesusland” and join Canada. Now conservative whites want to do the same thing in a different direction.

    The problem with any succession movement boils down to Edward Longshank’s Law. King Edward I “Longshanks” expelled Jews from England in 1290. In the next centuries before Cromwell let the Jews back in England had a cultural flowering in all areas. In literature, Chaucer and Shakespeare, in theology, John Wycliffe, in science, William of Occam and these men are merely one of many. Still today our ideas and culture are shaped by this critical period. Most importantly, the English got control over their own financial system. Despite this accomplishment, Edward I called himself “The Hammer of the Scots.”

    In other words, Edward Longshank’s Law should read no matter what a white leader does to further his people’s interests by defeating non-whites, or Jews, he will ultimately spend more time provoking a wasteful conflict with whites as racially and culturally close to him as possible barring some system of unity and control.

    If by succession and breaking up “America” you mean ditching Puerto Rico and the “America” that is the defense of South Korea and support for Israel and Cuban refugees I understand but any further break up is a fool’s policy. Without Union in North America there could be another Antietam, in Europe without NATO another Verdun.

    Our enemies would love to see such bloodbaths. Can you imagine their glee if Nordic Northeastern liberals were killing or being killed by Nordic Southern Evangelical Protestants over the burning question of whether gays have sex while “married” or in a bath house on the down low?

    Ultimately, America is our system, and it is under foreign usurpation.

    We need to start thinking more along the lines of Reconquest Spain. Keep Aragon and Castile united and get back our lands and institutions. We are now a long fight-you won’t live to see the end.

  17. CosmicSurfer
    Posted November 13, 2012 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Secession: You really have to start this process in earnest. Sure, you’re going to fall down a few times on the way but it’s the only solution. Other paths will only lead to greater fragmentation and confusion, and will ultimately lead away from where we want to be.

    One interesting statistic I heard was how young white college females (a large % of the overall white female demographic in that age range) voted overwhelmingly for Obama whilst the equivalent white male demographic voted for Romney. It should be self-evident why targeting the female demographic is a primary concern in order to miscegenate whites. This advert clearly illustrates how this process is happening:

  18. Posted November 16, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    The caption under the image of Topsy creates a wrong impression. This poor female elephant had been mistreated and killed three men during her life. After the third death the elephant was going to be destroyed.

    There is no villainy on Edison’s part for arranging electrocution as the means. Electrocution, if done properly, is the most painless way to die. It’s like flipping a switch that turns off consciousness. Topsy reportedly died without making a sound.

    I don’t understand what Greg Johnson thinks he accomplishes by going out of his way for moral reproaches like this.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 16, 2012 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

      Talk about going out of one’s way . . .

      Hadding, there’s something about you that’s not quite right.

    • Stronza
      Posted November 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

      They should have publicly electrocuted the people who abused the elephant. I’d have made sure to have a front row seat.

  19. Posted November 16, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    That old story about how to boil a frog is not true either, btw, although it’s been around at least 50 years. In reality if you put a frog in water and start heating it, at some point the frog will become uncomfortable and jump out.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 16, 2012 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

      How terribly clever!

      Next you’ll be telling us that scorpions really don’t have conversations with frogs.

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